No Mangos

[Thailaw]

I have 3 mango trees in my garden, that I planted about 5 years ago and they are about 2.5 meters apart. The trees are now 7 to 8 meters tall. We got many flowers and fruit on the trees about 3 years ago. But for the last two seasons, the trees have produced no flowers or fruit -- none! I have fertilized the trees with 16-16-16 fertilizer about 3 times a year and water during the dry season. The trees appear very green, full of leaves and healtly, but no fruit. They get full sun. What am I doing wrong?

[ignis]

No idea......... do Mango trees need water ?

Just looking in the week, next house in the Village planted a mango tree is 8 years next month, normally is full of Mango's, now they both work in BKK leave 6 days a week at 4:45 am and return home around 9:40 - 10: 30 pm, so never water, I water the rest of there garden every other day but never the mango tree........... We had the floods, so the tree was sat in water for 6 weeks, notice there are No mango's this year.....

There again on the road there a a few people as normal this time of the year with there tables or tractor selling mango's and these places were also under water...........

Can't work it out, Banana's the trees normally sit in water 24/7, yet around here they all died, in my garden they also died and no new one have come up.

[Thailaw]

No idea......... do Mango trees need water ?

Just looking in the week, next house in the Village planted a mango tree is 8 years next month, normally is full of Mango's, now they both work in BKK leave 6 days a week at 4:45 am and return home around 9:40 - 10: 30 pm, so never water, I water the rest of there garden every other day but never the mango tree........... We had the floods, so the tree was sat in water for 6 weeks, notice there are No mango's this year.....

There again on the road there a a few people as normal this time of the year with there tables or tractor selling mango's and these places were also under water...........

Can't work it out, Banana's the trees normally sit in water 24/7, yet around here they all died, in my garden they also died and no new one have come up.

The problem is not, I think, flood related. We are outside Pattaya and there was no flooding problem here. It is true that mango trees have a rather deep tap root and do not require much watering, only perhaps during the dry season and then not frequently. I do not water the mango trees regularly and mostly to leach the fertilizer into the ground around the base of the trees. I have read that mango trees frequently flower and bear fruit only every other year, and that some people use salt to encourage flowering in the "off" year. My trees have not flowered for two consecutive years, so I am wondering what I am doing wrong. I will check at the local plant and garden supply shop for a chemical that will encourage the mango trees to flower, perhaps they have one. The trees themselves look very healthy and strong, but not a single flower.

[xen]

I suspect from what you say in your first post about fertilizer is that you could be fertilizing with that fertilizer (16-16-16) as the flowers are forming and the high nitrogen content is causing the flowers to drop off and the nitogen is then sending the mango tree into leaf. Lower the nitogen to minimum in ratio to magnesium and potasium at that time the flowers are forming or use a slow release fertilizer .

Also what is the bee population like in the area - are there many people using a lot of agricultural insectides that could be diminishing the bee population.

These are just two suggestions to a look at .

[Pacificperson]

Mango trees need the stress of a dry season to initiate flowering. Sometimes when the dry season is wetter than normal, they will not flower. You maybe watering too much during the dry season.

[soidog2]

# 1, prune the trees very aggressively ( if not sure how to do it, hire someone with experience; do not butcher the trees )

# 2, go to your local fertilizer store, ask what can they give you for a growth retardant, ( they need about 90 days of no growth for flowering ); apply correct measure.

# 3, after 90 or more days; it they do not flower naturally ( and it is not raining ) back to the fertilizer store, get a mango flowering agent & spray.

# 4, when the fruit is about pea size, spray again with calcium-boron. It will help you retain the fruit.

# 5, when the fruit starts growing in earnest, you will need to have a plan on how to deal with the fruit fly & other assorted visitors or you will not have any to eat.

If left untrimmed, they tend to flower & fruit every other year or less.

Mango season is now in full swing, you may want to wait a few month for the summer crop.

You put too much fertilizer, mango trees, unless very young, do not need watering.

Edited February 26, 2012 by soidog2

[Thailaw]

# 1, prune the trees very aggressively ( if not sure how to do it, hire someone with experience; do not butcher the trees )

# 2, go to your local fertilizer store, ask what can they give you for a growth retardant, ( they need about 90 days of no growth for flowering ); apply correct measure.

