Bangkok's 'Hitler Chic' Trend Riles Tourists, Israeli Envoy

[freedom4life]

Once again Thailand hits a homerun for ignorance.

Education in history seems worse than lacking

Graham

Education in Thailand is worse than lacking.

Real education in Canada and America is non-existent..

[thaibeachlovers]

Thai people dont fancy communists or jews for that matter. Some time ago I was sitting next to Gen. Sayut during lunch, he was supreme commander of the thai armed forces when they defeated the last communist enclave in Khao Yai in the late 1960's, what he told me about what they found in Khao Yai its no suprise the Thais have no problem with killing communists.

Please do educate me as how "jews" fit into your comment. I was unaware that Thais don't fancy "jews". Please explain what makes you think this.

Actually, he's correct, at least in my case. My wife is Thai and has done some tours for foreigners..there happened to be a so-called "jew" in the group..she did not care much for her at all...she complained non-stop and felt she was above everyone else present..

I know this is not on topic, but relevant to the quoted reply.

I was doing a tour of Derry with a group that included a female Israeli, and when we were overlooking the Bogside from the city walls the tour guide was explaining about how the inhabitants of the Bogside had been beseiged by the Brits during the Troubles. I was completely gobsmacked when she proceeded to proclaim an affiliation with the Catholics!

For those that don't understand, it's a long story, and I'm not going to explain it here.

[Monaro]

Google "what you know about hitler"

Brave and noble people the Thais

[unanimosity]

When I first saw the Hitler / Ronald McDonald t-shirt mashup prominently displayed on a mannequin outside a small shop at Terminal 21, it did indeed stop me in my tracks. But my initial feeling was not "outrage" or "anger", but rather "wow, this would NEVER be acceptable in any major western city", then I thought that this was also a Banksy rip-off, then I thought that this is a continuation of the somewhat amusing alterations of major brands that are pretty benign and sometimes even funny easily seen all up and down Sukhumvit Asok/Nana and elsewhere. There are t-shirt stands that sell McShit, Starfuc_ks, fuc_kin Gonuts, and just about any other major logo that can be easily morphed into an amusing or absurd parody.

It is interesting that when Hitler get's thrown into the mix, that we see outrage and shame among other emotions flaring up. I don't see the same outrage for t-shirts that compared George Bush and Hitler that was somewhat popular a few years back, nor would I think a mash-up of Pol Pot and Ronald McDonald evoke the same feeling. Somehow this one hit a vein. But why? Is McDonald's some hallowed brand that should remain off limits to any parody? Are they purveyors of nutritious food that are genuinely interested in the welfare of mankind? No. They are, in my opinion, an incredibly successful corporate machine raking in billions of dollars in profits selling unhealthy and addictive foods marketed primarily to children. Have you seen the movie Supersize Me? And should Hitler be off limits to parody? There are countless parodies of hitler, as well there should be.

Parody of a major brand is "Fair Use". Which is protected as free speech, in among other places, the US Constitution.

To take the opposite side of this debate, I conclude with a defense of the illustrator who thought this mashup up: If corporations had their way, we would only eat their processed foods, work in their factories, and obey every command of the governments they try to put in power. Among those peacefully rebelling against these forces are creative illustrators, some of whom are just trying to make a buck, and others who are trying to make a statement, mashing up social icons that effectively stir things up.

Attached are two images: one the infamous t-shirt, and the other Banksy's more powerful "Napalm". A mashup of 2 very well known corporate icons and a famous photo of a little girl running from a napalm attack on her village during the Vietnam war. Banksy's mash-up drives home a very hard point. Maybe it wasn't McDonald's or Disney that facilitated this little girl's pain, but would Bell Helicopter and other defense contractors be excluded of all blame?

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

-Benito Mussolini

Unbelievable. You equate illegal use of a trademark or servicemark with free speech. You can say anything you want about a company that is fact or obvious satire, but you may not use their logo to do it, without their permission.

[TackyToo]

Using the swastika image, as the Chiang Mai students did some time ago is one thing since it's an ancient religious symbol, but glorifying Hitler and using Ronald McDonald as a Hitler image is a bit much. I expect McDonalds Corp., to sue soon.

Thai ignorance of history is just stunning. No doubt some politicians will soon be seen sporting the Little Dictator moustache.

Perhaps some young ignorant soul with cash to splash here will open a slimming spa called Buchenwald Bodyworks. Pathetic.

FYI: a black swastika in a white circle on a red background never was an ancient religious symbol!

