New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[lopburi3]

That would be because of legal fees for child under 7 years old who can not just declare at District Office and would vary I suspect.

[ALFREDO]

lopburi3

Thank you for Information, should be ok than, one of my boys already 7+ in my household.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Are they talking about a country where even the PM is not "officially" married?

What are you on about? The only reason anyone needs to get married is for legal/financial reasons, and that's exactly why so many hi-end Thai's don't, it's completely normal and accepted here.

If they put in regulations that made it advantageous to get marriages registered with the government, then they would.

In our case it's to our advantage to do so so, so you're stupid not to.

What's the point you're trying to make?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

That -legal custody- costs 10.000.- Baht + ? Why so expensive?

Depends on your situation - in my case it was so little I don't remember, the wife just signed the kids over to me in exchange for my letting her go - also agreeing to no alimony, left with the her personal property and that's it.

[ALFREDO]

BigJhonnyBKK, thank you for your Info,

-Lopburi3- clarified the situation also.

It seems it is the age of the child which makes the difference and if the GF, wife is willing to give you the Legal custody right.

[Mario2008]

That -legal custody- costs 10.000.- Baht + ? Why so expensive?

Depends on your situation - in my case it was so little I don't remember, the wife just signed the kids over to me in exchange for my letting her go - also agreeing to no alimony, left with the her personal property and that's it.

There is no alimony in Thailand, unless upon divorce you volentarily agree to it.

[Redhawk]

Hi

I got an extension on my NON-Immigrant -O- as of today for sixty days without a hassle in less than twentyfive minutes at Korat Immigration Office, (Dan Kwian, Imm. Div. 4 Nakhon Ratchasima).

I hold a Non-O- which was valid from 3.12.2010 to 2.12.2011 and I entered the Kingdom on the first of December 2011 which gave me another and last permission to stay for 90 days until the 28.02.2012. I prepared all paperwork in advance at home including the T.7 Form, the accompanying papers were as follows in form of a copy, except the passport lol, there was no request for the originals. Copies of birth certificate, paternity certificate, driver's license ( for proof of address ), visa and departure card and passport and one recent photo last but not least 1.900,- THB.

There was no request for a money i.e. an bank statement for these 60 days. No request for tabien baan or ID of the child or mother.

The officer told me preparing the same paperwork work applying for new NON-O- should work with

no problem due to his knowledge at chosen embassies around.

Providing the above paperwork and showing an additional bank statement about 400.000,- entitles to apply for 90 days of stay/extensions if holding a NON-O- valid one year/multiple entries which will be surely obtained, due to his words, providing the above.

No more need to leave the country each 90 days except once a year for new NON-O-.

I came along with the mother of our daughter, we are not married but she wasn't ask anything to proof at all.

So it is still possible to stay here as legal father and getting extensions. Hope it helps.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Redhawk

[Lite Beer]

^^^^ 400,000 baht in a Thai bank or 40,000 monthly income entitles you to apply for a 12 month extension of stay.

[samsiam]

Whats with the 'leave the country only once a year now' ??....I have not left for near 3 years now....before that was like 4 years or so.

[Mario2008]

You applied for a 60 day extension.

I'm not sure what a paternity certificate is. You will need proof you are the legal father, without that a 1 year extension will not be provided. If a paternity certificate is a court decision that you are the father, than that is fine. If it is only a DNA-test, it is not enough.

[Redhawk]

400.000,- Baht in the bank proofed by bank statement. Need to be shown every 90 days on extension. No question about income.

Have been told once a year now need to apply for a NON-O- Visa outside Thailand.

Paternity affiliation by a Thai court, certificate issued by the Amphur afterwards. I applied for the 60 days and got a 60 days extension in between 20 minutes.

[PoorSucker]

400.000,- Baht in the bank proofed by bank statement. Need to be shown every 90 days on extension. No question about income.

Have been told once a year now need to apply for a NON-O- Visa outside Thailand.

Paternity affiliation by a Thai court, certificate issued by the Amphur afterwards. I applied for the 60 days and got a 60 days extension in between 20 minutes.

