Fish And Shrimp Farm

[IsaanAussie]

David,

Congratulations on a great topic presentation.

IA

[ozzydom]

Fish Kill

Call it’s commentators curse but the Monday morning after the week-end when I wrote the above post, in one of the Ponds there was a minor (thankfully) Fish kill.

Apparently the previous day had some breeze and Mother, who tends solely to this pond, deemed that there was enough oxygen in the pond … wrong.

Maybe it was because the natural mortality rate during this grow out period was less leading to a higher stocking or density within the pond.

As soon as the floaters were discovered at dawn the aerators were fired up and all available hands at the Farm were called into action to collect the Fish and Prawns while they were still fresh.

Below are some photos from the recovery process.

This did bring this interesting photo of the 2 different Prawn species and their differing look at their respective growth cycle stages.

Mother has tried introducing a second species other Tilapia. Translated from Thai in English, the Thais call this species ‘Big Head’ fish. Apparently we call them ‘Big Head Carp’. The smaller, darker Fish in the above photo is a Tilapia and the rest are Carp.

With relativly lower proporation of Tilapia dying could indicate that are able to handle the lower oxygen levels then the Carp, thus making the Tilapia a hardier and more tolerant species then the Carp.

Information on the Big Head Carp species form the Queensland (Australian State) Government … http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/28_13049.htm

Source: http://www.gillhamsf...rp_species.html

Declared a noxious species in Australia and reported to grow up 35 Kgs and judging by the photo above, 35 kilos is very achievable.

When I asked the gf what are like to eat, she relied that she never had eaten one and Thais typically make their famous Fish Cakes from them … I love Thai Fish Cakes

Thanks to RedBullHorn, supaprik and ShopBoy for dropping by and commenting ...

.

The blue "shrimp" pictured look much like Blue Claw Yabbies from Oz.

[Crushdepth]

Some free technical publications on shrimp farming may be of interest, although most of it is for tiger shrimp. In particular I recommend the Shrimp Health Management Extension Manual and the Australian Prawn Farming Manual.

[David48]

Thanks aussiedom and Crushdepth for the comments.

Aussie, I haven’t researched much about the Blue Claw Shrimp because the Thai gf put in limited numbers just to ‘see what would happen’.

They were tasty though.

Crushdepth, some really good information there, some excellent links, thanks for taking the time to add to this post.

Just something to mention that is related to Farming is the spread of an invasive pest known as the Golden Apple Snail.

Ref: http://www.qm.qld.go...ugs/Apple+Snail

You might know it as that friendly snail that crawls up and down inside the glass of your aquarium, but when released into the wild, it becomes an invasive pest species.

Eggs in the Rice Field

Ref: http://www.brrd.in.t..._animal_07.html

This pest snail is responsible for the wide spread dissemination of some of the rice fields in Thailand.

To quote from the Ecological Society of America’s extract from a Department of Ecology/Limnology, Lund University, Sweden study http://www.esajourna...10.1890/03-3146

We investigated the effects of the golden apple snail (which) has invaded large parts of Southeast Asia during recent decades. … the continuing aggressive invasion of this exotic species are detrimental to the integrity and functioning of wetland ecosystems, and to the services these provide in Southeast Asia.

Eggs at the Fish Farm

So have no qualms about destroying any eggs that you might find. Not the nicest thing to say but it is really just part of a natural pest control without the use of chemicals.

.

[necronx99]

Good thread David.

A question, possibly silly but I have no idea.

When they are doing both fish and prawns in the same pond how do they get the prawns out?

Do they use traps (pots) only or nets? If the latter how do you net prawns without also netting all your fish?

[David48]

necronx99 ... not a silly question at all.

The actual process I will detail at a later time when I have all the available photos and hopefully some YouTube action as well.

The simple answer is that they use a form of a trap because, at this stage, the pond is not emptied.

Posts #3 and #4 show the trap being laid and later collected.

