New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[bigbamboo]

the question is: ...what if your THAI WIFE DIES ?...they will kick you out of the country ? what happens to your children? have to take them out of their school and move back to your home country...?

I too would like to know the answer regarding this scenario. I built a home here and have children - a non-biological daughter (10) and a biological son (2). I've been here for over a decade and married for most of that time. I have NOTHING in my home country (USA). So, if my wife dies before me, they expect me to leave my daughter here and take my son back to America - to nothing? That seems heartless and stupid. No, excuse me, STOOOPID! Surely, there must be exceptions allowed...

@SNGLIFE...... my situation is not too disimilar from yours. To the best of my knowledge any property can be placed into a Thai child's name with you named as it's legal guardian. As the child's legal guardian you will be able to remain in Thailand so long as the wife's relatives do not lodge any claims or objections.

Edited February 21, 2012 by bigbamboo

[chris1970]

The rules for a visa have changed, not the rules for an extension of stay.

Regarding the new rules for a visa, the legality can be questioned as a father no longer can visit Thailand to see his child, unless married. That might be a violation of the rights of the child.

but if you stop your extension for any reason you wont be allowed a new visa without being married to the mother ?

you can always visit thatiland for 30 days visa exempt.

maybe there's more details missing ?

You can still convert to a stay for reason of being a family memebr of a Thai.

so you can come to thailand on a 30 day visa expempt and convert to a type-O - but i assume you can only get a single 3 month ? or when they convert do you just get the remainder of the original 30 day ? i suppose that's useful if your legal father.

[Mario2008]

I am curious here, everyone is talking about farangs dads and how they are making it more difficult for them to have access to thier kids. What about a farang woman who has a child to a Thai man? I know that there are a few in Thailand. Is she subject to the same rules and may have to abandon her baby in Thailand if she can not get the visa? Doe's she have to go through the court system to prove that she is the mother?

A mother doen't need to proof parenthood, as when a child is born the mother is known but the question is who the father is. If married, the law will asume the husband is the fahter, if not married who the fahter is must be established.

The new rules will also apply to a woman. But as said, the rules for an extension of stay have not changed. Only the issueing of a visa itself.

[Mario2008]

The rules for a visa have changed, not the rules for an extension of stay.

Regarding the new rules for a visa, the legality can be questioned as a father no longer can visit Thailand to see his child, unless married. That might be a violation of the rights of the child.

but if you stop your extension for any reason you wont be allowed a new visa without being married to the mother ?

you can always visit thatiland for 30 days visa exempt.

maybe there's more details missing ?

You can still convert to a stay for reason of being a family memebr of a Thai.

so you can come to thailand on a 30 day visa expempt and convert to a type-O - but i assume you can only get a single 3 month ? or when they convert do you just get the remainder of the original 30 day ? i suppose that's useful if your legal father.

When you convert you get 90 days and after 60 days you can apply for a 1 year extension of stay.

[somchai69]

What an archaic way of looking at matters

You must be married to spend time with your children.

How about if you are divorced?

The Australians take the opposite view

A friend applied for a 2 month tourist visa to visit his son

the embassy told him he can have the longer 3 month visa

so he accepted.

[chris1970]

The rules for a visa have changed, not the rules for an extension of stay.

Regarding the new rules for a visa, the legality can be questioned as a father no longer can visit Thailand to see his child, unless married. That might be a violation of the rights of the child.

but if you stop your extension for any reason you wont be allowed a new visa without being married to the mother ?

you can always visit thatiland for 30 days visa exempt.

maybe there's more details missing ?

You can still convert to a stay for reason of being a family memebr of a Thai.

is there a limit to these conversions ?

i'm currently in thailand and my type-O is due to finish shortly, would i be able to do a border run and then convert that into a type-O and then extend 60 days just by showing birth cert. ?

would i be able to repeat this process after 5 months ?

do the conversions cost the same as a single entry and any extra paperwork required ?

i'm not legal father and obtaining that will be difficult,

[softgeorge]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

[mussen]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

If they don't issue you with the visa, just fly back, get a 30 day entry at the airport, you can then extend that for 60 days. Or else convert that 30 day to a non-o back here in BKK. Gives you some time to sort things out.

