Explosion At Karon Hotel - At least 30 tourists injured at Phuket Orchid Resort

[chrisinth]

I'm curious what caused it. Smoking while filling the tank or bonking a valve with a hammer.

Class 1 Division 1 Hazardous Locations require expensive electrical fittings. Inspections are a pain in the arse, but very needed.

Would never have classed a swimming pool as class 1, div. 2

Where is this mentioned? First quote is pretty specific, second is more exact

My comment was that I wouldn't have classed a swimming pool as a class 1, div 2 area. I have never seen any swimming pool, anywhere in the world, that uses CSA/APEX approved valves, gauges or fittings, never seen EYS/EYM fittings on electrical conduit and never seen NEMA 4x enclosures in use.

If this requirement was in the swimming pool specifications, then yes, it should be followed. If you are implementing class 1, div 2 standards, then it has to include the whole system and not be partial.

[chrisinth]

18 years 'experience' and the guy makes a mistake that almost causes a disaster.

Thai Police then criticise the media for reporting it, denying their was even an explosion.

There's no end to their deceit and incompetence.

Piper A comes to mind very quickly here. Accidents happen, everywhere!

[spectrumisgreen]

I am hoping none of the injured are any from the Australian airline that went bust and left everyone stranded...That would be just a bit way toooo much to deal with with...Hopefully they all recover soon...

bad that ANYONE got injured.. WHOEVER got caught up in the incident were unlucky... wouldn't go along with the sentiment that there's people/ groups who it would be better or worse to have happened to...

Edited February 19, 2012 by spectrumisgreen

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

I am hoping none of the injured are any from the Australian airline that went bust and left everyone stranded...That would be just a bit way toooo much to deal with with...Hopefully they all recover soon...

bad that ANYONE got injured.. WHOEVER got caught up in the incident were unlucky... wouldn't go along with the sentiment that there's people/ groups who it would be better or worse to have happened to...

Rather evident you missed my point...

[ScubaBuddha]

• Airport shuttle fee: THB 1,000 per person (one way)
  
• Fee for wireless Internet in business center: THB 100 (for 30 minutes, rates may vary)
  
• Fee for wireless Internet in all public areas: THB 100 (rates may vary)
  
• Fee for in-room wireless Internet: THB 100 (for 30 minutes, rates may vary)
  
• In-room safe fee: THB 50 per day
  
• Rollaway bed fee: THB 800 per night
  

A night in the local hospital with respiratory chemical burns...priceless.

[marc11864]

With quality like this in a hotel, who needs terrorism?

[lovelaos]

I've occasionally worked with the Thai Army as a consultant/technical adviser on some US made trucks over the past 10 years.

They've had this equipment for over 20 years. Their level of expertise is at the bottom of the barrel.

Basically they NEVER EVER change or check the oil, so eventually the engine seizes up. They then proceed to remove every single part of the truck, to "re-build" it, when all it needed was a new engine.

I love the country & without fail, everyone I've worked with are the nicest of nice people, but when I try to show them a way that is 100 times more efficient to do something, I get a smile & they just keep on doing what they were doing before.

I often say that it was a kind of curse, that Thailand was never colonized. I know that is a very incorrect thing to say. I realize it could offend a lot of Thai people. But, if you compare Thailand to Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and many other countries that were colonized, you see how much more open minded those people are, than the Thais, who are very, very stubborn, and closed minded people. Their way is the correct way, and it is nearly impossible that another way, or especially a fareng way, could be more efficient, better, or more effective, than their way. It is not a productive way. How Thailand became the worlds 22nd largest economy, despite this mindset, is a testament to the Thai spirit.

I agree, having worked in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos over the last 12 years in the engineering field, the Thais are the most stubborn race of the region. I also put this down to the fact that they have quite proudly never been colonized.