And you are correct, occassionaly you do catch a smaller fish or two as you can see in the 3rd photo in Post #4.

.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks aussiedom and Crushdepth for the comments.

Aussie, I haven’t researched much about the Blue Claw Shrimp because the Thai gf put in limited numbers just to ‘see what would happen’.

They were tasty though.

Crushdepth, some really good information there, some excellent links, thanks for taking the time to add to this post.

Just something to mention that is related to Farming is the spread of an invasive pest known as the Golden Apple Snail.

Ref: http://www.qm.qld.go...ugs/Apple+Snail

You might know it as that friendly snail that crawls up and down inside the glass of your aquarium, but when released into the wild, it becomes an invasive pest species.

Eggs in the Rice Field

Ref: http://www.brrd.in.t..._animal_07.html

This pest snail is responsible for the wide spread dissemination of some of the rice fields in Thailand.

To quote from the Ecological Society of America’s extract from a Department of Ecology/Limnology, Lund University, Sweden study http://www.esajourna...10.1890/03-3146

We investigated the effects of the golden apple snail (which) has invaded large parts of Southeast Asia during recent decades. … the continuing aggressive invasion of this exotic species are detrimental to the integrity and functioning of wetland ecosystems, and to the services these provide in Southeast Asia.

Eggs at the Fish Farm

So have no qualms about destroying any eggs that you might find. Not the nicest thing to say but it is really just part of a natural pest control without the use of chemicals.

.

These snails are a valuable resource for protein. Local Thais eat them and some people sell the meat. However I tend to agree with David. Last year my pond became infested with the things so after some research I managed to get some chemical concoction which would kill the snails but not harm the few fish in the pond. Mind you they did a great job of cleaning up the last of the water lettuce crop. It took two goes but now all I have is shells, thousands of them.

[David48]

Thanks IssanAussie for the post.

Humm ... Thai style escargot ... I'll think I'll pass.

As you rightly pointed out, the snails have a veracious appetite for vegetation (your water lettuce) but they seem to have made little inroads into the water hyacinth growing in the Klongs in the area. Maybe one pest is out growing the other?

If everything goes to plan there will be another harvest at the Farm this week-end and I'll try ad update this post with things that are new.

There is one photo that the girl sent to me yesterday which I wanted to share because of the quality of the photo and reality of the lifestyle for the Fish Farmer.

For me, this photo is a classic

To put this in a deeper perspective, the man on the far left of the photo is the Father.

He's ex-Navy and lost his half his leg in the service.

So he's out there with his prosthetic on, nearly knee deep in the mud helping with the last of the harvest.

Almost nothing slows him down ... I tip my hat to him.

.

[David48]

The Prawn growing cycle

For this post I asked MissFarmGirl a series of questions for which I expected to receive very raw English answers which I would interpret and re-post, however, she replied with an answer that I am very proud of and must have spent a lot of time not only with her content but also with her English so I have simply reproduced her email below.

My questions are in blue and her reply in black. MissFarmGirl ... I am so proud of you!

About drain pond for catch shrimp? We not drain pond for catch shrimp because in the pond still have fish.

First thing with Fish and shrimp farm ...after we add water to the pond about 5-7 days we will buy baby fish and put them in to pond. Then we will buy baby shrimp but no put them same pond with baby fish.

We will keep them in to special pond for take care them for strong until 1 month we will move all shrimp and keep in fish pond...it mean fish and shrimp same age.

We will wait till 2 or 3 months if the size of shrimp can be sell we will put nets in the pond ...not drain water. Because fish just 2 or 3 month not big size and can't sell in the market.

We will buy baby shrimp again and keep them in the special pond again after we move baby shrimp in to the fish pond ... we will manage them like cycle.

After we catch the shrimp (first time) we will move shrimp (second time) and put in fish pond again...we will do like this about 3 or 4 time (Buy baby shrimp 4 time take time about 6-8 months). So this why we not drain water when we catching shrimp.