Edited February 21, 2012 by mussen

[hotandhumid]

Can somebody answer this please....I have 2 children here both with the same thai woman, I understand because we are not married I am not legally acknowledged as the father in the courts eyes...it's been said on here that if you are married then the courts will accept it....my question is do you have to be married before the child has been born or if i was to get married sometime soon would that still be accepted as being all ok?

[TimTang]

The rules for a visa have changed, not the rules for an extension of stay.

Regarding the new rules for a visa, the legality can be questioned as a father no longer can visit Thailand to see his child, unless married. That might be a violation of the rights of the child.

but if you stop your extension for any reason you wont be allowed a new visa without being married to the mother ?

you can always visit thatiland for 30 days visa exempt.

maybe there's more details missing ?

You can still convert to a stay for reason of being a family memebr of a Thai.

is there a limit to these conversions ?

i'm currently in thailand and my type-O is due to finish shortly, would i be able to do a border run and then convert that into a type-O and then extend 60 days just by showing birth cert. ?

would i be able to repeat this process after 5 months ?

do the conversions cost the same as a single entry and any extra paperwork required ?

i'm not legal father and obtaining that will be difficult,

The birth certificate is not enough, you have to provide the legal documents proving you are the father which will cost about 30 thousand in legal fees if the child is 7 or older. I'm not sure how successful you'll be if, like you say, you are not the legal father.

If you do it quickly you may be able to do it with your existing visa. It costs 1,900 for each extension.

[Redhawk]

Hi

Has someone been lately been to Laos and applied for a Non Immigrant-O-? Except for birth certificate, paternity certificate with parental rights by a Thai Court, pictures and 5.000 Baht do they ask for more docs like child ID, tabian baan/houesepaper or bank statements at the Thai Consulate in Laos?

Would be glad someone could gave a hint. Having two own children, 7 and 12, not married to their mother and did get Non-O- on that for eleven years by now without problems till now, in Cambodia, Singapore and Germany. Likely to apply there/Laos in a couple of days. Someone seeing problems? Thx.

[inthepink]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

This is a little melodramatic - how hard would it be for you to apply for a double-entry tourist visa and then get married while you are here? You would have 6 months in which to do so.

[TimTang]

Hi

Has someone been lately been to Laos and applied for a Non Immigrant-O-? Except for birth certificate, paternity certificate with parental rights by a Thai Court, pictures and 5.000 Baht do they ask for more docs like child ID, tabian baan/houesepaper or bank statements at the Thai Consulate in Laos?

Would be glad someone could gave a hint. Having two own children, 7 and 12, not married to their mother and did get Non-O- on that for eleven years by now without problems till now, in Cambodia, Singapore and Germany. Likely to apply there/Laos in a couple of days. Someone seeing problems? Thx.

Judging from this memo and the fact that others on this forum have found that this is indeed an amendment to the existing immigration law, I would seriously doubt that you will be successful at getting a one year visa based on support.

I think there will soon be a lot of very unhappy families in Thailand and a lot of very unhappy fathers on one-way flights to their country of origin.

Edited February 21, 2012 by TimTang

[softgeorge]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

If they don't issue you with the visa, just fly back, get a 30 day entry at the airport, you can then extend that for 60 days. Or else convert that 30 day to a non-o back here in BKK. Gives you some time to sort things out.

We went through all the court system and just finnished everything last week to be legally recognised as the father. My last requirement is that I MUST leave the country and return on a non imm O visa which I can then extend for 1 yr. I can't get a tourist visa as they will not accept that. We have sorted everything out to last detail with our lawyer, immigration and the courts and were set to go. The spanner in the works now is that I cannot get the required visa now to extend because of the changes. This has blown everything we paid and worked for over the last 3 1/2 months out of the water.

[Jayman]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

This is a little melodramatic - how hard would it be for you to apply for a double-entry tourist visa and then get married while you are here? You would have 6 months in which to do so.

