Khun Jean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I'm aware of a farang here in Chiang Mai who used the company route to buy and build a house, this being some eight years ago. As of today he has been given ninety days notice by the Land Office to move his property out of company opwnership and into private ownership, otherwise his house will be confiscated. The company in question exists solely to own the property and the farang has filed year end reports etc. every year. Well there you have it! Notice that Thailand is so friendly to give some time to correct the mistake. Friendly host! He probably is going to register it to his wife and get a usufruct. If he had done that 8 years ago, before marriage if possible, it would have saved him a lot of money. Now, start saying chiang mai is lying and you need proof with a link. Oh wait, i have one http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5119816 Edited March 9, 2012 by Khun Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm aware of a farang here in Chiang Mai who used the company route to buy and build a house, this being some eight years ago. As of today he has been given ninety days notice by the Land Office to move his property out of company opwnership and into private ownership, otherwise his house will be confiscated. The company in question exists solely to own the property and the farang has filed year end reports etc. every year. Well there you have it! Notice that Thailand is so friendly to give some time to correct the mistake. Friendly host! He probably is going to register it to his wife and get a usufruct before marriage if possible. If he had done that 8 years ago, it would have saved him a lot of money. Now, start saying chiang mai is lying and you need proof with a link. Oh wait, i have one http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5119816 I don't quite understand the context of all of that KJ, whilst I personally have never bought a house here in Thailand (prefering condo's) the grape vine has been shouting loud and clear for many years that using a Thai company for the sole purpose of home ownership by a farang is against the law! I imagined it was common knowldge and widely understood, indeed, close friends who previously owned homes using that method converted some six years ago and Mrs CM, being Thai, is the legal (notional) owner of two such properties on their behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 @chiang mai, A quick search with google on buying realestate in Thailand will show you that many still promote the company route. I am one of those that keep pushing the message that it is not legal. The bad information is still out there. And new topics like this is proof that it is not common knowledge. Ask another member who knows hundreds personally who have no problems owning through a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I was referring to corporations who own land here via the proxy method. Not sure there's another way to do it??? I've been to immigration several times with my company book and stamp to prove residence. Never had a problem, never had a raised eyebrow. As has been asked in dozens of threads before, I'd like to see a link to someone who lost their home due to use of this proxy method. Seriously, I'd really like to see it. i was referring to Your company in this case cannot stand any should someone wish to look deep enough. A corp doesn't have that risk. which is a ridiculous statement from somebody who possesses a wealth of no idea. Edited March 9, 2012 by Naam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayinkrabi Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hmm, this topic has been covered many times before and the 'setting up a company route' is very well known to be against Thai law. In fact I understand there is a gov't department in BK dedicated to investigate these..how long before they decide it would be worthwhile to invest in 00's of additional employees to deal with it? imo, best not to try to play with fire in the first place, there are legal alternatives. One question tho..in the case of property owned by a legit company, what happens if the company ceases to trade for whatever reason? I'm assuming simply to continue paying the accountant etc. to keep the company 'appearing active' would also be in breach of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 it is unfair, they mess with foreigners like that, only condos you can buy, f... that. it just sucks Try getting a visa for a Thai woman who wants to live in a western country. That sucks even more. Rules have to be only fair for its own citizens, all the others have a choice to accept those rules upon entry. Obtaining a visa for a Thai lady to visit/stay in any European country is simple providing it is a genuine relationship and you can prove that you have sufficient funds to support them. A man that arrives here on holiday and wants to take a bar girl back after being with her for two weeks is a different storey. The Thai visa system is again very fair to genuine people wanting to stay here. If you have family ties, work or are of retirement age and have sufficient funds you can get yearly visas/extensions without a problem. Who is saying anything about a Thai being married to a foreigner, and why give an example about bargirls? Are you from pattaya by any change? Let me guess you know hundreds of people personally that have no problems with visas. Yes I do know of hundreds of Thai females that live abroad.....They have either gone to study, work or with their partners.....each time a visa has been simple. However if it is not a legitimate reason for visiting then NO they wont be granted a visa....same as any nationality that wishes to visit any country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delight Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Shortly