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Using True Visions Hd Set-Top Box As Pvr With Esata Harddisk


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The True Visions magazine for March 2012 contains this page (attached) which says, if I have translated it correctly, that you can convert the new HD set-top box to a PVR by connecting it via eSATA to an external hard disk and paying THB99 per month.

The small print at the bottom both recommends and specifies as compulsory a 2.5” Seagate or Western Digital drive between 500GB and 1TB.

Have I translated correctly?

Has anyone got this working?

Are these specific drives compulsory or would a (cheaper) 3.5” eSATA HDD do the job?

Do you have to format the drive as EXT3 or does it work with NTFS? Or does it format the drive itself at first use?

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After reading uour post I tried it out with a cheap eSata Disc (Verbatim 500MB). Hit the PVR button on the remote and was asked if I wanted to format the disk..The formatting took a couple of minutes but no message of success or failure. Then wanted to record: seems I have first to 'register' with TrueVision: probably the 99 Bath you mentioned. Crucial info TrueVision 'wisely' omitted but nobody spoke of it when promoting the new HD Box.

They also show you some recommended HD brands . I would prefer they would tell me if the HD in plugged in and formatted is accepted.

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Colin, you are luckier than me as I am still waiting for the March magazine. However this info is also in the HD Box Handbook which should have come with the box, with the addition of a statement to the effect that usage of any other hard drive would invalidate the True warranty! WD do a range of this type of hard drive for a PVR and larger ones are available which I would assume would still be acceptable.

I have now phoned True twice and e-mailed them once to ask who can supply me with an approved hard drive and they don't know! Just try an electronics store they suggested, having spent the best part of two days investigating outlets in Lopburi and Saraburi, they are just not available - plenty of external hard drives for PCs but none suitable for use as a PVR file storer.

True are really peeing me off, They delivered and installed my boxes at the start of March and when I asked to be connected for PVR they explained that the software for Satellite transmission would not be available until 16/03, and I would need to purchase a hard disc for about 4,000 THB before I could use this service.

I signed up for the service in December and was offered free equipment replacement, + free months free viewing, no other info was offered until after the installation. They took away one PVR and one standard box and replaced them with two standard HD boxes - that could be converted to PVRs. This is not a like for like free replacement however you look at it and to make matters worse my DVD recorder which I have been using for nearly five years on the second box apparently cannot be connected to the HD box. Overnight I went from having the ability to record two programmes simultaneously to having no recording ability at all. If I want to watch early morning Champions League football I have to stay up most of the night!

If anyone can suggest a source for these External Hard Drives I would be very grateful. I live in Mual Lek, Saraburi but can easily drive to Korat or get the minivan up to Bangkok.

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Peter,

Sounds like this is more complicated than I was expecting - I should have known it was too good to be true. You say "They took away one PVR and one standard box" - does this mean you already had an operational PVR with an internal HDD? Like a Skybox in th UK which is my only experience of a PVR?

I have never had a PVR or requested one. True came and changed my set-top box for an HD set-top box at their instigation, PVRs were never mentioned. I did get excited when I found the PVR menus, but as the functions were all disabled, I did not investigate any further, so I never saw the section of the User Guide you refer to. I have read it now! Then, I saw the magazine page and posted on here to see if anyone has got it working before I buy an eSATA HDD.

I have never seen an external HDD with a power input socket like the one on the back of the set-top box; all the ones I have seen have a separate power supply that is plugged into the mains. Perhaps this is a feature of 2.5" HDDs (presumably designed for laptops); all the ones I have used have been 3.5".

I have Googled the three HDDs specified in the user guide, the only result I could find in Bangkok is http://www.shop4thai.../product/24359/ for the Seagate one which says "This product is obsoleted".

You have obviously looked into this in more detail than I have, do you know the minimum contract period for the PVR service? If I can have it switched on for one month for 99 baht I will try it with an old 3.5" SATA HDD and my eSATA docking station, but I am reluctant to either spend 4,000 baht on a eSATA HDD (if I could find one) or to pay for a year's PVR service which might not work.

