You Think Thailand Is Bad? Try The Uk Pensions Lot!

[inthepink]

Correct,one would expect the poster if he has spent any amount of time or is in Thailand to have witnessed this first hand.

The same thing does occur in the UK also believe it or not.

I was talking about the UK government - that is what you said in your post - what has Thailand got to do with it?

The same principal applies globally I'm afraid,it's just that some countries are better than others at taking care of the dummies.

That has nothing to do with my comment though does it? You are trying to suggest that the UK government is to blame for some people's failure to accumulate any money, I am saying you are wrong.

[inthepink]

Doesn't come as a shock to me but they shouldn't blame the government because they have neither the intelligence or motivation to better themselves. I have heard countless idiots from the UK telling me how superior the British education system is to the Thai education system so what's their excuse for not applying themselves and taking advantage of that fact?

I didn't think the UK government was in charge of handing out intelligence.

If you are stupid, nothing can change that, no matter what you spend on education.

(unless the school is Eton, Harrow, Rugby, then you can still be stupid and make loads of money as an investment banker or MP)

If you are stupid then you are probably going to find it harder, although not impossible, to earn a lot of money.

Not a lot the government can do about that, as you say. However, the tools are supposedly there for those that are capable of using them, so I cannot see how anybody can possibly blame the UK government for their failure to become wealthy.

[F1fanatic]

I wish that everybody who has a UK state pension was entitled to the same where ever they choose to live,but with the current economic struggle things are only going to get worse,I pay my taxes and NI in the UK still,I'm 32 and worked since I left school,but the government want me to work until I am 67 or likely 70 for my pension is that fair.

Rather than worry about if it's fair, make it a non-issue by making your own provisions for retirement and dont rely on the state. Then you can retire at whatever age you like.

The retirement age in the UK is NOT 67 or 70. The age at which you receive a state pension is 67 and rising. You can retire at any age you like.

I can't think of a better incentive for saving yourself, rather than be subject to the political and economic whims of governments 9000 miles away.

Good advice IF you are earning enough to pay one of the (thieving) UK private pension providers for a private pension.

Unfortunately, many in the UK do not earn enough nowadays and, things are getting worse...

The old excuse, trotted out time and time again.

People make their own choices in life. Those same people who are earning so little that they can't tuck away 5% of their income are probably sitting at home watching flatscreen tvs, thinking its their right to have overseas holidays, head to the pub or restaurant a couple of times a week, eat processed food rather than making their own and drive a couple of cars.

We have forty years working life. If people can't plan ahead a little, then we're in a sorry state.

"Tucking away 5% of their income" to a private pension provider will provide even those on average salaries a pitiful pension!

Times have changed and, now that companies rarely provide the sort of pensions I was lucky enough to enjoy, the private pension providers are making the most of it by charging outrageous fees.

[stoneyboy]

Correct,one would expect the poster if he has spent any amount of time or is in Thailand to have witnessed this first hand.

The same thing does occur in the UK also believe it or not.

I was talking about the UK government - that is what you said in your post - what has Thailand got to do with it?

The same principal applies globally I'm afraid,it's just that some countries are better than others at taking care of the dummies.

That has nothing to do with my comment though does it? You are trying to suggest that the UK government is to blame for some people's failure to accumulate any money, I am saying you are wrong.

Well naturally,pay people a real wage as opposed to sheckles and people might have a chance to accumulate money,give people a break on diesel and petrol prices,step in where possible,sadly the divide is widening,it's the have everything's and the have nothing's.

Promote saving for the future in a fashion where the returns are worth while,don't miss sell folk crappy pensions and tell them its ok,don't bale out the banks with tax payers money.

[inthepink]

Well naturally,pay people a real wage as opposed to sheckles and people might have a chance to accumulate money,give people a break on diesel and petrol prices,step in where possible,sadly the divide is widening,it's the have everything's and the have nothing's.

Promote saving for the future in a fashion where the returns are worth while,don't miss sell folk crappy pensions and tell them its ok,don't bale out the banks with tax payers money.

