You Think Thailand Is Bad? Try The Uk Pensions Lot!

[exeter]

They along with UK civil servants excluded themselves from this rule, they still get the inflation increases on their pensions wherever they may choose to live.

One rule for one and one for another, the taxpayer pays, oh thats me and you then.

I think your post is misleading, you seem to imply that Civil Servants don't have their State Pensions frozen if they choose to live in certain countries overseas, you and I know that isn't the case and I suspect that's not what you meant to say.

Whilst it's true that Civil Servants pay into a pension scheme that gives them an index linked pension payable anywhere they choose to live in the world, the same applies to many private pensions. I and other retired Civil Servants still have our State Pensions frozen if we live in countries such as Thailand.

I stand corrected and apologise for any misunderstanding

[theoldgit]

I don't think its scapegoating, rather the mobilisation of "Spite and Envy" in a sustained attack on the pensions that allow people to retire early.

The people who have company/government/private pensions generally earn more than people who do not, they generally are not drawing any welfare payments (they are contributors not takers) and allowing these tax cows to retire is cutting off a vital income stream.

I do agree that there is a "spite and envy" element when people talk about Civil Service and other private pensions.

Clearly I'm content with my Civil Service pension and the fact that it was based on my final salary and index linked is to my advantage, many of my former colleagues are clearly worried about the moving of the goalposts whereby the government are now lowering the pension provision by changing the rules to existing employees as well as new entrants. Clearly the pension provision in the scheme I signed up to was unsustainable, had my contributions gone into a pot then it would have been ok, but it wasn't.

When John Hutton published his report on Civil Service Pensions he challenged some of the common myths, the facts are that the average civil service pay is £22,850 a year, compared to £24,970 in the private sector, excluding the very highest earners, the average civil service pension is £4,200 a year.

[F1fanatic]

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as pensions are concerned.

[ludditeman]

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as pensions are concerned.

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as everything is concerned.

[theoldgit]

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as pensions are concerned.

I think you are right, and it's something Hutton said, in his report, should be avoided.

[thaibeachlovers]

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as pensions are concerned.

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as everything is concerned.

So true, so sad. It didn't have to be this way, but Britain got hijacked by the looney left, and must pay the piper.

[thaibeachlovers]

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT. The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

I beg to differ with your assessment:

1. Brits living outside the country don't draw on anything like their full entitlements (which they could if living in the UK) ... this is a saving to the community. There are stats available on this if you care to investigate

2. Some of the value of the financial benefits received by overseas Brits still "contributes" to the UK economy, for example via purchase of UK goods consumed overseas

3. You might also care to calculate and factor in the value of benefits paid by foreign governments to their nationals living in Britain, or in fact to resident Brits who have lived/worked overseas and hence qualify for payments/pensions from foreign governments

True. By not using the NHS, expats save the UK government far more than they would cost with inflation linked pensions.

Just wait till hundreds of thousands of expats can no longer afford to live overseas, and all go "home" to get council houses and free NHS treatment. They'll be sorry then!

[F1fanatic]

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as pensions are concerned.

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as everything is concerned.

So true, so sad. It didn't have to be this way, but Britain got hijacked by the looney left, and must pay the piper.

Good idea. Rather than discussing what is happening/causes etc. - let's resort to political insults.

[thaibeachlovers]

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as pensions are concerned.

The UK is currently in a 'race to the bottom' as far as everything is concerned.

So true, so sad. It didn't have to be this way, but Britain got hijacked by the looney left, and must pay the piper.

Good idea. Rather than discussing what is happening/causes etc. - let's resort to political insults.

Not at all. The looney left did cause Britains problems.

[theblether]

Seriously.......maybe the current pensioners should take some responsibility for the state you believe the UK is in. It is your generation that was in power ) even now to an extent ) when the Industrial Relations went into the gutter, when we had the Winter of Discontent, when we had to go cap in hand to the IMF to pay our bills in 1976, and it was you that voted us into the Common Market.

All I can hear is the sound of the ladder getting pulled up as you abandon the UK and abandon the current workforce, including me, to pay for the mess you left behind.

I would like to see the true voting and work record of some of the contributors to this topic...............methinks the stench of hypocrisy is permeating the air.

