Relocating In Chiang Mai

[blossombkk]

hi guys,

I currently live in bkk and intend to relocate in chiang mai in june. I would like to change atmosphere, weather, and to be able to travel in the north. i have two girls : one of them is attending international school and the other is homeschooling. so my questions are of convenience, financial and farang hangouts matters :

What is the apprx rent for a 2 bedroom house/apartment?

Is cost of living cheaper a great deal then bkk or about similar?

are there many farang families and is it easy to meat them?

Does anybody know about 16 yr old farang teenagers and where could we meat them?

What are the things to do there as an adult? and also as 12/16 yr olds?

How do you avoid the terrible pollutions?

I would appreciate information regarding the matter or anything additional that might be helpful.

thanks in advance!

[tolstoy]

Rent should be around 10-15K a month unless you want something with a pool. There are plenty of kids for your daughters to hang out with her age at the International schools here. Most the kids that I know that age are German though.

Chiang Mai has little to do compared to BKK. There is an abundance of easy going things to do but not much in the way of excitement. Art and Music scene are pretty lame here. I know others will get on and disagree but BKK wins hands down for choice of nightly entertainment. CM has a good family feel to it and your kids will be safer for certain.

Can you please edit your post and change meat to meet. I want to vomit everytime I read that.

[folium]

You are probably opening the proverbial can of worms re the merits or not of CM; everyone has their opinions.

In a nutshell, CM is a lot quieter, hence the reason folks choose to retire here. it is by and large cheaper, but that obviously depends on your lifestyle, taste in accommodation etc.

Farang families here are different to BKK, as there are far fewer professional types here due to the lack of multinationals in CM, and far more farangs married to Thais as a % of the farang population. Most farangs here are either self-employed, retired or work overseas but keep a base/family here. There is also a sizeable group of missionaries (western & Korean, no accurate figure of exactly how many) with children at Grace & CMIS and living largely in World Club Land moo baan.

re teenagers, the choice of schools has been endlessly debated on this forum and depends entirely on what style (US, UK, IB, German, Thai)

you need. Again the range of teenagers reflects the adult population with a large number of leuk krueung, missionary kids, and Koreans (both missionary and kids sent here for cheaper education than that available back home). Depending on which international school your daughter is currently at in BKK she may find a very different student population here.

Again as for adults there is much less of a range of ready made activities for teenagers compared to BKK, so it is largely a case of DIY.

Avoiding the pollution. Pray for a regular repeat of 2011, move to the coast for March or hope that the government actually does something about it.

Best thing about CM, if you are so inclined is that it is a pleasant, convenient place that makes a good base for exploring northern Thailand and the rest of the SE Asian region as more direct flights come to CNX, slowly but surely.

But it really depends on what you do and what you expect, same for your other half if appropriate, but don't come here expecting a lifestyle similar to BKK. For some that's a great plus, for others a problem, again depends on what floats your boat.

If you want to chat more, drop me a message. Hope Myanmar was fun.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Hope you don't mind if I piggy-back off your post, as I'm in a similar situation but sounds like at a lower income and with younger children.

As I'm coming to work on a factory management troubleshooting project and have limited experience in that specific field and none in this region of Thailand, I'm also looking to connect up with others that can help me get up to speed.

To answer some of your questions, from my initial visit, it seems that many costs are quite a bit lower, or rather, you can get better value if you're spending the same money, particularly on housing. Outside food seems similar, the open-air markets not quite as cheap as Klong Toey in BKK as you'd expect. Domestic help of all kinds should be much less expensive, one friend of mine there has a full-time live-in Burmese maid for ß6,000 per month, tips her generously for special services, maybe all-up 10-11K.

I'm sure stuff like electronics isn't quite as competitive, and the selection of things like clothing, films, events, professional services much more limited, certainly not as many pre-packaged entertainment options.