[SPIKECM]

1. Nobody minded that much when old Soviet symbols popped up. The Soviets killed millions during WW2.

2. Hitler as Ronald McDoland? Why not. Provocative art. Bad taste? Suitable, as many thai's dont really like McDonalds.

3. Hitler hurt many more than just jews. For instance, in Poland he killed about the same amount of polish jews as non jewish Poles. It's disgusting that most of the others nationalities are usually excluded from discussions about the WW2 atrocities. So why is it always made a jewish issue that everybody tiptoes around.

4. Western coutries are far from political correct, not to mention in their international action.

Living in Thailand you might expect expats to be a bit more open minded, understanding and embrace the fact that thai have other perspectives. Some (many?) of you have a semi-permanent sex slave but provocative Hitler picture is the big jaw dropper?

Oh, please...

"semi-permanent sex slave".... you haven't had much experience in Thailand to come out with that one.... and by the way 15 million Russians died in the second world war.. man's inhumanity to man knows no bounds in race nor creed and isn't restricted to the Atlantic slave trade, German/Jews or what Russia did to the German civilians in Berlin in 1944.... but there certainly isn't any inhumanity to man going on in Thailand with semi sex slaves! If you want to know about man's inhumanity to man in Thailand, listen to the stories of what the pretty little "slaves" did to their "masters"! They are truly heartless stories.

Edited February 27, 2012 by SPIKECM

[antipodesant]

Isreal should stop bugging Thailand and Nazi, and terrorism.

Could you try to rewrite that in semi-understandable English?

I hope that people who profit from the image of Nazi Hilter be punished, by re-incarnation, and be born again in a stick Jewish family.

So that they understand how much the Jew really suffered.

Your use of written English only serves to confim the veracity of your avatar.

[kagan]

Maybe the shirts are just a metaphor, showing how the 'corporate takeover' of some industries can be seen as 'Nazi' in theory. That's probably what the Thai people mean by wearing shirts like that.

[uptheos]

Most Germans were not Nazis but conscripts.

Ordinary German's killed Jews willingly and happily.

[thaibeachlovers]

Once again Thailand hits a homerun for ignorance.

Education in history seems worse than lacking

Graham

Education in Thailand is worse than lacking.

Real education in Canada and America is non-existent..

Sadly, my education was not only poor, but bad for me.

Any real education I have gained was by my own endeavours after i left school.

The only thing of value that I left school with was the ability to read. The subjects that I would like to have done, and that would have benefited me, like technical drawing and metalwork were denied me because you had to be in the bottom class. I studied English kings, unintelligible chemistry equations, European geography and how to cut up mice instead.

So it's not just Thailand that has poor education.

[thaibeachlovers]

Adolph Hitler and Ronald McDonald walk into a bar. Hitler loudly announces "I have ze plans to kill 6 meeelliooon Manchester United footbol fans and 3 circus clowns." One of the punters yells out "why the 3 clowns?" Hitler whispers to Ronald, "see, I tell you, no one care about zose idiots"

Excellent. Please put that on the comedy forum.

[harryfrompattaya]

Growing up in London during the war us kids would often walk around parodying Hitler, one finger held under our noses as a mustache, the other arm raised in the Nazi salute, we found it funny. We were not supporting him, we were taking the piss.

Thats not surprising at all considering England has one of the longest and most shameful legacies of Anti-Semetism of any country on Earth. I'll bet your glad all the Jews there have been replaced with vile bearded Islamic clerics calling for Sharia Law in Great Britain right?

This is happening all over Europe maybe this is God's punishment what a turn of events

Edited February 27, 2012 by harryfrompattaya

[thaibeachlovers]

Most Germans were not Nazis but conscripts.

Ordinary German's killed Jews willingly and happily.

A did Ukranians and many other European Races that served Hitler.

[uptheos]

Just wondering how your wife knew she was a "so called jew"? Did she have her yellow star sewn on?

Simple........his wife knew because this is an example of a typical antisemitic bullshit story.

[michaelrayjackson]

Thailand could have avoided all this bad publicity if they just would have given poor Ronald a Viktor Bout/Josef Stalin moustache.

Apparently, Ronald McHitler was just arrested at a nudist resort in Phuket, police said it wasn't the silly moustache or orange hair that gave him away, but rather his sesame seed buns.

[TackyToo]

I was born and raised in post war Germany. For me it is just bad taste to wear shirts like those mentioned. How many millions died in the name of christianity? And people still wear Jesus T-shirts...

In both cases it's got nothing to do with the person in the picture, it simply shows how ignorant and uneducated the wearer is!

[unanimosity]

This is just barely art. It is someone's very poor attempt at copying Banksy. You just take stuff from history and mix it with stuff from pop culture and then "wwowowowoowowowoww totally edgy portrayal of corporatism, dude". There are undoubtably plenty of great Thai artists but the Thai gov does not do a whole lot to promote them or to promote art in generally in Thailand.