# 3, after 90 or more days; it they do not flower naturally ( and it is not raining ) back to the fertilizer store, get a mango flowering agent & spray.

# 4, when the fruit is about pea size, spray again with calcium-boron. It will help you retain the fruit.

# 5, when the fruit starts growing in earnest, you will need to have a plan on how to deal with the fruit fly & other assorted visitors or you will not have any to eat.

If left untrimmed, they tend to flower & fruit every other year or less.

Mango season is now in full swing, you may want to wait a few month for the summer crop.

You put too much fertilizer, mango trees, unless very young, do not need watering.

Very helpful post, thanks. I had thought I was over fertilizing -- my garden was growing like a jungle! I was using about 300 kg of 16-16-16 per year on 1 rai. I used this much because the soil here is very poor and sandy, and I thought that everything needed extra nourishment. I have cut the amount of fertilizer in half. I now put out 50 kg three times each year, but the gardener also fertilizes and sprays for insects each month, so I may need to cut back a bit more. I will have the trees trimmed back a bit. I will be pleased to get to the stage of dealing with fruit flies and other insects. I think I am too late for this year and will wait several months before doing anything, except pruning. You have given me a good plan, thanks again. TL

[Thailaw]

I suspect from what you say in your first post about fertilizer is that you could be fertilizing with that fertilizer (16-16-16) as the flowers are forming and the high nitrogen content is causing the flowers to drop off and the nitogen is then sending the mango tree into leaf. Lower the nitogen to minimum in ratio to magnesium and potasium at that time the flowers are forming or use a slow release fertilizer .

Also what is the bee population like in the area - are there many people using a lot of agricultural insectides that could be diminishing the bee population.

These are just two suggestions to a look at .

Thanks. There is a lot of leaf growth, but no flowers. They do not drop off, they do not form. I will try a different fertilizer for the mango trees, with little or no nitrogen. There are plenty of bees. There are several hives in the yard, in fact, one is in one of the mango trees. We leave the bees alone unless they try to build a hive driectly over a walking path, and the gardener has been told to leave them alone and not spray them (or the butterflies or bird nests).

[soidog2]

Normally you would spread about a large handfull of fertilizer for each tree, twice a year.

In your case, you should stop putting chemical fertilizers for at least two/three years.

Start adding organic compounds to condition your soil.

Regards

[Thailaw]

Normally you would spread about a large handfull of fertilizer for each tree, twice a year.

In your case, you should stop putting chemical fertilizers for at least two/three years.

Start adding organic compounds to condition your soil.

Regards

Thanks. I normally use the spike end of a long handled hoe to make 5 deep holes around each tree -- mango, coconut, avocados, foxtail, leelawadee, etc., and fill each of the holes with fertilizer. I would guess that this works out to 2 or three big handfuls per tree.I spread the remainder of a 50 kg bag of fertilizer around the garden on the bushes, plants and grass. I then heavily water each tree each day for the week following fertilizing. I do this 3 times each year, in November, April and July. I will switch to a low nitrogen, organic fertilizer if it is available. Is the timing of fertilizing a problem? Thanks.

[necronx99]

You could also check for fungal infections (black spots on the leaves)

[xen]

This may seem obvious but are your trees grafted cultivars or are they seedlings because even though some seedling will produce great fruit their fruiting may be irregular .

Also when i mentioned the nitrogen in the fertilizer you can use nitogen but after the fruiting has finished . But generally you are usually better of using oganic fertilisers such as manures etc. Feed the soil , not the tree.

[Thailaw]

This may seem obvious but are your trees grafted cultivars or are they seedlings because even though some seedling will produce great fruit their fruiting may be irregular .

Also when i mentioned the nitrogen in the fertilizer you can use nitogen but after the fruiting has finished . But generally you are usually better of using oganic fertilisers such as manures etc. Feed the soil , not the tree.

You may have identified the problem. I had no idea until recently when I started researching the problem that grafting was necessary with mango trees, as I know is necessary with avacado trees. I purchased 3 mango trees at Jatujak market on a Saturday afternoon in the plant area about 5 years ago. The trees were about 1.5 meters tall. I noticed no grafting/splicing scar on the trunk and I can see none now. The trees flowered and fruited well during the 2nd and 3rd years after planting in my garden, but as I have said, since then there has been nothing. Everyone said that the fruit was wonderful, and have missed the fruit for the past two years. If the trees are ungrafted trees, is pruning and proper fertilizing a "cure" or am I better to cut them down and start over with grafted trees? Thanks.

