Populist Spending Will Not Fix Our Education Woes: Thai Opinion

[kurnell]

I've just put my daughter into an international school after 3 years in a renowned Thai nursery/early years school. The difference is astounding. To be blunt she learnt nothing at the Thai school and has learnt more in 1 month at ther new school than 3 years in the Thai school. The Thai system creates lazy dummies and sadly always will.

I totally agree with you.

But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).

The cost of international schools is sadly far beyond the reach of many expats, too, despite their mythical prosperity compared with the average Thai worker. Throwing a few million baht at the Thai education system (the "tablet panacea") as a one-off "fix" achieves nothing long-term. Someone's enthusiasm that ran away like a freight train going nowhere useful. It is about long-term commitment, not crackdowns and quick fixes that fix nothing.

If that is the case, then I'd suggest that expats return to their own country to give their children the best possible chance.

Sigh. Another "if ya don't like it go home" comment. How original. How well thought out.

[anterian]

The aim of teaching has changed, it used to be to teach knowledge and how to use it, now it is how to source knowledge and apply it.

Let me explain. Many years ago when I sat "A" level physics I could confidently say that I knew most of all that was known about physics. This is now impossible, since then we have had vast advances in knowledge, in electronics, sub atomics, cosmology, the same applies to the life sciences and chemistry. It is impossible to fit all this information into a curriculum. Education now should concentrate on the basic tools, namely information gathering and processing, learning how to think and question.

I would say you are almost right. Fundermentals still need to be taught: reading, writing, basic mathermatics, problem solving, inference, budgeting and financial management, etc.

Many fundermentals i was taught at school i still use day to day. Example: mental arithmatic. However i find many Thais poor at basic maths.

Yes, I took the fundamentals for granted, leave out thew word "namely" in my first comment.

[Reasonableman]

What a boringly predictable inane and racist comment. Many have homes, families, businesses, jobs, and lives here, and have done for many years. What they don't have is citizenship or a vote. Expats are not all short-term beer guzzling dorks on the run from the law. TV gives them somewhere to vent their frustrations. If you find that distressing or distasteful, maybe you shouldn't read these posts.

I've just put my daughter into an international school after 3 years in a renowned Thai nursery/early years school. The difference is astounding. To be blunt she learnt nothing at the Thai school and has learnt more in 1 month at ther new school than 3 years in the Thai school. The Thai system creates lazy dummies and sadly always will.

I totally agree with you.

But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).

The cost of international schools is sadly far beyond the reach of many expats, too, despite their mythical prosperity compared with the average Thai worker. Throwing a few million baht at the Thai education system (the "tablet panacea") as a one-off "fix" achieves nothing long-term. Someone's enthusiasm that ran away like a freight train going nowhere useful. It is about long-term commitment, not crackdowns and quick fixes that fix nothing.

If that is the case, then I'd suggest that expats return to their own country to give their children the best possible chance.

[473geo]

Without getting into the nitty-gritty of what this Economist says, apparently he is 'prominent" (whatever that means), there is also a non-educational theme to his opinions......... that being anti-Politician.

He lays all Thai educational travails at the feet of Politicians, when perhaps it may be better placed at the feet of Educational Professionals who ultimately advise the Politicians.

As an example, one of those professionals decreed some time ago, that students learn better when they are having fun learning. That is not a Politician decreeing, but a subject-matter expert. Having taught at a Rajabhat Uni. some time ago, I came to the conclusion it is a Uni. to babysit teenagers. Learning is a by-product. But they have fun and are not held accountable for educational performance.

Anytime I read such a drive-by smear of all Politicians, I see another agenda.

Generalizing and demonizing Politicians as a class, suggests to me that someone has limited Democratic sympathies and sees the results of electoral politics - Politicians - as an outcome of a process they would like to do away with.

Most likely because they have difficulty winning elections.

If Thailand is not producing teachers competent enough to provide results, it would appear the investment in teacher training through the years has not been utilised to good effect.

Can't really blame a government for attempting to improve this inherited situation by providing modern technology........after all, they are only attempting to enhance the teaching ability, and provide a learning tool, which may well go some way to addressing educational issues the inadequate teacher training delivers

Look to the academics who carry the responsibility to train teachers, if as stated in the OP, funding is adequate, why is the training system producing a continuing supply of poor quality teachers?

