"Raid" On Wildlife Sanctuary Had "Revenge" Motive?

[cowslip]

while what I have seen here is deplorable I would like to know if they have the proper papers why did they not come up with them in three days.

TIT - paperwork is usually irrelevant and can take time - it is usually "bought" too.

- as I think I said earlier it would be possible to find a "paperwork" fault in every single business in the country. However if you are dealing with animals it is usually impossible to wait for the paperwork to materialise - even if there IS such a thing. Remember in Thailand there are virtually no laws regarding the treatment of animals except the international trees that successive governments had given a nod and a wink to and then ignored. If you confront a govt official with this the chances are they won't have a clue what to issue or how to do it - so they just turn a blind eye. All tis is find until you end up in an argument and some nabob loses face or worse still loses income as well.

there ar done or two replies quoting my posts that are so stupid they won'y receive a reply. It amazes me sometimes how someone with so little idea of the issues feels they are in a position to make a comment. I look forward to hearing from those of you who at least attempt an intelligent response.

Edited March 7, 2012 by cowslip

[robblok]

while what I have seen here is deplorable I would like to know if they have the proper papers why did they not come up with them in three days.

TIT - paperwork is usually irrelevant and can take time - it is usually "bought" too.

- as I think I said earlier it would be possible to find a "paperwork" fault in every single business in the country. However if you are dealing with animals it is usually impossible to wait for the paperwork to materialise - even if there IS such a thing. Remember in Thailand there are virtually no laws regarding the treatment of animals except the international trees that successive governments had given a nod and a wink to and then ignored. If you confront a govt official with this the chances are they won't have a clue what to issue or how to do it - so they just turn a blind eye. All tis is find until you end up in an argument and some nabob loses face or worse still loses income as well.

there ar done or two replies quoting my posts that are so stupid they won'y receive a reply. It amazes me sometimes how someone with so little idea of the issues feels they are in a position to make a comment. I look forward to hearing from those of you who at least attempt an intelligent response.

You mean those of you that agree with you.

Seems there were no papers, but this organization wants other places to document where their animals come from even do dna testing but think there are other rules for themselves.

Also i never got a reply about how many animals were send back to the wild or how much the farang founder makes.

Also the remark about people paying to help, they are not qualified and every idiot knows that its not good for animals if there are new people all the time who need to learn how to handle them again.

You only respond to posts that agree with your view and you skip the hard questions.

[silsburyhill]

Whilst being no fan of what passes for animal welfare here, I do think the remark that 5k per day is reasonable to volunteer 'given there are 500 animals to care for' a tad disingenuous. This particular organisation is pretty high profile and I would be surprised if it were not pulling in healthy donations from other sources.

The video is of course deplorable, but the woman shrieking her head off when the monkey fell in the bucket was very unsettling, not least of all to the monkey! If any animal is in distress the correct way to lessen this is to deal with the poor creature in as calm and quickly a way as possible.

I read many news sources online and haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. Perhaps someone could let me have a link? Would've thought The Guardian UK would've picked it up? I scan it daily. Perhaps I missed something.

As to the 'crocodile' woman poster, she's an obvious loon, having described herself as having recently been 'reborn as an Andaman Crocodile' on the CNNi site.

[cowslip]

Whilst being no fan of what passes for animal welfare here, I do think the remark that 5k per day is reasonable to volunteer 'given there are 500 animals to care for' a tad disingenuous. This particular organisation is pretty high profile and I would be surprised if it were not pulling in healthy donations from other sources.

The video is of course deplorable, but the woman shrieking her head off when the monkey fell in the bucket was very unsettling, not least of all to the monkey! If any animal is in distress the correct way to lessen this is to deal with the poor creature in as calm and quickly a way as possible.

I read many news sources online and haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. Perhaps someone could let me have a link? Would've thought The Guardian UK would've picked it up? I scan it daily. Perhaps I missed something.

As to the 'crocodile' woman poster, she's an obvious loon, having described herself as having recently been 'reborn as an Andaman Crocodile' on the CNNi site.

i do wish people would check before they post....

"The price of the Full Day Experience is 5000 Thai Baht per group (1-6 people)" - this includes transport to the place and a meal.

