Hopewell Train Pillars Collapses For A Stretch Of 150m: Bangkok

[Dante99]

Rather than blaming the thieves, how about blaming authorities for the stupidity of using scaffolding to hold up massive concrete beams?

Why not just go in there and tear down this constant eyesore reminder to failed government policy and failed business of the 90s?

For all the posters recommending the pylons be torn down - I agree.

Unfortunately Hopewell Holdings (HK) still retains ownership of the pillars (according to a Thai court) as there is still an ongoing dispute about payments due to Hopewell from the government.

One day in the misty future it may be resolved.....

If Hopewell owns them, then Hopewell is responsible. Great name Hopewell.

[newermonkey]

Part of Hopewell project in Chatuchak collapsed, no one injured

BANGKOK: -- A portion of abandoned Hopewell project near Kampaengpet Road on Thursday collapsed but no one was injured.

The concrete part linking pillars of the project that collapsed is near railway tracks in Chatuchak district and about 100 meters from Wat Samiennaree.

The Bt 80 billion project was approved in 1990 and was a joint project of the Thai authorities and and the Thai subsidiary of Hopewell Holdings of Hong Kong.

The construction ceased in August 1997 during the Asian financial crisis, with only around 10% complete. The project was formally terminated by the Cabinet in 1998.

-- The Nation 2012-03-01

This is a bit of non news, who cares? this "Hopeless" structure should have been demolished ages ago anyway, the thieves are doing the BMA a favor.

[anterian]

I've always thought of the unfinished expressway as Thailand's version of Stonehenge. Obviously its not going to last nearly as much as the Celtic one.

The Celts knew how to build!

[Payboy]

For all the posters recommending the pylons be torn down - I agree.

Unfortunately Hopewell Holdings (HK) still retains ownership of the pillars (according to a Thai court) as there is still an ongoing dispute about payments due to Hopewell from the government.

One day in the misty future it may be resolved.....

This ones not going to be resolved, I'm afraid. A few years back in a public interview Stanley Ho burnt all his bridges by openly criticizing successive Thai governments, bureaucratic ineptitude and generally all things Thai. It has become a matter of saving national face.

[airconsult]

For all the posters recommending the pylons be torn down - I agree.

Unfortunately Hopewell Holdings (HK) still retains ownership of the pillars (according to a Thai court) as there is still an ongoing dispute about payments due to Hopewell from the government.

One day in the misty future it may be resolved.....

This ones not going to be resolved, I'm afraid. A few years back in a public interview Stanley Ho burnt all his bridges by openly criticizing successive Thai governments, bureaucratic ineptitude and generally all things Thai. It has become a matter of saving national face.

Ah well.... Central Administrative court's had 3 and a bit years to consider it now - perhaps they'll come up with a ruling soon. Problem is, if they rule to reverse the arbitration decision, that may have a significant chilling effect on foreign investment in infrastructure construction - any many of the awards to Thai companies are really foreign/Thai partnerships. As this was, since it was actually an SRT/Hopewell project.

I think the ruling will be that SRT has to pay - and then SRT will quietly put in a budget request including the amount they need to pay to Hopewell.

I'm not sure how this collapse will be viewed by the parties (as a liability), but they did reach agreement on the destruction of pillars around Khlong Tan during the airportlink construction, so despite the arbitration ruling, they must have some management plan in mind. Not an easy decision, as about 1,500 pillars remain, and the total cost was 60million to remove the Khlong Tan ones (higher than the estimate of 2 million each) - but taking the estimate, it's 3 billion to knock them down, then the cost of building new ones, vs settling with Hopewell (say... 6 billion) then everyone is a winner.

[Payboy]

For all the posters recommending the pylons be torn down - I agree.

Unfortunately Hopewell Holdings (HK) still retains ownership of the pillars (according to a Thai court) as there is still an ongoing dispute about payments due to Hopewell from the government.

One day in the misty future it may be resolved.....

This ones not going to be resolved, I'm afraid. A few years back in a public interview Stanley Ho burnt all his bridges by openly criticizing successive Thai governments, bureaucratic ineptitude and generally all things Thai. It has become a matter of saving national face.