[soidog2]

This may seem obvious but are your trees grafted cultivars or are they seedlings because even though some seedling will produce great fruit their fruiting may be irregular .

Also when i mentioned the nitrogen in the fertilizer you can use nitogen but after the fruiting has finished . But generally you are usually better of using oganic fertilisers such as manures etc. Feed the soil , not the tree.

You may have identified the problem. I had no idea until recently when I started researching the problem that grafting was necessary with mango trees, as I know is necessary with avacado trees. I purchased 3 mango trees at Jatujak market on a Saturday afternoon in the plant area about 5 years ago. The trees were about 1.5 meters tall. I noticed no grafting/splicing scar on the trunk and I can see none now. The trees flowered and fruited well during the 2nd and 3rd years after planting in my garden, but as I have said, since then there has been nothing. Everyone said that the fruit was wonderful, and have missed the fruit for the past two years. If the trees are ungrafted trees, is pruning and proper fertilizing a "cure" or am I better to cut them down and start over with grafted trees? Thanks.

If you bought the trees at Chatuchak, 99% sure they are grafted. ( you should have removed the grafting tape. )

The proof is in the past fruiting, un-grafted seedlings simply do not flower & fruit.

Pruning is done to remove previous years fruiting growth & stimulate new fruiting.

You should time your pruning to about four month before the natural flowering season start in December.

When you become an expert, it can be done twice a year, for double fruiting.

Should fertilize after fruiting is finished, and again when fruit is smaller than an egg.

Never use nitrogen when the trees are flowering.

As others have said, adding organic manures to your soil will make chemical fertilizers unnecessary.

On healthy soils you would only need to spray specialized items for specific tasks ( like the Boron I mentioned earlier ).

[Thailaw]

This may seem obvious but are your trees grafted cultivars or are they seedlings because even though some seedling will produce great fruit their fruiting may be irregular .

Also when i mentioned the nitrogen in the fertilizer you can use nitogen but after the fruiting has finished . But generally you are usually better of using oganic fertilisers such as manures etc. Feed the soil , not the tree.

You may have identified the problem. I had no idea until recently when I started researching the problem that grafting was necessary with mango trees, as I know is necessary with avacado trees. I purchased 3 mango trees at Jatujak market on a Saturday afternoon in the plant area about 5 years ago. The trees were about 1.5 meters tall. I noticed no grafting/splicing scar on the trunk and I can see none now. The trees flowered and fruited well during the 2nd and 3rd years after planting in my garden, but as I have said, since then there has been nothing. Everyone said that the fruit was wonderful, and have missed the fruit for the past two years. If the trees are ungrafted trees, is pruning and proper fertilizing a "cure" or am I better to cut them down and start over with grafted trees? Thanks.

If you bought the trees at Chatuchak, 99% sure they are grafted. ( you should have removed the grafting tape. )

The proof is in the past fruiting, un-grafted seedlings simply do not flower & fruit.

Pruning is done to remove previous years fruiting growth & stimulate new fruiting.

You should time your pruning to about four month before the natural flowering season start in December.

When you become an expert, it can be done twice a year, for double fruiting.

Should fertilize after fruiting is finished, and again when fruit is smaller than an egg.

Never use nitrogen when the trees are flowering.

As others have said, adding organic manures to your soil will make chemical fertilizers unnecessary.

On healthy soils you would only need to spray specialized items for specific tasks ( like the Boron I mentioned earlier ).

Thanks. I'll assume that the trees are grafted and go from there.

[msk0072]

This may seem obvious but are your trees grafted cultivars or are they seedlings because even though some seedling will produce great fruit their fruiting may be irregular .

Also when i mentioned the nitrogen in the fertilizer you can use nitogen but after the fruiting has finished . But generally you are usually better of using oganic fertilisers such as manures etc. Feed the soil , not the tree.