[GazB]

Not knowing the complete facts of this particular incident i cannot comment on this engineer's actions directly, but having worked throughout the U.K. and Europe in the water treatment industry and having my own water treatment company in Phuket, (we clean water storage tanks not pools) I can say that it was an accident waiting to happen. As a water treatment engineer in the U.K. all persons that handle dangerous chemicals must have the correct training, and substances that are hazardous to health are covered by COSHH (the Control Of Substance that are Hazardous to Health) and strict guidelines are in place to prevent accidents such as this happening. Unfortunately Thailand seems to have no such regulations in place, and accidents with chemicals are commonplace. Just because someone has 20 years experience doesn't mean that they know what they are doing! Its about time Regulations in Thailand regarding Water Treatment are brought under more scrutiny and staff given proper and full training. Or they employ companies that are specifically trained in this area.

[Soutpeel]

Not knowing the complete facts of this particular incident i cannot comment on this engineer's actions directly, but having worked throughout the U.K. and Europe in the water treatment industry and having my own water treatment company in Phuket, (we clean water storage tanks not pools) I can say that it was an accident waiting to happen. As a water treatment engineer in the U.K. all persons that handle dangerous chemicals must have the correct training, and substances that are hazardous to health are covered by COSHH (the Control Of Substance that are Hazardous to Health) and strict guidelines are in place to prevent accidents such as this happening. Unfortunately Thailand seems to have no such regulations in place, and accidents with chemicals are commonplace. Just because someone has 20 years experience doesn't mean that they know what they are doing! Its about time Regulations in Thailand regarding Water Treatment are brought under more scrutiny and staff given proper and full training. Or they employ companies that are specifically trained in this area.

Actually Thailand does have such regulations, but as with most things in Thailand, what is written on paper and what happens in reality are vastly different things, bascially there is a complete lack of accountabilty in these things...in this case the hotel itself should be brought to book, not the employee....fine the hotel for lack of training, oversight etc etc......consequence for ones actions is the only way things will change in Thailand, this applies across the board.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Soutpeel

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[islandguy]

As regards all the generalizations about Thai people on this thread, a little story. Years ago I was managing a small resort on Samui and we had continuing problems with the pool being cloudy.Our manintenance guys couldn't fix it despite having maintained the same pool for a couple of years, and I didn't have any experience maintaining pools despite having completed several years of college chemistry classes. We brought in a small Thai company to help us and they had it sparkling in short order. Turns out the two principals both had degrees in chemical engineering. I think less talk about national characteristics and more awareness of specific individual knowledge would help these kinds of 'discussions'. I am also guilty of saying things like, "Thai people........" and will try to do better myself.

[thaibeachlovers]

As regards all the generalizations about Thai people on this thread, a little story. Years ago I was managing a small resort on Samui and we had continuing problems with the pool being cloudy.Our manintenance guys couldn't fix it despite having maintained the same pool for a couple of years, and I didn't have any experience maintaining pools despite having completed several years of college chemistry classes. We brought in a small Thai company to help us and they had it sparkling in short order. Turns out the two principals both had degrees in chemical engineering. I think less talk about national characteristics and more awareness of specific individual knowledge would help these kinds of 'discussions'. I am also guilty of saying things like, "Thai people........" and will try to do better myself.

Being married to a Thai, and living in Thailand, which I do still like ( though the gloss has pretty much worn off ) I'd really like to be able to say it's about <specific individual knowledge> rather than <national characteristics >, but having been exposed to local ( "national" ) characteristics far more than before getting married, i have to admit that i can never go into the town ( not a tourist in sight ) without mind boggling instances of utter stupidity being in evidence all about me. Even as I write this, I can see a continual stream of idiot m'bike riders exhibiting a total lack of any sense of self preservation or sense.

If it wasn't so sad, it'd be funny, in a pathetic way.

[Thongkorn]

I'm curious what caused it. Smoking while filling the tank or bonking a valve with a hammer.

Class 1 Division 1 Hazardous Locations require expensive electrical fittings. Inspections are a pain in the arse, but very needed.

Would never have classed a swimming pool as class 1, div. 2

To some one in the know, you can produce a bomb from most kitchen Cabinets, thats the problem people mix chemicals maybe by accident and there are reactions.

[chrisinth]

I'm curious what caused it. Smoking while filling the tank or bonking a valve with a hammer.

Class 1 Division 1 Hazardous Locations require expensive electrical fittings. Inspections are a pain in the arse, but very needed.