Anyways, Thais and farang for that matter appear obsessed with walking around shopping malls.

The Thai gov doesn't do enough to promote [Thai artists]? What kind of government are you from? What kind of artist needs, expects, or wants to be promoted by governemnt? Being promoted by any government pretty much runs in the face of art, unless you are mistaking propaganda for art.

[chooka]

Isn't Ronald McDonald American? This must have been approved by McDonalds as they own the trademark. American dress as nazis in the name of entertainment and fun but if a Thai does it there is a big stink and racist cards come out. American T.V shows southpark etc American movies the list is endless and far more blatant than anything here in Thailand. My great uncle was beheaded by the japanese in WWII and my family doesn't get in huff when they see a japanese flag.

Geez give the Thais a little bit of a break and look what is happening in your countries (England, Aust, U.S etc) before condeming Thailand for less.

[harryfrompattaya]

For a culture that demands so much respect for their billionaire monarchy you'd think they would show a little more respect for the murder of millions of people in Europe a the hands of a madman during WWII considering it was the West that saved these pathetic cowards from the Japanese turning Thailand into its own Province.

The West saved Thailand from the Japanese? My God, go and learn just a little bit of history. I am no apologist for the Japanese (having lived there for 15 years I am fully aware of the atrocities and how knowledge of it is suppressed in Japan), but during the war Thailand declared itself neutral, allowing Japanese troops free passage, having no armed forces capable of resisting. Given that Thailand's pleas for assistance to the French and British were roundly ignored, what other option did they have? A totally realistic position for the Government of the day; their responsibility is to their own populace first and foremost.

And given the West's treatment of their colonies pre-war, and their subsequent post-war behavior, (i.e. the attempted re-colonisation of Indonesia by the Dutch, the French in Indo-China etc., with full support from the Allies), do you really expect the Thais (or any other people in Sth East Asia) to be "grateful"?

Back to the topic in hand. We are such a precious lot, aren't we? I wonder if I released a t-shirt with the American flag flying over the body of Salvador Allende with the words "Victory for Democracy" underneath, would I also be accused of racism?

It is parody, black humor. Get over it. The best way to de-power a symbol is to turn it into a joke, so that even those who believe in it can no longer use it and be taken seriously. Much like African Americans claiming derogatory terms such as "nigger" as their own.

Bring it on I say.

You are fool and make up history see a Doctor soon

[Jayman]

I'm thinking about printing a few "Thaksin as Hitler" t-shirts (red of course) and taking them up for the g/f's relatives when we go up for Saung Kran. I'm sure that most would love them, and I could explain the joke to the anti-Thaksinists, if necessary.

I'll take a dozen of those. If you do end up making them pm me and I'll buy some from you to share with my family in the NE.

[dighambara]

Not just tourists, but tax paying workers too. Not every white face is a tourist. Poor reporting. How many people reading ThaiVisa have a relative who died during this war....on either side (the frontline men were trying to do the "right" thing for their country)?

I know of 3 relatives in my family alone.

None in my family died. They all fought for the allies and killed the nazi scum.

It is not the soldier, but the politics. Often the people become puppets to their country - as is happening in the USA.

Not everyone on the other side were scum - many were drafted and wondering what they were fighting for....

My Father was a POW in Bavaria, my StepFather was in the Navy as a gunner on a PBY - Catalina - destined for the Pacific. My Grandfather was a Seargeant in the California Coast Artillery.. Two Uncles were on Navy ships, one in the Army Air Force.

[freedom4life]

As a German i feel ashamed. Sorry.

You are a German of this generation. You should have no reason to be ashamed. The evil was commited by past generations.

However your people are well aware of the evils of Naziism and Hitler's rule and have strict rules regarding Nazi symbolism and its abuse.

That would also apply to Japanese people. They understand history. Thais have yet to learn.

No germans of any generation need feel guilty of a history that has only been manipulated and distorted to benefit a few...and the term nazi, is actually Ashenazi/Khazar/Zionist and they are still present in society today...especially in America, Canada, U.K., Israel and Australia..

[JoshuaCaleb]

I do not believe Hitler representations are funny, entertaining, or neither anything that should be tolerated. Hitler would not have accepted the Thai people. Hitler was against many different groups of people.

I do not believe that turning children's icons into icons that represent hate and marketing them is justifiable, no matter how long ago that it happened. One can use recent international atrocities as a comparison to try and justify it, but one current action of attempted genocide does not make it okay to market the past ones.

This isn't simply about swastikas or inverted swastikas, but of hitler and representations of Nazi paraphernalia.

Didn't the nazis try to make their stuff fashionable in their propaganda?

Where are the ideas to market Hitler coming from?