Can't really "escape" air pollution, but it is a seasonal problem, not so bad the rest of the year. A decently sealed home, HEPA air filters or the ionizing/electrostatic type can help, make sure to regularly clean your aircon units etc., all that will help, but if you have family members with respiratory problems. . .

[blossombkk]

Hi, Yes Myanmar was fun, we went for a visa run.

since my 16 yr old is homeschooling, are there places where she could meet her own age? she is not willing to meet any local people and it's been an issue here in bkk. are there any courses she could take like photoshop, clothes designing and other hobbies?

the activities i'm looking for are more of a nature type and meeting farangs for my daughter's sake. I really am interested in exploring the northern part of thailand since we will have two more years before we'll go back home.

Do you have more insights re the above?

thanks

[folium]

Hi, Yes Myanmar was fun, we went for a visa run. since my 16 yr old is homeschooling, are there places where she could meet her own age? she is not willing to meet any local people and it's been an issue here in bkk. are there any courses she could take like photoshop, clothes designing and other hobbies? the activities i'm looking for are more of a nature type and meeting farangs for my daughter's sake. I really am interested in exploring the northern part of thailand since we will have two more years before we'll go back home. Do you have more insights re the above? thanks

Think you might need to message me on this.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You're going to find significantly fewer Farang 16 year olds here compared to Bangkok. And the ones you do find will be from missionary families so will have severe mental issues after all that indoctrination.

Will be some mixed Thai/Western teenagers who are more normal, but not sure if they would qualify for your daughter. Also, home schooling means she's not meeting any peers, are you sure you want to continue on the home schooling path? Kids that age need to feel part of society I think, and moving to CM may seem to her as moving even further from any kind of social comfort zone.

[blossombkk]

Hi, homeschooling was her decision. she couldn't get along with peers not from our country and she still insists on doing that. I want her to meet friends casually. well this is tough. that's why i want to find courses for her. something in arts, flower arranging, photoshop etc... any ideas?

[tolstoy]

I don't get why she rejects hanging out with Thai kids.

As for the Art classes. There used to be a group of expats that ran some kind of art coop. They had painting and even stained glass classes. This was at least 5-6 years ago and I am not sure if they are still around. There are acting groups, poetry groups.

Most of the computer based arts groups and classes are mostly Thai students.

As stated before most foreigners here with families are insular.

Good luck. I think that if you start a blog about dealing with a homeschool teenager in a foreign country who doesn't want to associate with the local populace, you might get some more help.

[BlackArtemis]

The only time I see, Farang, kids that age are around Central Airport Plaza and they are usually in groups and the groups are mixed. They also tend to all be from one school, Ie all Grace, CMIS, Prem, Lanna, or A.P. kids. You see sport pants or school logos sometimes.

Anyways, sorry to say this, but your daughter sounds a bit miserable and a tad xenophobic or bigoted and she is the one causing her own problems. She's going to have to get over whatever problems she has or it won't matter where she ends up, she will have a horrible 2 years till she can go off on her own.

[folium]

You're going to find significantly fewer Farang 16 year olds here compared to Bangkok. And the ones you do find will be from missionary families so will have severe mental issues after all that indoctrination.

Slight generalization to put it mildly. There are straight farang kids here in CM that are nothing to do with the missionaries, I have 3 for a start, and I could name you a whole heap more.

[chiangmaiexpat]

What is the apprx rent for a 2 bedroom house/apartment?

Close to the city approx. 10k-15k for a decent house. You may be able to find better deals if you move away from the city a little farther and/or put an extraordinary amount of time into property search or you if are really lucky.

Is cost of living cheaper a great deal then bkk or about similar?

Food and services are definitely cheaper. Manufactured goods are about the same price. Clothes and cars are slightly more expensive in Chiang Mai.

are there many farang families and is it easy to meat them?

Yes, many foreigners with families live here. There aren't as many expat hangouts as in Bangkok, though. The CNX expat crowd is -on average- older than the BKK crowd. Chiang Mai lifestyle is also a bit more quiet and reclusive.

