You Think Thailand Is Bad? Try The Uk Pensions Lot!

[exeter]

Well I had a bit of a shock yesterday! Went to check my company pension and found that there was a reduction. Looking further into it I found that those jolly japes at the HMRC and decided to put me on a tax code of 430! Previously it had been 747 although according to their own website I should have been on 994. My daughter said the same thing has happened to her at the same time and out of the blue, maybe you all should just check it out.

This might be because you have started to draw your stat pension. For some inexplicable reason ,the pensions lot cannot deduct 20% tax at source like my pensions, so they tell your primary pension people to lower your tax code to collect the tax that way. Mine is around 300 i think

I rang the HMRC yesterday, they assumed I had taken my pension, but I had not, so that was one reason but it not account for the drop to 430L. However, what next happened is a lesson for all. My tax code was re stated to 747!! So I told the lady on the other end of he phone that was not right either, I have you screen in front me! I am 65 and it says £9940 allowance! So again this has been adjusted, I hope, if I had not asked and been prepared I would have lost out, so be aware.

When I claim my pension I also have to call them back (june) to make sure they are aware and I will also remind them that at that time the allowance has gone up to £10500.

Everyone should take note that it seems you will not get what you think unless you ask or remind them.

[bendix]

Do you expect someone else to put food on your table? As bendix said earlier make your own provisions. Grown adults expecting someone else to look after them. Govt pension is a nice addition but look after yourself, do not expect someone else to do it

If this is addressed to me I don't understand it. As an employee I was obliged to pay 'National Insurance' which was for a pension

The NI is not SOLELY for a pension. It covers a range of various 'insurances' including insurance against illhealth, insurance against unemployment etc etc. The insurance against old age is a tiny part of it.

NIC payments were NOT your pension fund.

[ludditeman]

Do you expect someone else to put food on your table? As bendix said earlier make your own provisions. Grown adults expecting someone else to look after them. Govt pension is a nice addition but look after yourself, do not expect someone else to do it

If this is addressed to me I don't understand it. As an employee I was obliged to pay 'National Insurance' which was for a pension

The NI is not SOLELY for a pension. It covers a range of various 'insurances' including insurance against illhealth, insurance against unemployment etc etc. The insurance against old age is a tiny part of it.

NIC payments were NOT your pension fund.

It was if you paid 'contracted in' or SERPS, which can more that double the state pension, but still gets frozen if you live in the wrong country.

[F1fanatic]

Do you expect someone else to put food on your table? As bendix said earlier make your own provisions. Grown adults expecting someone else to look after them. Govt pension is a nice addition but look after yourself, do not expect someone else to do it

If this is addressed to me I don't understand it. As an employee I was obliged to pay 'National Insurance' which was for a pension

The NI is not SOLELY for a pension. It covers a range of various 'insurances' including insurance against illhealth, insurance against unemployment etc etc. The insurance against old age is a tiny part of it.

NIC payments were NOT your pension fund.

Except - some of it WAS paid to provide a pension.

[F1fanatic]

Do you expect someone else to put food on your table? As bendix said earlier make your own provisions. Grown adults expecting someone else to look after them. Govt pension is a nice addition but look after yourself, do not expect someone else to do it

If this is addressed to me I don't understand it. As an employee I was obliged to pay 'National Insurance' which was for a pension

The NI is not SOLELY for a pension. It covers a range of various 'insurances' including insurance against illhealth, insurance against unemployment etc etc. The insurance against old age is a tiny part of it.

NIC payments were NOT your pension fund.

It was if you paid 'contracted in' or SERPS, which can more that double the state pension, but still gets frozen if you live in the wrong country.

Even if you were 'contracted out', part of your NI went towards the basic pension and, if you retired in the UK, would be index-linked.

[msg362]

Do you expect someone else to put food on your table? As bendix said earlier make your own provisions. Grown adults expecting someone else to look after them. Govt pension is a nice addition but look after yourself, do not expect someone else to do it

If this is addressed to me I don't understand it. As an employee I was obliged to pay 'National Insurance' which was for a pension

The NI is not SOLELY for a pension. It covers a range of various 'insurances' including insurance against illhealth, insurance against unemployment etc etc. The insurance against old age is a tiny part of it.

NIC payments were NOT your pension fund.

Why then if you don't pay it for ?? 40 years? do you get a reduced pension?. Of course it's for a pension. I had no choice but to pay it, including some 'graduated '. Ok some is for other things, but it's that way employees in the Uk contribute to their pension. In return, as I paid for 40 years I naively expected the State to keep to it's side of the bargain.