[hellodolly]

I've just put my daughter into an international school after 3 years in a renowned Thai nursery/early years school. The difference is astounding. To be blunt she learnt nothing at the Thai school and has learnt more in 1 month at ther new school than 3 years in the Thai school. The Thai system creates lazy dummies and sadly always will.

I totally agree with you.

But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).

True but you get electricity in the private schools.

Also how is a cheap tablet that no one understands going to help a student to add 2+2 with out counting on his fingers or grabbing a machine.

The students would have no problem if there was games on the Pads but there isn't and the rest is all lost on them.

[scorecard]

''' But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).'''

The quality of the education (and nothing to do with any presige value) would be the most important to me, to give my kids the best possible foundations for the future.

[hellodolly]

Without getting into the nitty-gritty of what this Economist says, apparently he is 'prominent" (whatever that means), there is also a non-educational theme to his opinions......... that being anti-Politician.

He lays all Thai educational travails at the feet of Politicians, when perhaps it may be better placed at the feet of Educational Professionals who ultimately advise the Politicians.

As an example, one of those professionals decreed some time ago, that students learn better when they are having fun learning. That is not a Politician decreeing, but a subject-matter expert. Having taught at a Rajabhat Uni. some time ago, I came to the conclusion it is a Uni. to babysit teenagers. Learning is a by-product. But they have fun and are not held accountable for educational performance.

Anytime I read such a drive-by smear of all Politicians, I see another agenda.

Generalizing and demonizing Politicians as a class, suggests to me that someone has limited Democratic sympathies and sees the results of electoral politics - Politicians - as an outcome of a process they would like to do away with.

Most likely because they have difficulty winning elections.

If Thailand is not producing teachers competent enough to provide results, it would appear the investment in teacher training through the years has not been utilised to good effect.

Can't really blame a government for attempting to improve this inherited situation by providing modern technology........after all, they are only attempting to enhance the teaching ability, and provide a learning tool, which may well go some way to addressing educational issues the inadequate teacher training delivers

Look to the academics who carry the responsibility to train teachers, if as stated in the OP, funding is adequate, why is the training system producing a continuing supply of poor quality teachers?

excellent point. Look at the academics responsible for teaching teachers. Miserable failures. And yet the Government listens to them.

I liked the part in CalgaryII post where he said his students had fun and any learning was a by product. How true some of the dumbest people I knew back in North America were collage graduates. It took a wise counselor to point out to me that you go to collage to learn how to learn.

[OleNordman]

I have never posted here before although I am a long time reader. I have to say that in my experience teaching here for over 8 years, in a variety of schools, subjects and grades, "Thequietman" hit the nail squarely on the head. Suggestions and ideas from non-Thai teachers here are scoffed at. If I had Ha-Baht for everytime I have been told "We do things differently here in Thailand, you don't understand how Thai children learn", I could retire in luxury! I have an 11 year old daughter who is now homeschooled because of the way the ponderous, repetitive, semi-abusive classroom demeanor of many of the Thai teachers was making her despise learning. It is sad to see the way that very bright, inquisitive young Thai children are dumbed down through the M.O.E. educational process to a point where they fear asking the simplest of questions. The support provided for government and "Wat" schools outside of Bankok is deplorable, and yet the directors of many of those schools are doing very well financially. Until the people of Thailand begin holding the educators responsible, and demand transparency in the use of their tax Baht toward education, I don't see any change happening in my lifetime. I believe the problem of low scores accross the board for non-affluent Thai students, and even the low I.Q. scores of these same children, sits directly on the shoulders of Thai culture and educational leadership, not on the children themselves. Of course, everyone who has lived and taught here for any length of time knows that to bring problems caused by Thainess into a discussion about virtually anything is taboo! (555)

[Reasonableman]

Collage... Ok let it be...