The best way to build a bridge is not to promote symbolic icons of hate and genocide, but to forgive people and prevent repetition of the hate or symbols of it.

[Misterwhisper]

Using the swastika image, as the Chiang Mai students did some time ago is one thing since it's an ancient religious symbol, but glorifying Hitler and using Ronald McDonald as a Hitler image is a bit much. I expect McDonalds Corp., to sue soon.

Thai ignorance of history is just stunning. No doubt some politicians will soon be seen sporting the Little Dictator moustache.

Perhaps some young ignorant soul with cash to splash here will open a slimming spa called Buchenwald Bodyworks. Pathetic.

FYI: a black swastika in a white circle on a red background never was an ancient religious symbol!

I have to agree with TackyToo. Once a swastika is used in this configuration (i.e. the white circle on red abckground) it ceases to be a religious symbol. Also, those students wore them with fancy uniforms clearly inspired by Nazi garb. They must have conducted some (Internet) research in order to come up with those designs, hence claiming that they were ignorant of the meaning of those uniforms and the accompanying swastika is absurd. I think it would've been okay if they had worn them to mock Naziism, but unfortunately they were actually rather proud of them, displaying a worrisome admiration for fascism and what it stands for. We also shouldn't foget that Thailand used to have its very own "Little Hitler" in the form of Field Marshal Plaek Pibunsongkram and - after he was eventually deposed - was governed by a succession of extreme right-wing military dictators. To this day many locals just love to wear their uniforms. Teachers at government schools even dress in military-style uniforms complete with shoulder boards designating their "rank".

[newsweird]

I feel so insignificant amongst so many wiki scholars

[bigbamboo]

I think you're all mistaken about some of this.

The Ronald McDonald that looks like Hitler makes a lot of sense to me.

Americans have killed much much more muslims, directly and indirectly, than the 2nd world war jews.

Their behaviour is shaded by their mighty TV and Cinema propaganda and it's hard to see through, but they are at least the equals of Germand Nazis.

Little Ronald McHitler makes so much sense to me.

If you don't see that then you're the ignorant brainwashed one.

TIT.

Edited February 27, 2012 by bigbamboo

[bobl]

Once again Thailand hits a homerun for ignorance.

It's not ignorance but being completely uninformed. I've seen swastikas on helmets and flags and posters a million times. I even saw a Thai nazi ones completely with shaved head, bomber jacket and boots with white laces. If they only knew that they wouldn't have made it a second in the Third Reich.

You are aware that the swastika dates back several thousand years, aren't you?

[Misterwhisper]

I do not believe Hitler representations are funny, entertaining, or neither anything that should be tolerated. Hitler would not have accepted the Thai people. Hitler was against many different groups of people.

I do not believe that turning children's icons into icons that represent hate and marketing them is justifiable, no matter how long ago that it happened. One can use recent international atrocities as a comparison to try and justify it, but one current action of attempted genocide does not make it okay to market the past ones.

This isn't simply about swastikas or inverted swastikas, but of hitler and representations of Nazi paraphernalia.

Didn't the nazis try to make their stuff fashionable in their propaganda?

Where are the ideas to market Hitler coming from?

The best way to build a bridge is not to promote symbolic icons of hate and genocide, but to forgive people and prevent repetition of the hate or symbols of it.

Reminds me of that scandal when Prince Harry appeared at a party in SA uniform. It triggered a hilarious rsponse in the British press.

For one, a satire magazine (can't remember its name) had a picture of Hitler on its cover with a speech bubble that said: "I've come as Prince Harry!".

Then there was that newspaper caricature showing Prince Charles arm in arm with Camilla. Prince Harry in Nazi uniform and wearing a swastika armband was standing before the couple. Charles said: "Harry! How can you possibly wear this horrible thing on your arm?" Harry replied: "I just wanted to ask you the same thing, father."

British humour at its best.

[TantraMantra]

Using the swastika image, as the Chiang Mai students did some time ago is one thing since it's an ancient religious symbol, but glorifying Hitler and using Ronald McDonald as a Hitler image is a bit much. I expect McDonalds Corp., to sue soon.

Thai ignorance of history is just stunning. No doubt some politicians will soon be seen sporting the Little Dictator moustache.

Perhaps some young ignorant soul with cash to splash here will open a slimming spa called Buchenwald Bodyworks. Pathetic.

You had the idea and said it. Pathetic

[unanimosity]

Maybe the shirts are just a metaphor, showing how the 'corporate takeover' of some industries can be seen as 'Nazi' in theory. That's probably what the Thai people mean by wearing shirts like that.

Did you develop this theory in a vacuum? Step outside and ask the first local you see whether Ayuddhaya is east or west of Bangkok and see if your "probably" still stands.