Rangers To Enter Administration, Portsmouth Following Suit... .

[StevieH]

was genuinely gobsmacked by this, that a club the size of rangers with the following it has could be allowed to get into this state. sad really.

There but goes a few things and that was Liverpool....

oh indeed, not so long ago and we were very much under the same threat. i don't know the full rangers story, is it a la hicks and gillett? raping the hell out of a football club for personal gain?

[mrbojangles]

is it a la hicks and gillett? raping the hell out of a football club for personal gain?

I don't believe so. He only bought them for a quid last year but took on their debt but I don't think he knew the size of the tax burden. Either that or doing the business savvy route and claiming bankruptcy only to emerge again.

[Abrak]

is it a la hicks and gillett? raping the hell out of a football club for personal gain?

I don't believe so. He only bought them for a quid last year but took on their debt but I don't think he knew the size of the tax burden. Either that or doing the business savvy route and claiming bankruptcy only to emerge again.

I think that Blether is best to discuss this problem. He bought for 1 quid but took on 18m quid of liabilities. The key point is whether the revenue who has at least 50m of liabilities outstanding falls behind or in front of him.

Essentially if Rangers can write off most of the revenue debt then the owners equity will be valuable. If they have to pay it first then it will be worthless. I think Blether's point is that as the owner is deemed a wanke_r they will use him as a test case. And will determine that the Government's revenue rank's higher than say equity, quasi equity, sub-debt etc etc... But I have no intention of putting words into his mouth.....

[cardholder]

^ I don't see anything sad in this at all. They cheated, they have got caught and now it's time to face the penalty.

What a narrow-minded, puerile view !

[rgs2001uk]

As mentioned by the blether, there is more to this than meets the eye.

The puerile poster as usual is talking rubbish, no team has been proven to be cheating on anything, this apparently would have been a test case by HMRC.

Easier taking on a team from a Mickey Mouse league and country than a premier league giant with the backing of the FA and television finances.

From todays Yahoo, dont know how true it is, but there usually isnt any smoke without fire.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15022012/58/premier-league-paper-round-prem-clubs-rangers.html

[onionluke]

I was reminded by a fellow in the pub , a few weeks ago , of the days gone by when a regular working man could afford to attend football matches at the weekend and his salary was sufficient . When I was a boy my father would take me to Firhill or Parkhead , I was lifted over the turnstile mostly and as I got older my father could still afford to pay . It went from about 75 pence to 7 pounds over the space of ten years . Last time I went to parhead it cost me 80 odd pounds for two tickets . Ironically as riots are erupting across Europe the overpaid footballers are still rolling into practise late in Humvees .

[Moonrakers]

As a Swindon fan I've been through this twice and we have been 24 hours away from liquidation. Wouldn't wish it on any fans in the world.

It's not the 'clubs' fault, and it most certainly is not the fault of the fans. Rather it is the fault of greedy and/or incompetent owners that are often not about for long anyway. The ones that are really guilty get to walk free, it is only the innocents that are made to suffer.

I find laughing at the possible extinction of even your closest rivals puerile. It's supposed to be a sport.

[onionluke]

As a Swindon fan I've been through this twice and we have been 24 hours away from liquidation. Wouldn't wish it on any fans in the world.

It's not the 'clubs' fault, and it most certainly is not the fault of the fans. Rather it is the fault of greedy and/or incompetent owners that are often not about for long anyway. The ones that are really guilty get to walk free, it is only the innocents that are made to suffer.

I find laughing at the possible extinction of even your closest rivals puerile. It's supposed to be a sport.

Aye sure , it is more like " pure rile " , the celtic fans will have their day and rangers will rise from the ashes as there is no other way . Motherwell could nip second place though and Rangers could squat Ibrox . Paupers indeed .

[Deserted]

Scottish football needs a competitive Rangers. There isn't anyone who can step into their shoes.

[MrRed]

Poundstretcher.

[theblether]

A bit of background......this post only deals with the EBT situation.......

There are 5,000 British companies using the Employees Benefit Trust. The EBT is a way of deferring payment to your employee, and used properly it is perfectly legal. In effect the idea is that your employer pays money into your EBT account and it is left for future use, hence reducing the tax due in this financial year. Basically it is spreading the benefit of money earned of the course of future years. It's not only football clubs that are using it, I know for a fact that several blue chip companies are using it.