The government don't set wages for every company in the country, they already step in and help people far too often in my opinion, they had no real choice but to lower the official bank rate to its current level and as far as I am aware they don't sell pensions do they?

If they didn't bail out banks with taxpayers' money you would probably be moaning that people had lost their life savings because the government were too heartless to help.

Edited February 21, 2012 by inthepink

[bendix]

"Tucking away 5% of their income" to a private pension provider will provide even those on average salaries a pitiful pension!

Times have changed and, now that companies rarely provide the sort of pensions I was lucky enough to enjoy, the private pension providers are making the most of it by charging outrageous fees.

True. 10% is better and increased over time, but over 40 years even 5 points will do it. In fact, start early enough and you can stop contributing at 40 and still get on ok.

Fees? I pay 0.5% management fee. Hardly punitive.

[theblether]

I think we're needing a Brits in Thailand forum, possibly sub-titled Wingeing Brits in Thailand.

[stoneyboy]

Well naturally,pay people a real wage as opposed to sheckles and people might have a chance to accumulate money,give people a break on diesel and petrol prices,step in where possible,sadly the divide is widening,it's the have everything's and the have nothing's.

Promote saving for the future in a fashion where the returns are worth while,don't miss sell folk crappy pensions and tell them its ok,don't bale out the banks with tax payers money.

The government don't set wages for every company in the country, they already step in and help people far too often in my opinion, they had no real choice but to lower the official bank rate to its current level and as far as I am aware they don't sell pensions do they?

If they didn't bail out banks with taxpayers' money you would probably be moaning that people had lost their life savings because the government were too heartless to help.

But the problem is not enough people can and do save for the future,this is evident as the whole system is starting to crumble,hence all this need for the govt helping people out,it's not going to happen,to few people are subsidising to many and it's failing.

Hence why the OP is moaning that his pension doesn't increase here.

[F1fanatic]

Well naturally,pay people a real wage as opposed to sheckles and people might have a chance to accumulate money,give people a break on diesel and petrol prices,step in where possible,sadly the divide is widening,it's the have everything's and the have nothing's.

Promote saving for the future in a fashion where the returns are worth while,don't miss sell folk crappy pensions and tell them its ok,don't bale out the banks with tax payers money.

The government don't set wages for every company in the country, they already step in and help people far too often in my opinion, they had no real choice but to lower the official bank rate to its current level and as far as I am aware they don't sell pensions do they?

If they didn't bail out banks with taxpayers' money you would probably be moaning that people had lost their life savings because the government were too heartless to help.

Heavy sigh... when I was young the salaries paid to those around me were 'good' salaries. As time went on, the salaries became closer to the 'average' and eventually those doing the same job as I had previously, were paid peanuts....

The top people in companies became greedy at the expense of those below them.

[F1fanatic]

"Tucking away 5% of their income" to a private pension provider will provide even those on average salaries a pitiful pension!

Times have changed and, now that companies rarely provide the sort of pensions I was lucky enough to enjoy, the private pension providers are making the most of it by charging outrageous fees.

True. 10% is better and increased over time, but over 40 years even 5 points will do it. In fact, start early enough and you can stop contributing at 40 and still get on ok.

Fees? I pay 0.5% management fee. Hardly punitive.

On the 'average' UK salary you believe a 5% pension contribution will pay for a reasonable pension??

Check out how much the same amount paid towards a private pension plan in other EU countries will provide compared to the same amount paid in to a Brit pension provider...

[inthepink]

Well naturally,pay people a real wage as opposed to sheckles and people might have a chance to accumulate money,give people a break on diesel and petrol prices,step in where possible,sadly the divide is widening,it's the have everything's and the have nothing's.

Promote saving for the future in a fashion where the returns are worth while,don't miss sell folk crappy pensions and tell them its ok,don't bale out the banks with tax payers money.

The government don't set wages for every company in the country, they already step in and help people far too often in my opinion, they had no real choice but to lower the official bank rate to its current level and as far as I am aware they don't sell pensions do they?

If they didn't bail out banks with taxpayers' money you would probably be moaning that people had lost their life savings because the government were too heartless to help.

