New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[AngryParent]

Has even 1 Thai embassy confirmed this so called "rule change"? I have been told by the NY Thai Embassy that nothing has changed. It has always been the case that consuls can interpret the rules how they want. If Hull is now not accepting thai birth certs to prove the father/child relationship then either goto a diff embassy or personally contact the Hull consulate with your case and find out what you can do. You are responsible for children after all and yet all you guys are doing is whining like babies. Within a few hours of reading the OP I was on the phone with my officials that conformed that I was in the clear. This is why I have tried to calm others down but it seems some want to believe bad thais are at it again to rip their children away from them.

Please someone post the new immigration rules for visa issuance of non-imm visa's on the basis of parentage and then we can act accordingly. Oh that's right, nothing has been officially changed.

I am very sorry to say but you lost your credibility yesterday when you went around saying that the letter from the UK consul was a fake and the guy did not work there. Then magically you claimed to "send" an email to the head of the New York embassy/consul at 9 O'clock at NIGHT their time and get a magical response shortly after that.

Hot air springs to mind!

I am in K.L at the moment and will be at the embassy at 9 a.m in the morning (8. a.m thai time) and should have some answer by midday. I am applying for that exact vsa.

Wish you all the best! I think at present I can safely say that all eyes are on you!

[chris1970]

I change 7 odd years ago from whatever visa it was I had....had to do the 90 day runs....to support of thai child...did it in Bangkok.

Still not answering the question clearly, do you do border runs or 90 day address reports at immigration?

The gentleman mentioned above is applying for a visa, not an extension of stay, and he may not even qualify for the extension, so may not have a choice.

he probably converted a tourist visa or visa exempt etc inside thailand to a type - O and then extends it every year,

if the guy in KL is unsuccessful he can fly back to thailand and get a 30 day visa exempt and try to convert that and maybe he will get lucky and can extend that with his petition and 400k in the bank (maybe an idea to put money in bank asap).

last resort is to just extend 60 days with a birth cert. which will give enough time to arrange a wedding - if he wants to live in thailand long term easily,

the potential problem i can see is if people let there extensions lapse or make a mistake and have to get a new type -O if they aren't married could be trouble,

also who's to say the rules wont change again and you have to be married to extend also.

[NanLaew]

softgeorge will get the visa, no question. It is amazing that whenever a new inconsistency with interpretation or application of some Thai laws or rules becomes known, there's this huge "<deleted>?!" outcry from people that should know better. Apart from the odd newbie, we should all know by now that there never has been, nor ever will be any consistency in anything relating to life in LOS.

[beechguy]

I change 7 odd years ago from whatever visa it was I had....had to do the 90 day runs....to support of thai child...did it in Bangkok.

Still not answering the question clearly, do you do border runs or 90 day address reports at immigration?

The gentleman mentioned above is applying for a visa, not an extension of stay, and he may not even qualify for the extension, so may not have a choice.

he probably converted a tourist visa or visa exempt etc inside thailand to a type - O and then extends it every year,

if the guy in KL is unsuccessful he can fly back to thailand and get a 30 day visa exempt and try to convert that and maybe he will get lucky and can extend that with his petition and 400k in the bank (maybe an idea to put money in bank asap).

last resort is to just extend 60 days with a birth cert. which will give enough time to arrange a wedding - if he wants to live in thailand long term easily,

the potential problem i can see is if people let there extensions lapse or make a mistake and have to get a new type -O if they aren't married could be trouble,

also who's to say the rules wont change again and you have to be married to extend also.

That was my point, I don't think it's likely the guy waltzed into immigraion and got a visa inside of Thailand without being involved in he extension process.

[chris1970]

Having divorced the mother of my kids and been given custody of my kids at a court of law in Thailand where would I stand with this new 'rule' ?

What happens if the mother dies and the father had to then take care?

Seems very strange to me. There must be more to this new rule.

i had an e-mail from the hull consulate yesterday and they said if you have sole custody you can still get a type-O visa no problem,

can i ask how you obtained sole custody and what's the process please.

[chris1970]

softgeorge will get the visa, no question. It is amazing that whenever a new inconsistency with interpretation or application of some Thai laws or rules becomes known, there's this huge "<deleted>?!" outcry from people that should know better. Apart from the odd newbie, we should all know by now that there never has been, nor ever will be any consistency in anything relating to life in LOS.

he maybe able to get a single 3 month type,

but many people will have a problem in the future now because they can't apply for a 1 year type- O from there home country of the u.k..