Sportsmen are in a special financial category in the UK, it is recognized that their career can be short and lucrative, and that there earning capacity will never be the same in later life, so the government allows them to put more money into their pension funds than the normal populace, and they can officially retire and get the benefit of the pension pot at the age of 35. This applies to all professional sportsmen in the UK.

The EBT is intended to spread out the value of the contract over a longer period, hence spreading the tax burden. Ideal for sportsmen who may earn £20,000 a week for say 10 years then end up on the dole at the end of it. These guys would be paying super-tax when they are young and in many cases can end up destitute when older.

The problem for Rangers is that there was no deferred payment period and that has caused this test case to go to the First-Tier Tribunal. In effect Rangers were paying the money into the players EBT bank accounts monthly and the players were drawing it straight out.

Rangers have contested some points of law in connection with their culpability in the removal of the funds, and other issues in connection with the proper management of EBT's.

The word on the street is that there is a good chance that Rangers have actually won the case, I have no comment to make on that. So let's for a moment imagine that Craig Whyte is telling the truth, his primary worry about the EBT case is that even if Rangers win it that the HMRC will appeal, appeal, and appeal again.

That level of uncertainty over a prolonged period would have had a detrimental effect on the finances of the club, and every Rangers fan knows that the club has been trading at a loss for years.

So Craig Whyte called it that it would be better to go into administration and remove all of the uncertainty, as the club could not get on an even keel while this cloud was hanging over them.......In my opinion on this issue, he is correct.

Now then Rangers fans, let's imagine the EBT tribunal finds against you..........administration would be the only way out, and you can blame David Murray, not Craig Whyte.

if Rangers win the case, ( even now ), this threat of appeal after appeal after appeal is the problem. The reason why the HMRC are so desperate to take this test case all the way is that if they win it, it will shoot a very loud warning shot across the bows of the other 5,000 companies.

Rangers are not the target, the 5,000 are. Now the tragedy for Rangers is that they were picked to be the test case. How that came to be, I don't know. In the overall picture though, Rangers are perfect for the HMRC, they are small fry comparable to many, but so high profile that their fate is not only national news in the UK, but is also newsworthy worldwide.

Just perfect for the HMRC, they get all this free and terrifying publicity..........you can be guaranteed that there are Company Directors all over the UK having sleepless nights about this, if HMRC wins it will have major implications for many companies.

Rangers fans, here is what to do.........get on Facebook and start a campaign against the HMRC if they lose the case........don't allow them to appeal and appeal and appeal without you as fans fighting it. Every other football fan should join them in doing so as there are several English teams in the frame here too.

The way to fight it is to raise an e-petition criticizing the HMRC for hounding businesses into insolvency in connection with the EBT situation. If you can raise 100,000 signatures the petition must be debated in Parliament.

While you are at it, you must direct a campaign against every politician in Scotland, in particular your local MP, but miss no one, even your local councillor. Demand that your MP supports the e-petition and that he writes to the Treasury and HMRC to demand the withdrawal of the appeal.

Rangers fans will raise 100,000 signatures easy, you can do it all on-line. There are Scottish local elections coming up soon, make sure your voice is heard. Today you may be at home feeling useless.......get to it!! Go fight for your club and make sure the HMRC hears you.

[theblether]

Let's move on to the next scenario......what is Craig Whyte's game here.......in my opinion here is what he is up to. Let me begin by saying I own three companies and I have had battles in the past with tax men and liquidators. I'm not a rookie.

As far as I can tell Craig Whyte has a floating charge over the £18 million debt he guaranteed to Lloyds TSB. That means that if the company goes under he is first in the queue to get his money out. He is a clever boy, he has minimized his own financial risk.

I can see why he has not paid the £9 million. The HMRC have made it clear that they are after the big pot ( poss £49 million ), and they will do anything to get it. In my opinion Craig Whyte has stalled, stalled, and stalled again in making the payments. In my experience a 9 month gap between the beginning of non-payment till the HMRC losing patience and going for a court order sounds about right.