[theblether]

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT. The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

I beg to differ with your assessment:

1. Brits living outside the country don't draw on anything like their full entitlements (which they could if living in the UK) ... this is a saving to the community. There are stats available on this if you care to investigate

2. Some of the value of the financial benefits received by overseas Brits still "contributes" to the UK economy, for example via purchase of UK goods consumed overseas

3. You might also care to calculate and factor in the value of benefits paid by foreign governments to their nationals living in Britain, or in fact to resident Brits who have lived/worked overseas and hence qualify for payments/pensions from foreign governments

True. By not using the NHS, expats save the UK government far more than they would cost with inflation linked pensions.

Just wait till hundreds of thousands of expats can no longer afford to live overseas, and all go "home" to get council houses and free NHS treatment. They'll be sorry then!

Tell me, what was the benefit to the UK economy of all the ex-pats exporting their capital and pension income to a foreign country?

[cardholder]

Do you expect someone else to put food on your table? As bendix said earlier make your own provisions. Grown adults expecting someone else to look after them. Govt pension is a nice addition but look after yourself, do not expect someone else to do it

If this is addressed to me I don't understand it. As an employee I was obliged to pay 'National Insurance' which was for a pension

The NI is not SOLELY for a pension. It covers a range of various 'insurances' including insurance against illhealth, insurance against unemployment etc etc. The insurance against old age is a tiny part of it.

NIC payments were NOT your pension fund.

Indeed they were not .

They WERE a declared entitlement on the part of the UK government and, every person making a NI contribution did so in the belief that (subject to qualification) they would receive the OAP (+ other benefits).

It is at least as reasonable to include OAP in your pension planning as it is to include, say, an Equitable Life pension policy.

I do share the view that it is nice to consider the OAP as a ' bonus' - but in 10 years time I DO expect to receive it.

[theblether]

They WERE a declared entitlement on the part of the UK government and, every person making a NI contribution did so in the belief that (subject to qualification) they would receive the OAP (+ other benefits).

It is at least as reasonable to include OAP in your pension planning as it is to include, say, an Equitable Life pension policy.

I do share the view that it is nice to consider the OAP as a ' bonus' - but in 10 years time I DO expect to receive it.

I totally agree with you. The problem now is that we people still in the workforce are seeing the retirement age disappearing further and further into the distance as the baby boomers pull up the ladder.

More and more responsibility is getting loaded onto fewer and fewer people, and these current pensioners are standing with their noses at the trough saying "Please Sir, can I have some more?".

Never a thought for the fact that they have left the rest of us in the Poor House.

[F1fanatic]

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT. The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

I beg to differ with your assessment:

1. Brits living outside the country don't draw on anything like their full entitlements (which they could if living in the UK) ... this is a saving to the community. There are stats available on this if you care to investigate

2. Some of the value of the financial benefits received by overseas Brits still "contributes" to the UK economy, for example via purchase of UK goods consumed overseas

3. You might also care to calculate and factor in the value of benefits paid by foreign governments to their nationals living in Britain, or in fact to resident Brits who have lived/worked overseas and hence qualify for payments/pensions from foreign governments

True. By not using the NHS, expats save the UK government far more than they would cost with inflation linked pensions.

Just wait till hundreds of thousands of expats can no longer afford to live overseas, and all go "home" to get council houses and free NHS treatment. They'll be sorry then!

Tell me, what was the benefit to the UK economy of all the ex-pats exporting their capital and pension income to a foreign country?

There was no benefit to the UK (other than the saving in NHS costs), but what is the difference between those retiring to France and those retiring to Thailand?

As long as I'm paying UK tax I believe I should be entitled to the same benefits as those that have retired to other countries.

Having said that, I knew when moving here that my State pension would be frozen.

[thaibeachlovers]

They WERE a declared entitlement on the part of the UK government and, every person making a NI contribution did so in the belief that (subject to qualification) they would receive the OAP (+ other benefits).

It is at least as reasonable to include OAP in your pension planning as it is to include, say, an Equitable Life pension policy.

I do share the view that it is nice to consider the OAP as a ' bonus' - but in 10 years time I DO expect to receive it.

I totally agree with you. The problem now is that we people still in the workforce are seeing the retirement age disappearing further and further into the distance as the baby boomers pull up the ladder.

More and more responsibility is getting loaded onto fewer and fewer people, and these current pensioners are standing with their noses at the trough saying "Please Sir, can I have some more?".

Never a thought for the fact that they have left the rest of us in the Poor House.

??????? Britain is in the poor house because of virtually unrestricted immigration by people that have no skills needed, and that then are able to bring over their relatives to feed at the public trough. Also by barking laws that entitles 3 generations to live on the dole in the north, while immigrants are having to do the work in the south.