Ah well.... Central Administrative court's had 3 and a bit years to consider it now - perhaps they'll come up with a ruling soon. Problem is, if they rule to reverse the arbitration decision, that may have a significant chilling effect on foreign investment in infrastructure construction - any many of the awards to Thai companies are really foreign/Thai partnerships. As this was, since it was actually an SRT/Hopewell project.

I think the ruling will be that SRT has to pay - and then SRT will quietly put in a budget request including the amount they need to pay to Hopewell.

I'm not sure how this collapse will be viewed by the parties (as a liability), but they did reach agreement on the destruction of pillars around Khlong Tan during the airportlink construction, so despite the arbitration ruling, they must have some management plan in mind. Not an easy decision, as about 1,500 pillars remain, and the total cost was 60million to remove the Khlong Tan ones (higher than the estimate of 2 million each) - but taking the estimate, it's 3 billion to knock them down, then the cost of building new ones, vs settling with Hopewell (say... 6 billion) then everyone is a winner.

I think the arbitration committee awarded Hopewell 11.8 billion + interest @ 7.5% p.a. And considering the cost of knocking down those columns, the Thai's may just decide to wait until they all collapse by "natural" causes.

[GazR]

Just waiting for the 30-ish storey IE Building in Din Daeng (the outside was completed back in the 1980's but it never opened) to really start falling apart.

[GazR]

For all the posters recommending the pylons be torn down - I agree.

Unfortunately Hopewell Holdings (HK) still retains ownership of the pillars (according to a Thai court) as there is still an ongoing dispute about payments due to Hopewell from the government.

One day in the misty future it may be resolved.....

This ones not going to be resolved, I'm afraid. A few years back in a public interview Stanley Ho burnt all his bridges by openly criticizing successive Thai governments, bureaucratic ineptitude and generally all things Thai. It has become a matter of saving national face.

Ah well.... Central Administrative court's had 3 and a bit years to consider it now - perhaps they'll come up with a ruling soon. Problem is, if they rule to reverse the arbitration decision, that may have a significant chilling effect on foreign investment in infrastructure construction - any many of the awards to Thai companies are really foreign/Thai partnerships. As this was, since it was actually an SRT/Hopewell project.

I think the ruling will be that SRT has to pay - and then SRT will quietly put in a budget request including the amount they need to pay to Hopewell.

I'm not sure how this collapse will be viewed by the parties (as a liability), but they did reach agreement on the destruction of pillars around Khlong Tan during the airportlink construction, so despite the arbitration ruling, they must have some management plan in mind. Not an easy decision, as about 1,500 pillars remain, and the total cost was 60million to remove the Khlong Tan ones (higher than the estimate of 2 million each) - but taking the estimate, it's 3 billion to knock them down, then the cost of building new ones, vs settling with Hopewell (say... 6 billion) then everyone is a winner.

I think the arbitration committee awarded Hopewell 11.8 billion + interest @ 7.5% p.a. And considering the cost of knocking down those columns, the Thai's may just decide to wait until they all collapse by "natural" causes.

The the victims can be said to have died from 'natural causes' too.

You couldn't make this stuff up - and in Thailand you don't need to.

[swerver]

The level of stupidity of some people is not to be underestimated. Remember when they stole bolts from electricity pylons causing one to collapse?

I have vivid recollection of a contractor working on a long conveyor belt who noticed the copper bus-bars in the local switch-room. He came back to steal it at night, somehow ignoring the fact that the belt was operating (quite noisy), and the bus was energised at 33,000V. As they say in the armoured corp, "one flash and you're ash."

Is it also registered as stealing when people involved with what I refer to as maintenance do not replace inspection panels? Inspection panels that prevent any idiot from getting its fingers into High Voltage electrical equipment. Being a foreign dignitary’s showoff road these dignitaries if at all observant must be impressed with all these gaping openings showing the inners of the electrical equipment.

Drive along the Royal Road 7 and from the Thaksin era there are these Bt. 250,000 each multi light poles with practically speaking ALL the inspection covers missing. So there are (oh what a JOKE) technicians who remove these panels, then there is their supervisor, then there is the QA inspector, then there is the Hiway Dept. lighting equipment inspector, then there is the comptroller of the government coffers and none of these people are concerned with that these panels bought with taxpayers money have disappeared?

