What Happens To The House If My Wife Dies

[kriswillems]

My wife owns a house (which she fully paid by her).

What will happen to the house if my wife dies? Her parents are still alive, she has a brother and we've a 4 years old son.

Should we make a will or usefruct?

PS. my wife is still in good health and I hope I'll die first

[JohnC]

She needs to make a will

[Boo]

wrong section. moved to housing forum.

[Khun Jean]

She needs to make a will and you should get a usufruct.

[necronx99]

There are a couple of things to consider.

• Ownership of the land.
  
• Ownership of the house.
  
• Who will inherit, you can own the house but not the land, if you inherit the land you will need to sell it within a year.
  
• Ensuring your right to occupy should she go before you.
  

An usufuct does not legally give you the right to occupy only to use, though it is traditionally seen that way. Legally it can be challenged depending on who ends up owning the land as the rights of use it confers are not rights open to a foreigner.

I believe something more complicated is required.

[kriswillems]

THanks, so can I sell the house to my son? Or will the house go to her parents when my son in still not an adult?

[Khun Jean]

I think something extremely simple is better.

if you make it complicated it is open for interpretation. And we all know when people start to interpret things really get complicated.

The will just states everything she owns goes to her son.

She has to give a usufruct to her husband.

Ready.

If somehow you would want to be able to sell your wifes house then instead of willing it to her son she wills it to her husband.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Khun Jean

[billd766]

Please, please get your wife to make a will and you do also and do it as soon as you can.

It took me nearly 2 years of being polite, sarcastic (doesn't work on Thais), loud, overbearing and ass kicking for her to do it, plus another 2 months to get it translated.

Then get them both translated into English and Thai and lodge one copy of each with the Amphur.

Get your wife to leave the house and land to your son.

If you are the legal father of the child registered on the childs birth certificate get your wife to name you as the legal guardian of the child.

If your wife should die before you then the house and land are in your son's name and as you are the legal guardian so you act in his name.

It also means that you will still be able to have a visa extension on family grounds as the parent of a Thai child and you can live in the house on the land and nobody can force you out.

You should not need an usufruct or anything else as it is in your son's name and it can only be sold or disposed of through the courts and only then if the judge thinks that is in the best interest of the child.

I have posted on this before but I cannot remember in which thread it was.

If you need any further help or information please pm me and I will do my best.

[necronx99]

Please, please get your wife to make a will and you do also and do it as soon as you can.

It took me nearly 2 years of being polite, sarcastic (doesn't work on Thais), loud, overbearing and ass kicking for her to do it, plus another 2 months to get it translated.

Then get them both translated into English and Thai and lodge one copy of each with the Amphur.

Get your wife to leave the house and land to your son.

If you are the legal father of the child registered on the childs birth certificate get your wife to name you as the legal guardian of the child.

If your wife should die before you then the house and land are in your son's name and as you are the legal guardian so you act in his name.

It also means that you will still be able to have a visa extension on family grounds as the parent of a Thai child and you can live in the house on the land and nobody can force you out.

You should not need an usufruct or anything else as it is in your son's name and it can only be sold or disposed of through the courts and only then if the judge thinks that is in the best interest of the child.

I have posted on this before but I cannot remember in which thread it was.

If you need any further help or information please pm me and I will do my best.

Please consider the unfortunate case of the child also passing.

[tutsiwarrior]

does the husband's usufruct have to be stated in the wife's will? it already appears on the chanote for the property regardless of who inherits...

my wife wants her 18y.o.daughter to inherit the property which is OK by me and I support the idea of a will in that regard and I don't worry about my right to remain on the premises in the event of my wife's demise...

[cardholder]

does the husband's usufruct have to be stated in the wife's will? it already appears on the chanote for the property regardless of who inherits...

my wife wants her 18y.o.daughter to inherit the property which is OK by me and I support the idea of a will in that regard and I don't worry about my right to remain on the premises in the event of my wife's demise...

No. Being on the chanote is sufficient

[cardholder]

Please, please get your wife to make a will and you do also and do it as soon as you can.