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Peter,

Sounds like this is more complicated than I was expecting - I should have known it was too good to be true.  You say "They took away one PVR and one standard box" - does this mean you already had an operational PVR with an internal HDD?  Like a Skybox in th UK which is my only experience of a PVR?

I have never had a PVR or requested one.  True came and changed my set-top box for an HD set-top box at their instigation, PVRs were never mentioned.  I did get excited when I found the PVR menus, but as the functions were all disabled, I did not investigate any further, so I never saw the section of the User Guide you refer to.  I have read it now!  Then, I saw the magazine page and posted on here to see if anyone has got it working before I buy an eSATA HDD.

I have never seen an external HDD with a power input socket like the one on the back of the set-top box; all the ones I have seen have a separate power supply that is plugged into the mains.  Perhaps this is a feature of 2.5" HDDs (presumably designed for laptops); all the ones I have used have been 3.5".

I have Googled the three HDDs specified in the user guide, the only result I could find in Bangkok is http://www.shop4thai.../product/24359/ for the Seagate one which says "This product is obsoleted".

You have obviously looked into this in more detail than I have, do you know the minimum contract period for the PVR service?  If I can have it switched on for one month for 99 baht I will try it with an old 3.5" SATA HDD and my eSATA docking station, but I am reluctant to either spend 4,000 baht on a eSATA HDD (if I could find one) or to pay for a year's PVR service which might not work.

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Colin,

Thanks for the further info. Yes I had the original type of True PVR and in essence it was similar to the Sky+ Box. My Sky box in the UK had two internal hard drives whilst the True box had only one.

It was unreliable from before the start, the installers couldn't get it to work and unbeknown to me at the time they took it away and "repaired" it instead of replacing it with a fresh box, which I thought they were arranging. After a while it would "record" programmes, take up space on the hard disc which couldn't be played back - so you thought you had a recorded programme until you tried to view it. It would also record programmes but whilst you were playing them back they would freeze, sometimes only the picture, the sound carried on! I could find no way to replay the recording once it had "frozen".

I had many conversations with True and it became obvious that they were aware of these problems and had a few little tricks, like rebooting the PVR, that gave some relief for a short time but had no real answers. Once I was instructed to take it to their agents in Saraburi and they fiddled with it. They said it was OK but that the HD was too full. When I got it back home I checked that all my recordings were still there and then looked at HD props and it was only 52% full, I had run my Sky box at 100% and never had this type of problem.

It is my thought that one of the reasons they pushed the HD through and offered incentives was that they too were disillusioned with the original PVR.

Regarding trialling your own hard disc you would need to check with True on the period of notice that they require. I suspect the minimum that you could have is two months, when they changed the Platinum package I downgraded to Gold and I believe that I had to give just one months notice.

Western Digital would be my favoured brand as I have had good service from their external hard drives, their website gives details of the model listed by True and explains the difference between this and a HD for a PC - mainly that it is designed to run 24/7 365 days p.a.

Hope this is of some help. I must persist in tracking the HDs down. Maybe the situation has been exacerbated by the flooding as the WD factory was badly hit.

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Colin,

My quote is now posted, it has taken about 30 hours to get it on the board, I typed it am yesterday and I just couldn't post it until a few minutes ago - oh the joys of computing. Today I hav e visit my electrical goods supplier in Pak Chong and he is making big efforts to find a source for one of the recommended hard drives. I will report progress as it happens.

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Peter,

Many thanks for all the information. I nearly bought one of those PVRs but IIRC they were 16,000 baht, which was just too much for me. Your experience makes me really glad I didn't. This being Thailand and True, I don't suppose they refunded any of your money merely because it didn't work?

Keep us posted if you manage to find a disk. Another thing that seems strange is that it is a Samsung box, but they don't recomend any Samsung disks. Maybe Samsung don't make DVR style disks.

Good hunting!

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Another thing that seems strange is that it is a Samsung box, but they don't recomend any Samsung disks. Maybe Samsung don't make DVR style disks.

Good hunting!