Add such stupidity as wasting billions on the NHS black hole, and other public service disasters.

I doubt that any expats are currently living high on the hog from what they managed to save on the dole. Perhaps we should all top ourselves at 60 so that the stupid and lazy that infest Britain can have an easy ride without having to pay anything to support us.

I supported old people all my life with my taxes, why should I now be denied a pension? Give me my tax back, and I promise you won't hear another word from me!

[thaibeachlovers]

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT. The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

I beg to differ with your assessment:

1. Brits living outside the country don't draw on anything like their full entitlements (which they could if living in the UK) ... this is a saving to the community. There are stats available on this if you care to investigate

2. Some of the value of the financial benefits received by overseas Brits still "contributes" to the UK economy, for example via purchase of UK goods consumed overseas

3. You might also care to calculate and factor in the value of benefits paid by foreign governments to their nationals living in Britain, or in fact to resident Brits who have lived/worked overseas and hence qualify for payments/pensions from foreign governments

True. By not using the NHS, expats save the UK government far more than they would cost with inflation linked pensions.

Just wait till hundreds of thousands of expats can no longer afford to live overseas, and all go "home" to get council houses and free NHS treatment. They'll be sorry then!

Tell me, what was the benefit to the UK economy of all the ex-pats exporting their capital and pension income to a foreign country?

Perhaps you'd like to go back to the days when you couldn't take more than a very small amount of your own money out of the country without government permission.

Last time I looked, it was my money to take wherever I wanted.

What about people that never work and pay taxes. Should they be denied free health care and other benefits?

[theoldgit]

I knew when moving here that my State pension would be frozen.

I think we all knew that and planned accordingly, that doesn't make it right though.

Whilst I agree with the blethers point about the baby boomers being the straw the broke the camels back, my words not his, I don't really think you can blame this generation. I'm a baby boomer, when I was a youngster I didn't know how my old age pension would be funded, or probably even care, I just knew that I would "pay my stamp" and when I reached the State Pension age I would receive a pension that would take into account the fact I was no longer working and protect me against inflation.

I think the fact of the matter is the index linking of pensions is a political issue, the grey vote in the UK is substantial so any political party will promise almost anything to keep that vote. There is a grey vote in Thailand, Australia and the like ,but because of the difficulties of voting in the UK elections we don't really count for much. There is no ground swell of public opinion in the UK regarding the treatment of us OAPs, (well I will be one in a couple of weeks), the opposite is probably true, in the eyes of the great British public we are probably all very rich and living the life of luxury on an exotic beach, I suspect that if it went to a vote they would take the pension off us all together.

[ludditeman]

I suspect that if it went to a vote they would take the pension off us all together.

I suspect if it went to a vote, people of Indian and African descent wouldn't get UK pensions either.

But on the other hand when did the elite ruling the UK ever listen to what the general public wanted or voted for.

Edited March 4, 2012 by ludditeman

[thaibeachlovers]

I knew when moving here that my State pension would be frozen.

I think we all knew that and planned accordingly, that doesn't make it right though.

Whilst I agree with the blethers point about the baby boomers being the straw the broke the camels back, my words not his, I don't really think you can blame this generation. I'm a baby boomer, when I was a youngster I didn't know how my old age pension would be funded, or probably even care, I just knew that I would "pay my stamp" and when I reached the State Pension age I would receive a pension that would take into account the fact I was no longer working and protect me against inflation.

I think the fact of the matter is the index linking of pensions is a political issue, the grey vote in the UK is substantial so any political party will promise almost anything to keep that vote. There is a grey vote in Thailand, Australia and the like ,but because of the difficulties of voting in the UK elections we don't really count for much. There is no ground swell of public opinion in the UK regarding the treatment of us OAPs, (well I will be one in a couple of weeks), the opposite is probably true, in the eyes of the great British public we are probably all very rich and living the life of luxury on an exotic beach, I suspect that if it went to a vote they would take the pension off us all together.

Wait till all the baby boomers have retired, and then try to screw us over! Grey power has barely begun as a political movement.

"They" might vote for us to lose the pension, but they'd regret it when hundreds of thousands of penniless and destitute pensioners flood back into Britain demanding their right to council housing, free bus and tube travel, free prescriptions, free medical and council housing.

[exeter]

I think its worth pointing out that there are 2 sides to the frozen story and depending on how you look at it, one side is often forgotten to rpove your point.