But the problem is not enough people can and do save for the future,this is evident as the whole system is starting to crumble,hence all this need for the govt helping people out,it's not going to happen,to few people are subsidising to many and it's failing.

Hence why the OP is moaning that his pension doesn't increase here.

Well, that's still not relevant to your original comment and my reply. You said the government keeps people poor and I disagreed. Then you said they should help more and now you are saying they can't afford to - you're not making any sense.

[inthepink]

Well naturally,pay people a real wage as opposed to sheckles and people might have a chance to accumulate money,give people a break on diesel and petrol prices,step in where possible,sadly the divide is widening,it's the have everything's and the have nothing's.

Promote saving for the future in a fashion where the returns are worth while,don't miss sell folk crappy pensions and tell them its ok,don't bale out the banks with tax payers money.

The government don't set wages for every company in the country, they already step in and help people far too often in my opinion, they had no real choice but to lower the official bank rate to its current level and as far as I am aware they don't sell pensions do they?

If they didn't bail out banks with taxpayers' money you would probably be moaning that people had lost their life savings because the government were too heartless to help.

Heavy sigh... when I was young the salaries paid to those around me were 'good' salaries. As time went on, the salaries became closer to the 'average' and eventually those doing the same job as I had previously, were paid peanuts....

The top people in companies became greedy at the expense of those below them.

What does that have to do with the government?

[F1fanatic]

Well naturally,pay people a real wage as opposed to sheckles and people might have a chance to accumulate money,give people a break on diesel and petrol prices,step in where possible,sadly the divide is widening,it's the have everything's and the have nothing's.

Promote saving for the future in a fashion where the returns are worth while,don't miss sell folk crappy pensions and tell them its ok,don't bale out the banks with tax payers money.

The government don't set wages for every company in the country, they already step in and help people far too often in my opinion, they had no real choice but to lower the official bank rate to its current level and as far as I am aware they don't sell pensions do they?

If they didn't bail out banks with taxpayers' money you would probably be moaning that people had lost their life savings because the government were too heartless to help.

Heavy sigh... when I was young the salaries paid to those around me were 'good' salaries. As time went on, the salaries became closer to the 'average' and eventually those doing the same job as I had previously, were paid peanuts....

The top people in companies became greedy at the expense of those below them.

What does that have to do with the government?

The government not only allowed, but encouraged the companies to behave this way.

Cedric Brown springs to mind...

Edit - our politicians were 'feathering' their own beds either at the time, or in the future when they were looking forward to lucrative directorships..

Edited February 21, 2012 by F1fanatic

[bendix]

"Tucking away 5% of their income" to a private pension provider will provide even those on average salaries a pitiful pension!

Times have changed and, now that companies rarely provide the sort of pensions I was lucky enough to enjoy, the private pension providers are making the most of it by charging outrageous fees.

True. 10% is better and increased over time, but over 40 years even 5 points will do it. In fact, start early enough and you can stop contributing at 40 and still get on ok.

Fees? I pay 0.5% management fee. Hardly punitive.

On the 'average' UK salary you believe a 5% pension contribution will pay for a reasonable pension??

Check out how much the same amount paid towards a private pension plan in other EU countries will provide compared to the same amount paid in to a Brit pension provider...

A 21 year old on, say, 20k a year can expect his income to increase by inflation and progress over 45 years working life. If he commits to saving 5% of that, matched by the tax allowance, he would have a very good pension pot after forty five years, taking into account the powers of compound returns.

It's an acturial fact.

[inthepink]

The government not only allowed, but encouraged the companies to behave this way.

Cedric Brown springs to mind...

Edit - our politicians were 'feathering' their own beds either at the time, or in the future when they were looking forward to lucrative directorships..

The government are not responsible for how much private companies pay their employees though, so I am not sure what you mean by "allowed"? If you believe the government should have jurisdiction over how much companies pay their staff, I think you are crazy.

P.S. What the hell is this number of opening / closing tags error that keeps appearing? I have to edit all my posts to avoid it.

Edit - Neither did the government decide Cedric Brown's salary - and didn't he work his way up from the bottom? I would have thought he was a working class hero... or are people only heroes in the UK until they actually succeed at anything?