Does anybody know about 16 yr old farang teenagers and where could we meat them?

At school?

What are the things to do there as an adult? and also as 12/16 yr olds?

Best is to get a hobby, as the entertainment offerings are somewhat limited in Chiang Mai.

How do you avoid the terrible pollutions?

Short of leaving nothern Thailand between February and April, there is no way to avoid it.

Cheers, CMX

[BigJohnnyBKK]

If you can't find structured training courses, perhaps you could locate a freelancer or owner of a design-related business, she could volunteer to intern with them in exchange for mentoring. If she's used to homeschooling and motivated, she should be able to self-teach most anything computer-related with what's available online.

Socially, she'll definitely need to loosen up on her self-mirroring criteria or be willing to put up with pretty extreme isolation there compared to BKK. At that age the likely outcome will be an obsessive romance and consequent acting out. I don't envy you this stage as a parent.

[folium]

As stated before most foreigners here with families are insular.

"Insular" in regard to what?

As in any city there are different courses for different horses. If you want the family lifestyle CM can provide if you make the effort. If you want the "sexpat" lifestyle that can also be achieved here. Does the fact that these two groups rarely intersect mean that one or the other is "insular"?

[Johpa]

My daughter enjoyed Chiang Mai so much that she decided to attend college in Chiang Mai and not in the US. Plenty of kids hanging out in the malls just as in the west. But do not homeschool! Your child needs a social network and the international schools are the place to start. You can always complement the school education when you find it lacking. There may not be quite as many "cultural" activities available as in Bangkok, but there are far more outdoor activities which leads to a far more balanced lifestyle. And pay no heed to the rabble here about the kids of missionaries. Yes, a few of within this group are as intolerable as the rabble that doth protest against them. But the families here long enough to have teenage children attending school are usually pretty well grounded and will even be tolerant of a grandchild of Shlomit. I, an atheist, have become friends with some of the longest serving missionary families in the north, and none of them have yet to take offence when I decline, but always with a smile, their inviations to their prayer meetings. And as others noted, there is a somewhat higher percentage of leuk krueng kids here (one Thai one Farang parent) who are often both bilingual (common) and bicultural (less common) and can serve as a guide into Thai culture. The real social danger are, as in Bangkok, the well educated kids of the despicable Thai Hi-Sos who are often as mean spirited as their parents. If the family is not speaking Kham Muang in the home then proceed cautiously.

[hellodolly]

My daughter enjoyed Chiang Mai so much that she decided to attend college in Chiang Mai and not in the US. Plenty of kids hanging out in the malls just as in the west. But do not homeschool! Your child needs a social network and the international schools are the place to start. You can always complement the school education when you find it lacking. There may not be quite as many "cultural" activities available as in Bangkok, but there are far more outdoor activities which leads to a far more balanced lifestyle. And pay no heed to the rabble here about the kids of missionaries. Yes, a few of within this group are as intolerable as the rabble that doth protest against them. But the families here long enough to have teenage children attending school are usually pretty well grounded and will even be tolerant of a grandchild of Shlomit. I, an atheist, have become friends with some of the longest serving missionary families in the north, and none of them have yet to take offence when I decline, but always with a smile, their inviations to their prayer meetings. And as others noted, there is a somewhat higher percentage of leuk krueng kids here (one Thai one Farang parent) who are often both bilingual (common) and bicultural (less common) and can serve as a guide into Thai culture. The real social danger are, as in Bangkok, the well educated kids of the despicable Thai Hi-Sos who are often as mean spirited as their parents. If the family is not speaking Kham Muang in the home then proceed cautiously.

I second your opinion's.

To me it sounds like the OP is not that interested in the night life scene and will in all likely hood find far more than he wants. Chiang Mai is a great place to live (except for the pollution)

Chiang Mai can be the gateway to many different things to go and see. Just what ever grabs your fancy.