[cowslip]

while what I have seen here is deplorable I would like to know if they have the proper papers why did they not come up with them in three days.

TIT - paperwork is usually irrelevant and can take time - it is usually "bought" too.

- as I think I said earlier it would be possible to find a "paperwork" fault in every single business in the country. However if you are dealing with animals it is usually impossible to wait for the paperwork to materialise - even if there IS such a thing. Remember in Thailand there are virtually no laws regarding the treatment of animals except the international trees that successive governments had given a nod and a wink to and then ignored. If you confront a govt official with this the chances are they won't have a clue what to issue or how to do it - so they just turn a blind eye. All tis is find until you end up in an argument and some nabob loses face or worse still loses income as well.

there ar done or two replies quoting my posts that are so stupid they won'y receive a reply. It amazes me sometimes how someone with so little idea of the issues feels they are in a position to make a comment. I look forward to hearing from those of you who at least attempt an intelligent response.

You mean those of you that agree with you.

Seems there were no papers, but this organization wants other places to document where their animals come from even do dna testing but think there are other rules for themselves.

Also i never got a reply about how many animals were send back to the wild or how much the farang founder makes.

Also the remark about people paying to help, they are not qualified and every idiot knows that its not good for animals if there are new people all the time who need to learn how to handle them again.

You only respond to posts that agree with your view and you skip the hard questions.

What you are saying is simply not true - a falsification - you are just making it up as you go along and drawing irrational inferences. - one wonders why though.

[robblok]

You told it yourself the papers are not there. Its in your own post. Also i said thins about the founder his salary.. You never countered it. You ignore all the tough questions people ask.

[silsburyhill]

You told it yourself the papers are not there. Its in your own post. Also i said thins about the founder his salary.. You never countered it. You ignore all the tough questions people ask.

You told it yourself the papers are not there. Its in your own post. Also i said thins about the founder his salary.. You never countered it. You ignore all the tough questions people ask.

Have to agree with this post, particularly pertaining to the CEO's salary and alleged lavish lifestyle. I am in no way attempting to snipe, it's just that I get truly pissed off when some of these people are indeed found to be exploiting those, whether human or animal, for their own gain. And animal welfare is an easy touch worldwide.

Here on Phuket is a lovely old gentleman who delivers food from his battered old car to the Samnak Sorng Promthep on a daily basis, excepting Tuesdays when he takes food over to Kathu, a fair distance away. He can also bee seen feeding the dogs at Ya Nui, Nai Harn lake, and all points in between. No 'gala dinners' or new 4 wheel drives with the animal welfare name emblazoned across the sides for him, although I am in no way denigrating the wonderful work these two other organisations do. It's obvious from his slight build and shabby clothing that he spends quite possibly most of whatever pension he has from europe to pay for the food himself. A quiet and unassuming individual who finds joy in taking care of these abandoned dogs with no recognition or fanfare.

So, again, you say you've worked with this organisation. Is he living it large, or not?

[cowslip]

You told it yourself the papers are not there. Its in your own post. Also i said thins about the founder his salary.. You never countered it. You ignore all the tough questions people ask.

You told it yourself the papers are not there. Its in your own post. Also i said thins about the founder his salary.. You never countered it. You ignore all the tough questions people ask.

Have to agree with this post, particularly pertaining to the CEO's salary and alleged lavish lifestyle. I am in no way attempting to snipe, it's just that I get truly pissed off when some of these people are indeed found to be exploiting those, whether human or animal, for their own gain. And animal welfare is an easy touch worldwide.

Here on Phuket is a lovely old gentleman who delivers food from his battered old car to the Samnak Sorng Promthep on a daily basis, excepting Tuesdays when he takes food over to Kathu, a fair distance away. He can also bee seen feeding the dogs at Ya Nui, Nai Harn lake, and all points in between. No 'gala dinners' or new 4 wheel drives with the animal welfare name emblazoned across the sides for him, although I am in no way denigrating the wonderful work these two other organisations do. It's obvious from his slight build and shabby clothing that he spends quite possibly most of whatever pension he has from europe to pay for the food himself. A quiet and unassuming individual who finds joy in taking care of these abandoned dogs with no recognition or fanfare.