And then there are plane loads of farangs coming-and-going who refer to this place as “PARADISE”. Well if this is paradise, I prefer to go to HELL.

[OZEMADE]

Just the usual corruption which is more than likley why the job was not completed. Also who in their right mind would steal scaffolding/angle iron which was allegedly holding up tons of concrete, steel and concrete mesh. With all the rain floods and general weather over all those years, of course it would eventually collapse.

[rubl]

In 1997 - 1998 The Hopewell company tried to finish a few more miles of pillars to show they were at it. Hopeless, plus it might have effected the quality of the work done. Bank of Ayutthaya Head Office on RamaIII has some very rusty remains of a Sahariya project next to them, just before the river. Makes you wonder why some things didn't collapse before.

[poach]

Maybe the terrorists will help them finish the demolition.

[Sydebolle]

Test concluded and, as of last summer ..... bills PAID. We remember this little incident at Munich airport where Thai state property was confiscated until somebody forked over EUR 38 mio.

If you want to explain somebody, how Thailand works over the last 30 years then book a flight out of Don Meuaioung. Passing this incredible mess on leaving possibly the ugliest capital and its eternal traffic jams just to board an airconditioned flight into the 21st century says it all. A succession of incompetent, greedy, corrupt governments managed to throw back this country by decades and if not a miracle happens then Thailand will reach in 25 years the level which the Philippines are in today. No leadership, no vision, rampant corruption and no direction.

What a terribly sad state.......

[Ricardo]

I suppose it was perhaps lucky, that the collapse wasn't set-off by the vibration from a passing train, and so the concrete didn't fall onto a train & its passengers ...

[tingtongfarang]

The failure of the hopewell project was a result of the thai government applying constant pressure to to the owner of the hongkong based company and his refusal to get involved in corruption which had a flawless history untill this project, He warned them the project would fail if corruption was involved...they did,nt believe it and he quit vowing never to take on another project in thailand,

He was asked more than once to come back when they had plans to revitalise the project but point blank refused...as far as i can tell the company has never had another failure or gone over the buget or completion date.

Edited March 3, 2012 by tingtongfarang

[x5david]

Hopewell section crumbles

MONTIEN INTAKET

WATCHARAPONG THONGRUNG

THE NATION

No injuries, but debris litters railway; officials say parts of supporting scaffolding stolen

BANGKOK: -- A section of the abandoned Hopewell elevated train project collapsed in Bangkok's Chatuchak district yesterday morning, prompting authorities to check the strength of the rest of the project's towering, unused structures. No one was injured in yesterday's collapse.

Transport Minister Charupong Ruangsuwan said he had instructed the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) to check the Hopewell structures and reinforce them where necessary.

"The SRT has also been ordered to consider dismantling those parts that consist only of iron," he said.

Charupong said the SRT has assigned the Engineering Institute of Thailand to examine the Hopewell structures.

"I have received a report that the SRT had used scaffolding to support some parts of the Hopewell structure [that collapsed], but someone stole iron bars from the scaffolding. The iron scaffolding could not longer shoulder the weight of a concrete beam supporting the structure," the transport minister said.

When the concrete beam crumbled, concrete chunks were scattered over a nearby inbound railway track. Arrangements were made to use an alternate tack, ensuring train service continued uninterrupted even as officials continued to remove debris from the track.

Locals said they rushed to the site after hearing something collapse. The spot is just 100 metres from Samian Naree Temple.

Police suggested that stolen bolts and iron bars within the scaffolding, in addition to a lack of maintenance, might have been responsible for the collapse of the long-neglected structure.

Investigations are ongoing to determine the exact cause of the incident.

SRT Governor Yuttana Tapcharoen yesterday said it took about three hours to clear the debris from the affected track, and that it would take about one week to clear all of the debris from the affected area.

"Engineers will be dispatched to determine the extent of the damage to the structure," he said.

Yuttana said the strength of the structure had been checked earlier, prompting the erection of scaffolding to support the concrete beam.

"But recently, thieves stole iron bars from the structure. That's probably why the beam fell," he said.

Initiated during the Chatichai Choonhavan administration, the Hopewell Project was planned as an elevated train route intended to solve Bangkok's traffic problems. SNC-Lavalin was named the concessionaire of the project in a contract signed by the then-transport minister in 1990.

