The Three Mothers United In Grief After Their Their Sons Were Killed In Horrific Bus Crash During Thailand Holiday

[Boater]

The three mothers united in grief after their their sons were killed in horrific bus crash during Thailand holiday

After three teenage friends died just days into a dream trip, their mothers discovered the shocking truth about Thailand’s ‘perilous’ record on bus safety. Here they talk to Catherine O’Brien about their campaign for stricter controls and to raise awareness among other young travellers

Amanda Bean was getting ready for work when, from her bedroom window, she saw a police car pull up on the street below. Intrigued, but not initially alarmed, she assumed the officers must be there to see one of her neighbours. A couple of minutes later she looked again and noticed they were still sitting in their car. ‘It was only afterwards I realised why,’ she says. ‘They would have been coordinating with the others to ensure that we were all told at the same time.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1mpvDbUBY

Edited February 19, 2012 by webfact
reduced to fair use /Admin

[IanForbes]

I've traveled a fair bit by bus in Thailand, but mostly to do a visa run. I've also seen MANY busses while riding or driving in Thailand. My experience is the better known bus lines (Green bus) are mostly safe, but it only takes ONE bad driver to kill a bunch of people. I see broken down busses all the time and I've been on busses that pass slower moving vehicle on blind corners of narrow, two lane roads. I've been forced off the road by busses while riding my motorcycle, but that happens more often with those terrible silver vans.

[DP25]

The primary reason for the difference in road death rates, 12,000 in Thailand vs 3,000 in the UK, is the huge number of motorcycles in Thailand, which are responsible for the vast majority of deaths. They sell more motorcycles in one month in Thailand than they do in one year in the UK. There are more new motorcycles added to the roads each year in Thailand than there are in total in the UK. Lots of motorcycles means lots of deaths, especially here where many people don't like to wear helmets.

[tinfoilhat]

i wont let any of my family here thai family take a cheap bus after my own experiences both on one, and on the road near one.

nor will i let them drive with people i dont trust completely behind the wheel, especially during festivals or national holidays.

road travel in thailand can be a false economy of the very worst kind.

condolences to the families

[sirineou]

Even though we own a car, many times when traveling from KKC to BKK we opt for the bus. 5 hrs by car 6 hrs by bus, but the bus is convenient, cheap, and safe, they give you bottled water and snacks, a chance to take a nap, or watch a bad Thai movie, and not have to deal with BKK traffic . I never had a problem, never seen a problem.

Just my experience.

[tinfoilhat]

up to you.

would i rather spend 5 hours in a vehicle i control`, or 5 hours in a vehicle someone else controls?

my car is more than large enough to accommodate snacks, and any trip longer, i could fly.

[hotandhumid]

Even though we own a car, many times when traveling from KKC to BKK we opt for the bus. 5 hrs by car 6 hrs by bus, but the bus is convenient, cheap, and safe, they give you bottled water and snacks, a chance to take a nap, or watch a bad Thai movie, and not have to deal with BKK traffic . I never had a problem, never seen a problem.

Just my experience.

Snacks and water eh? Well that's me sold.

[sirineou]

up to you.

would i rather spend 5 hours in a vehicle i control`, or 5 hours in a vehicle someone else controls?

my car is more than large enough to accommodate snacks, and any trip longer, i could fly.

There are advantages to taking the bus and there are disadvantages, loss of control is a disadvantage,I am sure there are others, I mentioned some of the advantages.

My point is not about the advantages or disadvantages of bus travel, but about it's safety in Thailand, and in my experience

it has being very safe, others might have a different experience.

[OZEMADE]

The majority, I repeat the majority of buses in Thailand are rattle/death traps. The ones in Bangkok are full of rust that have been patched with fibreglass and none of these have good brakes if any and are old smokies. The rest of the highway coaches are in better shape, but the brakes leave a bit to be desired as most drivers are inexperienced and ride the brakes, instead of gearing down or using the engine brake or the exhaust brake. Most of these drivers dont know what these braking systems are there for. How often do you read where they have run out of brakes on a descent and crashed or gone off the side of a mountain because of speed and not to mention overtaking up hill to pass a semi or slower bus on a blind bend over double white lines. The speed limit for any coach on the highway is 80KPH, including under escort of the Police.

I wonder if these families were offered a few hundred thousand Baht for the death of their kids. Not likley.

Edited February 19, 2012 by OZEMADE

[MAJIC]

Even though we own a car, many times when traveling from KKC to BKK we opt for the bus. 5 hrs by car 6 hrs by bus, but the bus is convenient, cheap, and safe, they give you bottled water and snacks, a chance to take a nap, or watch a bad Thai movie, and not have to deal with BKK traffic . I never had a problem, never seen a problem.