How many nets in the water? For example Mom's Pond about 5-6 Rai she put nets in the pond 13 nets. But first or second day she not get many shrimp she will less nets down for save time when catching shrimp ... and not much work because not many shrimp.

How many people usually help to catch? About 3-4 people that enough for this job (same in photos). We take time about 1 hour for finish with catch shrimp.

What time of day/night? We will start to turn on light around the 7 pm. till 5.30 am. Father he will wiring around the pond and connect the power to on (light near) the nets.

The shrimp enter the net because? When shrimp see the light they will come in to nets because the light it on the nets. Same when the fisherman catching fish in the sea they will use the light for make shrimp, fish and octopus interest and come to nets.

The shrimp can not leave the net because? We have net two size (size of hole) when shrimp come in net they can not come out before it is one way ... the way go in can't go out. We call this net is "stupid net" it mean shrimp not smart can go in but can't go out. We have two size (nets).big and small when shrimp have problem before good to sell (age of shrimp before 2 month) we will use for small size.

When You drain the pond for catch fish, this is how we take the shrimp out first (how you do)?

Correct. Before we catch fish we will put net in pond maybe 3 night before catch fish. But almost shrimp we can get and little bit shrimp still in the pond. So when we drain water we will meet shrimp left in the pond little bit.

Well done MissFarmGirl ...

I don't know about you guys but I find it refreshing when a Thai person actually tells you what they do and not us trying to interpret what they do?

To clarify a few things above.

The Prawns are usually there to simply provide a cash flow for the Farm and a lot of that money is used to buy the Fish feed and to subsidise the day to day expenses of the Farm and Family.

I have to correct an earlier post when I said that the catch time for the Prawns was about 3 months. This question and reply was lost in translation. What MissFarmGirl was actually saying is that they harvest the Prawns on an as need basis and that is usually about every 3 months ... sometimes a shorter period

Not that the lifecycle of the prawn from fry to saleable adult is 3 months ... it depends upon the growing conditions etc.

Graphic lifecycle

Source: http://www.seafdec.o...r_lifecycle.gif

Life cycle of the Prawn within a Farming context

Source: http://enjoywithreal...d-crab-culture/

...

I'll try and get of photo of the actual nets used to harvest the Prawns when I visit the Farm next time, the style depicted below gives a clue to how the local nets work.

necronx99... I hope that answers your question!

No question is too small to ask and if I don't know the answer, I'll ask the gf and if she doesn't know she'll ask her parents and if they are stumped ... we'll refer to the Forum!

.

[necronx99]

The Prawn growing cycle

necronx99... I hope that answers your question!

No question is too small to ask and if I don't know the answer, I'll ask the gf and if she doesn't know she'll ask her parents and if they are stumped ... we'll refer to the Forum!

.

Very good thanks.

I was a bit confused earlier because what you were showing didn't seem to be practical on a scale that matched the size of the ponds.

This explains it nicely.

Edited March 16, 2012 by necronx99

[David48]

necronx99 ... no problem

To indicate the scale of the Fish harvest and why the Prawns are just sold just for the cash flow, here is the start of a night time Fish harvest from an earlier time.

When it fish harvest time, it's all hands to pumps buckets

.

[Gweiloman]

Hi there David and MissFarmGirl

Very interesting thread, i will read it more in detail later when I have more time.

A quick question though - I will be hanging up my hat within the next few years and had been contemplating the idea of a chicken / fish farm, but a prawn farm sounds interesting as well. However, I will be moving up Isaan way and I could be wrong but it doesn't seem like there are many prawn or crab farms up there. Would you know if there is any particular reason for that? I usually have to bring up prawns/crabs from Bangkok when we go up for a holiday, though one can easily find squid.

[David48]

Hi Gweiloman, we are glad you found the post interesting.

About the chicken/fish farm, it does happen and the droppings from the chickens assist with the feed for the fish.