This thread is about getting visa abroad, no problems getting extensions within Thailand yet.

[lopburi3]

400.000,- Baht in the bank proofed by bank statement. Need to be shown every 90 days on extension. No question about income.

Have been told once a year now need to apply for a NON-O- Visa outside Thailand.

Paternity affiliation by a Thai court, certificate issued by the Amphur afterwards. I applied for the 60 days and got a 60 days extension in between 20 minutes.

There is no such 90 day extension of stay for show of 400k that I am aware of. Be very careful. If you have a multi entry visa you must leave Thailand every 90 days to use that visa for a new entry - the other options would be one year normal extension of stay or 60 day extension as you now have.

I suspect you are talking about a one year extension of stay which only requires one single non immigrant O entry and would never require getting another but would require you report your address to immigration every 90 days and each year extend again within Thailand.

[Redhawk]

400.000,- Baht in the bank proofed by bank statement. Need to be shown every 90 days on extension. No question about income.

Have been told once a year now need to apply for a NON-O- Visa outside Thailand.

Paternity affiliation by a Thai court, certificate issued by the Amphur afterwards. I applied for the 60 days and got a 60 days extension in between 20 minutes.

There is no such 90 day extension of stay for show of 400k that I am aware of. Be very careful. If you have a multi entry visa you must leave Thailand every 90 days to use that visa for a new entry - the other options would be one year normal extension of stay or 60 day extension as you now have.

I suspect you are talking about a one year extension of stay which only requires one single non immigrant O entry and would never require getting another but would require you report your address to immigration every 90 days and each year extend again within Thailand.

Thanks for setting my words in the right contents, it was meant like you said. THX

[4evermaat]

I would be obliged if you would post the following message from the Royal Thai Consulate, Hull UK regarding the Expat Forum Topic "Non Imm Visa When You Have Thai Child":-......

I see the original thread that was quoted created quite a stir which prompted a consulate to reply. After reading through all of the posts, it does seem to be a change at Hull only, with possible rule changes at other embassies/consulates to the non-o for thai child. But nothing official from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or any other internal Thai ministry.

Funny how so many people complain about how bad it is to live in thailand and the second that there is the slightest shakedown or change in immigration rules (officially or de-facto), there is a lot of complaints around the region of "Oh no, now how will I be able to stay in LOS....this is unfair/cruel/stupid/the sky is falling/etc". Is Hull the only consulate UK passport holders have access to?

Another surprising thing is that the OP hull letter and clarification does not cite the authority or reason why they are making the changes. So then you have threads like this which large portion of posts speculate the exact reasons. The consulate could have clarified this instantly in 1-2 sentences in their reply. Maybe taken a few more sentences to add some examples of what proof would qualify? Does not reflect well on the consulate IMO.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I hold a Non-O- which was valid from 3.12.2010 to 2.12.2011 and I entered the Kingdom on the first of December 2011 which gave me another and last permission to stay for 90 days until the 28.02.2012. I prepared all paperwork in advance at home including the T.7 Form, the accompanying papers were as follows in form of a copy, except the passport lol, there was no request for the originals. Copies of birth certificate, paternity certificate, driver's license ( for proof of address ), visa and departure card and passport and one recent photo last but not least 1.900,- THB.

There was no request for a money i.e. an bank statement for these 60 days. No request for tabien baan or ID of the child or mother.

The officer told me preparing the same paperwork work applying for new NON-O- should work with

no problem due to his knowledge at chosen embassies around.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

How did you obtain this "paternity certificate"?

[Mario2008]

A recent post from another member, having visited kuala lumphur for a visa based on having a Thai child, confirmed this is an instruction for all Thai mission and not limited to "Hull".

For the paternity certificate you need to file a petition with the court to be recognised as the legal father, with which you can be registered as such at the amphur. (needed if the child is under 7 years old or the mother or child denies you are the father.

[Jayman]

A recent post from another member, having visited kuala lumphur for a visa based on having a Thai child, confirmed this is an instruction for all Thai mission and not limited to "Hull".