The contract was later reviewed, scrapped and revived, before being permanently abandoned in 1997.

After the government officially cancelled the contract, the concessionaire demanded compensation.

On November 8, 2008, an arbitration panel issued a ruling requiring the Transport Ministry and SRT to pay Bt11.885 billion to the concessionaire, who started construction but never finished it.

Many structures erected as part of the doomed project still stand in Bangkok.

An informed source said the SRT had filed a petition with the Central Administrative Court asking for permission not to pay compensation to the Hopewell concessionaire.

Authorities have been looking into the possibility of integrating some of the unused Hopewell structures into the Red Line train project.

-- The Nation 2012-03-02

"Ordered to consider" if that isn't the Thai way to get something done....oh my

[x5david]

Just the usual corruption which is more than likley why the job was not completed. Also who in their right mind would steal scaffolding/angle iron which was allegedly holding up tons of concrete, steel and concrete mesh. With all the rain floods and general weather over all those years, of course it would eventually collapse.

I think you answered your own question..."who in their right mind"...not sure any of the natives have ever been accused of having a brain...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Unfortunately Hopewell Holdings (HK) still retains ownership of the pillars (according to a Thai court) as there is still an ongoing dispute about payments due to Hopewell from the government.

How in the world has it dragged on for this many years after the demise of the project, and still not settled yet? The project died almost 15 years ago.

I remember those pillars being one of the first things I saw the first time I came to Thailand years ago, on the drive in from DM Airport into the city.

Always thought they were indeed a kind of monument to the pitfalls of non-Thais trying to do business here, or more broadly, on the dangers of relying on the government to accomplish anything.

Edited March 3, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[osiboy]

Rather than blaming the thieves, how about blaming authorities for the stupidity of using scaffolding to hold up massive concrete beams?

Why not just go in there and tear down this constant eyesore reminder to failed government policy and failed business of the 90s?

For all the posters recommending the pylons be torn down - I agree.

Unfortunately Hopewell Holdings (HK) still retains ownership of the pillars (according to a Thai court) as there is still an ongoing dispute about payments due to Hopewell from the government.

One day in the misty future it may be resolved.....

time to confiscate another airoplane then !!,......... a gov;t that does'nt pay its debts ?? a great example to its ppl,.... not suprised i have never been repayed any money thais have borrowed from me !

[bigbamboo]

Why aren't TAT advertising this as yet another tourist attraction in Amazing Thailand?

Didn't anybody consider that these eyesores bring shame and disrespect to Thailand? Would it be over reaction to wonder just how safe and secure all the other elevated roads and the Skytrain is?

The Pillars of Hopewell? Hopewell's Folly? The Great White Elephant of Thailand? I'm sure TAT could come up with something miraculous.

Edited March 4, 2012 by bigbamboo

[thaibeachlovers]

I have seen those pillars under construction , I look at those pillars everytime I go back home ..means everyday on vipavadee road .... ugly for sure ... defenetely useless now .. why not tear them down? , take back the metal , throw away the concrete .... it really looks bad ... some kind of unfinish business but was it because of the crisis in 1997 that it stopped ? I doubt ..

I remember the construction phase. I always understood that the company collapsed because of the usual reason. It's a pity that the pillars couldn't be used by another company, but Hopewell wouldn't allow it.

I doubt that any of the steelwork is sound now, after so many years unprotected in the weather. Certainly the exposed wires are rusted beyond salvage, and the pillars would be weakened.

Edited March 4, 2012 by thaibeachlovers

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In the various back articles I read through on this subject, there seemed to be a lot of talk and speculation about the pillars potentially being used as part of the structures for any of several planned future rail lines in BKK...

But I couldn't quite tell from reading the various reports whether that notion had ever come to any conclusion... Perhaps not because of the still pending legal case over the damages and money.

Still, there seemed to have been various studies done by supposed "experts" on whether the pillars that had been originally completed (as opposed to the partly completed ones) could still be found structurally sound for future use. The expert opinions on that topic seemed to be mixed.

But one of the more stupid comments, at least to me, that I read came from one supposed expert who opined that since the original columns had never been used or had to carry heavy weight, that they surely would be in good condition for future use.

I sure don't want to ever be in any building that that guy may have had anything to do with.