[msg362]

Back to the OP. Phone call 5, still no money. No return phone call. Now told to expect a call from Pensions IT on Monday to tell my why. Be reassured I was told, this does not happen very often! "" I don't want a phone call, I don't care why, please just pay me" was my reply.

[bendix]

Do you expect someone else to put food on your table? As bendix said earlier make your own provisions. Grown adults expecting someone else to look after them. Govt pension is a nice addition but look after yourself, do not expect someone else to do it

If this is addressed to me I don't understand it. As an employee I was obliged to pay 'National Insurance' which was for a pension

The NI is not SOLELY for a pension. It covers a range of various 'insurances' including insurance against illhealth, insurance against unemployment etc etc. The insurance against old age is a tiny part of it.

NIC payments were NOT your pension fund.

Why then if you don't pay it for ?? 40 years? do you get a reduced pension?. Of course it's for a pension. I had no choice but to pay it, including some 'graduated '. Ok some is for other things, but it's that way employees in the Uk contribute to their pension. In return, as I paid for 40 years I naively expected the State to keep to it's side of the bargain.

This has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, and I suggest you do your research. A fraction - nor more than 2-3 quid a week of NI payments (roughly the equivalent of current Class 2 contributions) go towards your basic state pension. The balance - and by far the majority - is insurance for sickness, unemployment etc.

It is not called National Insurance for no reason. It is insurance, NOT a pension pot with your personal name attached to it. There is no 'contract' between you and the government to return those NI payments to you because it is not your money, assigned to you with your name on it in the same way as a private pension pot.

[F1fanatic]

Try explaining that to the majority living and working in the UK.

Foolishly (according to you), they believe that their NI contributions will provide them with a state pension when they retire.

[bendix]

Try explaining that to the majority living and working in the UK.

Foolishly (according to you), they believe that their NI contributions will provide them with a state pension when they retire.

Not foolishly. Erroneously.

People seem to think their NI contributions go to some account with their name on it. That's nonsense. It is an insurance premium (again, the clue is in the name) for a range of misfortunes, of which the inabiity to earn an income in your old age is just one.

There are absolutely no inherent rights to any kind of payment simply because NI contributions have been paid, in the same way that pay-outs from private insurance companies are pretty much at the whim or discretion of the insurance provider.

That the vast majority of people don't understand this is not moot.

[ludditeman]

There are absolutely no inherent rights to any kind of payment simply because NI contributions have been paid, in the same way that pay-outs from private insurance companies are pretty much at the whim or discretion of the insurance provider.

Interesting how you ignore the comments on SERPs and contracted in payments, which are clearly only for pension contributions.

But then you only seem here to revel and sneer at the misfortune of those you consider less than yourself.

What a nice person you are.

Edited March 3, 2012 by ludditeman

[true blue]

Try explaining that to the majority living and working in the UK.

Foolishly (according to you), they believe that their NI contributions will provide them with a state pension when they retire.

Not foolishly. Erroneously.

People seem to think their NI contributions go to some account with their name on it. That's nonsense. It is an insurance premium (again, the clue is in the name) for a range of misfortunes, of which the inabiity to earn an income in your old age is just one.

There are absolutely no inherent rights to any kind of payment simply because NI contributions have been paid, in the same way that pay-outs from private insurance companies are pretty much at the whim or discretion of the insurance provider.

That the vast majority of people don't understand this is not moot.

agree that you dont have a pension fund ,in the sense of a insurance company(which by the way can run out or go bust??)but your entitled to your contributory benifits,through your national insurance contribution,which in a way is your premiums for future payments by law,and considering you could have payed in over 14% of your salary in the good years,(class one stamp) i think around 100 quid a week is not a very good annuity,lol.but at least its payed for ever.

[Beechboy]

It's an excellent system, although perhaps constipated by bureaucracy at times.

The British Welfare State has been the envy of the World and has been imitated by many countries to a greater or lesser extent.

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT.

The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Beechboy

[nong38]

It's an excellent system, although perhaps constipated by bureaucracy at times.

The British Welfare State has been the envy of the World and has been imitated by many countries to a greater or lesser extent.

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT.

The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

It is indeed the envy of the world, which is why a lot of the world is trying to come to the UK and cash in! Ok this is the deal you can come provided you pay in advance and take the Titanic or similarly "lucky ship" sight seeing round the polar region first. First one to spot an iceberg gets a lifebuoy!