I see no reason why you can't just enter the country and then convert your visa in country and apply for extension based on support of Thai child. I guess since you're getting the advice from a lawyer you must be exploring all options.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Jayman

[mussen]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

If they don't issue you with the visa, just fly back, get a 30 day entry at the airport, you can then extend that for 60 days. Or else convert that 30 day to a non-o back here in BKK. Gives you some time to sort things out.

We went through all the court system and just finnished everything last week to be legally recognised as the father. My last requirement is that I MUST leave the country and return on a non imm O visa which I can then extend for 1 yr. I can't get a tourist visa as they will not accept that. We have sorted everything out to last detail with our lawyer, immigration and the courts and were set to go. The spanner in the works now is that I cannot get the required visa now to extend because of the changes. This has blown everything we paid and worked for over the last 3 1/2 months out of the water.

No need for a tourist visa, get a 30 day visa exempt when you fly back in.

[TimTang]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

If they don't issue you with the visa, just fly back, get a 30 day entry at the airport, you can then extend that for 60 days. Or else convert that 30 day to a non-o back here in BKK. Gives you some time to sort things out.

We went through all the court system and just finnished everything last week to be legally recognised as the father. My last requirement is that I MUST leave the country and return on a non imm O visa which I can then extend for 1 yr. I can't get a tourist visa as they will not accept that. We have sorted everything out to last detail with our lawyer, immigration and the courts and were set to go. The spanner in the works now is that I cannot get the required visa now to extend because of the changes. This has blown everything we paid and worked for over the last 3 1/2 months out of the water.

No need for a tourist visa, get a 30 day visa exempt when you fly back in.

I don't think that will work. I did the exact same thing he is doing and the immigration officer informed me I had to get a 90 day non "O" support visa, then extend it. At that time you didn't even need proof of funds in the bank or income. That all changed in Oct. 2007 which was the last major amendment to immigration laws.

[softgeorge]

This whole thing has now got my wife in tears, tonight we will st down with our son and try to explain to him that dad may not be back after my trip to K.L. Really do not know how to tell him that it may be a year or so before we see each other again for a couple of days. We played the game and jumped through all the hoops on command and just as we were about to score they took away the goal posts. Now it looks like we will have to try and marry with me in Australia and her in Thailand and the thing that concerns me about that is they will remove the goal posts again.

If they don't issue you with the visa, just fly back, get a 30 day entry at the airport, you can then extend that for 60 days. Or else convert that 30 day to a non-o back here in BKK. Gives you some time to sort things out.

We went through all the court system and just finnished everything last week to be legally recognised as the father. My last requirement is that I MUST leave the country and return on a non imm O visa which I can then extend for 1 yr. I can't get a tourist visa as they will not accept that. We have sorted everything out to last detail with our lawyer, immigration and the courts and were set to go. The spanner in the works now is that I cannot get the required visa now to extend because of the changes. This has blown everything we paid and worked for over the last 3 1/2 months out of the water.

No need for a tourist visa, get a 30 day visa exempt when you fly back in.

That will not work. My defacto, lawyer, immigration official and myself all sat down at the table and crossed all the "t's" dotted the "i's" and I must leave and return with a non imm "O" visa which will then be extended for 1 yr (giving me 15 mths). We have checked and doubled checked.

[mussen]

That will not work. My defacto, lawyer, immigration official and myself all sat down at the table and crossed all the "t's" dotted the "i's" and I must leave and return with a non imm "O" visa which will then be extended for 1 yr (giving me 15 mths). We have checked and doubled checked.

It will work, you will get a total of 3 months from it.

You won't be able to extend it for 1 year though, but you should be able to convert it here to a non-o which then can be extended for 1 year, perhaps someone with first hand experience can confirm this?

Edited February 21, 2012 by mussen

[AGareth2]

maybe we should wait and see if anyone is refused

[chooka]

That will not work. My defacto, lawyer, immigration official and myself all sat down at the table and crossed all the "t's" dotted the "i's" and I must leave and return with a non imm "O" visa which will then be extended for 1 yr (giving me 15 mths). We have checked and doubled checked.

It will work, you will get a total of 3 months from it.

You won't be able to extend it for 1 year though, but you should be able to convert it here to a non-o which then can be extended for 1 year, perhaps someone with first hand experience can confirm this?

