Viktor Bout Prefers Thai Prison

[falangjim]

Who cares what Veeeektor wants? Let his arse rot in solitary.

[harryfrompattaya]

" Victor Bout has been in solitary confinement for over a year."

Anyone guess why the prison would decide to do that? Seems a bit excessive.

He will be killed if put with rest You have never been Prison I guess what a boring life you must of had.

Russian arms dealers not to well like in prisons in America

Edited February 9, 2012 by harryfrompattaya

[Reasonableman]

" Victor Bout has been in solitary confinement for over a year."

Anyone guess why the prison would decide to do that? Seems a bit excessive.

He will be killed if put with rest You have never been Prison I guess what a boring life you must of had.

Russian arms dealers not to well like in prisons in America

Everyone should serve some time in prison, at least once in their lifetime, to savor the full panoply of un-boring experiences life has to offer.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Reasonableman

[harryfrompattaya]

Here is no simple answers. How do you know that he is bad guy? From media? Do you really trust media? I believe that in fact nobody care what he's doing, it's only abou business, about competition.

Everything is about Competition With remarks like yours You have proved you are in competition with other fools to be the head fool.

[soylentgreen]

Here is no simple answers. How do you know that he is bad guy? From media? Do you really trust media? I believe that in fact nobody care what he's doing, it's only abou business, about competition.

Another concpiracy theorist ???? where do you pop up from ?

Sounds like a valid opinion.

It is about competition, as the CIA usually monopolises the market in illegal transfer of SAM missiles to insurgent groups, and I don't trust the media, do you?

What is a concpiracy theorist?

Where did YOU pop up from?

[WunMoneyBunny]

It looks unlikely he is real nice guy. It appears to be about knowingly selling surface-to-air missiles to insurgents so that they can shoot down helicopters. I guess the country whose nationals are in those helicopters might be justifiably unimpressed. There may indeed be a lot more to the story, but who knows all the details? Not me.

You know that makes it all the more odd....

Considering his captor did the exact same thing...when it suited *their* purposes.

Yet when they sold arms to Terrorist they called them freedom fighters. Later when they call them terrorist they go back & try to retrieve said weapons one bullet at a time.

It all sucks for sure....the weapons trade in general...Yet cannot help but note a double standard

No disagreement here. Except perhaps for the overuse of the "double standard" metaphor, which is better suited to another thread. Perhaps hypocrisy, machiavellianism, pragmatism, real-politik... ?

Agree, but what's wrong with "double standard"? Surely it just fits in with all of the other potentially appropriate metaphors that you've used, except perhaps "real-politik". I'm unsure of its meaning, but suspect it is probably covered by the already quoted "pragmatism"..

[soylentgreen]

" Victor Bout has been in solitary confinement for over a year."

Anyone guess why the prison would decide to do that? Seems a bit excessive.

It's commonly done in terrorism cases and it's a good punishment. People like him don't fear the death penalty but they do fear solitary confinement in Supermax.

I would like to see you or some close members of your family locked up in a Supermax as a result of your bizarre comments on this forum

Then, when you emerged from the nightmare of solitary confinemnet, maybe you would become a terrorist and change your arrogant little tune.

[spidermike007]

" Victor Bout has been in solitary confinement for over a year."

Anyone guess why the prison would decide to do that? Seems a bit excessive.

Perhaps he'd prefer a Japanese or Korean prison; I know someone who spent 7 years in a Japanese prison in complete solitary for 7 years.

I agree about missing what he can buy in a Thai prison.

If you can't do the time; don't do the crime.

His only crime was acting as the primary broker for the CIA, for nearly 20 years, supplying them with weapons for overseas adventures. The US government is a very fickle, and unreliable friend.

[Reasonableman]

'Realpolitik' was coined by Ludwig von Rochau, a German writer and politician in the 19th century. His 1853 book Grundsätze der Realpolitik angewendet auf die staatlichen Zustände Deutschlands describes the meaning of the term: The political organism of human society, the state, originates and subsists in virtue of a natural law which man, with or without consciousness or will, carries out… The imperative of Nature on which the existence of states depends is fulfilled in the historically given state through the antagonism of various forces; its condition, extent and achievements varying infinitely according to space and time. The study of the forces that shape, sustain and transform the state is the starting-point of all political knowledge. The first step towards understanding leads to the conclusion that the law of the strong over political life performs a function similar to the law of gravity over the material world.

The policy of Realpolitik was formally introduced to the Richard Nixon White House by Henry Kissinger. In this context, the policy meant dealing with other powerful nations in a practical manner rather than on the basis of political doctrine or ethics—for instance, Nixon's diplomacy with the People's Republic of China, despite the U.S.'s opposition to communism and the previous doctrine of containment. Another example is Kissinger's use of shuttle diplomacy after the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, where he persuaded the Israelis to withdraw partially from the Sinai in deference to the political realities created by the oil crisis.