[Jayman]

softgeorge will get the visa, no question. It is amazing that whenever a new inconsistency with interpretation or application of some Thai laws or rules becomes known, there's this huge "<deleted>?!" outcry from people that should know better. Apart from the odd newbie, we should all know by now that there never has been, nor ever will be any consistency in anything relating to life in LOS.

he maybe able to get a single 3 month type,

but many people will have a problem in the future now because they can't apply for a 1 year type- O from there home country of the u.k..

If you can get a 3 month single entry non-imm o then you are golden. You just come to thailand and file for the 1 year extension when your 3 months is up. From then just keep extending every year and if you need to leave get a re-entry permit.

[Geekfreaklover]

Having divorced the mother of my kids and been given custody of my kids at a court of law in Thailand where would I stand with this new 'rule' ?

What happens if the mother dies and the father had to then take care?

Seems very strange to me. There must be more to this new rule.

i had an e-mail from the hull consulate yesterday and they said if you have sole custody you can still get a type-O visa no problem,

can i ask how you obtained sole custody and what's the process please.

Divorce at amphur or in court. Terms of the divorce, including custody of children, negotiated or decided by the family court. There is no way that I can see an unmarried or married father gaining sole custody.

This, as others have pointed out, seems to be an existing rule that is being tightened at one consul. There are other consuls, Jayman mentioned NY, that remain the same.

[chris1970]

Having divorced the mother of my kids and been given custody of my kids at a court of law in Thailand where would I stand with this new 'rule' ?

What happens if the mother dies and the father had to then take care?

Seems very strange to me. There must be more to this new rule.

i had an e-mail from the hull consulate yesterday and they said if you have sole custody you can still get a type-O visa no problem,

can i ask how you obtained sole custody and what's the process please.

Divorce at amphur or in court. Terms of the divorce, including custody of children, negotiated or decided by the family court. There is no way that I can see an unmarried or married father gaining sole custody.

This, as others have pointed out, seems to be an existing rule that is being tightened at one consul. There are other consuls, Jayman mentioned NY, that remain the same.

thanks for the info. i didn't think gaining sole custody would be straight forward.

yes the thai embassies in the u.k have been making type - O harder to obtain recently first they stopped for visiting friends and now un-married fathers.

it's obvious that with the introduction of postal applications has meant more people applying through the post some from thailand and breaking immigration rules.

it must be difficult for hull embassy to know which postal applications are genuine or not.

if you convert and apply inside thailand you can take the whole family with you.

[SNGLIFE]

So, anyone know what happens in a scenario wherein the wife dies leaving the foreign husband widower and their biological children behind? Can the guy stay on using the children for the visa, or must he (ugggh!) remarry?

[softgeorge]

I change 7 odd years ago from whatever visa it was I had....had to do the 90 day runs....to support of thai child...did it in Bangkok.

Still not answering the question clearly, do you do border runs or 90 day address reports at immigration?

The gentleman mentioned above is applying for a visa, not an extension of stay, and he may not even qualify for the extension, so may not have a choice.

he probably converted a tourist visa or visa exempt etc inside thailand to a type - O and then extends it every year,

if the guy in KL is unsuccessful he can fly back to thailand and get a 30 day visa exempt and try to convert that and maybe he will get lucky and can extend that with his petition and 400k in the bank (maybe an idea to put money in bank asap).

last resort is to just extend 60 days with a birth cert. which will give enough time to arrange a wedding - if he wants to live in thailand long term easily,

the potential problem i can see is if people let there extensions lapse or make a mistake and have to get a new type -O if they aren't married could be trouble,

also who's to say the rules wont change again and you have to be married to extend also.

That was my point, I don't think it's likely the guy waltzed into immigraion and got a visa inside of Thailand without being involved in he extension process.

I had a non O which was expiring and wanted to get a 1 yr ext for child and couldn't do in Chiangmai without being recognised by the courts as the father. I got a 90 day extention to go through the court system and then a 2nd 90 day extention as it was taking time. A 3rd extention was not permitted and I have to leave the country and get a new non imm O. I am doing it in K.L because I was informed by Chiangmai Imm and my lawyer that it is easier.

[Lite Beer]

UPDATE

An Update From The Royal Thai Consulate Hull.

"Update from the Royal Thai Consulate in Hull (UK).