after the coup in 2006 the Thai Parliament was asked to pass a law which stated that if a foreigner had controlling voting rights in a Thai Company –then the Company must change to the status of it being a Foreigner Company .A foreigner company must have a minimum 40M Baht investment. The initiative for this was to deal with the issue raised in this post-i.e. foreigners circumventing the principal of the Thai law with respect to land Many Thais argue that the presence of Foreigners (particularly Farang) distorts the Thai way of life. i.e. taking Thais away from the farm etc. The Bill failed. Principles are one thing-money is another. As usual money wins. The only reason why Foreigners can legally own a Condo (51% Thai /49% Foreigner )is because the IMF insisted on this ruling –at the time Thailand needed a loan. The original ratio was 60/40. It was a Thai initiative to change to 51/49 . In my view the chances of the Thai government shooting themselves in the foot by insisting on the ‘Foreigner Company’ route are extremely slim-unless they feel that towns such as Pattaya ,Hua Hin and Puket etc. would be best served by returning them to their former status of fishing villages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 @chiang mai, A quick search with google on buying realestate in Thailand will show you that many still promote the company route. I am one of those that keep pushing the message that it is not legal. The bad information is still out there. And new topics like this is proof that it is not common knowledge. Ask another member who knows hundreds personally who have no problems owning through a company. Thanks and you're right to keep pushing the message, except some people just wont be helped, far too many flat earthers out there I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donx Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm aware of a farang here in Chiang Mai who used the company route to buy and build a house, this being some eight years ago. As of today he has been given ninety days notice by the Land Office to move his property out of company opwnership and into private ownership, otherwise his house will be confiscated. The company in question exists solely to own the property and the farang has filed year end reports etc. every year. Your post is the first one that I recall ever reading claiming that someone who used the Thai company route for land ownership was being forced to change the ownership from the company to a private ownership. If true (and I have no reason to doubt you) I wonder if this is a limited case. Is this something that only this land office is doing? What caused the land office to look at his situation? I am married to a Thai so I prefer to have my wife own rather than deal with all the risks and issues surrounding Thai company ownership. Nevertheless, I have always read as much about this as possible since it appears to provide for many foreigners a viable mechanism for controlling land. A few years back there was serious talk about how everyone that owned land via a Thai company was going to lose their land. That mass crackdown never happened as I recall. Some did change their ownership structures but they did so for their own piece of mind. I don't recall any land office demanding a change of ownership. After this scare, I did read that land offices were refusing to allow land ownership by Thai companies if one of the company officers was a foreigner. I don't know if this is still the case. I do know that one of the methods lawyers came up with to circumvent this restriction was to purchase the land using a Thai company solely controlled by Thais. Once the land was purchased by the company, the foreigner was made an officer of the company and provided control through the voting rights of the shares that the foreigner owned. Most of those that condone the company ownership route have owned their propery for several years. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has recently gone to the land office and purchased land for a Thai company that they are an officer of and which was created for the sole purpose of owning land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) I'd never really thought too much about the issue until I came across this thread, I suspect the case that I describe is not isolated although I also guess that it's not something that people really want to talk about too much! In the example that I described: two farang familes purchased land in a company name eight(ish) years ago and they each built a house - one farang was married to a Thai and the other was a farang couple. The farang/Thai marriage ended in divorce and went to courtfor financial settlement (some messy bits and pieces involved) and the farang couple chose that moment to separate their involvement in the shared land. Using one of Chiang Mai's best known lawyers the farang couple aranged to have the land and house ownership registered in my wife's name and all the associated documents were complied and signed, job done. The divorce of the farang/Thai couple was subsequently settled and the farang continued to own his land (he kept the house in the divorce) via the company, filing annual accounts etc. Some three years after the divorce and out of the blue (six months ago) the government wrote to him asking details about his company and essentially began to investigate the business of the company, of which there was really none. At an informal meeting he was advised to move his house into private ownership, but because he didn't, they wrote to him and told him to do so or loose it. So, there was no real catalyst that made the Land Office look at him closely, in fact I believe it was the Companies people who were doing the looking and not the Land Office, initially. The divorce could have