So, again, you say you've worked with this organisation. Is he living it large, or not?

firstly there are no allegations that I'm aware of - only unsupported insinuations - so nothing to answer.

Secondly there is a HUGE amount of ignorance about wildlife and conservation being exposed in some peoples posts.

Feeding dogs is NOT conservation in fact it is a seriously bad thing to do as it increases the stray dog population.

THe organisations that have a positive effect require large amounts of money and need to get that from somewhere. they also need equipment - if you think they don't then it simply shows how little you know.

please can someone enlighten me on the "lavish life-style" of Edwin wiek?

[robblok]

You told it yourself the papers are not there. Its in your own post. Also i said thins about the founder his salary.. You never countered it. You ignore all the tough questions people ask.

You told it yourself the papers are not there. Its in your own post. Also i said thins about the founder his salary.. You never countered it. You ignore all the tough questions people ask.

Have to agree with this post, particularly pertaining to the CEO's salary and alleged lavish lifestyle. I am in no way attempting to snipe, it's just that I get truly pissed off when some of these people are indeed found to be exploiting those, whether human or animal, for their own gain. And animal welfare is an easy touch worldwide.

Here on Phuket is a lovely old gentleman who delivers food from his battered old car to the Samnak Sorng Promthep on a daily basis, excepting Tuesdays when he takes food over to Kathu, a fair distance away. He can also bee seen feeding the dogs at Ya Nui, Nai Harn lake, and all points in between. No 'gala dinners' or new 4 wheel drives with the animal welfare name emblazoned across the sides for him, although I am in no way denigrating the wonderful work these two other organisations do. It's obvious from his slight build and shabby clothing that he spends quite possibly most of whatever pension he has from europe to pay for the food himself. A quiet and unassuming individual who finds joy in taking care of these abandoned dogs with no recognition or fanfare.

So, again, you say you've worked with this organisation. Is he living it large, or not?

firstly there are no allegations that I'm aware of - only unsupported insinuations - so nothing to answer.

Secondly there is a HUGE amount of ignorance about wildlife and conservation being exposed in some peoples posts.

Feeding dogs is NOT conservation in fact it is a seriously bad thing to do as it increases the stray dog population.

THe organisations that have a positive effect require large amounts of money and need to get that from somewhere. they also need equipment - if you think they don't then it simply shows how little you know.

please can someone enlighten me on the "lavish life-style" of Edwin wiek?

Seems you don't like to answer everyone is asking about it but you keep silent. You are saying that papers are hard in Thailand but attacks others for not having papers and wanting DNA testing and attacking others for not having papers. I mean if you go that way make damm sure you got your papers yourself. And there are no papers else they would have been produced.

Then everyone knows that having 1 person or a few persons taking care of the animals learning all about it is much better as having people who have no experience (but pay money) to play with them and feel good.

Then the money or Edwin wiek, yes i question it i question all such places and with good reason. You haven't shown a shred of evidence eliminating my suspicions. You just ignore everyone with remarks that are not in line with yours.

Typical high and mighty stuff the thing that ticks people off. Proof and facts can help you.

[silsburyhill]

Firstly, here we go again, from some youngster a la the god botherers after the tsunami, and quite possibly having never visited Phuket stating emphatically, as these types do, that she is more knowledgeable regarding animal welfare than us residents. I suggest you grow up, actually get over yourself, and come here and see the difference between these cared for dogs before making ignorant /trotted out the same old 'But you feed them, they breed' Without even asking whether these dogs are breeding/have been neutered (they have) AND still refusing to answer direct questions re this 'Weiks'' motives. Why?

I suggest you desist posting inflamatory 'vids' and prepare yourself for any 'awkward' questions beforehand. In other words, research ... and grow up.

[rockderk]

Video of the raid would be helpful especially to get the heavyweight media orgs on it. Everything is else is just words and the Dept of national parks can shrug it off.

Aren't CNN "heavy" enough for you?

THere is no doubt about the raid the reasons are pretty obvious I would have thought - I can't see what point you are trying to make really......... why you would trust video any more than words - surely you are not that naive?

It is a shame that raids are not usually announced to the media before they occur as it detracts from the element of surprise.

