Thailand Seizes Tigers, Lions In Wildlife Bust

[sungod]

So the facts are now clear. The first report (of 8 March) claims “intelligence” gained from a raid last month helped police to bust Mr Y in Saraburi. But wait a moment, the busts were unrelated and according to a senior official in the second report (of 9 March), Mr Y was already well-known to the DNP, having been arrested and prosecuted for a previous wildlife offence in 2003 well before any foreign organization had dreamt up the idea of collaboration with Thailand’s finest on wildlife enforcement.

How do you conceal several hundred wild animals including internationally protected species from your neighbours and local authorities on a rural property guarded like Fort Knox without having a zoo licence? The answer is you stay very quiet, keep everybody well fed (including the animals), and otherwise wait until the police are put under pressure to make an arrest, then hope it’s not you who goes down, or that a legitimate wildlife rescue centre that runs on donations and volunteers takes the heat first. Unfortunately, like the Wheel of Fortune, after 9 years his time had come again to be checked. Perhaps some jail time (this time not suspended) might discourage him from trading?

The lesson learned here is we need to consider all the facts before accepting what we read in articles written by third parties about wildlife trade in Thailand, since writers may simply be using the local papers to place carefully crafted articles that make certain people look good, or at least justify their existence. It would be really laughable that a measure of their success could be the number of busts reported in the Thai press. Sad, but possibly very true.

To Sungod, it’s unnecessary to call other members names or insult their intelligence just because they question the facts in an article you happen to have a vested interest in (if in doubt check Forum Rules # 1 and comply, or find another forum to rant in).

Fiddler,if you go back through the posts I think you asked a question' How did a NGO know'

I answered your query both politely and factually,

You then replied in a condescending manner in an effort to look clever with cheap wit,

To which I replied in a tone similar to yours,

I have no vested interested other than I have posted I what i know, not like of the many armchair experts on here who post on what they think they know, to those who keep talking about the corruption involved with the police etc, wake up, no shit Sherlock, tell us something we don't know,

Anyway, stop crying to your mum by quoting forum rules, you kicked it off, admit and take it on the chin old boy

[Dibbler]

So the facts are now clear. The first report (of 8 March) claims “intelligence” gained from a raid last month helped police to bust Mr Y in Saraburi. But wait a moment, the busts were unrelated and according to a senior official in the second report (of 9 March), Mr Y was already well-known to the DNP, having been arrested and prosecuted for a previous wildlife offence in 2003 well before any foreign organization had dreamt up the idea of collaboration with Thailand’s finest on wildlife enforcement.

How do you conceal several hundred wild animals including internationally protected species from your neighbours and local authorities on a rural property guarded like Fort Knox without having a zoo licence? The answer is you stay very quiet, keep everybody well fed (including the animals), and otherwise wait until the police are put under pressure to make an arrest, then hope it’s not you who goes down, or that a legitimate wildlife rescue centre that runs on donations and volunteers takes the heat first. Unfortunately, like the Wheel of Fortune, after 9 years his time had come again to be checked. Perhaps some jail time (this time not suspended) might discourage him from trading?

The lesson learned here is we need to consider all the facts before accepting what we read in articles written by third parties about wildlife trade in Thailand, since writers may simply be using the local papers to place carefully crafted articles that make certain people look good, or at least justify their existence. It would be really laughable that a measure of their success could be the number of busts reported in the Thai press. Sad, but possibly very true.

To Sungod, it’s unnecessary to call other members names or insult their intelligence just because they question the facts in an article you happen to have a vested interest in (if in doubt check Forum Rules # 1 and comply, or find another forum to rant in).

Fiddler,if you go back through the posts I think you asked a question' How did a NGO know'

I answered your query both politely and factually,

You then replied in a condescending manner in an effort to look clever with cheap wit,

To which I replied in a tone similar to yours,

I have no vested interested other than I have posted I what i know, not like of the many armchair experts on here who post on what they think they know, to those who keep talking about the corruption involved with the police etc, wake up, no shit Sherlock, tell us something we don't know,

Anyway, stop crying to your mum by quoting forum rules, you kicked it off, admit and take it on the chin old boy

Thanks for responding to the last two lines of my last comment. Now do you have anything useful to say in response to the first three paragraphs?

[sungod]

No, not at all, I'll leave that to all the other experts thanks, now go away and stop annoying me.