Just my experience.

I think you have been very fortunate,never to have seen a "problem" (accident) personally I have seen many coaches which have been laying horizontal,at the side of the road,and in ditches.The same as Sugar Cane lorries,which are often ridiculously overloaded.

I have a Thai friend who has a Coach rebuilding business,not far from Bangkok,who's only business is rebuilding coaches that have been in a roll or other type of accident,at any one time he has space for six coaches to be repaired,and five people working on them full time.

All in various stages of repair,one goes out and another comes in,before they go out in their nice new paintwork,you would never imagine they would ever be Roadworthy again.And I don't suppose you have ever seen the top half of a coach cut off,prior to the rebuild either?

His business never stops for lack of work,and the only thing that stops him from expanding is the lack of space! and of course there must be other businesses doing similar work. Having spent a large part of my working life in quality Engineering,if I could see beyond the pretty flamboyant spray paintwork,I would never enter a Coach or Bus ever again.

Sorry I can't agree with you that Buses are safe! it's the last resort of travel for me,but don't take my word for it.

Edited February 19, 2012 by MAJIC

[Boater]

everytime i have travelled on a bus, they do drive crazy and at extreme speed !, also had many a time a bus overtake me on blind bends ect ect

but it is down to training !, why cant they ensure these drivers are properly trained and licenced to drive, plus limit the speed of the buses?? ... so simple but would never happen

[theblether]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

[DP25]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

[phuturatica]

There have been times when I'm sat up bolt straight, holding onto the seat, sweating with fear as I am watching my bus or silver minibus van go at ridiculous speed and overtake everything that gets in its way. There have been times when I have got off the bus at the service station and tried to tell them to slow down but they just laugh at me and ignore me.

I hate the roads in Thailand. I hate the way some of them drive. I wouldn't even get my own car or motorcycle here because its other people on the roads that I don't trust, not myself.

My condolences to the families who lost their loved ones. It's good that they're trying to do something about road safety in Thailand or at least raise awareness in it.

[apetley]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

Thai road accident death stats are unreliable at best as they only include those who die at the scene.

A recent UN report suggests the true figure is nearer 25000.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[Thaddeus]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

Thai road accident death stats are unreliable at best as they only include those who die at the scene.

A recent UN report suggests the true figure is nearer 25000.

Agree with that.

Add a high percentage of the number of people who die in hospital to the official number of road deaths and you will probably get a number that is more representative of the truth.

[aussiebebe]

I felt awful reading about the poor women's grief at losing their sons and feel their action to get the UK to review their advice is appropriate. However, where would it end? Many Thai drivers (taxi, tuk tuk, motorbike, bus, van included) are high on drink or drugs some of the time, most even openly stop at those little shacks to enjoy shots of spirits; would you encourage tourists to either walk, BTS, MRT or fly? You have to put these things into perspective; India is extremely dangerous - I saw ten people in a tuk tuk on a motorway (three on the roof) - Thailand is nowhere near that bad, in fairness.

[Soutpeel]

Not that I have ever taken a bus in Thailand, but while driving in Thailand, I feel the problem is not the buses themselves but the f*kcing loonies driving them, what is going through their minds while driving on a motorway at 120-140km and overtaking other vehicles, blocking the outside lane or have 2 or 3 "disco" buses in convoy travelling at + 100km/hr

The BiB see this going on and just let them do it.....they should be pulling them over and arresting them on the spot for endangering peoples lives.

Anyone thinking of traveling on a Thai bus of any description were they can get upto speeds over 60km, do so at your own peril...

[Ulysses G.]

up to you.

would i rather spend 5 hours in a vehicle i control`, or 5 hours in a vehicle someone else controls?

The problem is that most of the other drivers will be Thais. I usually rather have a Thai driver in Thailand as they pretty much know what to expect.

[tinfoilhat]

First, I dont see Thai drivers on thai roads as a problem, i see it as a necessity of road travel in Thailand.

Second, the drivers of the truck and the Surin bus that recently collided were Thai. Despite that, it seems they were caught by surprise.

I could not care less where my driver comes from if they are a good driver.

My friends and i have a couple of Minivan drivers we favor,and they are excellent drivers, as a result we have been using them for years and they are in very high demand, not because they know what to expect, but because they are cautious.

But i still much prefer to be behind the wheel. It is the ONLY way i know what to expect.

Edited February 20, 2012 by tinfoilhat

[DP25]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

Thai road accident death stats are unreliable at best as they only include those who die at the scene.