What I think Craig Whyte has tried to do is stall the HMRC beyond the announcement of the EBT Tribunal. The Revenue are not daft, they know this. In my opinion ( based upon experience ) HMRC have phoned him at 4.30 last Friday and told him they intend to put the club into administration if he did not pay on Monday.

Over the weekend he has made a judgement call that it would be better to go into administration voluntarily, and he went to court on Monday to place the notice of admin. HMRC have cracked up and forced his hand on Tuesday. He will have been annoyed at that, as apparently he was expecting an answer to the EBT Tribunal over the next few days, and if it had gone his way that may have made a difference, and he may have called back the notice.

Big business = tough tactics.

I don't think he has blown all the money, I think he is playing hard ball.......and I can see exactly why. You don't pay someone £9 million today that will come back and attempt to bankrupt you for £49 million next week......think about it, you wouldn't do it either. You would hold the money.

The hardest thing to do in business is keep your mouth shut. The idea of him telling the fans and media his tactics right now would be economic suicide, it would be mental. If he tells you then he is telling HMRC too. This guy has proven in the past that he has the bottle to have a go........and I have a hunch he could be the right snake in the grass after all.

Now I put my hands up and I could be totally wrong about him............but the more I see his dodgy dealings the more I see a snake. The question is, who will the snake bite?

[theblether]

Finally......

I personally know a four man consortium who are ready to bid for Rangers. One of the members is known to everyone in Glasgow and is a life-long Rangers fan. I'm not naming him.

One of the other two Rangers fans has been involved in Scottish football before, so that's a four man consortium consisting of three Rangers fans. The fourth member of the consortium will have Celtic fans fainting in disbelief.

These guys have the money........trust me, the fourth man alone could wipe out the entire Rangers debt. Rangers don't need to worry about money, there is a river of money ready to pour over Ibrox, and I mean a river of money.

Your only worry is HMRC, if they play hard ball they could force the liquidation of the club, almost irrespective of any counter offer. So get to it.......get that e-petition launched and harass the life out of your local MP.

[Abrak]

Blether knowing very little about the situation. Whyte bought the equity for 1 quid. he then paid off 18m of existing liabilities. There has been suggestions that he did that through a loan raised against future gate receipts or future TV revenues. (In other words not really his money.) (But it sounds slightly unlikely as those funds are needed to fund the business.)

Do you think he is putting his money on the line here or merely shuffling paper.?

[theblether]

Blether knowing very little about the situation. Whyte bought the equity for 1 quid. he then paid off 18m of existing liabilities. There has been suggestions that he did that through a loan raised against future gate receipts or future TV revenues. (In other words not really his money.) (But it sounds slightly unlikely as those funds are needed to fund the business.)

Do you think he is putting his money on the line here or merely shuffling paper.?

I am sure he has a personal liability somewhere along the line. He would not have been allowed to take control of the club without satisfying the Lloyds debt. You will remember that it was Lloyds who were effectively running the club at the time he bought it. It is Minuted in the sale agreement that his financial situation is protected. Basically he put himself in a no lose situation......I have seen the Minute.....I'll go try to find a copy and post it here.

[theblether]

Right.....here we go......

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/10/

That makes for very dry reading, but it tells you about the clause in place to protect Craig Whyte. Craig Whyte admiited that his position was protected a good while back.

An actual copy of the agreement is available from that website.

Just to cheer you up.........

To prove I'm not biased.........

The highs and the lows, this is football, this is why we love it, let's not lose it.

[Abrak]

Blether knowing very little about the situation. Whyte bought the equity for 1 quid. he then paid off 18m of existing liabilities. There has been suggestions that he did that through a loan raised against future gate receipts or future TV revenues. (In other words not really his money.) (But it sounds slightly unlikely as those funds are needed to fund the business.)

Do you think he is putting his money on the line here or merely shuffling paper.?

I am sure he has a personal liability somewhere along the line. He would not have been allowed to take control of the club without satisfying the Lloyds debt. You will remember that it was Lloyds who were effectively running the club at the time he bought it. It is Minuted in the sale agreement that his financial situation is protected. Basically he put himself in a no lose situation......I have seen the Minute.....I'll go try to find a copy and post it here.