However I believe if you google their web site, you'll find a video.

I did have a look at the vids of the raid on youtube. I do not believe CNN touched the story. In the Youtube vids I saw a lot of shrieking, short-stay, non Thai speaking, farang tree-hugger paying volunteers yelling in English at Dept of National parks and Wildlife personnel as they carried out their orders. Their orders were to get all the animals boxed up and out of the illegal animal park. Now I'm not saying Edwin Wiek is anything less than a hero to the animal kingdom. He's obviously deeply involved in animal conservation and rehab / welfare and the volunteers at the park no doubt are, too. But he named names. He accused officials of complicity in crimes [smuggling, poaching, selling animals etc] and that, my friend is not on in the land of smiles. Thailand is having one of their 'crackdowns' on animal parks now. Give it 6 months and you can lead a team of woolly mammoths past the office of the National Parks chief and he won't even look up from his cartoon book. Edwin should shut his mouth, pay the fee and quietly carry on doing what he does best.

[robblok]

Video of the raid would be helpful especially to get the heavyweight media orgs on it. Everything is else is just words and the Dept of national parks can shrug it off.

Aren't CNN "heavy" enough for you?

THere is no doubt about the raid the reasons are pretty obvious I would have thought - I can't see what point you are trying to make really......... why you would trust video any more than words - surely you are not that naive?

It is a shame that raids are not usually announced to the media before they occur as it detracts from the element of surprise.

However I believe if you google their web site, you'll find a video.

I did have a look at the vids of the raid on youtube. I do not believe CNN touched the story. In the Youtube vids I saw a lot of shrieking, short-stay, non Thai speaking, farang tree-hugger paying volunteers yelling in English at Dept of National parks and Wildlife personnel as they carried out their orders. Their orders were to get all the animals boxed up and out of the illegal animal park. Now I'm not saying Edwin Wiek is anything less than a hero to the animal kingdom. He's obviously deeply involved in animal conservation and rehab / welfare and the volunteers at the park no doubt are, too. But he named names. He accused officials of complicity in crimes [smuggling, poaching, selling animals etc] and that, my friend is not on in the land of smiles. Thailand is having one of their 'crackdowns' on animal parks now. Give it 6 months and you can lead a team of woolly mammoths past the office of the National Parks chief and he won't even look up from his cartoon book. Edwin should shut his mouth, pay the fee and quietly carry on doing what he does best.

He can name names and all.. but hen he better be damm sure all his paper are in order. Obviously they were not else this would not have happened. Something about people in glass houses.

[cowslip]

Video of the raid would be helpful especially to get the heavyweight media orgs on it. Everything is else is just words and the Dept of national parks can shrug it off.

Aren't CNN "heavy" enough for you?

THere is no doubt about the raid the reasons are pretty obvious I would have thought - I can't see what point you are trying to make really......... why you would trust video any more than words - surely you are not that naive?

It is a shame that raids are not usually announced to the media before they occur as it detracts from the element of surprise.

However I believe if you google their web site, you'll find a video.

I did have a look at the vids of the raid on youtube. I do not believe CNN touched the story. In the Youtube vids I saw a lot of shrieking, short-stay, non Thai speaking, farang tree-hugger paying volunteers yelling in English at Dept of National parks and Wildlife personnel as they carried out their orders. Their orders were to get all the animals boxed up and out of the illegal animal park. Now I'm not saying Edwin Wiek is anything less than a hero to the animal kingdom. He's obviously deeply involved in animal conservation and rehab / welfare and the volunteers at the park no doubt are, too. But he named names. He accused officials of complicity in crimes [smuggling, poaching, selling animals etc] and that, my friend is not on in the land of smiles. Thailand is having one of their 'crackdowns' on animal parks now. Give it 6 months and you can lead a team of woolly mammoths past the office of the National Parks chief and he won't even look up from his cartoon book. Edwin should shut his mouth, pay the fee and quietly carry on doing what he does best.

He can name names and all.. but hen he better be damm sure all his paper are in order. Obviously they were not else this would not have happened. Something about people in glass houses.

"Obviously they were not else this would not have happened."

why it happened has been explained earlier - where were you?