Realpolitik is distinct from ideological politics in that it is not dictated by a fixed set of rules, but instead tends to be goal-oriented, limited only by practical exigencies. Since realpolitik is ordered toward the most practical means of securing national interests, it can often entail compromising on ideological principles. For example, During the Cold War, the U.S. often supported authoritarian regimes that were human rights violators, in order to theoretically secure the greater national interest of regional stability. Detractors would characterize this attitude as amoral, while supporters would contend that they are merely operating within limits defined by practical reality.Most recently, former ambassador Dennis Ross advocated this approach to foreign policy in his 2007 book Statecraft: And How to Restore America's Standing in the World.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Reasonableman

[wxyz]

"Viktor Bout Prefers Thai Prison"

Of course he does, he was probably making more dealing drugs there than dealing arms on the outside.

Edited February 9, 2012 by wxyz

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[WunMoneyBunny]

Henry Kissinger. .... the policy meant dealing with other powerful nations in

a practical manner

Realpolitik is .... limited only by practical exigencies. Since realpolitik is

ordered toward the most practical means .... operating within limits defined

by practical reality.

Thanks Reasonableman. I appreciate your efforts in describing "realpolitik".

But, once all the political rhetoric is removed, as I have done to your quote

above, then one is left with the definition of "pragmatic". Please don't get

me wrong. By no means am I accusing you of generating that rhetoric.

That has been done previously by politicians & their commentators.

[bendejo]

From what I hear about US prisons (as an outsider, thankfully) it is much safer in solitary.

[wxyz]

the prisons in the USA are barbaric and not much different than they were 150 years ago. Really says something about how unenlightened America is compared to Europe. Further, anyone accused and tried in the USA is guilty until proven innocent. Only morons unfamiliar with the system are allowed on the jury so the prosecutors and politically dependent judges can convict most anyone whether they are guilty or not. And that's dam_n right the US Government doesn't want any competition in the arms or terrorism industry. We're number 1 in the most disgusting.

Ya, so much better here where you can just pay a bribe and walk away from any crime you commit.

Edited February 9, 2012 by wxyz

[wxyz]

From what I hear about US prisons (as an outsider, thankfully) it is much safer in solitary.

For pedophiles it is.

Edited February 9, 2012 by wxyz

[Reasonableman]

Henry Kissinger. .... the policy meant dealing with other powerful nations in

a practical manner

Realpolitik is .... limited only by practical exigencies. Since realpolitik is

ordered toward the most practical means .... operating within limits defined

by practical reality.

Thanks Reasonableman. I appreciate your efforts in describing "realpolitik".

But, once all the political rhetoric is removed, as I have done to your quote

above, then one is left with the definition of "pragmatic". Please don't get

me wrong. By no means am I accusing you of generating that rhetoric.

That has been done previously by politicians & their commentators.

The English language has one of the richest vocabularies in the world, if not the richest, so why not use some of it? It is often more elegant/esthetically pleasing if we can use the right word in the right place at the right time. I doubt that the wide variety of words, drawn from a host of other languages and cultures over time evolved to make meaning less clear. That's not rhetoric, that's English, and that's communication. Enjoy!

[Chris Lawrence]

I think it's not that a Thai goal is better, but why would you want to be in a US goal as a convicted terrorist?

Whatever country you are in, money talks. In OZ, one convicted gentleman, converted his whole wing to being drug free. The Gaurds apparently had fillet steak delivered to them on Fridays for weekend BBQ's. This gentleman, a career criminal, commanded respect and had money.

Another gentleman, arrested and placed in remand at the Bay, was asked to supply another gentleman in the yard the substance he was manufacturing at home. He couldn't due to it being locked away as evidence; and was summarily reminded a few days latter of his duty to provide by a solid workout as the other gentleman's punching bag.

It all depends what you're in for and what you can afford as to where you want to be.

[Briggsy]

Viktor Bout's arms-running operations were a Kremlin approved and assisted operation yet very unofficial arm of the Russian government. There is no way he could have achieved what he did without the Russian military behind him. The US' stretching the envelope of what its laws permit it to do in order to stop his operation and lock him up was the American reply.

Since the arms running is a threat to American global influence, Bout gets the highest security treatment, not because he himself is dangerous, but because of who is backing him and what he is involved in and represents.

[TechnikaIII]

"Bout’s lawyer Albert Dayan in a letter to the court that his client who is denied the right to walk in the prison yard, has to spend “days and nights” in his solitary cell and is denied “basic, God-given rights, like fresh air and sun.”

.. anyone by now should know that the US Government is above "God" on such matters. Unless you have been on another planet, you will have seen how the inmates at Guantanamo Bay detention camp have been handled. Viktor Bout could just as easily been sent there. How or wherever, to keep a prisoner in isolation should not be so difficult and still allow him a walk in the yard.

The reason for isolation would of course include protection from assassination by Russian agents. Once dead, he can't talk. With the money and resources of his alleged backers, I imagine the US authorities are also attempting to eliminate all potential weak points. But still .. a bit of fresh air and sunlight?