You may have identified the problem. I had no idea until recently when I started researching the problem that grafting was necessary with mango trees, as I know is necessary with avacado trees. I purchased 3 mango trees at Jatujak market on a Saturday afternoon in the plant area about 5 years ago. The trees were about 1.5 meters tall. I noticed no grafting/splicing scar on the trunk and I can see none now. The trees flowered and fruited well during the 2nd and 3rd years after planting in my garden, but as I have said, since then there has been nothing. Everyone said that the fruit was wonderful, and have missed the fruit for the past two years. If the trees are ungrafted trees, is pruning and proper fertilizing a "cure" or am I better to cut them down and start over with grafted trees? Thanks.

If you bought the trees at Chatuchak, 99% sure they are grafted. ( you should have removed the grafting tape. )

The proof is in the past fruiting, un-grafted seedlings simply do not flower & fruit.

Pruning is done to remove previous years fruiting growth & stimulate new fruiting.

You should time your pruning to about four month before the natural flowering season start in December.

When you become an expert, it can be done twice a year, for double fruiting.

Should fertilize after fruiting is finished, and again when fruit is smaller than an egg.

Never use nitrogen when the trees are flowering.

As others have said, adding organic manures to your soil will make chemical fertilizers unnecessary.

On healthy soils you would only need to spray specialized items for specific tasks ( like the Boron I mentioned earlier ).

When is the best time to visit Chatuchak Market for shopping plants (fruiting trees), during the week Mon. - Fra. or better at the weekend?

[soidog2]

On Wedensdays.

[xen]

This may seem obvious but are your trees grafted cultivars or are they seedlings because even though some seedling will produce great fruit their fruiting may be irregular .

Also when i mentioned the nitrogen in the fertilizer you can use nitogen but after the fruiting has finished . But generally you are usually better of using oganic fertilisers such as manures etc. Feed the soil , not the tree.

You may have identified the problem. I had no idea until recently when I started researching the problem that grafting was necessary with mango trees, as I know is necessary with avacado trees. I purchased 3 mango trees at Jatujak market on a Saturday afternoon in the plant area about 5 years ago. The trees were about 1.5 meters tall. I noticed no grafting/splicing scar on the trunk and I can see none now. The trees flowered and fruited well during the 2nd and 3rd years after planting in my garden, but as I have said, since then there has been nothing. Everyone said that the fruit was wonderful, and have missed the fruit for the past two years. If the trees are ungrafted trees, is pruning and proper fertilizing a "cure" or am I better to cut them down and start over with grafted trees? Thanks.

If you bought the trees at Chatuchak, 99% sure they are grafted. ( you should have removed the grafting tape. )

The proof is in the past fruiting, un-grafted seedlings simply do not flower & fruit.

Pruning is done to remove previous years fruiting growth & stimulate new fruiting.

You should time your pruning to about four month before the natural flowering season start in December.

When you become an expert, it can be done twice a year, for double fruiting.

Should fertilize after fruiting is finished, and again when fruit is smaller than an egg.

Never use nitrogen when the trees are flowering.

As others have said, adding organic manures to your soil will make chemical fertilizers unnecessary.

On healthy soils you would only need to spray specialized items for specific tasks ( like the Boron I mentioned earlier ).

Thanks. I'll assume that the trees are grafted and go from there.

I don't think you should assume the trees are grafted, not to say they aren't. Most dealers in Chatachuk would be selling grafted species i agree but seedling trees will still flower and bear fruit altho eratically . Like Thailaw says , you can recognize a grafting scar or the grafting tape usually. I have seen some magnificent trees that are seedlings with great fruit . Grafting was developed to aid the production of fruit and if Seedling trees never reproduced by flowers and fruiting, they would never had survived as a species until plant breeding and grafting became common over the past few hundred years.(post Mendal and his research into genetics and breeding in the 1840's if i remember my botany lectures correctly) (similar argument to as why homosexuality cannot be hereditary but that is a another whole subject ).

[Thailaw]

No mangos redux. I have looked at my trees again carefully. In addition, I visited the plant market on Sukumvit in Pattaya about 3 weeks ago. My trees have no grafting scars at the base and I am sure that there was no grafting tape on the trees when I bought them at Chatujak 5 years ago. At the Pattaya weekend plant market, there were at least 7 stalls selling mango trees. Three or 4 of the sellers were selling grafted trees. The roots were in small baskets, with small poles coming up to anchor/support the trunk about 1 foot above the root ball. When I bought my trees they were 1+ meter tall and had no such baskets, but were in small black plastic bags. Three sellers were selling ungrafted trees grown from seeds. I bought one grafted mango tree at the Pattaya plant market and planted it in my side yard to replace a cherry tree that had just blown over in a very strong wind. The grafting tape is clearly visible on the trunk above the root ball.