It's the same with the Prawns which forage on the ponds bottom looking for food, most of which has been processed first through the fish!

Chicken-Fish Farming System

Chicken manure has been claimed to be better than duck manure in integrated farming. Nevertheless chicken-fish system seems to be not as common as duck-fish system. Chicken disease and contract farming may be two of the reasons.

In chicken-fish system the pond is rectangular in shape with 1.5 m water depth. Chicken house is built above the pond floor 1.2 m above the water level.

Recommended fish species are tilapia or tilapia cum striped catfish.

Source: http://www.fao.org/d...5E/AC155E13.htm

You can read all about the various symbiotic farming relations form the source link above.

As for crabs ... I've only had one experience with that and it was a long time ago!

Seriously though, Issan not my area of expertise, I will seek information from a higher authority.

In the mean time can any of the experienced hands up north way handle the question?

.

Edited March 16, 2012 by David48

[RedBullHorn]

Thanks aussiedom and Crushdepth for the comments.

Aussie, I haven’t researched much about the Blue Claw Shrimp because the Thai gf put in limited numbers just to ‘see what would happen’.

They were tasty though.

Crushdepth, some really good information there, some excellent links, thanks for taking the time to add to this post.

Just something to mention that is related to Farming is the spread of an invasive pest known as the Golden Apple Snail.

Ref: http://www.qm.qld.go...ugs/Apple+Snail

You might know it as that friendly snail that crawls up and down inside the glass of your aquarium, but when released into the wild, it becomes an invasive pest species.

Eggs in the Rice Field

Ref: http://www.brrd.in.t..._animal_07.html

This pest snail is responsible for the wide spread dissemination of some of the rice fields in Thailand.

To quote from the Ecological Society of America’s extract from a Department of Ecology/Limnology, Lund University, Sweden study http://www.esajourna...10.1890/03-3146

We investigated the effects of the golden apple snail (which) has invaded large parts of Southeast Asia during recent decades. … the continuing aggressive invasion of this exotic species are detrimental to the integrity and functioning of wetland ecosystems, and to the services these provide in Southeast Asia.

Eggs at the Fish Farm

So have no qualms about destroying any eggs that you might find. Not the nicest thing to say but it is really just part of a natural pest control without the use of chemicals.

.

Nothern Thai call it "hoi Shelly" It's a PEST !!!

Not good for catfish farm, all snells have parasites that affect fish's health including this species...

It can be eaten but you need to remove a specific gland in the organ, the gland has hallucination effect

and causes dizziness.

I kill its eggs and any adults i come across, period.

Edited March 18, 2012 by RedBullHorn

[David48]

Bangkok Fish Market

Well it was harvest time at one of the Fish Ponds over the week-end and there was a number of duties to be performed.

It was a night time harvest and what was interesting was that this time there wasn't a draining of the Pond and the Fish were netted.

Would have been great to capture some of that on Video, however ...

MissFarmGirl's job was to get the catch to market and the best price available while Mother stayed back at the Farm tended to the workers needs. Maybe some footage next time.

So, for MissFarmGirl, it was up at 2.30am to be ready to drive one of the 3 Utes (pick-ups) to the Fish Market in Bangkok.

Bangkok Fish Markets

The Bangkok Fish Markets are located close to the Chao Praya (Bangkok’s Main River) at Sapan Pla or ‘Fish Bridge’

In Thai … องค์การสะพานปลา

Here is their website http://www.fishmarke...x.php/home.html in Thai only.

MissFarmGirl left the property located between the Airport and the Gulf of Thailand in the wee hours of the morning with 3 trucks taking about an hour to reach the Markets.

External night time view

Night time delivery

Daylight approaches and still sorting

All sorted and awaiting sale

One that didn’t get away!

Daytime view, some may know that background building

For those who can read Thai, the 25 Baht parking Fee

Most will recognise the BTS crossing the River

I will admit that I left a few of the more ‘graphic’ images out of the post because I didn’t want to put you off you next tasty fish dish!