[zappalot]

Sorry but on the enp site you have to pay 12000 bht per week and maximum stay is two weeks IMO this is not good for the animals ,animals get used to people...

This statement as well as many previous ones just show that the people are just guessing around. The elephants there are roaming around within a large area. The main work of volunteers there is to prepare the food for the elephants. As you can imagine they need tons of food day by day. Volunteers are not used to be a mahout for the elephant, so the elphants never get used to the volunteers.

And how to get a blind or a elephant with a broken back back to the wild? They just need a place to build up a group with another elephants. Handicapped elephants stay together and support each other as they are highly socialised animals.

Of course i dont know at all about the profits of this park, but to buy old elephants, to feed them daily properly and so on cost money. At least one thing is for sure: as volunteers are around 24/7 its it can be out-ruled that they tell the people how great the park is and behind the scenes its just the opposite.

How can it be that in neighbourhooded elephant camps who are working 100% only for profit are dozends of unregistered elephants and no one is interested but a park who can provide papers on all elephants is raided one time after another:

An video of what's going on shot at such a raid...

http://www.allsiam.net

Edited March 20, 2012 by zappalot

[canopy]

Synopsis: the wildlife sanctuary claims they don't need to be legal because other people aren't and they themselves are doing good. The government's position is they do need to be legal, especially them.

About 20 mins into the above video a bombshell is disclosed. There is evidence this group has occupied conservation forest land without permission. Yet again their defense is other people do it. They are starting to sound despicable, destroying forest land and in clear violation of elephant laws and yet their response is aggression at being challenged for doing the very things they seem to condemn. I hope in the future they can see the error in their ways and get on board with Thai laws protecting elephants and forests.

[zappalot]

They are destroying forest land...

where is that stated?

their response is aggression

where can u c aggression???

Thai laws protecting elephants and forests.

anyway, good joke here...

by the way, did u hear one of the government guys asking Lek: "Do you have enemies?"

Did u know that another similar sanctuaries who criticized the illegal elephant trafficking in Thailand as well were raided, too?!?

The place who care most and can provide original paper for 90% of the herd and at least copies of the remaining 10% get the problem and places with this rates another way round dont have problems. But yes, TIT...

And how can an elephant older than the elephantnaturepark, blind or with a broken back being captured from the wild? by the elephantnaturepark?

[cowslip]

Synopsis: the wildlife sanctuary claims they don't need to be legal because other people aren't and they themselves are doing good. The government's position is they do need to be legal, especially them.

About 20 mins into the above video a bombshell is disclosed. There is evidence this group has occupied conservation forest land without permission. Yet again their defense is other people do it. They are starting to sound despicable, destroying forest land and in clear violation of elephant laws and yet their response is aggression at being challenged for doing the very things they seem to condemn. I hope in the future they can see the error in their ways and get on board with Thai laws protecting elephants and forests.

I think you need to brush up on animal protection "laws" in Thailand - there aren't any.

Next you might want to come up to speed on how "things get done" in Thailand - as it is mostly graft, nepotism etc almost very institution charitable or otherwise can find itself on the wrong side of some law.

Any realtor will tell you that much of the country isn't actually properly surveyed - so encroachment is common everywhere and sometimes there is tacit permission given by those who can't give it.

[robblok]

Synopsis: the wildlife sanctuary claims they don't need to be legal because other people aren't and they themselves are doing good. The government's position is they do need to be legal, especially them.

About 20 mins into the above video a bombshell is disclosed. There is evidence this group has occupied conservation forest land without permission. Yet again their defense is other people do it. They are starting to sound despicable, destroying forest land and in clear violation of elephant laws and yet their response is aggression at being challenged for doing the very things they seem to condemn. I hope in the future they can see the error in their ways and get on board with Thai laws protecting elephants and forests.

I think you need to brush up on animal protection "laws" in Thailand - there aren't any.

Next you might want to come up to speed on how "things get done" in Thailand - as it is mostly graft, nepotism etc almost very institution charitable or otherwise can find itself on the wrong side of some law.

Any realtor will tell you that much of the country isn't actually properly surveyed - so encroachment is common everywhere and sometimes there is tacit permission given by those who can't give it.