been a catalyst but there was three years between the two events so I discount that, I/we presumed this all came about as a result of the normal due diligence undertaken by the Companies folk. Edited March 10, 2012 by chiang mai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necronx99 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I know this is a big issue here in Thailand, but thousands of foreigners own property here via the company route. As well as many very large foreign corporations. Have not heard of anyone losing their house yet?? We're small potatoes compared to the corporations. It's a matter of scrutiny yes? Your company in this case cannot stand any should someone wish to look deep enough. A corp doesn't have that risk. what is the difference between a company and a corporation? In the context of the post I was replying to, one being created to circumvent property laws, the other having a legitimate business. But a smart man like you would have figured that out, so this is obviously a rhetorical question. You're not very happy are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strollling Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 If you can't afford to lose your investment, don't bother. If can afford to lose it, without crying, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'd never really thought too much about the issue until I came across this thread, I suspect the case that I describe is not isolated although I also guess that it's not something that people really want to talk about too much! In the example that I described: two farang familes purchased land in a company name eight(ish) years ago and they each built a house - one farang was married to a Thai and the other was a farang couple. The farang/Thai marriage ended in divorce and went to courtfor financial settlement (some messy bits and pieces involved) and the farang couple chose that moment to separate their involvement in the shared land. Using one of Chiang Mai's best known lawyers the farang couple aranged to have the land and house ownership registered in my wife's name and all the associated documents were complied and signed, job done. The divorce of the farang/Thai couple was subsequently settled and the farang continued to own his land (he kept the house in the divorce) via the company, filing annual accounts etc. Some three years after the divorce and out of the blue (six months ago) the government wrote to him asking details about his company and essentially began to investigate the business of the company, of which there was really none. At an informal meeting he was advised to move his house into private ownership, but because he didn't, they wrote to him and told him to do so or loose it. So, there was no real catalyst that made the Land Office look at him closely, in fact I believe it was the Companies people who were doing the looking and not the Land Office, initially. The divorce could have been a catalyst but there was three years between the two events so I discount that, I/we presumed this all came about as a result of the normal due diligence undertaken by the Companies folk. methinks there's more to this than meets the eye. during my many years of searching about this, I've never heard of it happening. I just recently bought property via a company, as a foreign director, and did it with the land office. Obviously. Not a problem. They never batted an eye. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Good luck Thomas, I hope it all works out well. Just curious, which part of the country did you buy your property, Chiang Mai or elsewhere? Also, did you read the rest of the thread or just my post? Edited March 10, 2012 by chiang mai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 If you can't afford to lose your investment, don't bother. If can afford to lose it, without crying, go for it. Troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'd never really thought too much about the issue until I came across this thread, I suspect the case that I describe is not isolated although I also guess that it's not something that people really want to talk about too much! In the example that I described: two farang familes purchased land in a company name eight(ish) years ago and they each built a house - one farang was married to a Thai and the other was a farang couple. The farang/Thai marriage ended in divorce and went to courtfor financial settlement (some messy bits and pieces involved) and the farang couple chose that moment to separate their involvement in the shared land. Using one of Chiang Mai's best known lawyers the farang couple aranged to have the land and house ownership registered in my wife's name and all the associated documents were complied and signed, job done. The divorce of the farang/Thai couple was subsequently settled and the farang continued to own his land (he kept the house in the divorce) via the company, filing annual accounts etc. Some three years after the divorce and out of the blue (six months ago) the government wrote to him asking details about his company and essentially began to investigate the business of the company, of which there was really none. At an informal meeting he was advised to move his house into private ownership, but because he didn't, they wrote to him and told him to do so or loose it. So, there was no real catalyst that made the Land Office look at him closely, in fact I believe it was the Companies people who were doing the looking and not the Land Office, initially. The divorce could have been a catalyst but there was three years between the two events so I discount that, I/we presumed this all came about as a result of the normal due diligence undertaken by the Companies folk. methinks there's more to this than meets the eye. during my many years of searching about this, I've never heard of it