For the paternity certificate you need to file a petition with the court to be recognised as the legal father, with which you can be registered as such at the amphur. (needed if the child is under 7 years old or the mother or child denies you are the father.

He also confirmed that it hasn't taken effect yet.

[softgeorge]

I would be obliged if you would post the following message from the Royal Thai Consulate, Hull UK regarding the Expat Forum Topic "Non Imm Visa When You Have Thai Child":-......

I see the original thread that was quoted created quite a stir which prompted a consulate to reply. After reading through all of the posts, it does seem to be a change at Hull only, with possible rule changes at other embassies/consulates to the non-o for thai child. But nothing official from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or any other internal Thai ministry.

Funny how so many people complain about how bad it is to live in thailand and the second that there is the slightest shakedown or change in immigration rules (officially or de-facto), there is a lot of complaints around the region of "Oh no, now how will I be able to stay in LOS....this is unfair/cruel/stupid/the sky is falling/etc". Is Hull the only consulate UK passport holders have access to?

Another surprising thing is that the OP hull letter and clarification does not cite the authority or reason why they are making the changes. So then you have threads like this which large portion of posts speculate the exact reasons. The consulate could have clarified this instantly in 1-2 sentences in their reply. Maybe taken a few more sentences to add some examples of what proof would qualify? Does not reflect well on the consulate IMO.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I hold a Non-O- which was valid from 3.12.2010 to 2.12.2011 and I entered the Kingdom on the first of December 2011 which gave me another and last permission to stay for 90 days until the 28.02.2012. I prepared all paperwork in advance at home including the T.7 Form, the accompanying papers were as follows in form of a copy, except the passport lol, there was no request for the originals. Copies of birth certificate, paternity certificate, driver's license ( for proof of address ), visa and departure card and passport and one recent photo last but not least 1.900,- THB.

There was no request for a money i.e. an bank statement for these 60 days. No request for tabien baan or ID of the child or mother.

The officer told me preparing the same paperwork work applying for new NON-O- should work with

no problem due to his knowledge at chosen embassies around.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

How did you obtain this "paternity certificate"?

This is what I did, 1st I got a lawyer, 13,000 baht she prepared all the documentation and we (lawyer, partner & self) went to the family court (Chiangmai) and filed the application around 2,000 baht filing fee. Your application (copy) is then placed on the notice board for all to read this allows for objections to be lodged. A date is listed for a hearing in 60 days and in the meantime you have to attend at social services where you are interviewed in regards to your level of parenting income etc (harmless) you then return for a 2nd interview where your partner yourself and a witness (saying you perform parental duties etc) all make statements and sign documents which will be presented to the court at the hearing. On or around the 60 day mark you attend court for the hearing before a judge. In our case the judge accepted the statements and documentaion from social services and made his decision in chambers without us seeing him/her although we were present in court. An interim order is made and the final is issued in 30 days. (90 days in total give or take a day) When you recieve the final order you trot of to your local muang where you are recorded as the legal father and recieved such documentaion. The whole process is really quite simple and painless. I did not produce bank statements or proof of income.

As I said we used a lawyer who did everything for us and watching the process I thought I could have done all that myself and saved 13,000 however I also think had I done it myself I may have had an extra obstacle or two. So what I am saying it is best to use a lawyer and save the worries and hassles

[BigJohnnyBKK]

if married and you adopt a Thai child and something happens to the marriage (death of wife or divorce), where would that leave the child?

The process of adoption (quite independently of the issue of marriage) is in fact being recognized as the legal guardian "parent" of the child. That factor is what is missing in the cases affected by the Hull rule change, as simply being listed on the birth certificate has nothing to do with legal guardian/parent/custody status of the father.

If two people were jointly recognized as such, and the other dies, then the remaining partner would have sole legal custody of the child.

Does this glowing example of racism and xenophobia have anything to do with Thailand being placed on the Anti Money Laundering list (some hiso finding his financial operations are affected)?

No idea what you're on about, where do you see racism and xenophobia in this? The law is simply that no one is the legal father of a child in Thailand just because their name is on the birth certificate. Nothing has changed, nothing to do with the nationality of the father. The foreign service is now tightening up their procedures to reflect that law, because in some locations farang have been using putting their name on a Thai's birth certificate as a loophole. What's wrong with that?

