submaniac Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Does anyone know, or in the alternative know someone (like someone in the police or military) who they could ask what is the procedure to obtain a license to manufacture firearms in Thailand. The production would not be on a large scale like Glock, but more custom 1911 based target pistols (i.e. small boutique high end custom builds). I tried asking my relatives, but they didn't know anyone and kind of think it cannot be done. I think it is a long shot to ask here because I am going to be getting anti-gun rants. But on the off chance that someone knows someone high enough to ask what the procedures are, I thought I'd give it a chance. I've scoured the internet but do not know what the procedures are, or even where to begin to ask who to even ask the license from. Thank you. P.S. Please no anti gun rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 To begin with, you'd need a WP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 have citizenship and Thai ID. No WP needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Oh, in that case, start manufactoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Need license before can start manufacturing. Kind of think it would be like, a crime, to manufacture a firearm without a license from Thai govenrment. Would be a 1911 based platform, but using the STI modular frame as used in the STI 2011 or SV Infinity. Should I put your name down on the wait list? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Need license before can start manufacturing. Kind of think it would be like, a crime, to manufacture a firearm without a license from Thai govenrment. Would be a 1911 based platform, but using the STI modular frame as used in the STI 2011 or SV Infinity. Should I put your name down on the wait list? I would love to have one here (had one in my old country) but in Thailand it's too expensive to buy a gun, not to mention the price of ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudolus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/citation/quotes/1257 Seems unlikely. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Given the amount of legal paperwork and time involved (Takes 12 months for the licenses to be issued) to allow us to build armoured cars I would hate to think whats involved to actually manufacture guns !! EDIT: to add to the licences, they are only good for 12 months and cannot be renewed so the whole cycle starts over once issued so that the new licenses are in place 12 months later when the current ones run there course. Edited February 16, 2012 by Spoonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Spoonman, who do you apply for the licenses with? I assume that the same department which issues the license to manufacture armored cars would also handle firearms manufacturing. Is the paper to and the license issued through the Ministry of Defense? Or is it the local registrar's office? I read the Thai firearms act and according to that, the local registrar issues the license, but the Ministry of Defense has to approve it first. Is it the MOD that takes the 12 months to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yeah needs to be approved by the MOD. As far as I know that is the process that takes the most time but Iam not directly involved so I don't know for sure. If you like I can flick an email to the lady in charge of sorting our licenses if you want. Send me a PM for my email addy and then email me what your wanting to know and I will pass it along as if anyone might know I guess she would. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Good luck with that. I hope you don't change your id here to "majormaniac' after you are in production? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you like I can flick an email to the lady in charge of sorting our licenses if you want. Send me a PM for my email addy and then email me what your wanting to know and I will pass it along as if anyone might know I guess she would. Thank you so much, I will take up your offer. At this point, I just need a starting point of beginning to see who to ask, and no one I knew even knew where to begin to even ask. Whoever does the license for your business would probably know the correct dept in Thai government to apply for the license. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you are located in Bangkok, I think there is an old Siam square place that sells all sorts of sidearms from the actual guns, bullets and accessories. You might snoop around there and ask questions. The last time I was there, they told me a Thai citizen can pay 500b to put in an application. Cooling off period is about a month. Just to clarify your intention, do you want to build the handgun from ground up, meaning building the frame and you inscribe the serial number or are you intending to customize a built up gun as most gunsmith do. Are you just replacing slides, firing pins, lighten trigger pressure, porting and so forth. I would imagine getting a license to build it from ground up would be a mammoth task. It is like starting a mini glock, colt, Remington factory. But to just do gun smith work, you may not need a licence provided you can get the parts into Thailand. In some countries, it is illegal to modify a gun. Reloading of bullets is not allowed in Thailand. You need to buy factory loaded bullets. Not sure how the center fire pistol shooters get their loads. If their are shooting rim fire, then no problem. Fancy shooting centre fire on factory loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Btw, I didnt see any of 1911 when I visited the shops. Mostly Walthers, glocks and short barrel stuff. Some revolvers. 38 & 9mm mostly. More for self defense type. Didn't see any 45acp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evermaat Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 .....Reloading of bullets is not allowed in Thailand. You need to buy factory loaded bullets. Not sure how the center fire pistol shooters get their loads. If their are shooting rim fire, then no problem. Fancy shooting centre fire on factory loads. sucks if you own a revolver."2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from TV android app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrilled Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I have A personal friend who has A gun shop in thailand.When they buy guns to sell they buy them from other countries.I'm not sure the thai government allows of manufacturing guns in thailand. If ya can't get permission don't even try it.Someone will tip the authorities you'll end up in A thai prison for A very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPI Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've