Ah so its like he said.. because others arent legal we dont have to.. but we attack others because we are better.

Like i said before when you live in a glass house dont start throwing around with stones.

[cowslip]

Synopsis: the wildlife sanctuary claims they don't need to be legal because other people aren't and they themselves are doing good. The government's position is they do need to be legal, especially them.

About 20 mins into the above video a bombshell is disclosed. There is evidence this group has occupied conservation forest land without permission. Yet again their defense is other people do it. They are starting to sound despicable, destroying forest land and in clear violation of elephant laws and yet their response is aggression at being challenged for doing the very things they seem to condemn. I hope in the future they can see the error in their ways and get on board with Thai laws protecting elephants and forests.

I think you need to brush up on animal protection "laws" in Thailand - there aren't any.

Next you might want to come up to speed on how "things get done" in Thailand - as it is mostly graft, nepotism etc almost very institution charitable or otherwise can find itself on the wrong side of some law.

Any realtor will tell you that much of the country isn't actually properly surveyed - so encroachment is common everywhere and sometimes there is tacit permission given by those who can't give it.

Ah so its like he said.. because others arent legal we dont have to.. but we attack others because we are better.

Like i said before when you live in a glass house dont start throwing around with stones.

just watch "Walk to freedom" on AustraliaNetwork tonight and learn something.

[canopy]

where can u c aggression???

Pay attention to the video sir. For me, aggression started when the young whipper snapper chained and padlocked the high ranking official out of their premises and from behind the fence gave him a tongue lashing to go get a search warrant if he wanted to further pursue the irregularities. Big mistake.

I think you need to brush up on animal protection "laws" in Thailand - there aren't any.

I don't understand why you would post a false statement like this. Is it a joke because I don't get it. Responses like this casts more doubt on the genuineness and credibility of this organization.

Next you might want to come up to speed on how "things get done" in Thailand - as it is mostly graft, nepotism etc

I am in disbelief how a group claiming to help wildlife so easily justifies blatant disregard for Thai wildlife laws intended to protect such precious things as forests and elephants. Intentionally stealing land from a national forest instead of buying land for a legal sanctuary, who would have believed someone could stoop this low. Thailand has no tolerance for foreigners coming to their country and breaking their laws and this is just one more example of that. No need to make up some grand conspiracy theory. Thailand doesn't need organizations like this.

[Whale]

It seems there was a press conference by the DNP yesterday to put forward their side as to what has happened and what laws/regulations they have accusations and/or evidence that may have been broken. It should be in circulation today.

[zappalot]

I am in disbelief how a group claiming to help wildlife so easily justifies blatant disregard for Thai wildlife laws intended to protect such precious things as forests and elephants. Intentionally stealing land from a national forest instead of buying land for a legal sanctuary, who would have believed someone could stoop this low. Thailand has no tolerance for foreigners coming to their country and breaking their laws and this is just one more example of that. No need to make up some grand conspiracy theory. Thailand doesn't need organizations like this.

Sangduen Chailert (Lek), the park's founder is a Thai national. What are you talking about foreigners?

Go get some information before guessing around wildly. They dont have wild elephants, how can they help wildlife then. It was never the intention to help wildlife there. Its a place to help elephants like that who are far away from wildlife, who the DNP gave a shit to care of, they never offered any help.

The one making up conspiracy theories is you. And go to Pattaya and see how many acually illegal brothels are owned/run by foreigners and you will tell the world "Thailand has no tolerance for foreigners coming to their country and breaking their laws"... Thailand accept Thai nationals as well as foreigners to break the law as long as they can pay for it. I live in Thailand, so please do not try to sell me nonsense stories...

Go and see the reality.

And if Thailand dont need places as Leks elephant park then who would take care of this handicaped elephant with a broken back? The DNP didnt... The previous owner of this poor creature gave a shit on this elephant as well after the incident he caused and absolutely no one took care.

Edited March 22, 2012 by zappalot

[HeavyDrinker]

The odd thing is that it took 70-odd posts before anyone began to get close to the real issue here; namely that Wiek has simply pissed off too many influential Thais with his unfounded allegations for something like this NOT to happen.