It took me nearly 2 years of being polite, sarcastic (doesn't work on Thais), loud, overbearing and ass kicking for her to do it, plus another 2 months to get it translated.

Then get them both translated into English and Thai and lodge one copy of each with the Amphur.

Get your wife to leave the house and land to your son.

If you are the legal father of the child registered on the childs birth certificate get your wife to name you as the legal guardian of the child.

If your wife should die before you then the house and land are in your son's name and as you are the legal guardian so you act in his name.

It also means that you will still be able to have a visa extension on family grounds as the parent of a Thai child and you can live in the house on the land and nobody can force you out.

You should not need an usufruct or anything else as it is in your son's name and it can only be sold or disposed of through the courts and only then if the judge thinks that is in the best interest of the child.

I have posted on this before but I cannot remember in which thread it was.

If you need any further help or information please pm me and I will do my best.

Please consider the unfortunate case of the child also passing.

... and what about him reaching the age of majority ?

[kriswillems]

Thank you very much for the explanation. I just wonder what would happen in case we don't make a will.

Will the house not automatically go to my son? (since I have no right to own land).

And am I not automatically the legal guardian because I am the father?

So, we've to register a will at the amphur and not at the land department, right? Last time we were at the land department they said they could do it over there ....?

I've a usefruct on (other) land my wife owns. It was very easy and cheap procedure and no translations were necessary because I can read Thai. Can we also make a will without making translations to English?

Edited February 23, 2012 by kriswillems

[donx]

Thank you very much for the explanation. I just wonder what would happen in case we don't make a will.

Will the house not automatically go to my son? (since I have no right to own land).

And am I not automatically the legal guardian because I am the father?

So, we've to register a will at the amphur and not at the land department, right? Last time we were at the land department they said they could do it over there ....?

I've a usefruct on (other) land my wife owns. It was very easy and cheap procedure and no translations were necessary because I can read Thai. Can we also make a will without making translations to English?

The short answer is No to the first few questions. View the various threads on here regarding wills and inheritance. For example, if your spouse's parents are alive they are automatically included in part the inheritance in the absence of a will.

Edited February 23, 2012 by donx

[MANICMINER]

if you have a will, the obvious thing would be to give the house/land to your son, as foreigners cannot own land. if you have no will, you can be granted permission by the courts to sell the house or transfer it to your son. As far as usufructs are concerned, it seems the law firms only started peddling them after the 'start a company' route was stopped, because they made more money thay way. prior to that, there was no mention of usufructs. whether they will stand up in a court of law, i do not know, but if it helps you sleep at night, go for it.

[ballbreaker]

OP Google thailawonline and then under Thai Laws tab select Civil code and then read book 6 (Succession) and you will find your answers.

You both should write a will to prevent someone trying to alter your wishes in court should either of you die.

[cardholder]

if you have a will, the obvious thing would be to give the house/land to your son, as foreigners cannot own land. if you have no will, you can be granted permission by the courts to sell the house or transfer it to your son. As far as usufructs are concerned, it seems the law firms only started peddling them after the 'start a company' route was stopped, because they made more money thay way. prior to that, there was no mention of usufructs. whether they will stand up in a court of law, i do not know, but if it helps you sleep at night, go for it.

I understand that they have stood up in court.

More importantly, it makes it difficult to transfer a chanote with a properlyregistered usufruct attached.

[MANICMINER]

if they have stood up in court, all those years that the law firms were selling companies to foreigners, they were basically lying to their clients. i enquired many years ago how much it would cost to start a company, and i think it was about 30k baht to start up, plus annual charges - i think it is obvious why there was no mention of usufructs then. i trust lawyers about as much as bankers and politicians!

[streetlite]

Interesting. My wife bought the 1/4 acres when married to her Thai husband, since divorced. His name is in the blue book and cannot be removed. Her name has changed to my last name upon marriage and I have a yellow book listing my address. Can the previous husband claim the house upon the death of my wife?

[donx]

streetlite, the blue book is not the land title. It indicates who resides at the location and is used for such things as determining where a Thai is supposed to vote during an election. Does the ex-husband still reside there? If not, then he should be removed from the blue book. Perhaps his children are living there and he is still considered their legal guardians?