Would never have classed a swimming pool as class 1, div. 2

To some one in the know, you can produce a bomb from most kitchen Cabinets, thats the problem people mix chemicals maybe by accident and there are reactions.

Don't understand what your point is? If you make your kitchen class 1, div 2, and still have access to the cabinets, you could still make a bomb.

My comment was, and still is "Would never have classed a swimming pool as class 1, div. 2"

Please see post #121 in this thread

[Lite Beer]

Pregnant Swede still in Phuket hospital after chlorine gas exposure

Phuket Gazette –

Gundersen Ohrstrand from Norway carries his one-year-old son Martin at Patong Hospital after the incident. Martin was the youngest person to be affected by the chlorine cloud. Photo: Atchaa Khamlo

Phuket Orchid Resort General Manager Philip Raiss at a press conference at the resort on Saturday afternoon. Photo: Atchaa Khamlo

PHUKET: A pregnant Swedish woman exposed to a cloud of chlorine gas at a Phuket resort on Saturday remains in the hospital, despite the resort management’s claims that all of those affected were treated and released the same day.

Patong Hospital official Hathairat Rangsansarit told the Phuket Gazette today that all 37 victims, initially rushed to Patong Hospital, were later transferred to Vachira Phuket Hospital, Bangkok Hospital Phuket or Phuket International Hospital.

All have been released with the exception of 27-year-old Annika Ober Hrnic of Sweden, who is still under observation at Bangkok Hospital Phuket because she is seven months pregnant, Ms Hathairat confirmed.

Staff at Bangkok Hospital Phuket declined to divulge to the Phuket Gazette details of Mrs Hrnic’s condition, other than she was still under observation in the intensive care unit.

However, Mr Hathairat, who has continued to follow the Swede’s condition, said, “Even though her fetus is fine, Mrs Hrnic has to remain under observation. She will probably be released in a few days.”

Mrs Hrnic, who initially had difficulty breathing, discontinued the use of an oxygen mask yesterday, she said.

Mrs Hrnic’s husband Adnan and their three-year-old daughter Laura have both already been released from hospital.

According to a report at the Patong Hospital, nine of the 37 injured were children under 15 years of age, and the youngest was one-year-old boy Martin Ohrstrand.

“According to the hospitals’ records, most of patients were released Saturday evening. A few were released on Sunday,” she said.

This news of people being released from hospital yesterday comes after Phuket Orchid Resort General Manager Philip Raiss told a press conference on Saturday: “Every single person taken to hospital has returned to the resort. Not a single person has checked out. They are all okay.”

Source: http://www.phuketgaz...ch=yes&Id=12367

-- Phuket Gazette 2012-02-20

[atyclb]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

You do realize that Thailand is a developing (third-world) country, right? If you want wine expertise, go to Europe.

Food court at Big C. Stall that has various Thai curry dishes. Employee at stall, who may or may not be the person that cooked the food (kitchen at same stall)

Employee asked "anything cooked with red curry"? (used gang dang, gang pet) Person asking has near native Thai accent and is clearly understood by locals.

Employee appears confused, answers "no"

We look at dishes and point to what may be red curry and ask him "what is this" He looks around a bit, appears to be soul searching, then utters the words in Thai, red curry.

There are multiple recurrent events like this, day in and day out. Not to bash Thailand but this is simply the way it is. Competence is the exception. The people are not at fault as it seems the education system does not train the mind to think.

Simply inproving English language skills and not the underlying cognitive ability will do little to help compete in the global community.

BTW, I have had discussions in third world countries particularly in Latin America with wine serving staff who were fairly knowledgable about wine.

Yesterdays encounter; at a McDonalds I order 1 dip cone. The Thai way is "aw cone dip neung" In 30 seconds the girl hands me a cone of ice cream only. I tell her I ordered a Cone dip. She then informs me it is more expensive than the reg cone. Perhaps to save face she has to say this. I ask her "what did I order" A; cone dip. I smile and say thank you and sawadeekap. There just blazing mind boggling incompetence everywhere.

Again, that is just the way it is.