happening. I just recently bought property via a company, as a foreign director, and did it with the land office. Obviously. Not a problem. They never batted an eye. Easy. I forgot to add to my earlier reply: you probably don't need to worry about the Land Office passing judgement on whether your company is legal or otherwise, they are not interested in that sort of thing hence I'm not surprised that everyone was smiles and eye lids were not batted! But, perhaps if you were to go to the Thai equivelent of Companies House and ask them about your purchasing arangements, we'd all be keen to hear what they have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiola Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 so I guess it is 95% safe to won a house, i just want to live the rest of my 40 years in piece. I dont care what happened to my house after ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlen10002 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You can buy a Condo legally in Thailand if the building has 51% of Thai owership, , you can not buy land no matter what anyone tells you so you can not really buy a house legally, I have spoken to a good Thai friend of mine and he is a Lawyer and a good one, he said there are many ways people try to get around it but if something happens you are stuffed and will lose everything, why any Farang wants to buy a house in Thailand is beyond me, with the low cost for rent, and the low appreciation on houses here, and the huge risk of lossing everything. had a friend in the north, he had two houses and was happy married for over ten years, then his wife decided her family needed the houses and he lost the lot, now he has only his pension , no wife and is really in the s,,hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You can buy a Condo legally in Thailand if the building has 51% of Thai owership, , you can not buy land no matter what anyone tells you so you can not really buy a house legally, I have spoken to a good Thai friend of mine and he is a Lawyer and a good one, he said there are many ways people try to get around it but if something happens you are stuffed and will lose everything, why any Farang wants to buy a house in Thailand is beyond me, with the low cost for rent, and the low appreciation on houses here, and the huge risk of lossing everything. had a friend in the north, he had two houses and was happy married for over ten years, then his wife decided her family needed the houses and he lost the lot, now he has only his pension , no wife and is really in the s,,hit. A foriegner can own a house legally in Thailand and many do, you are correct however about foriegners not being allowed to own land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 so I guess it is 95% safe to won a house, i just want to live the rest of my 40 years in piece. I dont care what happened to my house after ha ha Get a 30-year lease, don't believe anyone telling you the second 30-year "guarantee" is worth anything or even legal. With all the extra stress and excitement in your life that's probably enough 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 One post has been removed from view. Please keep it on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I would hate to guess how many Western men have lost their houses to their wives back home. I'm sure more than in Thailand. Marriage is a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 so I guess it is 95% safe to won a house, i just want to live the rest of my 40 years in piece. I dont care what happened to my house after ha ha Get a 30-year lease, don't believe anyone telling you the second 30-year "guarantee" is worth anything or even legal. With all the extra stress and excitement in your life that's probably enough 8-) Agreed, the second 30 years is not written into law and cannot be guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 @chiang mai, A quick search with google on buying realestate in Thailand will show you that many still promote the company route. I am one of those that keep pushing the message that it is not legal. The bad information is still out there. And new topics like this is proof that it is not common knowledge. Ask another member who knows hundreds personally who have no problems owning through a company. Thanks and you're right to keep pushing the message, except some people just wont be helped, far too many flat earthers out there I'm afraid. I think it a combination of ignorance on behalf of the newbie buyer and local lawyers being total disingenuous (being polite here since we have lawyers as sponsors) regarding the fact that company ownership has been a grey area for well over 20 years. On my first Thai rodeo in the 80's, foreigners started acquiring land and houses this way but even back then it was suspect. Every so often they tweak the law such as the Thai shareholders of such a company have to furnish evidence of paying there taxes. The company I set up way back then had 8 Thai's holding the 51% and I only knew 3 of them personally... the lawyer provided the rest. I know for a fact that my mae bahn (who was on my company roster) didn't pay any taxes in her whole life (RIP). I got rid of the houses and dissolved the company after about 8 years when I left Thailand to detox and get a reality check. Now that was back when the expat house owner was either a sexpat or worked the oil patch or international construction, or pipelay... or maybe even an exotic hybrid of these! They have either crashed and burned and left or, like myself, have happily made their beds and laying in them. Most of my peers who have had good fortune with the fair sex in LOS have decided that all this company ownership is not only a pain on the arse but a pretty good slap in the face of their life partner. They put up with your weird farang sh!t for years