We have and still do pay our taxes in the UK, up to retirement we also paid our NI or was that knocked on the head at 60? Cant remember! Those of us that came out to other lands to have a different end to our lives our pension increases are frozen for that decision and that is a touchy subject. By leaving the UK we longer contribute to the UK economy that is true, nor do we use NHS benefits, nor do we use the bus pass ( for me that is worth £1800 a year in London plus when I travel in other parts of the country). Now you might be able to think of other affects as well, but when you do the trade off it is heavily weighted aginst expat pensioners. The figures I have seen ar that the saving on the NHS are estimated to be £7500 pa + bus pass £1800 + tax paid £1200 and then I am denied an extra £5 pa for life. If I were in the UK how much VAT would I pay, no car so would have estimate the year at shall we say generously £1000? You can change the figures if you want but on those I have suggested the only conclusion is that we have been well and truly been unfairly treated. I would still choose this life here for all that and I guess that goes for most of you as well.

[taff33]

I'm 65 in April,last September I notified UK pensions of my address in Thailand,later they sent me the forms to make a claim,sent them back to them and have now had my monthly payment amount to be started paying in May,no probs.They also sent me a letter saying that a company by their a that I worked for in the 60's-70's are trying to get in touch with me to pay me a pension.I can't fault the UK pension system at all.

Wait and watch for the yearly inflation increases, they will be conspicuous by their absence, you might think differently then.

But I won't be in the UK to worry about the the inflation increases,I'll be in Thailand with three pensions going into the bank,and also paying VAT at 7% not 20%,car payed for,house payed for,m/c payed for and the cost of living in Thailand a dam sight less then than the UK.Do you think that I am better off living in Thailand or the UK?,answers on a post card please.

[exeter]

I suspect that if it went to a vote they would take the pension off us all together.

I suspect if it went to a vote, people of Indian and African descent wouldn't get UK pensions either.

But on the other hand when did the elite ruling the UK ever listen to what the general public wanted or voted for.

Do you mean there is an elite in the UK just like Thailand? Surely not!

[ludditeman]

Seriously.......maybe the current pensioners should take some responsibility for the state you believe the UK is in. It is your generation that was in power ) even now to an extent ) when the Industrial Relations went into the gutter, when we had the Winter of Discontent, when we had to go cap in hand to the IMF to pay our bills in 1976, and it was you that voted us into the Common Market.

Do you really believe that the common man voting decides the government and government policy.

As far as I can see an 'elite' group rule the UK, every few years the population get to choose which of those 'elite' sit in Parliament.

The 'elite' don't use the NHS, don't use government schools, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the population in general.

[stoneyboy]

Seriously.......maybe the current pensioners should take some responsibility for the state you believe the UK is in. It is your generation that was in power ) even now to an extent ) when the Industrial Relations went into the gutter, when we had the Winter of Discontent, when we had to go cap in hand to the IMF to pay our bills in 1976, and it was you that voted us into the Common Market.

Do you really believe that the common man voting decides the government and government policy.

As far as I can see an 'elite' group rule the UK, every few years the population get to choose which of those 'elite' sit in Parliament.

The 'elite' don't use the NHS, don't use government schools, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the population in general.

Correct.

[ludditeman]

I'm 65 in April,last September I notified UK pensions of my address in Thailand,later they sent me the forms to make a claim,sent them back to them and have now had my monthly payment amount to be started paying in May,no probs.They also sent me a letter saying that a company by their a that I worked for in the 60's-70's are trying to get in touch with me to pay me a pension.I can't fault the UK pension system at all.

Wait and watch for the yearly inflation increases, they will be conspicuous by their absence, you might think differently then.

But I won't be in the UK to worry about the the inflation increases,I'll be in Thailand with three pensions going into the bank,and also paying VAT at 7% not 20%,car payed for,house payed for,m/c payed for and the cost of living in Thailand a dam sight less then than the UK.Do you think that I am better off living in Thailand or the UK?,answers on a post card please.

Let's hope the UKP doesn't fall to 1UKP to 10BHT, else you and your three pensions might come a cropper.

Let's also hope none of your pension funds fail, another serious future possibility.

Edited March 4, 2012 by ludditeman

[cardholder]

I think its worth pointing out that there are 2 sides to the frozen story and depending on how you look at it, one side is often forgotten to rpove your point.