Given his penchant for making these unfounded allegations against powerful Thais (often to raise his own profile), it was only a matter of time until something like this happened and the authorities were set on him.

I'm afraid that he got too big for his boots, plain and simple and without sounding overly dramatic, frankly he has got off relatively lightly.

He continually claims to be knowledgeable about Thailand yet seemed utterly unaware of the "Golden Rule" for success here;

"Keep your mouth shut, your neck firmly wound in, be prepared to eat sh*t and never, ever bite the hand that feeds you" ( in this case, the hand which allows you to keep operating i.e. Thais in high ranking positions).

He should be thankful other issues surrounding his operation such as Labour Laws weren't looked into.

I do find it alarming when "crusaders" seem to think they have some sort of moral high-ground, yet refuse continually to answer relatively simple questions about the cause which they are "defending".

Cowslip, I would suggest that instead of ranting, you would probably attract far more support by actually answering Robblok's extremely pertinent questions which he has asked over and over but to no avail.

[HeavyDrinker]

Zappalot, I think Canopy was referring to Weik, not the Elephant Sanctuary.

And go to Pattaya and see how many acually illegal brothels are owned/run by foreigners

Don't make silly statements like this either or you'll find yourself shredded as on it's own this statement kicks any "knowledge" you think you may have about Thailand into the gutter....

[metisdead]

An off topic discussion has been removed, this topic is not about brothels.

[metisdead]

Points taken from the previous 2 deleted posts, however this topic is still not about brothels, that would be another topic altogether.

[cowslip]

where can u c aggression???

Pay attention to the video sir. For me, aggression started when the young whipper snapper chained and padlocked the high ranking official out of their premises and from behind the fence gave him a tongue lashing to go get a search warrant if he wanted to further pursue the irregularities. Big mistake.

I think you need to brush up on animal protection "laws" in Thailand - there aren't any.

I don't understand why you would post a false statement like this. Is it a joke because I don't get it. Responses like this casts more doubt on the genuineness and credibility of this organization.

Next you might want to come up to speed on how "things get done" in Thailand - as it is mostly graft, nepotism etc

I am in disbelief how a group claiming to help wildlife so easily justifies blatant disregard for Thai wildlife laws intended to protect such precious things as forests and elephants. Intentionally stealing land from a national forest instead of buying land for a legal sanctuary, who would have believed someone could stoop this low. Thailand has no tolerance for foreigners coming to their country and breaking their laws and this is just one more example of that. No need to make up some grand conspiracy theory. Thailand doesn't need organizations like this.

"I am in disbelief how a group claiming to help wildlife so easily justifies blatant disregard for Thai wildlife laws intended to protect such precious things as forests and elephants." - nonsense - these are not laws designed to protect wildlife - there are none in Thailand.

so they don't!

Edited March 22, 2012 by cowslip

[HeavyDrinker]

there are none in Thailand. so they don't!

You keep repeating this yet seem unable to back up this frankly stupid claim...

[zappalot]

Even if there are any laws with the intention to protect animals - What does it help if no one take care them, even not authorities? And if someone like Lek from the elephantpark ask the authorities to obey the law it is her place which is raided. A place every visitor after a few days/weeks of stay know that it is the best place for elephants in Thailand. A place with a clear reputation of protection of animals.

And how often it needed for example Weik to get authorities into action. They by themselves are blind and deaf, absolutely incompetent. They don't know how to set priorities because they don't want it. But what does I expect? TiT...

[HeavyDrinker]

Even if there are any laws with the intention to protect animals - What does it help if no one take care them, even not authorities?

OK, now you are getting closer to the real issue concerning the problems of wildlife conservation in Thailand, however it is not the topic of this thread.

And how often it needed for example Weik to get authorities into action

This is the point here.

Wiek did nothing to get the authorities "into" action.

Instead he just fired of accusations willy nilly which have now come back to bite him in the backside.

Frankly Wiek got too full of himself. It wasn't about the animals anymore; just about Wiek seeing himself as a crusader - probably to pull in the gullible "voluntourists" and make some money.

If you think that's "conservation" then I pity you.

Had Wiek had approached this issue in a more level headed and less arrogant manner, by actually trying to work with the authorities instead of continually kicking against them then he may have got somewhere.