Edited February 21, 2012 by inthepink

[transam]

I wish that everybody who has a UK state pension was entitled to the same where ever they choose to live,but with the current economic struggle things are only going to get worse,I pay my taxes and NI in the UK still,I'm 32 and worked since I left school,but the government want me to work until I am 67 or likely 70 for my pension is that fair.

Rather than worry about if it's fair, make it a non-issue by making your own provisions for retirement and dont rely on the state. Then you can retire at whatever age you like.

The retirement age in the UK is NOT 67 or 70. The age at which you receive a state pension is 67 and rising. You can retire at any age you like.

I can't think of a better incentive for saving yourself, rather than be subject to the political and economic whims of governments 9000 miles away.

How old are you ? Be truthful and state your jobs pension fund.

[Forkinhades]

"Tucking away 5% of their income" to a private pension provider will provide even those on average salaries a pitiful pension!

Times have changed and, now that companies rarely provide the sort of pensions I was lucky enough to enjoy, the private pension providers are making the most of it by charging outrageous fees.

True. 10% is better and increased over time, but over 40 years even 5 points will do it. In fact, start early enough and you can stop contributing at 40 and still get on ok.

Fees? I pay 0.5% management fee. Hardly punitive.

On the 'average' UK salary you believe a 5% pension contribution will pay for a reasonable pension??

Check out how much the same amount paid towards a private pension plan in other EU countries will provide compared to the same amount paid in to a Brit pension provider...

A 21 year old on, say, 20k a year can expect his income to increase by inflation and progress over 45 years working life. If he commits to saving 5% of that, matched by the tax allowance, he would have a very good pension pot after forty five years, taking into account the powers of compound returns.

It's an acturial fact.

Actuarial science is the discipline that applies mathematical and statistical methods to assess risk in the insurance and finance industries.Actuaries are professionals who are qualified in this field through education and experience. In many countries, actuaries must demonstrate their competence by passing a series of rigorous professional examinations

[F1fanatic]

The government not only allowed, but encouraged the companies to behave this way.

Cedric Brown springs to mind...

Edit - our politicians were 'feathering' their own beds either at the time, or in the future when they were looking forward to lucrative directorships..

The government are not responsible for how much private companies pay their employees though, so I am not sure what you mean by "allowed"? If you believe the government should have jurisdiction over how much companies pay their staff, I think you are crazy.

P.S. What the hell is this number of opening / closing tags error that keeps appearing? I have to edit all my posts to avoid it.

Edit - Neither did the government decide Cedric Brown's salary - and didn't he work his way up from the bottom? I would have thought he was a working class hero... or are people only heroes in the UK until they actually succeed at anything?

You obviously have not seen the changes that I have witnessed. And yes, the government should have stopped it.

More recently, the government raided the private pension funds of companies and - suprise, suprise, the companies either stopped those schemes or reduced the benefits to new employees.

Cedric Brown ran British Gas when it was a nationalised company. It was then privatised, he sacked hundreds (thousands?) of low-paid workers and increased his salary by the amount they had lost. A true 'working class' hero.

[GuestHouse]

This is probably too late but I'll tell you the advice my father gave me, the same advice I give to my children.

"do not expect the government to do anything for you - don't put your hand out unless it is the last option you have and if you do put your hand out be aware anything the government does give you comes with barbed hooks attached'"

Oh... and .... "Pay attention at school"

[inthepink]

The government not only allowed, but encouraged the companies to behave this way.

Cedric Brown springs to mind...

Edit - our politicians were 'feathering' their own beds either at the time, or in the future when they were looking forward to lucrative directorships..

The government are not responsible for how much private companies pay their employees though, so I am not sure what you mean by "allowed"? If you believe the government should have jurisdiction over how much companies pay their staff, I think you are crazy.

P.S. What the hell is this number of opening / closing tags error that keeps appearing? I have to edit all my posts to avoid it.

Edit - Neither did the government decide Cedric Brown's salary - and didn't he work his way up from the bottom? I would have thought he was a working class hero... or are people only heroes in the UK until they actually succeed at anything?