tried to get a permit to reload .38 and 9mm ammo. I needed to get approval from the provincial Pol. Gen. not a hope as the BIB have that sown up, they consider wad cutters as "practice" ammo? Generally the ammo is reasonable, B1300 for 50 (.38Sp) 9mm cheaper. I didn't think there would be much demand as most shooters are pretty well heeled and can afford to get their pistols worked in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I've tried to get a permit to reload .38 and 9mm ammo. I needed to get approval from the provincial Pol. Gen. not a hope as the BIB have that sown up, they consider wad cutters as "practice" ammo? Generally the ammo is reasonable, B1300 for 50 (.38Sp) 9mm cheaper. I didn't think there would be much demand as most shooters are pretty well heeled and can afford to get their pistols worked in the US? Wow 1300b for 50 rounds. Those who shoot action with them could go thru 10,000b of ammo per afternoon. They must be really loaded. it is only a fraction of the cost if you cast your own lead. Bullseye and primers should not be that expansive. Notwithstanding the cost, you cannot customize the loads if you can't reload your own. Edited February 16, 2012 by thai4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I agree with thai4me ....I would think all you need is a gunsmith business I doubt you are considering building the frames & that is where the gun manufacturer level starts in most countries. (serial numbered lower assemblies) accurizing, barrels/slides/trigger kits etc is not manufacturing a firearm I would think Thailand is the same....but could be wrong Edited February 16, 2012 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handydog Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Clarifacation with Thai law please: What part of reloading is illegal? Owning press /dies? procuring the components... primers, powder etc? Is it legal to own a kinetic puller? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Clarifacation with Thai law please: What part of reloading is illegal? Owning press /dies? procuring the components... primers, powder etc? Is it legal to own a kinetic puller? Cheers Down south in Malaysia, possession of a spent shell (if you are not an appropriate licence holder) is a serious offence. ie if you are licensed to carry and use a 38 and you have other calibre ammo shells. This constitute possession of bullet making components. I would imagine that if the law prohibits bullet making, then importation or possession of the said components should be illegal. Even down right to a bullet puller. Technically, that is only useful when you do your own loads. But most people will think it is a hammer of some sort From observations of firearms for sale in the old siam square shops, i believe modification from stock standard is prohibited in Thailand. I did not see a single firearm that has been worked on. and i did not see any after market gun components for sale. ie barrels, firing pins, slides etc etc. I also did not see scopes or lasers. Revolvers looked as standard as they come. I did ask them about reloading bullets and I got a blank stare. To be fair, i also did not see any competition grade rimfire pistols on display. I would think that they only supply the self defence, concealed weapons sector given that most auto pistols are the small frame,short barrel variety. Surely did not see any 1911 which is one of the all time favourite for IPSC and action shooting. I wonder how the sporting shooters in Thailand compete in the center fire events. Fancy going to the range with stock pistols and full factory loads...... Edited February 16, 2012 by thai4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just to clarify your intention, do you want to build the handgun from ground up, meaning building the frame and you inscribe the serial number or are you intending to customize a built up gun as most gunsmith do. Are you just replacing slides, firing pins, lighten trigger pressure, porting and so forth. I agree with thai4me ....I would think all you need is a gunsmith business I doubt you are considering building the frames & that is where the gun manufacturer level starts in most countries. (serial numbered lower assemblies) accurizing, barrels/slides/trigger kits etc is not manufacturing a firearm Guys, I AM talking about the manufacture of the frame and slide. Not modifying someone else's frame, but making my own with my own with my own serial number. This is the STI that I was talking about: STI Legend, MSRP $2696.70 (www.stiguns.com) STI GM, MSRP $3691.55 (www.stiguns.com) In 1992 STI patented a new design for a 1911 frame where STI uses the top of the 1911, but used a polymer magwell and grip. The patent expired in 2008, and I want to base a design off of the STI modular system. The advantage of the STI system is that the frame is completely customizable and can be configured into an infinite variety of configurations. It can shoot .45, but by swapping out the barrel and the polymer mag well it can shoot 9mm, .38, .40, and basically any caliber without having to get a completely new frame. You can build it as a a hi cap 9mm (with a max of 26 rounds) or a single stack, narrow grip .45. STI is pretty much what the guys winning the IPSC and USPSA are shooting. STI is selling just the frame (no slide) for $400, for anyone wanting to custom build a gun. It is not a mamoth task to make the frames and the slides. The home gunsmith hobbyists are already building copies and variations of this particular frame and slide on their own using CNC machining. http://www.cncguns.com/projects/stiframe.html To make the 1911 frame and slide I would need to purchase a CNC mill and ship it to Thailand. However, before I spend the money I want to first know if it is possible to obtain a license to manufacture in Thailand. The reason I would like to manufacture in Thailand is to bypass the import customs duties on the import of firearms. There is a 40% import duty on imported firearms. The Glock that costs $500 in the USA costs $2500 in Thailand. See: http://www.cnngo.com/bangkok/shop/bangkok-gun-shops-why-you-dont-want-buy-glock-thailand-009893 What I wanted to do was start off manufacturing the frames and slides in Thailand to avoid the customs duties. Then importing barrels and other parts per buyer's specifications to make a custom pistol. In other words, if the buyer wants a storm lake competition barrel, ship one in. Caspian slide, etc. I think there would be enough of a market to have a custom built 1911 competition grade that costs less than a Glock. If I can't get a license to manufacture in Thailand, the back up plan would be to purchase the manufacturing equipment in the USA, manufacture the