You simply need to either be legally married to the mother or get recognized as the legal father of the child. Neither is any great burden if you're actually the child's father IMO.

This is Thailand, special cases are not considered and mercy and kindness is not offered to foreigners (unless you have piles of cash).

That is absolute nonsense. Individual officers and bureaucrats will very often help those who don't quite meet the official requirements. Obviously you need to have made a decent impression on them, dressed properly, acted with politeness and respect etc. I've often received discounts and even waivers of the usual tea-money fees, to the point where they were just a token gesture.

Remember, the main purpose of laws and regulations here is to enable officials to extract money from the population, so when they "tam boon" by letting you pass relatively unscathed you should be properly grateful, not act as if you're entitled to fair treatment just because you're farang.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

There is no alimony in Thailand, unless upon divorce you volentarily agree to it.

"Voluntary" in the sense of "if you want a divorce".

Perhaps a clearer statement - there is no government-enforced alimony, it's purely a civil matter, which requires money and lawyers to enforce.

Making the whole subject moot for 98% of farangs given the economic/social status of their ex-teerak.

[fullcave]

Oh and to those who think it's racist go back and ask your own consulate if this would fly in your country, it wouldn't. have a kid in america to an unwed mother good luck if you think you'll get a green card.

not true actually,.. as being the mother of us citizen is truly the fast track, a green card is not a problem and they will throw in a ten years visa to boot...

[chooka]

I would be obliged if you would post the following message from the Royal Thai Consulate, Hull UK regarding the Expat Forum Topic "Non Imm Visa When You Have Thai Child":-......

I see the original thread that was quoted created quite a stir which prompted a consulate to reply. After reading through all of the posts, it does seem to be a change at Hull only, with possible rule changes at other embassies/consulates to the non-o for thai child. But nothing official from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or any other internal Thai ministry.

Funny how so many people complain about how bad it is to live in thailand and the second that there is the slightest shakedown or change in immigration rules (officially or de-facto), there is a lot of complaints around the region of "Oh no, now how will I be able to stay in LOS....this is unfair/cruel/stupid/the sky is falling/etc". Is Hull the only consulate UK passport holders have access to?

Another surprising thing is that the OP hull letter and clarification does not cite the authority or reason why they are making the changes. So then you have threads like this which large portion of posts speculate the exact reasons. The consulate could have clarified this instantly in 1-2 sentences in their reply. Maybe taken a few more sentences to add some examples of what proof would qualify? Does not reflect well on the consulate IMO.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I hold a Non-O- which was valid from 3.12.2010 to 2.12.2011 and I entered the Kingdom on the first of December 2011 which gave me another and last permission to stay for 90 days until the 28.02.2012. I prepared all paperwork in advance at home including the T.7 Form, the accompanying papers were as follows in form of a copy, except the passport lol, there was no request for the originals. Copies of birth certificate, paternity certificate, driver's license ( for proof of address ), visa and departure card and passport and one recent photo last but not least 1.900,- THB.

There was no request for a money i.e. an bank statement for these 60 days. No request for tabien baan or ID of the child or mother.

The officer told me preparing the same paperwork work applying for new NON-O- should work with

no problem due to his knowledge at chosen embassies around.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

How did you obtain this "paternity certificate"?

This is what I did, 1st I got a lawyer, 13,000 baht she prepared all the documentation and we (lawyer, partner & self) went to the family court (Chiangmai) and filed the application around 2,000 baht filing fee. Your application (copy) is then placed on the notice board for all to read this allows for objections to be lodged. A date is listed for a hearing in 60 days and in the meantime you have to attend at social services where you are interviewed in regards to your level of parenting income etc (harmless) you then return for a 2nd interview where your partner yourself and a witness (saying you perform parental duties etc) all make statements and sign documents which will be presented to the court at the hearing. On or around the 60 day mark you attend court for the hearing before a judge. In our case the judge accepted the statements and documentaion from social services and made his decision in chambers without us seeing him/her although we were present in court. An interim order is made and the final is issued in 30 days. (90 days in total give or take a day) When you recieve the final order you trot of to your local muang where you are recorded as the legal father and recieved such documentaion. The whole process is really quite simple and painless. I did not produce bank statements or proof of income.