[theDukes]

You must be desperate to "Ask the Experts" on Thaivisa. Some real great advice here.

Chiang Mai is much cheaper to live than Bangkok. It is cheaper to live here and very easy to find a cheap place to live. Probably one of the easiest places to find a place to live as anywhere I have ever seen.

There are 7 international schools in Chiang Mai with more than 3000 students. There are also many Thai schools that have English language programs that have many children of mixed nationalities. There are 100s of other kids that are home schooled. Lots of families around here.

Grace International, which is a christian school, probably has more families where mom and dad are foreigners. Just because a parent is a christian does not mean that their kids are indoctrinated, tortured or are in some way unbalanced. In fact the kids from Grace are just normal kids that one would expect to find in any town in the US except that they are friendlier and more polite.

Chiang Mai International is also a christian school run by the Church of Christ but it has a student population that is predominately non-christian. The kids there are also great.

Likewise Lanna International, APIS, Nakhorn Payap and Prem have great kids. Likewise probably not tortured and/or indoctrinated. Just normal kids.

I do a lot of catering functions at the schools. Everything from plays at Prem to the Model UN at Payap to the Christmas Show at CMIS. In my restaurant I see hundreds of foreign families with kids every week. The one thing that always amazes me is how great the kids are and how respectful they are. A couple of times a year we do some catering for all the teachers from the international schools and they are a great bunch as well. Dedicated to what they are doing and happy.

These kids have their own extended peer groups and kids from all the schools get to know each other and they hang out everywhere from the malls to sporting events at the schools, to dances and elsewhere around the community. This is easier in Chiang Mai because it is still a somewhat small community. Once your daughter finds and meets some kids her age she will have no problem making friends and having a good time.

As for parents, you may find some families here on Thaivisa but it might be better to involve yourself in the school that your 12 year old will go to and meet some folks there. You might also find friends for your other daughter.

The choices for adults are limited and most of the families consist of a Thai partner but there are lots and lots of families around.

Dave

[muchogra]

If you plan on living in Thailand for good, or at least for a long time, why not consider sending the kids to a good Thai school. Do some tutoring either by yourself or your mate or some tutors in English or whatever other languages.

I went to an International school in Thailand long time ago. When I went to the US I had learned no Thai at all. I have only learned Thai when I came back here some years ago. We brought one kid from the States and enrolled her in an International school. There was no Thai class here. Lucky that the kid learned by herself and is able to read some too. The other kid was borned here and knew only Thai when we brought him back to the States, now, he speaks almost no Thai.

As I reflect on myself and my wife, both tri-lingual, have kids that are barely bi-lingual. Shame on me! And you know I would do it differently if I live my life again.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It is great to see evidence of decent thinking from some great human beings (that happen to be farang) on TV, much more so than I've experienced in other areas of the site. This gives me hope that I will be able to find some in the offline world around CM.

[blossombkk]

If you plan on living in Thailand for good, or at least for a long time, why not consider sending the kids to a good Thai school. Do some tutoring either by yourself or your mate or some tutors in English or whatever other languages.

I went to an International school in Thailand long time ago. When I went to the US I had learned no Thai at all. I have only learned Thai when I came back here some years ago. We brought one kid from the States and enrolled her in an International school. There was no Thai class here. Lucky that the kid learned by herself and is able to read some too. The other kid was borned here and knew only Thai when we brought him back to the States, now, he speaks almost no Thai.

As I reflect on myself and my wife, both tri-lingual, have kids that are barely bi-lingual. Shame on me! And you know I would do it differently if I live my life again.

Thanks for the reflection. we will stay here for another two years and then go back home. i don't think thai schools will serve us now, though i think it's an excellent idea, since my younger one struggling with a very difficult learning disabilities so english by itself was hard enough. and the older one is homeschooling for a highs chool diploma back homed and has loads of material to work with.

I did want them to speak thai, but already gave up on it considering.