frames/slides here, purchase barrels and other components per buyer specifications, ship to Thailand, and have it assembled there as a custom build. It still would be cheaper to manufacture it myself than to purchase from an established manufacturer. Shame on you. Isn't enough killing in this world No anti gun rants. People are going to kill each other regardless. Be it in traffic collisions, with knives, or with guns. However the people who are planning to kill with a gun are not going to be using competition grade target pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I am convinced that you are capable of making a nice handgun. As many people have highlighted, it is surely not going to be easy to obtain a licence to do so. Thailand allows gun ownership but may not be so liberal when it comes to manufacturing it. It is not impossible but I think you also need to get a well connected partner for this venture. Have you considered approaching from the angle of manufacturing it as a standard sidearm for the Thai police and the military? You could chamber them differently for police and another for the military. Maybe 40 for the police and 9mm for military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I would not mind partnering up with someone who has connections. Unfortunately I don't know anyone on that level. And it would have to be a really high level if we are talking a government contract to supply police or military. The money would be enormous though. The Thai government purchased 15,000 IMI Tavor TAR 21 rifles. The cost? $30.1million: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/757693_Thailand_to_buy_15_000_Tavor_TAR_21_from_Israel.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Good luck & i understand the desire but, I think anyone other than a major supplier will get their frames overseas & build up a gun from there. I am not certain why a frame or slide would constitute import duties of a firearm yet the barrel trigger parts etc would not? Like I said good luck & I understand the desire but without a large market it would be tough to justify the manufacture of your own frames & slides cost wise. All the top smiths in the US started out modding & got a name then went on to produce their own frames once they had a following. Sure guys like Les Baer now do their own frames but they created demand first. If you have the skills then go grab a few china 1911 frames & mod them. Take that mock up around & show it off...maybe like thai4me said military & cops. Then if you can get a commitment based on *your* quality added......Then consider the larger picture. Just my thoughts...Good luck though I love race guns & have always reloaded & competed ....will have to quit soon I guess as I plan to move to Thailand in a couple months full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Like I said good luck & I understand the desire but without a large market it would be tough to justify the manufacture of your own frames & slides cost wise. Well thank you for the concern. I will take it one step at a time to first see if it is possible to even get a license. I think it would be profitable if the license is doable. If you have the skills then go grab a few china 1911 frames & mod them. All of the Chinese 1911's are Norinco (China's national firearms company) and they were banned from being imported by the Bush administration until present after Norinco execs tried to sell missle's to gang members in a sting operation. (Really, it's true.) The Norinco's are actually one of the best frames available as it is forged steel, and are hard to get and getting pricier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) All of the Chinese 1911's are Norinco (China's national firearms company) and they were banned from being imported by the Bush administration until present after Norinco execs tried to sell missle's to gang members in a sting operation. (Really, it's true.) The Norinco's are actually one of the best frames available as it is forged steel, and are hard to get and getting pricier. Actually that also started with Clinton against China firearm/ammunition imports as a trade sanction for human rights violations....supposedly Then again by Bush exec order as a 2 year ban around 2003...yes something about missiles & Iran.....I think once again the US just did not like the competition when it comes to arms trade..Do not know if the EO was extended But yes that was the frames I was thinking of Norinco's...We use to buy the whole 45 for $300 in the early 1990's in the US decent gun to accurize. Edited February 17, 2012 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ah yeah, back in the good ol days. Check on gunbroker.com, and you'll see the Norinco's are getting up in value...almost approaching the price of the Colt's (well the Colt's are still astronomically expensive). For me it would be a double whammy because of California's approved handgun roster. Even if I could find a Norinco, I couldn't have it transferred and dros'd in California as it is not on the approved handgun roster list. Even a bare frame. The Executive Order is still in effect. It was a presidential order, and the only way to rescind a presidential order is by another presidential order. And Obama is not going to do that. South Korea has a huge stockpile of U.S. made M1 Garands and tried to reimport them back to the United States to sell to collectors, and Obama vetoed that. Would love to have an affordable Garand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) South Korea has a huge stockpile of U.S. made M1 Garands and tried to reimport them back to the United States to sell to collectors, and Obama vetoed that. Would love to have an affordable Garand. You know we use to be able to get Garands for like $160 as new You just had to shoot in the High Power qualifier match I think it was two x back then 80 rounds per match. Then you were given a certificate & allowed to purchase it quite inexpensively. I passed on mine & never bought it as I mainly shot .223 in various rifles for match. Also reloading the garand was expensive for me compared to 223 I just did a quick search & it may still be going on.... http://home.windstre...m1purchase.html Edited February 17, 2012 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowork114 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Permit issuance for firearms manufacturing is managed by: DEFENCE INDUSTRIAL DEPARTMENT , DEFENCE INDUSTRY AND ENERGY CENTER 76 Taharn Road, Kwang Thanonnakornchaisri Dusit District Bangkok 10300 Thailand You can contact them with your request but the chance of getting it is very slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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