[chiangmaibruce]

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT. The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

I beg to differ with your assessment:

1. Brits living outside the country don't draw on anything like their full entitlements (which they could if living in the UK) ... this is a saving to the community. There are stats available on this if you care to investigate

2. Some of the value of the financial benefits received by overseas Brits still "contributes" to the UK economy, for example via purchase of UK goods consumed overseas

3. You might also care to calculate and factor in the value of benefits paid by foreign governments to their nationals living in Britain, or in fact to resident Brits who have lived/worked overseas and hence qualify for payments/pensions from foreign governments

[nong38]

Why does Thailand not apply to join the UK, soon there may be a vacancy ( if Scootland sails off into to the North Sea) then our pensions will have the annual inflation increase added for ever, what a simple solution. We also will be able to go down the pub/bar and talk endlessly of more important matters like the eradication of squat toilets on areoplanes for starters!

Edited March 3, 2012 by nong38

[nong38]

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT. The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

I beg to differ with your assessment:

1. Brits living outside the country don't draw on anything like their full entitlements (which they could if living in the UK) ... this is a saving to the community. There are stats available on this if you care to investigate

2. Some of the value of the financial benefits received by overseas Brits still "contributes" to the UK economy, for example via purchase of UK goods consumed overseas

3. You might also care to calculate and factor in the value of benefits paid by foreign governments to their nationals living in Britain, or in fact to resident Brits who have lived/worked overseas and hence qualify for payments/pensions from foreign governments

You forgot to mention the Jolly Old HMRC who ask me for my membership fee every year, I tried to deduct inflation every year but they are not having it!

[theblether]

I'm very proud of myself.......I have managed to resist the temptation to read this topic.

I think I can guess the contents though.

[msg362]

It's an excellent system, although perhaps constipated by bureaucracy at times.

The British Welfare State has been the envy of the World and has been imitated by many countries to a greater or lesser extent.

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT.

The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

OOPS

Expats do not use the NHS, have free bus passes/ cold winter allowance but ( as I do) still pay income tax on their UK derived income( to the UK state, in my case I think about £4K a year from which I derive no benefit) I contribute to the UK . If it's unfair, why is it allowed in some countries but not in others?

[stoneyboy]

It's an excellent system, although perhaps constipated by bureaucracy at times.

The British Welfare State has been the envy of the World and has been imitated by many countries to a greater or lesser extent.

Neither, in my opinion, is the lack of inflation proofing for ex-pat's pensions unfair.

The UK pensioner who remains in the UK spends his pension to the benefit of the local economy and further contributes to the national coffers by way of such things as VAT.

The ex-pat, by choice, contributes to the economy of another country.

OOPS

Expats do not use the NHS, have free bus passes/ cold winter allowance but ( as I do) still pay income tax on their UK derived income( to the UK state, in my case I think about £4K a year from which I derive no benefit) I contribute to the UK . If it's unfair, why is it allowed in some countries but not in others?

My old man always told me,life isn't fair son

[ravip]

<p>Life sure is not fair...http://uk.news.yahoo.com/men-guilty-stealing-student-riots-104950906.html

Edited March 3, 2012 by ravip

[msg362]

stoneyboy

[bendix]

There are absolutely no inherent rights to any kind of payment simply because NI contributions have been paid, in the same way that pay-outs from private insurance companies are pretty much at the whim or discretion of the insurance provider.

Interesting how you ignore the comments on SERPs and contracted in payments, which are clearly only for pension contributions.

But then you only seem here to revel and sneer at the misfortune of those you consider less than yourself.

What a nice person you are.

SERPS is clearly different and I make it quite clear that I am referring to the basic state pension

This has nothing to do with sneering. It is simple statement of fact whether you like it or not.

Stop whining.

[msg362]

bendix, on Yesterday, 15:14 , said:

There are absolutely no inherent rights to any kind of payment simply because NI contributions have been paid, in the same way that pay-outs from private insurance companies are pretty much at the whim or discretion of the insurance provider.

This may be ( and I don't know) why the European Court ruled in favour of the UK government when when the 'not paying inflation' case was brought. For some reason totally inexplicable to me , pensions were ruled as a 'benefit in kind' not a right, so no inflation proofing here .( I think it was brought by an expat living in South Africa or Australia, not sure).