We have and still do pay our taxes in the UK, up to retirement we also paid our NI or was that knocked on the head at 60? Cant remember! Those of us that came out to other lands to have a different end to our lives our pension increases are frozen for that decision and that is a touchy subject. By leaving the UK we longer contribute to the UK economy that is true, nor do we use NHS benefits, nor do we use the bus pass ( for me that is worth £1800 a year in London plus when I travel in other parts of the country). Now you might be able to think of other affects as well, but when you do the trade off it is heavily weighted aginst expat pensioners. The figures I have seen ar that the saving on the NHS are estimated to be £7500 pa + bus pass £1800 + tax paid £1200 and then I am denied an extra £5 pa for life. If I were in the UK how much VAT would I pay, no car so would have estimate the year at shall we say generously £1000? You can change the figures if you want but on those I have suggested the only conclusion is that we have been well and truly been unfairly treated. I would still choose this life here for all that and I guess that goes for most of you as well.

Had I chosen to base myself in the UK at retirement I would be a drain on resources. My pension would be taxed (as it is now) but the net income would be spent largely on traveling, plus acquiring an overseas property in, say, Spain. I would maximise use of the NHS and all public services that I had paid into and minimise the stealth taxes such as Community Charge.

I have chosen instead to domicile myself in Thailand where I will support myself within the rules of this country - I neither want nor ask anything of the Thai government. Of the UK government I simply ask them to pay me what I believe I am rightly entitled to - an OAP at the age of 66 (preferably with the same benefits that accrue to other UK citizens who also qualify for such payment).

[exeter]

I'm 65 in April,last September I notified UK pensions of my address in Thailand,later they sent me the forms to make a claim,sent them back to them and have now had my monthly payment amount to be started paying in May,no probs.They also sent me a letter saying that a company by their a that I worked for in the 60's-70's are trying to get in touch with me to pay me a pension.I can't fault the UK pension system at all.

Wait and watch for the yearly inflation increases, they will be conspicuous by their absence, you might think differently then.

But I won't be in the UK to worry about the the inflation increases,I'll be in Thailand with three pensions going into the bank,and also paying VAT at 7% not 20%,car payed for,house payed for,m/c payed for and the cost of living in Thailand a dam sight less then than the UK.Do you think that I am better off living in Thailand or the UK?,answers on a post card please.

Inflation does not just apply to the UK it will erode your savings here as well, you just dont know what you dont know, things could change tomorrow and you would not look so smug then, I do however congratulate you on having the good planning sense to have aquired what sounds like a good pension plan so I hope it works out as you plan.

[GuestHouse]

Had I chosen to base myself in the UK at retirement I would be a drain on resources. My pension would be taxed (as it is now) but the net income would be spent largely on traveling, plus acquiring an overseas property in, say, Spain. I would maximise use of the NHS and all public services that I had paid into and minimise the stealth taxes such as Community Charge.

I have chosen instead to domicile myself in Thailand where I will support myself within the rules of this country - I neither want nor ask anything of the Thai government. Of the UK government I simply ask them to pay me what I believe I am rightly entitled to - an OAP at the age of 66 (preferably with the same benefits that accrue to other UK citizens who also qualify for such payment).

In the first instance you are clearly wrong in what you are entitled to, while in the second, if not receiving indexing on your state pension is such a big issue I doubt the home in Spain would materialise ..... even as things are in Spain right now.

[theoldgit]

I wonder how many people would find themselves in difficulty if the Thai authorities increased the financial level for those expats who wanted to extend their permission to stay based on retirement?

[cardholder]

I'm 65 in April,last September I notified UK pensions of my address in Thailand,later they sent me the forms to make a claim,sent them back to them and have now had my monthly payment amount to be started paying in May,no probs.They also sent me a letter saying that a company by their a that I worked for in the 60's-70's are trying to get in touch with me to pay me a pension.I can't fault the UK pension system at all.

Wait and watch for the yearly inflation increases, they will be conspicuous by their absence, you might think differently then.

But I won't be in the UK to worry about the the inflation increases,I'll be in Thailand with three pensions going into the bank,and also paying VAT at 7% not 20%,car payed for,house payed for,m/c payed for and the cost of living in Thailand a dam sight less then than the UK.Do you think that I am better off living in Thailand or the UK?,answers on a post card please.

Let's hope the UKP doesn't fall to 1UKP to 10BHT, else you and your three pensions might come a cropper.

Let's also hope none of your pension funds fail, another serious future possibility.

But a bigger cropper if he stayed in the UK !!

Also, far more secure with the backing of 3 pension funds than your average UK expat