Edited February 21, 2012 by atyclb

[chrisinth]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

You do realize that Thailand is a developing (third-world) country, right? If you want wine expertise, go to Europe.

Food court at Big C. Stall that has various Thai curry dishes. Employee at stall, who may or may not be the person that cooked the food (kitchen at same stall)

Employee asked "anything cooked with red curry"? (used gang dang, gang pet) Person asking has near native Thai accent and is clearly understood by locals.

Employee appears confused, answers "no"

We look at dishes and point to what may be red curry and ask him "what is this" He looks around a bit, appears to be soul searching, then utters the words in Thai, red curry.

There are multiple recurrent events like this, day in and day out. Not to bash Thailand but this is simply the way it is. Competence is the exception. The people are not at fault as it seems the education system does not train the mind to think.

Simply inproving English language skills and not the underlying cognitive ability will do little to help compete in the global community.

BTW, I have had discussions in third world countries particularly in Latin America with wine serving staff who were fairly knowledgable about wine.

Yesterdays encounter; at a McDonalds I order 1 dip cone. The Thai way is "aw cone dip neung" In 30 seconds the girl hands me a cone of ice cream only. I tell her I ordered a Cone dip. She then informs me it is more expensive than the reg cone. Perhaps to save face she has to say this. I ask her "what did I order" A; cone dip. I smile and say thank you and sawadeekap. There just blazing mind boggling incompetence everywhere.

Again, that is just the way it is.

You should be careful with your diet. Try ordering food from Thai shops not foreign ones and show them your competence in their language in their country.

That should bring your blood level down so you can get on with your day.

[Johpa]

Yesterdays encounter; at a McDonalds I order 1 dip cone. The Thai way is "aw cone dip neung" In 30 seconds the girl hands me a cone of ice cream only. I tell her I ordered a Cone dip. She then informs me it is more expensive than the reg cone. Perhaps to save face she has to say this. I ask her "what did I order" A; cone dip. I smile and say thank you and sawadeekap. There just blazing mind boggling incompetence everywhere.

Again, that is just the way it is.

And what do you care? As long as domestic staff and sex for hire remain affordable you will stay and complain and be happy in the mistaken belief that your spoken Thai can be easily parsed by everyone you encounter as even I want to know what "dip" classifies (go to the langauge section to ask how classifiers work). Chaiyo!

[spidermike007]

As regards all the generalizations about Thai people on this thread, a little story. Years ago I was managing a small resort on Samui and we had continuing problems with the pool being cloudy.Our manintenance guys couldn't fix it despite having maintained the same pool for a couple of years, and I didn't have any experience maintaining pools despite having completed several years of college chemistry classes. We brought in a small Thai company to help us and they had it sparkling in short order. Turns out the two principals both had degrees in chemical engineering. I think less talk about national characteristics and more awareness of specific individual knowledge would help these kinds of 'discussions'. I am also guilty of saying things like, "Thai people........" and will try to do better myself.

Being married to a Thai, and living in Thailand, which I do still like ( though the gloss has pretty much worn off ) I'd really like to be able to say it's about <specific individual knowledge> rather than <national characteristics >, but having been exposed to local ( "national" ) characteristics far more than before getting married, i have to admit that i can never go into the town ( not a tourist in sight ) without mind boggling instances of utter stupidity being in evidence all about me. Even as I write this, I can see a continual stream of idiot m'bike riders exhibiting a total lack of any sense of self preservation or sense.

If it wasn't so sad, it'd be funny, in a pathetic way.

The nation was cursed with a terribly poor genetic gene pool. It is that simple. Having traveled here for over 30 years, and lived here for over 6 years, there is simply no other plausible explanation. The lack of colonization does make them more stubborn than their neighbors. The nationalization taught to them by their leaders over the past 30 years or so, has contributed to an incredible degree of narrow mindedness. The educational system seem to stifle any creativity, and individual thinking. Thais are very, very rarely able to think outside the box. There are exceptions of course. I have seen some. But, on the average, the number of nearly brain dead individuals in this country is astounding.

[Johpa]

The nation was cursed with a terribly poor genetic gene pool. It is that simple.