A recent UN report suggests the true figure is nearer 25000.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

No they're not, the statistics included seriously injured and that's why I included them in my post. Even if EVERY single one of the seriously injured were to die, which is not going to be the case, it is not remotely close to the wild speculation of over 20,000. The original source of that speculation was the SAME source I posted, but 8 years out of date and assuming every single seriously inured died. International statistics for Thailand are usually completely wrong or out of date at best.

[elwood]

Not that I have ever taken a bus in Thailand, but while driving in Thailand, I feel the problem is not the buses themselves but the f*kcing loonies driving them, what is going through their minds while driving on a motorway at 120-140km and overtaking other vehicles, blocking the outside lane or have 2 or 3 "disco" buses in convoy travelling at + 100km/hr

The BiB see this going on and just let them do it.....they should be pulling them over and arresting them on the spot for endangering peoples lives.

Anyone thinking of traveling on a Thai bus of any description were they can get upto speeds over 60km, do so at your own peril...

I agree that there are plenty of pisspoor and dangerous bus drivers, but I've been travelling with NCA for almost 20 years, never a problem; same goes for several family members, so you can't condemn all.

[theblether]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

Yes I agree with your arithmetic, however I have seen reports that only people who die at the scene are counted. Incidentally, if you take your figures as correct, that means that less than 3,000 people a year die in Thailand die as a result of non - motorcycle vehicular accidents? That would make it just about the safest place on Earth for non motorcycle related vehicular deaths.......does that sound even remotely right to you?

I say no way........the books are cooked.

[theblether]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

I've just had a look.........

http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/reported-road-casualties-gb-main-results-2010/

Have a look at particular at the road death / serious accident ratio on that report. It shows a ratio of approx 10 serious injuries to every road death.

The idea that the serious injury rate in Thailand is half of the death rate is palpable nonsense and that in itself demonstrates how wrong the Thai statistics are.

[necronx99]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

I've just had a look.........

http://www.dft.gov.u...n-results-2010/

Have a look at particular at the road death / serious accident ratio on that report. It shows a ratio of approx 10 serious injuries to every road death.

The idea that the serious injury rate in Thailand is half of the death rate is palpable nonsense and that in itself demonstrates how wrong the Thai statistics are.

The fact that most people ride bikes, and therefore most accidents involve bikes probabaly means that your chance of surviving an accident is much lower than the UK where if you have an accident that results in injury it is in a safer modern car, you are also likely to recieve competent medical treatment in a timely fashion at the scene.

There are not less serious injuries per acident in Thailand but more deaths per accident.

[DP25]

I think the motorcycle argument is a red herring.........and I think the road death figure in Thailand is false. I think the road death total in Thailand is far higher. If it's not, it's a miracle.

I'll go even further.....It wouldn't amaze me if the road death figure in Thailand was 12,000 for motorcyclists alone. In fact I remember reading a figure two years ago that there were 27 motorcyclist deaths in Thailand per day. I wish I could remember where I read that. Again, quite frankly, that wouldn't amaze me. On top of that there are reports out there that people who die after being removed from the scene of the accident are not counted in the figures.

There are more than 12,000 deaths on the road in Thailand every year.....there is no doubt about it.

27 motorcycle deaths per day would equal 9855 deaths per year. Past articles have said that motorcycles account for over 70% of traffic deaths in Thailand so that probably was true a few years ago

Anyway the 12,000 figure is out of date now. Statistics for 2011 are 9205 deaths and 4093 serious injuries. Up slightly from 7468 deaths the year before but down significantly from a few years before that

http://statistic.pol.../traff_main.htm

I've just had a look.........

http://www.dft.gov.u...n-results-2010/

Have a look at particular at the road death / serious accident ratio on that report. It shows a ratio of approx 10 serious injuries to every road death.

The idea that the serious injury rate in Thailand is half of the death rate is palpable nonsense and that in itself demonstrates how wrong the Thai statistics are.

The fact that most people ride bikes, and therefore most accidents involve bikes probabaly means that your chance of surviving an accident is much lower than the UK where if you have an accident that results in injury it is in a safer modern car, you are also likely to recieve competent medical treatment in a timely fashion at the scene.

There are not less serious injuries per acident in Thailand but more deaths per accident.

In addition to Thais being less likely to survive, the UK probably has a broader definition of seriously injured and includes injuries Thais would not include as 'serious' and would be classified as light injuries, or not recorded at all if they just walked away from accident.

As for the previous post about 3000 car deaths and that being impossible as it would be one of the safest rates in the world, that is countered by the link he posted. According to his link in the UK in 2010 there were only 835 car deaths, out of a total of 1850 traffic deaths (the 3000 traffic deaths in the UK used in the OP article is out of date too). If there are 3000 car deaths in Thailand it is still several times higher than the UK.