For any Fish harvest Ma or Pa estimate the size of the catch and rope in the rellies then hire people accordingly.

Roughly:- smaller catch 10 – 15 people and an anticipated larger catch brings 15 – 20 workers.

Usually the catch time is about 4 – 5 hours and the workers get 250 ฿ and also get fed (Fish I bet!).

For this particular harvest was only a part catch, hence the netting and not draining of the pond.

Maybe, in light of the recent small Fish kill, it was an attempt to reduce the total oxygen load on the system and size of the Fish killed indicated certainly a marketable size.

On Sunday morning the three utes transported 4,800 Kilos of fish to the market.

Yes, I did query the catch size and confirmed it.

But thinking about it, 3 utes, overloaded (TiT), carrying 1,600 kilo of Fish each!

Will come back soon with the wholesale prices obtained.

Above is some footage from the Market when the light was sufficient to capture.

Thanks RedBullHorn for the PM and the post above.

Edited March 20, 2012 by David48

[samsiam]

Nice thread.

Been to the fish markets down at ???Ranong??? on the Burmese border....very interesting place.

[edwinclapham]

An excellent thread guys. Thanks so much, pleased you pointed me in the right direction David.

[ray23]

How does that work with leaving a net out all night I would assume that is for prawns?

[ray23]

How does that work with leaving a net out all night I would assume that is for prawns?

Just a note we did catfish, they grow very quickly. But we have found Thai's really like them small. Our talapia pond is over stocked right now. We have emptied the cat fish pond. We got 50 baht a Kilo locally, by the time you do feed you can't grow them to a size where you can make a profit.

Talapia are about two inches long now, we kept them netted till they gained some size. Last time we tried this 2,000 eaten as fry. ( lesson learned)

We have much smaller ponds and pump ait 7/24 with low voltage pumps. We will add prawns in June when they are avaialble here in Udon. Might be a problem a they may become dinner for the Talapia. But. costs are small. So with an experiment.

we added mushrooms to our location and that keeps a good steady cash flow weather permitting. They sale for 45 baht a kilo here and very little to it once you sit it up. Expensive on front iend cost 8 Baht a container. 1150 plants at peak will produce 10 Kilos a day. We found a nitch close to us and so far we have not been able to keep up with demand

Talapia in this area sale at 90 baht a kilo. We have follwed Ozzie Dom's method. Nut we still feed daily.

Anything that goes to the bottom line without increasing costts much is a good deal.

We are in our first year still so a learning cycle and I appreciate your informtion

[David48]

Hi there Ray23 and apologies for not returning sooner but I didn't know there was any new posts to this thread.

I had set up the 'Follow this topic' but maybe everything got reset when TVF upgraded recently.

Since you have posted above I see that you have opened your personal thread on this subject in the Farming Forum so I'll defer to there as you seem to be getting some quality replies.

Good Luck with what you are doing ... and I'll follow your thread and the replies with interest.

[WilliamCave]

Wow what an excellent job u did on this explaining prawn farming in Thailand read every one of your posts. The family no dought in my mind work very hard and are very successful. They look to be very nice people and a beautiful girl friend good on u mate a real success story

[David48]

Well this is my 1,000^th Post and I thought it be appropriate that I post it ‘Down on Farm’.

Essentially a Photo Essay of the Fish Harvest conducted over 2 days late last year.

Again the photographer was MissFarmGirl

One tip when viewing pages like this ... open the first photo then run your cursor over the top right of the opened photo and the word 'NEXT' will come up and you can simply click and view each photo in the series easily and quickly.

DAY 1 … not long after 6am

Day 2 to follow next

Edited May 5, 2012 by David48

[ray23]

David I believe I understand how the trap works. Can you ask where they can be purchased?