Crikey, it was only a few weeks ago that I felt that a ThaiVisa thread had hit a new low and I was expecting that new low to hold its own for at least a few months. But then this post just pulled the bar even further downwards into the neo-shahib moral morass. Yet I doubt we will see blatantly racists posts like the above deleted by George's minions. Once again George...Chaiyo!

[spidermike007]

The nation was cursed with a terribly poor genetic gene pool. It is that simple.

Crikey, it was only a few weeks ago that I felt that a ThaiVisa thread had hit a new low and I was expecting that new low to hold its own for at least a few months. But then this post just pulled the bar even further downwards into the neo-shahib moral morass. Yet I doubt we will see blatantly racists posts like the above deleted by George's minions. Once again George...Chaiyo!

Not so sure an observation about the general level of intelligence of most Thai people can be construed as racist. Harsh yes. Racist, no. I love the Thai people. They have many wonderful qualities. But generally speaking, intelligence is not amongst them.

[F1fanatic]

The nation was cursed with a terribly poor genetic gene pool. It is that simple.

Crikey, it was only a few weeks ago that I felt that a ThaiVisa thread had hit a new low and I was expecting that new low to hold its own for at least a few months. But then this post just pulled the bar even further downwards into the neo-shahib moral morass. Yet I doubt we will see blatantly racists posts like the above deleted by George's minions. Once again George...Chaiyo!

The post should have been deleted as, I gather, officialdom does check out TV. Presumably the poster is unaware of this.

[ding]

I'm curious what caused it. Smoking while filling the tank or bonking a valve with a hammer.

Class 1 Division 1 Hazardous Locations require expensive electrical fittings. Inspections are a pain in the arse, but very needed.

Would never have classed a swimming pool as class 1, div. 2

Just the area of potentially explosive or combustible mixing. And Div. 2 assumes a certain number of hours the containers are open/substance(s) being worked.

Chlorine+Acid=Chlorine Gas

Different types of Chlorine need to be kept seperate when in concentrated forms.

Just the bass-akwards method of mixing water into chemical - rather than adding small amounts of chemical to large amounts of water - can make a day go bad.

Water is usually safe, I'm with ya in spirit. As long as slow disolving acid or whatever isn't tossed in the pool and swimmers hop in soon after.

[chrisinth]

I'm curious what caused it. Smoking while filling the tank or bonking a valve with a hammer.

Class 1 Division 1 Hazardous Locations require expensive electrical fittings. Inspections are a pain in the arse, but very needed.

Would never have classed a swimming pool as class 1, div. 2

Just the area of potentially explosive or combustible mixing. And Div. 2 assumes a certain number of hours the containers are open/substance(s) being worked.

Chlorine+Acid=Chlorine Gas

Different types of Chlorine need to be kept seperate when in concentrated forms.

Just the bass-akwards method of mixing water into chemical - rather than adding small amounts of chemical to large amounts of water - can make a day go bad.

Water is usually safe, I'm with ya in spirit. As long as slow disolving acid or whatever isn't tossed in the pool and swimmers hop in soon after.

K, agree in basics. (Its the last line of the description that is important to make said location safe.

BTW, 100% of all statistics are numbers.

Class I, Division 2 Location

A location

(1) in which volatile flammable liquids or flammable gases are handled, processed, or used, but in which the liquids, vapors, or gases will normally be confined within closed containers or closed systems from which they can escape only in case of accidental rupture or breakdown of such containers or systems, or in case of abnormal operation of equipment;

(2) in which ignitable concentrations of gases or vapors are normally prevented by positive mechanical ventilation and might become hazardous through failure or abnormal operation of the ventilating equipment; or

(3) that is adjacent to a Class I, Division 1 location and to which ignitable concentrations of gases or vapors might occasionally be communicated unless such communication is prevented by adequate positive-pressure ventilation from a source of clean air and effective safeguards against ventilation failure are provided.

Electrical conduits and their associated enclosures separated from process fluids by a single seal or barrier are classified as a Class I, Division 2 location if the outside of the conduit and enclosures is a nonhazardous (unclassified) location.