Well you would have thought if you are putting up 1 quid you must be on the hook somewhere. (And as you hinted to earlier if he can get the revenue to take the haircut he will do fine but if they insist on their money it is going to get ugly.

The liquidation of Rangers is highly unlikely. Ibrox isnt worth much to anyone else. They generate 8 times the revenue of say Hearts. So you would think they could cut costs dramatically, still come second but a very lowly second.

[theblether]

Blether knowing very little about the situation. Whyte bought the equity for 1 quid. he then paid off 18m of existing liabilities. There has been suggestions that he did that through a loan raised against future gate receipts or future TV revenues. (In other words not really his money.) (But it sounds slightly unlikely as those funds are needed to fund the business.)

Do you think he is putting his money on the line here or merely shuffling paper.?

I am sure he has a personal liability somewhere along the line. He would not have been allowed to take control of the club without satisfying the Lloyds debt. You will remember that it was Lloyds who were effectively running the club at the time he bought it. It is Minuted in the sale agreement that his financial situation is protected. Basically he put himself in a no lose situation......I have seen the Minute.....I'll go try to find a copy and post it here.

Well you would have thought if you are putting up 1 quid you must be on the hook somewhere. (And as you hinted to earlier if he can get the revenue to take the haircut he will do fine but if they insist on their money it is going to get ugly.

The liquidation of Rangers is highly unlikely. Ibrox isnt worth much to anyone else. They generate 8 times the revenue of say Hearts. So you would think they could cut costs dramatically, still come second but a very lowly second.

The threat of liquidation comes solely from the HMRC making an example of Rangers to terrify the other 5,000 EBT companies.

[CelticBhoy]

^ I don't see anything sad in this at all. They cheated, they have got caught and now it's time to face the penalty.

What a narrow-minded, puerile view !

No it isn't. Watch the BBC documentary on Whyte then see today's Daily Record and read the Sykes story.

[theblether]

I've just heard on Radio Clyde that Rangers have the £9 million available but they just haven't paid it........that would verify my theory that Craig Whyte is the right snake.

The exact phrase used was " Craig Whyte will not face criminal charges in connection with the non-payment of the PAYE because it's not fraudulent, it just hasn't been paid to them ".

I ask you again......would you pay money to a guy today that was going to bankrupt you next week irrespective? No way.

[Abrak]

I've just heard on Radio Clyde that Rangers have the £9 million available but they just haven't paid it........that would verify my theory that Craig Whyte is the right snake.

The exact phrase used was " Craig Whyte will not face criminal charges in connection with the non-payment of the PAYE because it's not fraudulent, it just hasn't been paid to them ".

I ask you again......would you pay money to a guy today that was going to bankrupt you next week irrespective? No way.

Craig Whyte seems to just come across as a crook. I dont know if the previous owners got a payoff as part of the deal but that is the way these things usually work. He has collateralized his loan surprize surprize but the revenue will not let him get away with it.

Someone might make a lot of money.

[salty]

The administrators are holding a press conference at 3.30pm this afternoon at Ibrox. Maybe they will throw some light on the situation.

[theblether]

So it's been confirmed that Rangers have millions in the bank but the £24.2 million advance they got from Ticketus against future season ticket sales can't be found.

[Abrak]

I assume the ticketus loan is not collateralized.

[CelticBhoy]

I spied this today on CQN and reckon 'theblether' may be Alex Salmond!

I’ve heard some utter tosh from politicians over the years but never anything so blatantly untrue as the comments from our First Minister, Alex Salmond, reported today. This clown is telling people Rangers need to be saved for the sake of Celtic. He said:

“The most diehard Celtic supporter understands that Celtic can’t prosper unless Rangers are there. The rest of the clubs understand that as well. Therefore you have to have cognisance of these things when you’re pursuing public policy.

Keep our name out of it you incoherent fool.

If our prosperity depends on the survival of Rangers it’s time our values and priorities changed. You of all people should know this after your lecturing last year. Celtic have not been well served by their association with Rangers, nor vice versa. As a combined entity, the ‘Old Firm’ have not been good for Scotland.