I have an un usual pond fed by a fresh water. So draining would be very dificult

[David48]

Wow what an excellent job u did on this explaining prawn farming in Thailand read every one of your posts. The family no dought in my mind work very hard and are very successful. They look to be very nice people and a beautiful girl friend good on u mate a real success story

WilliamCave, I appreciate your kind words.

Also I must admit that I am very lucky to know them and yes, they are very hard working ... 7 days a week ... but with obligatory midday siesta!

So may think that working an operation is simple .. we all like fishing don't we?

Same as owning a dairy, it's a 7 day a week operation.

OH ... MissFarmGirl, has written and likes your 'beautiful girl friend' comment ... but let's not encourage her too much!

David I believe I understand how the trap works. Can you ask where they can be purchased?

I have an un usual pond fed by a fresh water. So draining would be very dificult

ray23, I assume that you are talking about the Prawn Trap?

Up your way I would have no idea where to buy them, but they are called a 'stupid net' and when she replies my email I'll have that in Thai for you.

[ozzydom]

David I believe I understand how the trap works. Can you ask where they can be purchased?

I have an un usual pond fed by a fresh water. So draining would be very dificult

Ray, pop into the Fisheries Division over near Prajak and seek out the girl who speaks english in the office ,she will put you on the right track.

[ray23]

Last I checked she was transfered to Sri Chaing Mai.

If we can get the name in Thai we can source them, I believe. I'll try the fishery a well. They do have girl who specializes in shrimp so that might work

Edited May 6, 2012 by ray23

[David48]

ozzydom ... thanks for the advice to ray23 and for taking the time to reply ... you are always welcome here ...

As for the net, I have a reply for you ray23

The reply I got was interesting and sometimes Thai people do not quantify things in the same way we do.

So, how it was explained to me via email was …

If the Shrimp have small size about more than 130/Kilo we must use the nets size 2 cm in diameter..

If the Shrimp have big size about less than 130/ Kilo we will use the nets size 3 cm in diameter..

We call the nets in Thai " ไอ้โง่ " if translation in English it is "Stupid net" … maybe it named this way because Shrimp, when they come in but can not go out...

Price the net about 800 Baht / net.

If you need more specific information let me know here.

[ray23]

This is a great thread much appreciated. Never seen anything close to that around Udon, so maybe a trip ot bangkok one of these days.

Thanks again

[David48]

Following on from post #52 above.

Notice that the water levels are significianly lower to almost nothing.

Day #2 ...

[David48]

Just a small true story for you budding Prawn/Shrimp Farmers.

Remember the English is very pigeon ... but I am sure her English is better then my Thai!

MissFarmGirl writes …

And I have story about the man with Shrimp Farm.

Yesterday we have rain all the day.

The man he had Shrimp Farm mix with Tilapia same My Parents Farm.

If you look the photos I sent to you about Nets you will see the photo about lamp for make light for Shrimp interest.

One lamp it not work the man he have boat like in my farm. he paddle (not sure this word) for fix the lamp but he still turn on electric

So when he touch the lamp ..remember? we have rain all day ..So lamp it wet from rain ..he have to electric shock and he fall in the pond.

When another man come it too late ...he can not help him.

When my father he have to fix the lamp he must have someone for help him.

We will turn off light and then wait for he say "Yes" we will turn on light...can not turn on when fix in same time.

Sad with his Family because he is friendly man..

And We think (Thai believe) If who die when Buddha Day it mean they are good person or it mean it is time for them...

and yesterday is Saturday 5/Month 5/Year 55 ...

Thai believe if the when Saturday number 5 it mean very Strong Day for Thai...

Most Thai people like to do many think on Saturday 5 (Religious beliefs)

I'm actually a qualified electrician but haven't picked a tool (for someone else) for over 20 years.

It still makes me shudder what passes for electrics here.

The bulb used to catch Prawns on the Farm is fed by some old 2 core, 'figure of 8' single insulated cable.

Edited May 8, 2012 by David48