As I said we used a lawyer who did everything for us and watching the process I thought I could have done all that myself and saved 13,000 however I also think had I done it myself I may have had an extra obstacle or two. So what I am saying it is best to use a lawyer and save the worries and hassles

Dito, very easy to do unless someone lodges an objection then it could be harder, however I have never heard of an objection being lodged.

[BlackJack]

so if a man just wants to be legally recognised as the real dad does he just need a paternity DNA test and his name on the birth certificate and then go to court to get approval and then go to the Amphur and get it legally registered

The wifes not talking and she dont want to sign anything or appear in court

[Mario2008]

so if a man just wants to be legally recognised as the real dad does he just need a paternity DNA test and his name on the birth certificate and then go to court to get approval and then go to the Amphur and get it legally registered

The wifes not talking and she dont want to sign anything or appear in court

You still go to court and the mother will be summmend. Her not appearing will delay the case and make it more expensive.But in the end you will be the legal father, although you might indeed need DNA proof.

You will be able to get a non-O visa based on that. Extensions of stay will only be given if you and the child live together.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

so if a man just wants to be legally recognised as the real dad does he just need a paternity DNA test and his name on the birth certificate and then go to court to get approval and then go to the Amphur and get it legally registered

The wifes not talking and she dont want to sign anything or appear in court

Please clarify what you mean - are you saying the mother is refusing to cooperate to have you registered as the legal father of her child?

That would IMO be truly bizarre - you are supporting them aren't you? Is she just holding out for more cash?

If that's the case I'd either negotiate for a one-time lump sum in exchange for the legal recognition, or find a way to adequately support nutrition and schooling for your offspring without her seeing a baht of it.

[Mario2008]

@blackjack.

Noticed you are talking about "wife" and not mother. If you are or were married with the mother during the birth of the child, you are automatically the legal father.

[champken]

So here i am the father of a Thai child who i have at my expense enrolled into a Thai private school, we live in my condo which i purchased with money brought in from the UK, but as of now the only visa that i am entitled to apply for is a tourist visa !..well i really am getting pxssed off with this place and the seemingly lack of thought or flexibility that go into these ever changing regulations, unfortunately i am kind of stuck here with a child, his mother and a condo, the car and motorbike i can do without though.

If i was without commitment here, then i would be long gone out of here

[ALFREDO]

-champken-

I am in the same situation.

But, you can marry your GF-Mama of your child, or, you go with her and the child-if it is more than 7 year old, to the Amphoe where your GF is registered, with all legal, papers, see more Informations in this thread and your GF and your child can testify in the Amphoe for you.

You will be than legal father and it should cost only some Hundred Baht.

More difficult, if your GF does not like to do that, or if your child is younger than 7.

So, its not all lost. But its crazy!

Thinking of my Visa run to Vientiane tomorrow, 150 km one way, than at least 2 nights in Vientiane and possible hours in the Consular section building,

I get angry already!

And than I have to say please and thank you for a Non Immigrant O Visa or 2 Tourist Visas?

For I let Millions of Baht in this country and to get a permit to have the possibility to supervise how more money is running?

I dream from Cambodian Visa Regulations!

[justaphase]

So does this mean I can't go to Penang with just my sons birth cert and get a 3 month Imm o?

[Jayman]

So does this mean I can't go to Penang with just my sons birth cert and get a 3 month Imm o?

I would email them first with your current situation and ask them for their requirements. Then print out their reply and bring it with you when you go to apply for the visa. Some embassy/consulates are reporting no change at all and will still accept the birth cert alone as proof of relation to the child (ie NYC). Others have reported here that the new regs only apply to Hull and yet others have reported that non hull consulates told them the new rules don't start till May 1.

I wouldn't rely on anything being told here as the final say. I'd get in contact with the office you intend to visit and get their take on it before taking the time to show up with possibly unrealistic expectations.