Whether he is listed in the blue book or not has nothing to do with his legal right to the land. The question is who is listed on the Chanote or whatever other land title there is. Find that out and you should have your answer. If only your wife is listed then you are OK. If not, then get that corrected.

[thaiwanderer]

if you have a will, the obvious thing would be to give the house/land to your son, as foreigners cannot own land. if you have no will, you can be granted permission by the courts to sell the house or transfer it to your son. As far as usufructs are concerned, it seems the law firms only started peddling them after the 'start a company' route was stopped, because they made more money thay way. prior to that, there was no mention of usufructs. whether they will stand up in a court of law, i do not know, but if it helps you sleep at night, go for it.

I understand that they have stood up in court.

More importantly, it makes it difficult to transfer a chanote with a properlyregistered usufruct attached.

Of course they have 'stood up' and tehy do have their uses if properly understood, but this doesn't translate into all usufructs doing all that is now claimed for them - including by law firms posting on this forum.

A properly registered usufruct does not in any way make chanote transfer difficult. Less attractive but not at all difficult.

Edited February 27, 2012 by thaiwanderer

[chiangmaibruce]

A properly registered usufruct does not in any way make chanote transfer difficult. Less attractive but not at all difficult.

Except where the transfer is to a minor

Manicminer: Your post is a bit confusing (as are many in this thread) but if a farang is left a property in a will then he/she doesn't need the court's permission to sell or transfer it. That situation only occurs when the property is left to a minor and then the guardian wishes to sell it

Edited March 6, 2012 by chiangmaibruce

[chiangmaibruce]

Please consider the unfortunate case of the child also passing.

Or the wife simply changing her mind and changing the will (either known or unknown to you at the time)

[billd766]

A properly registered usufruct does not in any way make chanote transfer difficult. Less attractive but not at all difficult.

Except where the transfer is to a minor

Manicminer: Your post is a bit confusing (as are many in this thread) but if a farang is left a property in a will then he/she doesn't need the court's permission to sell or transfer it. That situation only occurs when the property is left to a minor and then the guardian wishes to sell it

Under Thai law if the house and land are left to the farang by Thai law he MUST sell it within a year.

He can possibly still own the house but if the new owner of the land refuses to accept the usufruct, what happens then?

Also what would happen if he cannot find a buyer?

Foreigners as statutory heir or inheritor under will of land

Section 93 of the Land Code Act: "A foreigner who acquires land by inheritance as statutory heir can have an ownership in such land upon a permission of the Minister of Interior. However, the total plots of land shall not be exceeding of those specified in Section 87".

Any foreigner who is married to a Thai national is under section 1629 a statutory heir (i.e heirs who are so entitled by Thai law) and can apply for permission of ownership of inherited land from his Thai spouse pursuant to section 93 of the Land Code Act, however ownership will not be allowed. The over fifty year old Section 93 of the Land Code Act is written for inheritance of land by foreigners under a treaty (section 86 of the Land Code Act) and does not apply to foreigners acquiring land by inheritance from a Thai spouse. There is currently no treaty with any country allowing foreigners to own land therefore no Minister of Interior will or can give permission to any foreigner to own land in Thailand. Note that it is only since 1999 that Thai nationals married to a foreigner are legally allowed to acquire land (read up).

The answer to the question 'can a foreigner inherit land in Thailand' is yes, as a statutory heir, but he cannot register ownership of the land because he will not be given permission. Under present law he must dispose of the land within a reasonable period (meaning up to 1 year) to a Thai national. If the foreigner fails to dispose of the land the Director-General of the Land Department is authorized to dispose of the land and retain a fee of 5% of the sale price before any deductions or taxes.

[ballbreaker]

He can possibly still own the house but if the new owner of the land refuses to accept the usufruct, what happens then?

The new owner has no choice but to accept the usufruct.

I went through this last year when my wife died and before hand we had decided to give property to relative of wife since I could not own property and would be forced to sell within one year. At time of transfer my lawyer and official at land office explained to relative that although they would be the new owner I effectively would be the owner of property till my death because of the usufruct.