So, I am now 90% sure that my three mature mango trees are ungrafted trees grown from seed. The question is "what to do with the ungrafted mango trees in my garden?" Do I trim them and fertilize them properly hoping to get mangos every year or two (or three or four) or am I better to cut them down and start again with new grafted mango trees? I am inclined to leave one of the three mature trees (it/they are nice shade trees, but little more than that) and cut down 2 and replace them with new grafted trees. Thoughts?

I have also planted 3 grafted avocado trees in my garden that I purchased in Pak Chong last month. I am excited about them, but I am not sure if the climate and temperature in the Pattaya area will be suitable to produce strong and healthy, fruit bearing trees. Question -- when do you remove the grafting tape? And how, without harming the young tree?

Thanks for any help/guidance.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Thailaw

[jubby]

you will probably not find a Grafting scar on mango trees that big. You are taking too much care. We have about 30 trees, I don't give water, I don't give fertilzer, they produce fruit every year. We have a very long dry season probably 5 months with absolutely no rain. the Fruit looks and taste's beautiful. I'm sure I could make them produce more fruit etc.. with the right amount of fertilzer and care.

They need the stress of a dry season, Cut prune them as mentioned earlier and then leave them to nature. can't see the point of growth inhibitors etc.. until you know they will fruit.

[lovelaos]

We have 8 mango trees and they seem to fruit every other year. One year no fruit, next year plentifull. I dont know if this is normal?

I never water them, just leave them be and the fruit they produce is always delicious (mango chutney is a favourite) The problem I have is stopping the wifes family from taking the fruit before it ripens. Two trees are reserved for my personal consumption and I am amazed at how much fruit the trees produce. Anyone got any ideas why they don't fruit every year?

[Thailaw]

you will probably not find a Grafting scar on mango trees that big. You are taking too much care. We have about 30 trees, I don't give water, I don't give fertilzer, they produce fruit every year. We have a very long dry season probably 5 months with absolutely no rain. the Fruit looks and taste's beautiful. I'm sure I could make them produce more fruit etc.. with the right amount of fertilzer and care.

They need the stress of a dry season, Cut prune them as mentioned earlier and then leave them to nature. can't see the point of growth inhibitors etc.. until you know they will fruit.

"know[ing] if they will fruit" is, I think the point of my post. I need to make some assumptions. I am now assuming that they are ungrafted trees. Everything suggestes to me that they are. So, the question is, with the pruning, fertilizer and perhaps chemical fruit enhancers, can I expect to get mangos from my trees at least every other year? Or am I better to "take a wack" at these tress and plant new ones. At this stage, I would be satisfied with fruit evey other year, but having mango trees and no mangos kind of defeats the purpose in my mind. I do not like cutting down 3 healthy mature trees, but if fruit is unlikely, that is probably the best course. I would appreciate comments from people knowledgeable on this subject. As I said, I am inclined to replace 2 of the 3. That seems like a good compromise.

[Thailaw]

We have 8 mango trees and they seem to fruit every other year. One year no fruit, next year plentifull. I dont know if this is normal?

I never water them, just leave them be and the fruit they produce is always delicious (mango chutney is a favourite) The problem I have is stopping the wifes family from taking the fruit before it ripens. Two trees are reserved for my personal consumption and I am amazed at how much fruit the trees produce. Anyone got any ideas why they don't fruit every year?

Fruiting every other year is what I have read is the case with ungrafted mango trees. That may be the case with yours, as I think is the case with mine, except that I have not had any fruit for the last 2 years. I would be satisfied with fruiting every other year. There may be some techniques/chemical additives to "force" them to fruit evey year, if you are willing to put forth the effort and expense to do that. I am hoping that some suggestions will be given by those in the know before I cut my trees down. Watch this thread and hopefully some suggestions will be provided that will help us both and save my trees from the axe.

[soidog2]

OK, let's assume your trees are not grafted, prune them in late August , if not flowered by January, cut them and plant good grafted seedlings from a reputable place.

You can get many good varieties in Pak Chong; the agricultural research station ( http://www.iicrd.ku....chrs_001_e1.htm ) or many surrounding nurseries.