Following my recent message on the topic ‘Non Imm Visa When You Have Thai Child’ I can now inform you that, non-immigrant visas can be granted to persons only if they can show that they have legal custody of the Thai child living in Thailand.”

Alan P Taylor

Hon Consul

[samran]

UPDATE

An Update From The Royal Thai Consulate Hull.

"Update from the Royal Thai Consulate in Hull (UK).

Following my recent message on the topic ‘Non Imm Visa When You Have Thai Child’ I can now inform you that, non-immigrant visas can be granted to persons only if they can show that they have legal custody of the Thai child living in Thailand.”

Alan P Taylor

Hon Consul

Regardless of marriage status?

[Mario2008]

Based on the text I suspect regardless of marriage status.

But also, when people are married, the father will automatically be the legal father.

[Lite Beer]

Regardless of marriage status?

It would appear so. They have updated their website.

Category “O”

--------------------------

1) Married to a Thai national

Evidence required:

a If married in Thailand:

Copies of Original Thai Marriage Certificate and Thai ID Card or Thai Passport.

b If married in UK:

Copies of Original UK Marriage Certificate and Thai ID Card or Thai Passport.

Please note that either a single or multiple entry visa can be granted in these circumstances.

or

2) Visiting Thai child living in Thailand

Evidence required

a Birth Certificate of child showing relationship

b Proof of having legal custody of the child

Please note that either a single or multiple entry visa can be granted in these circumstances.

or

3) Visiting non Thai family working/living in Thailand

Evidence required:

a Birth/Marriage Certificate to show relationship

b Letter from relative confirming they are in Thailand together with a copy of page

in their passport showing valid entry visa or a copy of their valid work permit..

Please note that either a single or multiple entry visa can be granted in these circumstances.

or

4) Volunteer Work

Evidence required:

a Sponsor Letter from Registered Charity.

Please note that either a single or multiple entry visa can be granted in these circumstances.

or

5) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner

Evidence required:

a Copy of Bank Statement showing receipt of State and/or Private Pension.

Please note that either a single or multiple entry visa can be granted in these circumstances.

or

6) Visiting Thailand as Retired Person aged 50 years and over

Evidence required:

a Copy of Bank Statement showing income of minimum £900 per month.

Please note that either a single or multiple entry visa can be granted in these circumstances.

[Mario2008]

That makes the visa policy in line with immigration policy for an extension.

[saengsureeya]

Will we now get more than 300 posts based on the change of a change of a visa-rule issued by the Royal Thai Consul in Hull ONLY?

As long as nobody is able to produce b/w information from the Thai Interior Minister or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding this issue, this is ONLY a "Hull" thing.

[shaunoro]

At least that is now clarified. Off to the Amphor i go.

[Mario2008]

Will we now get more than 300 posts based on the change of a change of a visa-rule issued by the Royal Thai Consul in Hull ONLY?

As long as nobody is able to produce b/w information from the Thai Interior Minister or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding this issue, this is ONLY a "Hull" thing.

The original message as in the OP was it was a rule for all consulates and the embassy in the UK.

Normally this kind of directives come from the Foreign Ministry, but it is not 100% sure that is here also the case.

The updated information will also be for all consulates and the embassy in the UK.

[chris1970]

what is legal custody ?

[Mario2008]

what is legal custody ?

When a baby is born, it is clear who the mother is. Who the father is remains the question. If the mother is married the the law will assume that the husband is the father of the child. It doesn't matter who makes the registration.

However, if the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption and the father being named on the the birth certificate is not enough. After all,anyone can be named on the birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing let alone agreeing. In that case the father has to legitimize the child, with which he acknowledge before the law that he is the father of the child.

For more information look here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

[samran]

I'm sure George is sending the Hull consul general a bottle of his finest champagne thanking him for web traffic many websites can only dream of

On a more serious note, the CG perhaps look for a new job in the tabloid papers. He's prematurely releasing visa guidance and he's far from spectacular in representing Thailand's interests. Which is his job.

[MANICMINER]

what is legal custody ?

When a baby is born, it is clear who the mother is. Who the father is remains the question. If the mother is married the the law will assume that the husband is the father of the child. It doesn't matter who makes the registration.

However, if the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption and the father being named on the the birth certificate is not enough. After all,anyone can be named on the birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing let alone agreeing. In that case the father has to legitimize the child, with which he acknowledge before the law that he is the father of the child.