You obviously have not seen the changes that I have witnessed. And yes, the government should have stopped it.

More recently, the government raided the private pension funds of companies and - suprise, suprise, the companies either stopped those schemes or reduced the benefits to new employees.

Cedric Brown ran British Gas when it was a nationalised company. It was then privatised, he sacked hundreds (thousands?) of low-paid workers and increased his salary by the amount they had lost. A true 'working class' hero.

Hmmm...let the government start interfering with private companies salaries and you would wave good bye to a lot of foreign investment.

I agree, Gordon Brown shouldn't have taken money from private pension funds but the Labour Party has a long history of financial mismanagement. Still, they wouldn't keep getting into power if people didn't keep voting for them.

[taff33]

I'm 65 in April,last September I notified UK pensions of my address in Thailand,later they sent me the forms to make a claim,sent them back to them and have now had my monthly payment amount to be started paying in May,no probs.They also sent me a letter saying that a company that I worked for in the 60's-70's are trying to get in touch with me to pay me a pension.I can't fault the UK pension system at all.

[F1fanatic]

The government not only allowed, but encouraged the companies to behave this way.

Cedric Brown springs to mind...

Edit - our politicians were 'feathering' their own beds either at the time, or in the future when they were looking forward to lucrative directorships..

The government are not responsible for how much private companies pay their employees though, so I am not sure what you mean by "allowed"? If you believe the government should have jurisdiction over how much companies pay their staff, I think you are crazy.

P.S. What the hell is this number of opening / closing tags error that keeps appearing? I have to edit all my posts to avoid it.

Edit - Neither did the government decide Cedric Brown's salary - and didn't he work his way up from the bottom? I would have thought he was a working class hero... or are people only heroes in the UK until they actually succeed at anything?

You obviously have not seen the changes that I have witnessed. And yes, the government should have stopped it.

More recently, the government raided the private pension funds of companies and - suprise, suprise, the companies either stopped those schemes or reduced the benefits to new employees.

Cedric Brown ran British Gas when it was a nationalised company. It was then privatised, he sacked hundreds (thousands?) of low-paid workers and increased his salary by the amount they had lost. A true 'working class' hero.

Hmmm...let the government start interfering with private companies salaries and you would wave good bye to a lot of foreign investment.

I agree, Gordon Brown shouldn't have taken money from private pension funds but the Labour Party has a long history of financial mismanagement. Still, they wouldn't keep getting into power if people didn't keep voting for them.

So that's the reason why salaries have been reduced (excluding of course, the executives and directors).

I'm sure most Brits who are suffering now will be v grateful realising that things could have been far worse if not for the foreign investors.

But then again, the company to which I am referring had no need of foreign investors - they were doing very nicely thank you.... They just decided it was preferable to increase profits by reducing salaries.

Edit - a bit like a very profitable company (was it BP?) that recently decided to get rid of their company pension scheme as it was 'out of line' with their competitors...

Edited February 21, 2012 by F1fanatic

[GuestHouse]

Brits between the ages of 50 and 70 (that's the old gits whinging about pensions) have been raised in a welfare state, left school at a time of full employment, had free higher education if they had payed enough attention in school to pass selection, alternatively had access to apprenticeships, lived through decades of increasing personal wealth, rising house prices, had access to jobs with defined benefit pensions...basically this demographic group have had oportunity and wealth handed them on a plate.

If you're a Brit coming up to retirement and the only pension daving you have is the state pension then you must have ducked, ignored or squandered the multitude of oportunities handed to you over decades.

Now you want us to listen to "it's 'snot fair"

Edited February 21, 2012 by GuestHouse

[MAJIC]

I think we're needing a Brits in Thailand forum, possibly sub-titled Wingeing Brits in Thailand.

Talking of wingeing,there are others on tv,that can be likened to Arthritus: a constant pain, with no benefit to the victim.