For the avocado, in general, the grafting tape should be removed just before you plant them.

Observe carefully the trunk, make sure the union is well healed, with cuticle scissors, gently cut the tape knot, than unwrap the tape.

If the graft is still young, do not plant; keep them out of direct sun for a few month.

Personally, I plant as deep as practical; with the graft bellow the dirt line in order to support the new graft as much as possible.

The reason I recommended the growth inhibitor: if it rains after pruning, or your soil is moist year round, your trees will just keep on growing, never flower.

They must have a long dry season when they stop growing naturally or it must be induced.

Best regards

Edited May 2, 2012 by soidog2

[jubby]

I don't think anyone is knowledgeable enough to know for definate if they will fruit. You've been given some good suggestions. even by me.

I suspect you'd need two years before you get results , although you may be lucky with Soidogs suggestion .

but what do I know, I've only had the trees 15 years.

[Thailaw]

OK, let's assume your trees are not grafted, prune them in late August , if not flowered by January, cut them and plant good grafted seedlings from a reputable place.

You can get many good varieties in Pak Chong; the agricultural research station ( http://www.iicrd.ku....chrs_001_e1.htm ) or many surrounding nurseries.

For the avocado, in general, the grafting tape should be removed just before you plant them.

Observe carefully the trunk, make sure the union is well healed, with cuticle scissors, gently cut the tape knot, than unwrap the tape.

If the graft is still young, do not plant; keep them out of direct sun for a few month.

Personally, I plant as deep as practical; with the graft bellow the dirt line in order to support the new graft as much as possible.

The reason I recommended the growth inhibitor: if it rains after pruning, or your soil is moist year round, your trees will just keep on growing, never flower.

They must have a long dry season when they stop growing naturally or it must be induced.

Best regards

Excellent advice, thanks. The trees are healthy and I think justify one more chance. I will prune them in August, avoid nitrogen fertilizers and apply a growth inhibitor if available. If they do not flower and fruit then, they will be replaced promptly thereafter.

The avocado trees have been planted already. They do look very young and the grafts rather new. I will wait a few months and cut the grafting tape as you suggest. I have read that cutting is enough and there is no need to remove the tape, which makes sense to me.

[Thailaw]

I don't think anyone is knowledgeable enough to know for definate if they will fruit. You've been given some good suggestions. even by me.

I suspect you'd need two years before you get results , although you may be lucky with Soidogs suggestion .

but what do I know, I've only had the trees 15 years.

Sorry if my post seemed unappreciative of your comments/suggestions. That was not my intent. I realize that no one can "guarantee" me that my trees will (or will not) bear fruit on a regular basis. I am looking for an "educated guess" from people that have some knowledge/experience with ungrafted trees, and if they can be made (or encouraged) to be regular fruit bearers, and how, without a monumental effort. What is at stake is three 5 year old, 4 - 5 meter tall trees that provided very nice fruit for 2 years and then stopped completely. But mangos are readily available in the market and cheap, so this is not a huge problem. If I can get them to produce, great; but if not I have no problem with replacing them with good quality grated trees. Frankly, I am far more interested in my new (grafted) avocado trees and my US yellow lemon trees. I am very anxious to get them gowing and producing. But the family loves mangos and especially the ones that previously came from our trees. So, if I can get the mango trees to fruit they will be very pleased. Thanks to all who have responded. I have learned a lot about trees from each of you -- more than I ever thought I would need to know! This is what happens when you grow up in New England, work in the city and get all of your fruit in the grocery store, and move to a tropical environment late in life.

[soidog2]

Tape is wound several tines around the trunk, go the extra mile and remove it completely. Later on it will inhibit growth if stuck.

PS, we have a small mango farm with 300 trees; used to live in Manhattan.

Edited May 2, 2012 by soidog2

[Thailaw]

Tape is wound several tines around the trunk, go the extra mile and remove it completely. Later on it will inhibit growth if stuck.

PS, we have a small mango farm with 300 trees; used to live in Manhattan.

Thanks. It is not laziness that motivates me to cut but not remove the grafting tape. My concern is removing parts of the tree's bark along with the tape if it sticks. I will cut the tape and try to remove it carefully, but if it sticks to the trees bark, I will let nature and the elements remove it over time.