[MILT]

Absolutely !!!! Thanks Edwin for posting this !! ... and why don't any of you here on TV seem to know about what is happening to WFFT And ENP (Elephant Nature Park ) and the super cool caring people at DNP ( Department of Natural Parks ) ... please not to be confused with the honourable people at ENP ...... You all live here and criticize everything and yet know nothing but talk and post like you are all genius' of the 21st Century and what happens in Thailand ..... Really irkes me ... IF YOU ARE NOT AN ANIMAL LOVER PLEASE SPARE ME AND OTHER ANIMAL LOVERS THE AGONY OF READING YOUR IGNORANT AND UNSYMPATHETIC CRUDE REPLIES. JUST KEEP QUIET AND MOVE ONTO ANOTHER TOPIC

The man that was arrested yesterday was very well known by DNP and police and had nothing to do with the slaughterhouse in Bangkok, as a matter of fact most species found there such as zebra and wildebeest are not even found at the Sraburi location. Mr Y has been arrested in 2003 for illegal possession of wildlife but was after being found guilty allowed to keep the animals anyhow (...).

This place also made big national news in 2004 and 2005 when it was said that people tried to steal tigers from this house and killed them with poison, two dead poisoned tigers were found in their cages. At this time no one asked for proof of ownership again (...)

Now yesterday the house gets raided again, and the owner claims to have ownership papers, says he breeds, imports and exports wildlife for zoos. He is given 3-5 days to produce the paperwork including CITES paperwork for legal imports of protected wildlife.

Now a few of my questions;

-What "intelligence" will you need to find and raid a house that has been raided twice before with lots of illegal wildlife found?

-How can someone have CITES import papers for protected wildlife while he/she does not have a zoo license?

-As this person has had wildlife registered for the last 8-9 years, why has he never been checked at all? Why suddenly now?

last but not least:

-Why is he given 3-5 days to produce paperwork while a registered wildlife rescue center is given 2 and a half hours, to take the animals away on immediate bases? Is there somehow a double standard here? Or are we witnessing some game?

Edwin Wiek

Founder

Wildlife Friends Foundation Thailand (WFFT)

I cannot comment on the WTTF as I do not know about them until they were raided. As far as Elephant Nature Park I do know all about Lek and her BS story. There is nothing honorable about Lek. I have known her for 16 years. Her base story of how Elephant Nature Park was started is not true. I can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt! Elephant nature Park is just a glorified elephant camp with a twist that brings in huge dollars. There has never been a background check on her story not one to date. She has no local support, but has managed to con the international community. The people that flock to her to be a part of her scam maybe honorable at heart but they have been mislead. Like I said I have known Lek and her family before they were ever involved with elephants. I knew her mom and know her Father and siblings. I hope the truth will come out about Elephant Nature Park. Her constant negative diatribe about elephant camps and corrupt government is now coming back to bite her. From 1996 to 2000 Elephant Nature Park was a elephant camp. That's right it was not a NGO.

Lek and her ex husband Adan Flynn parted from Leks family and took the name and the logo and create the NGO. Her base story is not true. I could go on and on and yes I can back up every word with photos and documentation. Just ask her family if Lek is telling the truth.

Here is a question? How easy could it be to buy healthy elephants and create a abuse story? Lek is fighting to save 8 elephants and has said publicly "put me in jail but don't remove my elephants" The elephants that the DNP have confiscated are in a great environment, even better than where they were. I fully support the DNP it is about time that corrupt NGO's are look at. Maybe Lek will get her wish

This discussion has gone off topic. We are discussing wildlife trade enforcement and NGOs claiming involvement in this issue. Elephant camps are an interesting point for discussion but that should be done elsewhere

Well yes and no. Elephant camps have been accused with no proof of being in the illegal elephant trade business to the point of killing wild elephants to procure the elephant calves by ENP which is a NGO.

[annabel]

Dear MLT,

You know her as well as her parents and her husband for 16 years .... and have nevertheless for 16 years continued socializing / meeting with them regardless of all their Bull Shit and the fake impressions that she has given to gain popularity and money ... Wow ... You are a real strange person cause for my part, if I had proof and knew that close genuine friends of mine were totally fake, I certainly wouldn't go on seeing them and being part of their entourage for 16 Years !! Would have ended a long time ago... And on the other hand, considering how foreign volunteers are such avid animal lovers and speak up at the least hint of BS and / or cruelty isn't it amazing that NOTHING BUT NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN MENTIONED FROM A SINGLE VOLUNTEER...?? Even now with all the BS going on with the DNP...??