[transam]

Brits between the ages of 50 and 70 (that's the old gits whinging about pensions) have been raised in a welfare state, left school at a time of full employment, had free higher edication if they had payed enough attention in school to pass selection, alternatively had access to apprenticeships, lived through decades of increasing personal wealth, rising house prices, had access to jobs with defined benefit pensions...basically this demographic group have had oportunity and wealth handed them on a plate.

If you're a Brit coming up to retirement and the only pension daving you have is the state pension then you must have ducked, ignored or squandered the multitude of oportunities handed to you over decades.

Now you want us to listen to "it's 'snot fair"

, so we were all born with a high IQ like you eh. God, words fail me Dave.

[inthepink]

So that's the reason why salaries have been reduced (excluding of course, the executives and directors).

I'm sure most Brits who are suffering now will be v grateful realising that things could have been far worse if not for the foreign investors.

But then again, the company to which I am referring had no need of foreign investors - they were doing very nicely thank you.... They just decided it was preferable to increase profits by reducing salaries.

Edit - a bit like a very profitable company (was it BP?) that recently decided to get rid of their company pension scheme as it was 'out of line' with their competitors...

You're taking a rather simplistic view of things. I am not referring to foreign investors in any specific company but no overseas firms would be interested in operating in the UK if they thought that the government was going to interfere with their wage structure, which would have an enormous impact on the economy. By the way, if somebody thinks that their employer is not paying them enough there's a simple solution: leave. It's a free market economy.

[F1fanatic]

So that's the reason why salaries have been reduced (excluding of course, the executives and directors).

I'm sure most Brits who are suffering now will be v grateful realising that things could have been far worse if not for the foreign investors.

But then again, the company to which I am referring had no need of foreign investors - they were doing very nicely thank you.... They just decided it was preferable to increase profits by reducing salaries.

Edit - a bit like a very profitable company (was it BP?) that recently decided to get rid of their company pension scheme as it was 'out of line' with their competitors...

You're taking a rather simplistic view of things. I am not referring to foreign investors in any specific company but no overseas firms would be interested in operating in the UK if they thought that the government was going to interfere with their wage structure, which would have an enormous impact on the economy. By the way, if somebody thinks that their employer is not paying them enough there's a simple solution: leave. It's a free market economy.

You're right .

I can remember how I volunteered for voluntary redundany at the company concerned as, having worked there for 20 years the pay-off was, even then, great.

After a couple of years I decided it was time to go back to work. Shock doesn't begin to descibe how horrified I was at how salaries had been reduced!

But I can understand it. Any reasonable person will understand why those at the top need to be paid ludlcrous salaries to 'attract the right person', whilst those at the bottom are 'pricing themselves out of a job'.

[inthepink]

I'm still not sure what you expect the government in the UK to do about the problems you perceive. My original comment, to another poster, was that people shouldn't blame the government for their own lack of success. You seem to have an axe to grind with large corporations, or perhaps you don't like the system of capitalism at all, I'm not sure.

Edited February 21, 2012 by inthepink

[transam]

I'm still not sure what you expect the government in the UK to do about the problems you perceive.

The ordinary UK guy in the street, worked, paid his dues, doesn't give a shit about Iraq or Afghanistan or folk trying to get into the UK for the freebee's, they just want to be looked after on retirement as is written in legislation. NOT want to listen about, OH the UK must now take care of poor EU countries or Africa, and some that retire on a state pension many years before UK folk, all <deleted>.

UK work force has worked, strike-d and fought for what it has BUT sadly taking care of the non natives with a problem is more important.

[inthepink]

I'm still not sure what you expect the government in the UK to do about the problems you perceive.

The ordinary UK guy in the street, worked, paid his dues, doesn't give a shit about Iraq or Afghanistan or folk trying to get into the UK for the freebee's, they just want to be looked after on retirement as is written in legislation. NOT want to listen about, OH the UK must now take care of poor EU countries or Africa, and some that retire on a state pension many years before UK folk, all <deleted>.

UK work force has worked, strike-d and fought for what it has BUT sadly taking care of the non natives with a problem is more important.

Then the ordinary guy in the street should organise his own pension. Never mind paying for non-natives, I used to object to having to subsidise the wastrels that lived in the sprawling council estates nearby. Didn't do me much good though.