Maybe he could sit down with an immigration official and lawyer who have 1st hand experience at it.......... and how can he convert it to a non imm O if they will not issue a non imm O? Isn't that what this topic is about. Maybe ignore advice from proffessionals and take a punt on advice from the man in the street.

Sorry but not having a dig at you...

Edited February 21, 2012 by chooka

[StateSix]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

[mussen]

That will not work. My defacto, lawyer, immigration official and myself all sat down at the table and crossed all the "t's" dotted the "i's" and I must leave and return with a non imm "O" visa which will then be extended for 1 yr (giving me 15 mths). We have checked and doubled checked.

It will work, you will get a total of 3 months from it.

You won't be able to extend it for 1 year though, but you should be able to convert it here to a non-o which then can be extended for 1 year, perhaps someone with first hand experience can confirm this?

Maybe he could sit down with an immigration official and lawyer who have 1st hand experience at it..........

I doubt there are many lawyers or immigration officials who have 1st hand experience at applying for a visa and entering the country then extending it.

[MANICMINER]

Softgeorge,

if they are insisting that you have a non 'o', then you should still try a few consulates in the region, because consulates interpret rules differently, and change rules at their own pace. the original notice is from a consulate in Hull (UK), so i think they may still issue you with the correct visa at KL. If they don't, then try Savannakhet in Lao - they are very relaxed there. but do it soon before all the consulates change their rules.

[StateSix]

That will not work. My defacto, lawyer, immigration official and myself all sat down at the table and crossed all the "t's" dotted the "i's" and I must leave and return with a non imm "O" visa which will then be extended for 1 yr (giving me 15 mths). We have checked and doubled checked.

Is the non imm 'O' visa not required purely to finalise the legal registration process for your son? If the KL embassy refuses to issue that visa, then you will still be able to apply for a tourist visa, or get the 30 day visa exempt stamp at the airport. You could then get married in Thailand and re-apply for the no imm 'O' based on marriage. You would then also automatically become the legally recognised father.

It is not an ideal solution as you have already spent money on the initial application, but the end result will be the same.

[hotandhumid]

Bottom line is that nobody really needs a visa anywy, just fly to cambodia every 30 days and get another 30 days on arrival coming back in...rinse and repeat indefinitly...

[chooka]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

A lot of people have families and are not married, the same as other countries many live in defacto relationships. Those on retirement visa's are generally the elderly who do not have young children. I think this may effect more people than you think.

[hotandhumid]

If you were to get married but do NOT have an existing non 'o' visa, say you just a 30 day tourist visa, does that matter when applying for one after getting married..?

[ALFREDO]

===To be eligible to apply for this type of visa you must also be married to the mother of the child and have an official marriage certificate." =

So, if above is true, what does a DNA Test help? What does it help, that I am or try to get my papers in Order to be a legal father to my child?

In Nov. 2009 as far as I remember, that Non Immigrant O Visa for Falang fathers of thai children was established and now,just 2 years later it gets abolished> What a farce and Nonsense! Crazy

That the Thai GF confirms, that you take care your child, live with it and so on, is not from importance? But if you are legally married and not take care your child, not live with it, you get your Non Immigrant O?

[venturalaw]

How many people is this really going to affect?

If you live and work here you should have a work permit so can get a visa based on that.

If you are retired you can get a visa based on that.

If you are married, you can get a visa based on that.

If you do not live in Thailand, but want to visit your children you can apply for a tourist visa to enter Thailand and do so.

The only people who will be affected, as far as I can see, are those who have retired early or have a sufficient income stream to enable them not to work, but are too young to meet the retirement visa requirements.

I know someone who is in his 30's, has a child with his Thai girlfriend and supports his gf, child, and gf's parents via rental income from overseas. He is left with 2 options - boarder runs every 2 weeks until that option is eliminated, or marry girlfriend. Forced marriages are successful even less often than those not forced.

What is a concern for many I'm certain this does effect is when the Thai mother of the child and foreign father split up. If father wants to continue to be involved in child's life, he will have to remove the child from Thailand, and therefore child will be raised without mother, or father leaves without child and child is raised without father. Either way it is disastrous for the child. Once again, the Thai government not thinking, just doing.