[soylentgreen]

Viktor Bout's arms-running operations were a Kremlin approved and assisted operation yet very unofficial arm of the Russian government. There is no way he could have achieved what he did without the Russian military behind him. The US' stretching the envelope of what its laws permit it to do in order to stop his operation and lock him up was the American reply.

Since the arms running is a threat to American global influence, Bout gets the highest security treatment, not because he himself is dangerous, but because of who is backing him and what he is involved in and represents.

Yes, you can find out more at his personal website:

http://www.victorbout.com/NewsandUpdates.htm

http://www.victorbout.com/Documents.htm

[ma91c1an]

The primary reason to keep Bout incommunicado is to ease the burden on US law enforcement and US intelligence in monitoring his contacts. It is expensive and intensive in terms of time, logistics and assets to monitor the communications and interactions of someone like Bout with his lawyers, family, and other visitors.

He merits such scrutiny. US assets are already stretched thin. Better to keep him in isolation than to permit him to interact with anyone.

[soylentgreen]

This must be a warning to the Thai authorities to toughen up the prison system here. For Thais who grew up in slums or in a poor village, prison is seen as a cushy luxury and a sort of fun holiday home a bit like a working class club med!

Have you ever visted a Thai prison?

[soylentgreen]

" Victor Bout has been in solitary confinement for over a year."

Anyone guess why the prison would decide to do that? Seems a bit excessive.

Perhaps he'd prefer a Japanese or Korean prison; I know someone who spent 7 years in a Japanese prison in complete solitary for 7 years.

I agree about missing what he can buy in a Thai prison.

If you can't do the time; don't do the crime.

His only crime was acting as the primary broker for the CIA, for nearly 20 years, supplying them with weapons for overseas adventures. The US government is a very fickle, and unreliable friend.

What do you mean? i don't understand..what evidence do you have for your outrageous claims?

[soylentgreen]

the prisons in the USA are barbaric and not much different than they were 150 years ago. Really says something about how unenlightened America is compared to Europe. Further, anyone accused and tried in the USA is guilty until proven innocent. Only morons unfamiliar with the system are allowed on the jury so the prosecutors and politically dependent judges can convict most anyone whether they are guilty or not. And that's dam_n right the US Government doesn't want any competition in the arms or terrorism industry. We're number 1 in the most disgusting.

What do you mean by this? Are you accusing good ole Uncle Sam of selling arms?

[wxyz]

It looks unlikely he is real nice guy. It appears to be about knowingly selling surface-to-air missiles to insurgents so that they can shoot down helicopters. I guess the country whose nationals are in those helicopters might be justifiably unimpressed. There may indeed be a lot more to the story, but who knows all the details? Not me.

You know that makes it all the more odd....

Considering his captor did the exact same thing...when it suited *their* purposes.

Yet when they sold arms to Terrorist they called them freedom fighters. Later when they call them terrorist they go back & try to retrieve said weapons one bullet at a time.

It all sucks for sure....the weapons trade in general...Yet cannot help but note a double standard

No disagreement here. Except perhaps for the overuse of the "double standard" metaphor, which is better suited to another thread. Perhaps hypocrisy, machiavellianism, pragmatism, real-politik... ?

Agree, but what's wrong with "double standard"? Surely it just fits in with all of the other potentially appropriate metaphors that you've used, except perhaps "real-politik". I'm unsure of its meaning, but suspect it is probably covered by the already quoted "pragmatism"..

It's not a double standard nor hypocrisy, when it is FALSE.

Edited February 9, 2012 by wxyz

[cdnvic]

Off-topic conspiracy theories and replies deleted. Further such posts will be deleted without comment..

[cdnvic]

Another deletion. Any more personal attacks or off topic conspiracies will result in suspension(s).

[soylentgreen]

He is an arm dealer. For his crime, he deserve to be hang actually.

So all arms dealers deserve to die? Including governments? Is that what you are suggesting?

[NovaBlue05]

"Russian businessman Victor Bout’s..........."

I thought he was a gun runner....

Based on the pictures of him entering the Thai prison system and those of him leaving with US authorities about 40 lbs lighter, my guess is that he just misses that healthy, lowfat diet he was getting in Bangkok

[soylentgreen]

From what I hear about US prisons (as an outsider, thankfully) it is much safer in solitary.

Yes, you are right:

Isolation today means 23 hours a day in a concrete cell no bigger than a bathroom. One hour a day is spent alone in a concrete exercise pen, about the length and width of two cars.

Most inmates held in solitary have no contact with the outside world other than the U.S. mail. Depending on the state, inmates have limited access to visitors. Most can't watch television, call anyone on the phone or even touch another person while in the units.

Some inmates have been incarcerated in these conditions in U.S. prisons for more than 20 years. Most have been there for more than five years.

Conservative estimates say that there are more than 25,000 inmates serving their sentences this way in 40 states. The inmates aren't in these facilities because of what they did on the outside. No one is sentenced by a court or a judge to serve their time in isolation, except in the rare occurrence of terrorists who could pose a threat to national security.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5582144