I am sure she would have been exposed by any or a lot of the hundreds that go to her place for 1 -2 weeks as volunteers and I have NEVER < EVER HEARD a bad thing said about her camp and her intentions or mal intentions as you suggest for that matter .... so you are saying she is also poaching elephants....?? And all the ones that she has which are blind, or crippled or without a leg due to a mine field they stepped on, are fake and that she had that done purposely ...???

I don't know where you come from but I honestly don't even want to know .... Sounds to me like there is something very dark under your skin maybe provoked by Lek ... Brrrrr... Type of people that give me the creeps ////... Do you actually like animals ...??? I don't get that impression at all ...

[annabel]

I got it !!! You work for the DNP....!! Hell why didn't I conclude that before /// Pffffff!!

[MILT]

Dear MLT,

You know her as well as her parents and her husband for 16 years .... and have nevertheless for 16 years continued socializing / meeting with them regardless of all their Bull Shit and the fake impressions that she has given to gain popularity and money ... Wow ... You are a real strange person cause for my part, if I had proof and knew that close genuine friends of mine were totally fake, I certainly wouldn't go on seeing them and being part of their entourage for 16 Years !! Would have ended a long time ago... And on the other hand, considering how foreign volunteers are such avid animal lovers and speak up at the least hint of BS and / or cruelty isn't it amazing that NOTHING BUT NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN MENTIONED FROM A SINGLE VOLUNTEER...?? Even now with all the BS going on with the DNP...??

I am sure she would have been exposed by any or a lot of the hundreds that go to her place for 1 -2 weeks as volunteers and I have NEVER < EVER HEARD a bad thing said about her camp and her intentions or mal intentions as you suggest for that matter .... so you are saying she is also poaching elephants....?? And all the ones that she has which are blind, or crippled or without a leg due to a mine field they stepped on, are fake and that she had that done purposely ...???

I don't know where you come from but I honestly don't even want to know .... Sounds to me like there is something very dark under your skin maybe provoked by Lek ... Brrrrr... Type of people that give me the creeps ////... Do you actually like animals ...??? I don't get that impression at all ...

Settle down annabel, What's with all the anger? Did you actually read my post or read into it. I stand behind what i said. Where in my post did I say Lek was poaching elephants? When did I say that I still see Lek?.... Brrrrrr.....or that I am a part of her entourage? 1 or 2 weeks is enough time to know a person???? Since when? Most importantly I am not you and from how you come across wouldn't want to be you. You come across as loving animals which I don't doubt, but have trouble with humanity and people speaking the opposite of what you believe. You present a very weak and immature argument on Lek's behalf. I love and care for animals. I have 2 dogs and some fish and a bunch of pigeons I feed and care for everyday.

Again I have known Lek and her family who are not a part of ENP since before they were ever involved with elephants. I would go so far as to say that the only contact Lek had with elephants prior to 1996 was her very successful travel agency (Gem Travel) which brought tourist's to visit and enjoy the elephants at elephant camps. Not sure how well you actually know Lek?????? Lighten up Annabel the truth always comes out one way or another. This conspiracy theory against Lek doesn't hold water my friend. Be well Annabel

Edited March 10, 2012 by MILT

[annabel]

Dear MLT,

You know her as well as her parents and her husband for 16 years .... and have nevertheless for 16 years continued socializing / meeting with them regardless of all their Bull Shit and the fake impressions that she has given to gain popularity and money ... Wow ... You are a real strange person cause for my part, if I had proof and knew that close genuine friends of mine were totally fake, I certainly wouldn't go on seeing them and being part of their entourage for 16 Years !! Would have ended a long time ago... And on the other hand, considering how foreign volunteers are such avid animal lovers and speak up at the least hint of BS and / or cruelty isn't it amazing that NOTHING BUT NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN MENTIONED FROM A SINGLE VOLUNTEER...?? Even now with all the BS going on with the DNP...??

I am sure she would have been exposed by any or a lot of the hundreds that go to her place for 1 -2 weeks as volunteers and I have NEVER < EVER HEARD a bad thing said about her camp and her intentions or mal intentions as you suggest for that matter .... so you are saying she is also poaching elephants....?? And all the ones that she has which are blind, or crippled or without a leg due to a mine field they stepped on, are fake and that she had that done purposely ...???