For more information look here: http://www.thaivisa....ts-as-a-father/

so are you saying if the child is born whilst married, and the wife subsequently dies or you are divorced, Hull will accept the birth certificate and death/divorce certificate to get a non ''o visa?

[Mario2008]

In that case you are the legal father.

Don't know what proof is accepted.

[Jayman]

what is legal custody ?

When a baby is born, it is clear who the mother is. Who the father is remains the question. If the mother is married the the law will assume that the husband is the father of the child. It doesn't matter who makes the registration.

However, if the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption and the father being named on the the birth certificate is not enough. After all,anyone can be named on the birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing let alone agreeing. In that case the father has to legitimize the child, with which he acknowledge before the law that he is the father of the child.

For more information look here: http://www.thaivisa....ts-as-a-father/

so are you saying if the child is born whilst married, and the wife subsequently dies or you are divorced, Hull will accept the birth certificate and death/divorce certificate to get a non ''o visa?

As for what "Hull" will accept I really think you are best just emailing them and asking. No one but they can speak for what they will or will not accept from one day to the next. My protocol, is always to email all the consuls that I can deal with asking what they require for the visa I am looking for. Then I chose from the responses the one that best suits me and print out the email from them to include with any application I send them. This way it's clear that I am following the guidelines they sent me when I apply.

[softgeorge]

been to the Thai Embassy today in K.L to apply for the visa. The story is correct they will stop issuing the visa's to farangs based solely on being a parent. A birth certificate alone is not acceptable. I was asked if I was married to the mother and I said no. I was also asked about my relationship with my son. It appears that you will not have any problems if you can prove your relationship with the mother of the child, I presented a letter form my partner stating that we had been living as husband and wife (defacto) for 7 years and we both provide equal support to the child. I also prented a copy of her I.D card and house book along with the document stating that I have been legally recognised as the father. You would be in a even better position if you took the wife and child along with you but this is not always possible.

To cut the story short if you applying for the visa and present just a birth certificate you will not get it, the girl at the counter stated that this will be enforced from May.

They told me that they will issue me the visa based on all the combined evidence that I provided. So unless they changed thier minds in the next 24 hours I will collect it tomorrow afternoon.

[Jayman]

been to the Thai Embassy today in K.L to apply for the visa. The story is correct they will stop issuing the visa's to farangs based solely on being a parent. A birth certificate alone is not acceptable. I was asked if I was married to the mother and I said no. I was also asked about my relationship with my son. It appears that you will not have any problems if you can prove your relationship with the mother of the child, I presented a letter form my partner stating that we had been living as husband and wife (defacto) for 7 years and we both provide equal support to the child. I also prented a copy of her I.D card and house book along with the document stating that I have been legally recognised as the father. You would be in a even better position if you took the wife and child along with you but this is not always possible.

To cut the story short if you applying for the visa and present just a birth certificate you will not get it, the girl at the counter stated that this will be enforced from May.

They told me that they will issue me the visa based on all the combined evidence that I provided. So unless they changed thier minds in the next 24 hours I will collect it tomorrow afternoon.

Good one.. Congrats. I hope you feel a bit more relieved now.

[Lite Beer]

Good news for you this time.

looks like you just made it.

[Mario2008]

Congratulations and thanks for your report.

It confirms it is a new regulation from the Thai Foreign Ministry, so the new rule can be expected to be applied world wide.

[mussen]

been to the Thai Embassy today in K.L to apply for the visa. The story is correct they will stop issuing the visa's to farangs based solely on being a parent. A birth certificate alone is not acceptable. I was asked if I was married to the mother and I said no. I was also asked about my relationship with my son. It appears that you will not have any problems if you can prove your relationship with the mother of the child, I presented a letter form my partner stating that we had been living as husband and wife (defacto) for 7 years and we both provide equal support to the child. I also prented a copy of her I.D card and house book along with the document stating that I have been legally recognised as the father. You would be in a even better position if you took the wife and child along with you but this is not always possible.

To cut the story short if you applying for the visa and present just a birth certificate you will not get it, the girl at the counter stated that this will be enforced from May.

They told me that they will issue me the visa based on all the combined evidence that I provided. So unless they changed thier minds in the next 24 hours I will collect it tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for your quick report. So does that mean that after May, they will still issue a non-o based on being the father of a child 'as long as you have the legal docmentation'?