Edited February 12, 2012 by Reasonableman

[ajarnyai]

I have never posted here before although I am a long time reader. I have to say that in my experience teaching here for over 8 years, in a variety of schools, subjects and grades, "Thequietman" hit the nail squarely on the head. Suggestions and ideas from non-Thai teachers here are scoffed at. If I had Ha-Baht for everytime I have been told "We do things differently here in Thailand, you don't understand how Thai children learn", I could retire in luxury! I have an 11 year old daughter who is now homeschooled because of the way the ponderous, repetitive, semi-abusive classroom demeanor of many of the Thai teachers was making her despise learning. It is sad to see the way that very bright, inquisitive young Thai children are dumbed down through the M.O.E. educational process to a point where they fear asking the simplest of questions. The support provided for government and "Wat" schools outside of Bankok is deplorable, and yet the directors of many of those schools are doing very well financially. Until the people of Thailand begin holding the educators responsible, and demand transparency in the use of their tax Baht toward education, I don't see any change happening in my lifetime. I believe the problem of low scores accross the board for non-affluent Thai students, and even the low I.Q. scores of these same children, sits directly on the shoulders of Thai culture and educational leadership, not on the children themselves. Of course, everyone who has lived and taught here for any length of time knows that to bring problems caused by Thainess into a discussion about virtually anything is taboo! (555)

I agree 100%!!!

I am a language teacher, I teach Thai students about what is said in my country and what it means to us. Everyone at the school respects my ability to do what they can't; communicate in written and spoken English. I'm always asked to write speeches, and to explain what simple idioms mean in simpler language. Unfortunately, when I talk about my students behavior, and the lack of interest, they tell me that " These students didn't pass tests to get into the English program, but they were able to be sponsored by someone" (parents or an other benefactor) to get in..........

That's the end of the conversation. There's no more talk of what can be done to improve performance. It is, what it is; so to speak.

My "gifted students" are much the same; high interest and high scores in math and sciences, but little interest and very low scores in languages (English and Chinese).

Now that, Thailand is moving to become part of the "ASEAN" community in 3 or so years, English language skills are more important than they ever were, yet there is little official conversation about that can be done to accelerate the language skills of M5 and 6's to get them ready for ASEAN.

There is a big fat BLIND eye turned towards education in this country; even when it's important on a national scale.

Is it Thainess at the root of the problem? I don't know, but the teaching methods need to be reviewed, upgraded and, monitored...... and I think everyone knows that. I guess the big question is.................................................. Why doesn't anyone care?

[Throatwobbler]

I've just put my daughter into an international school after 3 years in a renowned Thai nursery/early years school. The difference is astounding. To be blunt she learnt nothing at the Thai school and has learnt more in 1 month at ther new school than 3 years in the Thai school. The Thai system creates lazy dummies and sadly always will.

I totally agree with you.

But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).

The cost of international schools is sadly far beyond the reach of many expats, too, despite their mythical prosperity compared with the average Thai worker. Throwing a few million baht at the Thai education system (the "tablet panacea") as a one-off "fix" achieves nothing long-term. Someone's enthusiasm that ran away like a freight train going nowhere useful. It is about long-term commitment, not crackdowns and quick fixes that fix nothing.

I agree totally about long term commitment, but how complicated will this road be as it means a reorganization of the entire education system.

Interim fixes should include proper vetting for all falang teachers introduced into the system and the abolishment of the "no fail" policies that the majority of schools have adopted. To those who don't understand this, the "no pupil shall fail" policy was introduced to keep up the appearance that school education levels were good so no pupil will be allowed to fail an exam; this was brought about by the grading of schools by the education authority.

I am not a teacher, but know enough of them to understand their problems; low grades are not an option. Having two teenage children in this system is very daunting.

The no fail policy came about because of a government directive that you can not move on to the next topic until everyone in the class has understood the previous topic and passed a test of some sorts on it.. All teachers know that there will alwasy be some kids who will not pass some topics. Rather than hold the whole class back schools and teachers introduced the no fail policy. This means it looks like all the kids have passed the last topic so they can move on to the next.

I don't codone this at all just trying to explain the true roots of the no fail policy.

[hanuman1]

''' But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).'''

The quality of the education (and nothing to do with any presige value) would be the most important to me, to give my kids the best possible foundations for the future.

In that case i would presume that given the various failings of the Thai education system highlighted here, you would want to move (or move your kids) back to the developed country you come from and practice what you preach.

I think there are more than a few farangs around here that give their kids a Thai education simply because they prefer to live in Thailand for their own selfish reasons, and then complain about the school system here even though it is within their power to go back to their own countries and give their kids what may be a better education. But they don't feel like it.

This isn't an 'if you don't like it, go home' post. It's a 'reassess the source of your grievance' post. Probably equally welcome to some posters, methinks.