I don't know where you come from but I honestly don't even want to know .... Sounds to me like there is something very dark under your skin maybe provoked by Lek ... Brrrrr... Type of people that give me the creeps ////... Do you actually like animals ...??? I don't get that impression at all ...

Settle down annabel, What's with all the anger? Did you actually read my post or read into it. I stand behind what i said. Where in my post did I say Lek was poaching elephants? When did I say that I still see Lek?.... Brrrrrr.....or that I am a part of her entourage? 1 or 2 weeks is enough time to know a person???? Since when? Most importantly I am not you and from how you come across wouldn't want to be you. You come across as loving animals which I don't doubt, but have trouble with humanity and people speaking the opposite of what you believe. You present a very weak and immature argument on Lek's behalf. I love and care for animals. I have 2 dogs and some fish and a bunch of pigeons I feed and care for everyday.

Again I have known Lek and her family who are not a part of ENP since before they were ever involved with elephants. I would go so far as to say that the only contact Lek had with elephants prior to 1996 was her very successful travel agency (Gem Travel) which brought tourist's to visit and enjoy the elephants at elephant camps. Not sure how well you actually know Lek?????? Lighten up Annabel the truth always comes out one way or another. This conspiracy theory against Lek doesn't hold water my friend. Be well Annabel

Dear MLT,

I am very well thank you ... Angry...?? You bet I am ! especially when I encounter people who shoot out statements without in depth knowledge.

To Begin with :

1... If one says "They know someone or a group of people for xxx Years.... it means that they have interacted with them and frequented them for such time ... but to say you met them for 1 -2 weeks as you are claiming now,( When did I say that I still see Lek?.... Brrrrrr.....or that I am a part of her entourage? 1 or 2 weeks is enough time to know a person????) which was probably 16 years ago is a little laughable to me and I think many other people ... And when I asked you "since when do you know them" , you couldn't even answer but instead quoted " Since when? Most importantly I am not you and from how you come across wouldn't want to be you" ... Very convincing reply !!

2....Since you also claim that " The elephants that the DNP have confiscated are in a great environment, even better than where they were" Why don't you inform yourself properly and spend a couple of hours at least to catch up on events that have been happening since Feb 12th which obviously you have not as you are so focussed on your Vendetta towards Lek ... but hey ! Never too late to enlighten oneself ... here are some links ... now go and see and tell me again how great this DNP that you are ranting and raving about and blowing whistling bells about really are.... make sure you take the time to view all the videos that show how caring and professional these corrupted officials and mostly super arrogant they are in taking away the animals in a most brutal and inhumane way .... LOOK AT ALL THE VIDEOS!!!

https://www.facebook.com/WildlifeFriendsFoundation

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dn40inDxidVY&h=8AQEmgkEcAQFF8Djs4xsFrOE-J7FK8LnL98gezgaip-ewKg

English translation

And this is what I wish would have happened to those DNP Jerks

Gna-gna-gna. That'll teach him a lesson.

www.youtube.com

I wish this could happen all the time to hunters, and it would, if the pussies would put down the guns... Its not a sport unless both people have the same I have said enough and I cannot waste any more energy for a single individual who obviously has an issue with someone ////

You also be well ...

[annabel]

Dear MLT,

You know her as well as her parents and her husband for 16 years .... and have nevertheless for 16 years continued socializing / meeting with them regardless of all their Bull Shit and the fake impressions that she has given to gain popularity and money ... Wow ... You are a real strange person cause for my part, if I had proof and knew that close genuine friends of mine were totally fake, I certainly wouldn't go on seeing them and being part of their entourage for 16 Years !! Would have ended a long time ago... And on the other hand, considering how foreign volunteers are such avid animal lovers and speak up at the least hint of BS and / or cruelty isn't it amazing that NOTHING BUT NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN MENTIONED FROM A SINGLE VOLUNTEER...?? Even now with all the BS going on with the DNP...??

I am sure she would have been exposed by any or a lot of the hundreds that go to her place for 1 -2 weeks as volunteers and I have NEVER < EVER HEARD a bad thing said about her camp and her intentions or mal intentions as you suggest for that matter .... so you are saying she is also poaching elephants....?? And all the ones that she has which are blind, or crippled or without a leg due to a mine field they stepped on, are fake and that she had that done purposely ...???