and bear your progeny but are denied the trust to be the home owner? After all these years? Most, like myself have put the farm in the wife's name and sleep easy. I trust her more than I ever trusted my lawyers. I trusted the first one too btw but that was just before the training wheels had come of my Thai bike. However, there's a new demographic in LOS and it's mostly retiree foreign couples that are flocking to Thailand now, with the latest surge coming from Russia. They are the goose laying the golden egg for all these realtors and lawyers who still say they can legally own their houses and land through a majority Thai-owned company. They can't sell that BS to the old hands but there's loads of wide-eyed new arrivals with loads of money who don't care if the deal isn't 100% kosher.... the sunset view from the new place is simply to die for. How do these punters hear about Thailand? Apparently there's a fair amount of glossy magazines for the prematurely rich and gormless that keep rating Thailand as the retirees dream and brazenly claim, 'you can own this!' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 As far as I can tell from reading this forum since 2004, there are only on average seven new wide eyed arivals here per year, everyone else has been here for at least fifteen years. The job of educating that group is therefore quite easy in that we only have seven people to find each year, has anyone ever met one of them I wonder, I haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) As far as I can tell from reading this forum since 2004, there are only on average seven new wide eyed arivals here per year, everyone else has been here for at least fifteen years. The job of educating that group is therefore quite easy in that we only have seven people to find each year, has anyone ever met one of them I wonder, I haven't. Seven per year where? Sign on this forum or pitching their tent in Chiang Mai? If all the punters that have chosen to retire here signed up on TV, George would need bigger servers! We only get to hear from the ones that either find out or are made aware of how dodgy their real estate investment is after the fact. That's usually way after the realization that Tesco's is different, there's open prostitution, the smiling plod only wants your money, customer service is not an option, everything is written in Thai (confounded annoying that), farangs pay more and pedestrian crossings are not for crossing the road. None of that is mentioned in the retirement and 'investment' glossies. Edited March 11, 2012 by NanLaew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Sorry, I was being sarcastic and poking fun at the newbies who become 15 year experts overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notime Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The company route to own land in Thailand is a scam. From what I understand the purpose for setting up a Thai company is to make a profit. So, the company must do some business. If it doesn't and exist solely to own land it is illegal and can be closed. The foreigners who use Thai companies for purchase of landed properties like holiday homes or permanent homes are miss-informed by the scores of money-hungry Thais, and other "local foreigners" who benefit from their money. Likewise, Thailand isn't prepared to enforce this and many other of her laws due to corruption. But it doesn't mean that that buying land in this way is safe for foreigners involved. Only when your company is doing some other business and pay income taxes it can be defended. So, for sake of an answer to this post, the OP would be better off buying a condo in his own name. Unless he wants to do business in Thailand of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soboringtochooseaname Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I know this is a big issue here in Thailand, but thousands of foreigners own property here via the company route. As well as many very large foreign corporations. Have not heard of anyone losing their house yet?? We're small potatoes compared to the corporations. Compare it to driving fast or through a red light. Personally i always drive a little to fast, in the last 10 years i got caught 1 time. Pay the ticket and it is over. Problem with a company owning land is that you are vulnerable to being caught every day! And one time it will happen. Loosing the land/house, paying fines, being deported, visas being denied are all possible outcomes. I would not sleep good with that reality. Yes, sure, they might emasculate you too ! Stop being paranoiac ! They will just ask for some tea money and that's all ! Nothing more than speeding or crossing red light ! Edited March 11, 2012 by Soboringtochooseaname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I know this is a big issue here in Thailand, but thousands of foreigners own property here via the company route. As well as many very large foreign corporations. Have not heard of anyone losing their house yet?? We're small potatoes compared to the corporations. Compare it to driving fast or through a red light. Personally i always drive a little to fast, in the last 10 years i got caught 1 time. Pay the ticket and it is over. Problem with a company owning land is that you are vulnerable to being caught every day! And one time it will happen. Loosing the land/house, paying fines, being deported, visas being denied are all possible outcomes. I would not sleep good with that reality. Yes, sure, they might emasculate you too ! Stop being paranoiac ! They will just ask for some tea money and that's all ! Nothing more than speeding or crossing red light ! Agreed. Still waiting for a link showing somebody who has lost their home due to use of a proxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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