[exeter]

It should not be forgotten that somewhere along the way politicians made this rule about the freezing of the pension if you moved abroad to country that is either outside the EU or does not have a reciprical arrangement with UK. They along with UK civil servants excluded themselves from this rule, they still get the inflation increases on their pensions wherever they may choose to live.

One rule for one and one for another, the taxpayer pays, oh thats me and you then.

As someone recently said "The worlds not fair."

[theoldgit]

They along with UK civil servants excluded themselves from this rule, they still get the inflation increases on their pensions wherever they may choose to live.

One rule for one and one for another, the taxpayer pays, oh thats me and you then.

I think your post is misleading, you seem to imply that Civil Servants don't have their State Pensions frozen if they choose to live in certain countries overseas, you and I know that isn't the case and I suspect that's not what you meant to say.

Whilst it's true that Civil Servants pay into a pension scheme that gives them an index linked pension payable anywhere they choose to live in the world, the same applies to many private pensions. I and other retired Civil Servants still have our State Pensions frozen if we live in countries such as Thailand.

Edited March 4, 2012 by theoldgit

[bendix]

It should not be forgotten that somewhere along the way politicians made this rule about the freezing of the pension if you moved abroad to country that is either outside the EU or does not have a reciprical arrangement with UK. They along with UK civil servants excluded themselves from this rule, they still get the inflation increases on their pensions wherever they may choose to live.

One rule for one and one for another, the taxpayer pays, oh thats me and you then.

As someone recently said "The worlds not fair."

It's hard to know where to start picking this to bits, because it's written from the basis of a complete lack of understanding of the difference between the civil service PRIVATE pension plan, and a state benefit.

Unbelievable. The level of critical thinking about this issues is so weak.

[mrtoad]

It should not be forgotten that somewhere along the way politicians made this rule about the freezing of the pension if you moved abroad to country that is either outside the EU or does not have a reciprical arrangement with UK. They along with UK civil servants excluded themselves from this rule, they still get the inflation increases on their pensions wherever they may choose to live.

One rule for one and one for another, the taxpayer pays, oh thats me and you then.

As someone recently said "The worlds not fair."

It's hard to know where to start picking this to bits, because it's written from the basis of a complete lack of understanding of the difference between the civil service PRIVATE pension plan, and a state benefit.

Unbelievable. The level of critical thinking about this issues is so weak.

It's one of those things that some people seem to take issue that civil servants get treated differently. The pension is entirely different to the state pension. Of course some will say that civil service pensions are far too generous, but that's a different issue, and after all they also pay Tax. There have been over he last few years quite a few changes to the civil service pensions, and there is currently a large issue brewing over NHS pensions. It's all about scapegoating IMO.

[GuestHouse]

It's one of those things that some people seem to take issue that civil servants get treated differently. The pension is entirely different to the state pension. Of course some will say that civil service pensions are far too generous, but that's a different issue, and after all they also pay Tax. There have been over he last few years quite a few changes to the civil service pensions, and there is currently a large issue brewing over NHS pensions. It's all about scapegoating IMO.

I don't think its scapegoating, rather the mobilisation of "Spite and Envy" in a sustained attack on the pensions that allow people to retire early.

The UK Government and Nu Labour before it are very aware that allowing people to amass enough money in pensions to retire early is not good for the state coffers.

The people who have company/government/private pensions generally earn more than people who do not, they generally are not drawing any welfare payments (they are contributors not takers) and allowing these tax cows to retire is cutting off a vital income stream.

[steve187]

I'm trying to raise the issue of communication, the UK Pensions system is not fine if it can't pass information from one office to another.

If they freeze my pension why can't they also freeze the exchange rate as they claim it's a 'benefit in kind' ( This question is a joke!!)

Good lets hope they stay that way when i am here permanently, I like incompetence it helps me keep one step ahead. Id steal form any govt beacsue lets face it they will screw you over without a care in the world.

I don;'t see why you elected them, if you trust the government so little.

I get fed up with people who come up with any trumped-up excuse to justify their own dishonesty.

I have found the UK tax authorities to be fair; its not the taxman's fault that other government departments spend profligately and set him unreasonable targets of revenue; nor does the revenue-man set the tax-bands; that is the exchequer that your elected government appoints. Unfortunately, people forget that the bread and circuses that were in the election manifestoes have to be paid for out of the other pocket.

Remember that a corporation never got to vote, and a bribe never elected a politician. The only people you can blame for your choice of government is yourselves.

SC

It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government get in.