I don't know where you come from but I honestly don't even want to know .... Sounds to me like there is something very dark under your skin maybe provoked by Lek ... Brrrrr... Type of people that give me the creeps ////... Do you actually like animals ...??? I don't get that impression at all ...

Settle down annabel, What's with all the anger? Did you actually read my post or read into it. I stand behind what i said. Where in my post did I say Lek was poaching elephants? When did I say that I still see Lek?.... Brrrrrr.....or that I am a part of her entourage? 1 or 2 weeks is enough time to know a person???? Since when? Most importantly I am not you and from how you come across wouldn't want to be you. You come across as loving animals which I don't doubt, but have trouble with humanity and people speaking the opposite of what you believe. You present a very weak and immature argument on Lek's behalf. I love and care for animals. I have 2 dogs and some fish and a bunch of pigeons I feed and care for everyday.

Again I have known Lek and her family who are not a part of ENP since before they were ever involved with elephants. I would go so far as to say that the only contact Lek had with elephants prior to 1996 was her very successful travel agency (Gem Travel) which brought tourist's to visit and enjoy the elephants at elephant camps. Not sure how well you actually know Lek?????? Lighten up Annabel the truth always comes out one way or another. This conspiracy theory against Lek doesn't hold water my friend. Be well Annabel

Dear MLT,

I am very well thank you ... Angry...?? You bet I am ! especially when I encounter people who shoot out statements without in depth knowledge.

To Begin with :

1... If one says "They know someone or a group of people for xxx Years.... it means that they have interacted with them and frequented them for such time ... but to say you met them for 1 -2 weeks as you are claiming now,( When did I say that I still see Lek?.... Brrrrrr.....or that I am a part of her entourage? 1 or 2 weeks is enough time to know a person????) which was probably 16 years ago is a little laughable to me and I think many other people ... And when I asked you "since when do you know them" , you couldn't even answer but instead quoted " Since when? Most importantly I am not you and from how you come across wouldn't want to be you" ... Very convincing reply !!

2....Since you also claim that " The elephants that the DNP have confiscated are in a great environment, even better than where they were" Why don't you inform yourself properly and spend a couple of hours at least to catch up on events that have been happening since Feb 12th which obviously you have not as you are so focussed on your Vendetta towards Lek ... but hey ! Never too late to enlighten oneself ... here are some links ... now go and see and tell me again how great this DNP that you are ranting and raving about and blowing whistling bells about really are.... make sure you take the time to view all the videos that show how caring and professional these corrupted officials and mostly super arrogant they are in taking away the animals in a most brutal and inhumane way .... LOOK AT ALL THE VIDEOS!!!

https://www.facebook...iendsFoundation

http://www.facebook....L98gezgaip-ewKg

English translation

And this is what I wish would have happened to those DNP Jerks

Gna-gna-gna. That'll teach him a lesson.

www.youtube.com

I wish this could happen all the time to hunters, and it would, if the pussies would put down the guns... Its not a sport unless both people have the same I have said enough and I cannot waste any more energy for a single individual who obviously has an issue with someone ////

You also be well ...

Oooops forgot to show you the wonderful pics of the Park the DNP has the animals in //// Yes, glorious indeed ... !! Please make sure you see all the photos or better even... go there yourself !!

Gratefully yours...

PS and if the link doesn't show up here which I suspect it may not .... then just take a few more minutes and go to the https://www.facebook.com/WildlifeFriendsFoundation site and scroll down and you will see it and if you click on the nice pic you will see all the other nice pics of this wonderful environment for the wild animals they have confiscated ....

This is one of the government facilities holding some of our confiscated animals, in Ratchaburi. They claim they take very good care of the animals? Numerous supporters have visited but have been closely shadowed by the staff, and some were instructed to delete all their photographs. Seems the DNP have much to hide. There is a picture of Edwin at the gate refusing his entry.

[AleG]

Anyone knows what the ultimate end of the animals would be? Sent back to their countries of origin, kept at a government facility or given to local zoos?

So this is the second time caught for same offence, but this time much a bigger operation. The whole crew should be locked up - in their own tiger cages.

"Awww... we forgot to take the tiger out first!"

[annabel]

Yea baby! http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Furore-intensifies-over-elephant-trade-in-Thailand-30177691.html

Furore intensifies over elephant trade in Thailand - The Nationwww.nationmultimedia.com

Furore intensifies over elephant trade in Thailand The Nation Repeated government raids on respected wildlife sanctuaries have damaged Thailand's image at home and abroad.