[xthAi76s]

''' But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).'''

The quality of the education (and nothing to do with any presige value) would be the most important to me, to give my kids the best possible foundations for the future.

In that case i would presume that given the various failings of the Thai education system highlighted here, you would want to move (or move your kids) back to the developed country you come from and practice what you preach.

I think there are more than a few farangs around here that give their kids a Thai education simply because they prefer to live in Thailand for their own selfish reasons, and then complain about the school system here even though it is within their power to go back to their own countries and give their kids what may be a better education. But they don't feel like it.

This isn't an 'if you don't like it, go home' post. It's a 'reassess the source of your grievance' post. Probably equally welcome to some posters, methinks.

Wrong. Yours is a "if you don't like, go home" post; it's just a thinly veiled one.

So what if you've correctly identified the source of their grievances? Who cares?

What matters is that they have chosen (or been made) to stay in Thailand, and they have every right to openly complain and discuss and hope to better these issues affecting their children.

Next

Edited February 12, 2012 by ThailandMan

[hanuman1]

''' But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).'''

The quality of the education (and nothing to do with any presige value) would be the most important to me, to give my kids the best possible foundations for the future.

In that case i would presume that given the various failings of the Thai education system highlighted here, you would want to move (or move your kids) back to the developed country you come from and practice what you preach.

I think there are more than a few farangs around here that give their kids a Thai education simply because they prefer to live in Thailand for their own selfish reasons, and then complain about the school system here even though it is within their power to go back to their own countries and give their kids what may be a better education. But they don't feel like it.

This isn't an 'if you don't like it, go home' post. It's a 'reassess the source of your grievance' post. Probably equally welcome to some posters, methinks.

Wrong. Yours is a "if you don't like, go home" post; it's just a thinly veiled one.

So what if you've correctly identified the source of their grievances? Who cares?

What matters is that they have chosen (or been made) to stay in Thailand, and they have every right to openly complain and discuss and hope to better these issues affecting their children.

Next

As long as there's something/someone other than yourself to blame, the complaining will serve your purpose. Happy whingeing.

[Darkman]

so what you are saying, is the 3 or 4 native English teachers are the root causes of this ineffective system out of a pool of maybe 90 thai teachers in a large secondary school. yes you are not a teacher because if you were, you would know that any suggestion (and i mean ANY suggestion) by a foreign teacher is instantly dismissed by the thai staff. anything (and i mean anything) that could help the department function better at no extra cost to the school, is ignored.

the thai teachers are sheep, just following the same mundane repetitive teaching system since the 60's. they take more interest organising evenings out, school trips (that are just a jaunt with no benefit to the students) or their huge breakfasts,lunch and 5 times snacks than actually trying to change this broken system of education. the directors of these schools just cream funds destined for the students off the top and continue to plant their flower gardens and trees with the same bullshit signs all over the school, 'to be Number 1" and other nonsensical signs that are, 9 times out of 10 grammatically incorrect. when asked, why didn't you just ask your foreign teachers to check them first, you get the same answer, 'we don't want to lose face.'

basically, if you are white, young, handsome and a binge drinker, then you are the one for them.

the amount of fully qualified, real teachers, turned away from thai schools is huge because the thai staff know that this foreigner will want to teach. when he finds out this is just another monkey house, like the rest, he's gonna be pissed and they don't want change.

"dance for us monkey,dance. make the students laugh,turn up early,leave late and kiss our <deleted>. you will last a long time here farrang, we love you."

Well said.

[Darkman]

I've just put my daughter into an international school after 3 years in a renowned Thai nursery/early years school. The difference is astounding. To be blunt she learnt nothing at the Thai school and has learnt more in 1 month at ther new school than 3 years in the Thai school. The Thai system creates lazy dummies and sadly always will.

I totally agree with you.

But you also pay more in 1 months than 3 years in govt school (which is 100% free plus free books plus cash for uniform plus cash for equipments).

True but you get electricity in the private schools.

Also how is a cheap tablet that no one understands going to help a student to add 2+2 with out counting on his fingers or grabbing a machine.

The students would have no problem if there was games on the Pads but there isn't and the rest is all lost on them.

I think the tablets have a calculator in them. Perfect for Thai kids, they don't have to think just push buttons.