I’m keen to hear what his “public policy” on the matter is. Salmond goes on to say:

“We’ve certainly been arguing to HMRC on one hand, and indeed to Rangers, to for goodness sake get a settlement, get a settlement and a structure over time whereby Rangers can continue because Rangers must continue for the future of Scottish football and for the fabric of the country.”

How dare you argue with HMRC? Even Rangers admit the potential underpayment could be £75m. How many nurses, teachers and policemen would that employ, Mr Salmond? This is the true cost of his position.

This sorry business has nothing to do with Celtic, I hope our club make this clear to provocative politicians. All you die-hard Celtic supporters out there better let this man know he has no right to speak for you.

“Fabric of the country”. He got that bit right, alas.

[smokie36]

Fabric of the west coast perhaps. There are many of us who dislike both clubs CB and for more reason than mere jealousy or dislike of your ancient bigotries.

Neither club has done anything to advance Scottish football in recent years and that combined with the SFA's intransigence has led to its stagnation. This is just another step on the downward spiral.

[theblether]

I spied this today on CQN and reckon 'theblether' may be Alex Salmond!

I’ve heard some utter tosh from politicians over the years but never anything so blatantly untrue as the comments from our First Minister, Alex Salmond, reported today. This clown is telling people Rangers need to be saved for the sake of Celtic. He said:

“The most diehard Celtic supporter understands that Celtic can’t prosper unless Rangers are there. The rest of the clubs understand that as well. Therefore you have to have cognisance of these things when you’re pursuing public policy.

Keep our name out of it you incoherent fool.

If our prosperity depends on the survival of Rangers it’s time our values and priorities changed. You of all people should know this after your lecturing last year. Celtic have not been well served by their association with Rangers, nor vice versa. As a combined entity, the ‘Old Firm’ have not been good for Scotland.

I’m keen to hear what his “public policy” on the matter is. Salmond goes on to say:

“We’ve certainly been arguing to HMRC on one hand, and indeed to Rangers, to for goodness sake get a settlement, get a settlement and a structure over time whereby Rangers can continue because Rangers must continue for the future of Scottish football and for the fabric of the country.”

How dare you argue with HMRC? Even Rangers admit the potential underpayment could be £75m. How many nurses, teachers and policemen would that employ, Mr Salmond? This is the true cost of his position.

This sorry business has nothing to do with Celtic, I hope our club make this clear to provocative politicians. All you die-hard Celtic supporters out there better let this man know he has no right to speak for you.

“Fabric of the country”. He got that bit right, alas.

Alex Salmond was right.

Without Rangers you will never get the co-efficient to qualify for the Champions League again.

Your asking for a downward spiral............I don't understand it??

We smaller teams dream of Europe, and we can only fantasize about the Champions League. It won't be long till Champions League football is a fantasy for you too.

That helps no one.

[Rinrada]

Looks like Ibrox park could become just another council estate...mmm

[Abrak]

I have wondered about this. Does the domination of say a couple of teams destroy more value than it creates in the League. Do you just end up with a bigger piece of a smaller pie.

So if you look at Spain.

Will the inevitability of the the teams dominance eventually destroy the league.

[theblether]

I have wondered about this. Does the domination of say a couple of teams destroy more value than it creates in the League. Do you just end up with a bigger piece of a smaller pie.

So if you look at Spain.

Will the inevitability of the the teams dominance eventually destroy the league.

Yes. The Premier League was formed in season 75/76. We went from being a 16 team development league to being a 10 team money hungry league overnight. A few seasons later the Old Firm put through a policy that they kept all the home gate money, hence choking competition even more. It all looked very clever up until satellite tv money arrived and the English and other major European markets soared away. The Old Firm used to be genuine contenders based upon gate money etc now they are both non-entities in the wage market. To make it even worse we smaller teams are suffering from disillusionment. My team is doing great, 3rd in league, but attendances are abysmal. There is no competition in the league, we went on a great run against the other teams and then we took serious hammerings from the Old Firm. The league is a waste of space......now we've got a financial cripple and a team that can be outspent by the english championship, habitualy failing in europe. We are going down in flames. I wish the old firm would eff off and at least make it an even playing field in scotland. You would see the cost base stabilise, and crowds soar as genuine competition returned.