I seriously doubt that the brand of disk matters, as long as it is eSATA

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It appears now that Truevisions is now offering for sale a 500 gig harddrive accessory for a special price of only 4,780 baht. It will give you 84 hours of high def and 340 standard. Doesn't sound like such a special price to me...this is now mentioned on the truevisions hd plus web page.

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Today I have contacted True Visions in Bangkok again. Yes, a Hard Disc is now available for the HD box for 4,700 THB, but it is only available from 2 places in Bangkok, one being True Visions HO. However I was informed that the HD was priced at 3,490 THB if you were replacing the original True PVR.

They are still advertising FREE equipment replacement but it will cost me 3,490 to replace the True equipment I returned to them!

They are going to get their local agent (Saraburi) to contact me when they have stock. I shall continue to investigate other options.

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FWIW, I am using a Seagate external eSATA drive but it's not one of the approved models. The HD settop box will ask upon insertion if you want to continue using this drive and if you answer yes then full PVR functionality is allowed. (I have subscribed to the THB99 add-on). So far so good, searching and playback is very quick and smooth.

As an aside, prior to using the Hard Drive and subscribing to the device you can plug a regular thumb drive and use it as an "ad-hoc" recorder. I was using an 8GB Sandisk drive which would allow me to record several hours of programming. The drawbacks are:

1) it's not a true PVR, you can only record what you are currently watching - useful if you halfway through a late night movie and want to go to sleep

2) the data throughput on a thumb drive is slow so HD movies may clip the sound every once in a while

Edited by CanInBKK
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I noticed a usb to eSATA conversion cable in my local computer shop,

so that will open up the disk possibilities.

A real PVR should have full timer settings and the ability to record one channel

whilst watching another, though they may have to be on the same satellite transponder.

Certainly you should be able to watch an already recorded programme, whilst recording a new one!!

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I noticed a usb to eSATA conversion cable in my local computer shop,

so that will open up the disk possibilities.

A real PVR should have full timer settings and the ability to record one channel

whilst watching another, though they may have to be on the same satellite transponder.

Certainly you should be able to watch an already recorded programme, whilst recording a new one!!

Definitely. Once I changed from using a USB thumb drive to an eSATA hard drive I can record multiple programs while watching another, record entire series automatically, even switch audio from DD to PCM during movie playback.

One thing that really impresses me with the True PVR is the speed with which you switch between recorded programming and the seamlessness of how it integrates into the whole system. Definitely worth the purchase of a hard drive!

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Hi CaninBKK,

Thanks very much for the info, exactly what I wanted to know. Could I ask a few more questions:

Does your drive have a separate power supply - I have been unable to find one with a socket that matches the outlet on the back of the box?

Do you have to leave it switched on all the time, or just switch it on before you switch on the set-top box?

What capacity drive and how long (roughly!) does it record for?

If you don't mind, about how much did it cost?

Thank you again.

Edited by ColinChapman
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Do these new HD receivers True forces us to use, have a decoder card? Maybe inside the box?

If yes, perhaps the card could be used in a different receiver. I am using now a Dreambox 8000 HD, but with the normal decoder card (no HD). True told me that all these decoder cards and receivers will be phased out during 2012. Obviously I would prefer continuing using my Dreambox, not this obsolete True solution with an outdated receiver and restricted recording capabilities.

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Do these new HD receivers True forces us to use, have a decoder card? Maybe inside the box?

Mine has a card about the size of credit card sticking out of the front of the box - is this what you are talking about? It is mostly inside the box (inserted lengthways), with about 5mm sticking out. The slot is described in the User Guide as "Card Slot - Slot for smartcard".

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Do these new HD receivers True forces us to use, have a decoder card? Maybe inside the box?

If yes, perhaps the card could be used in a different receiver. I am using now a Dreambox 8000 HD, but with the normal decoder card (no HD). True told me that all these decoder cards and receivers will be phased out during 2012. Obviously I would prefer continuing using my Dreambox, not this obsolete True solution with an outdated receiver and restricted recording capabilities.

There have been other discussions about this and the cards now seem to be tied to the True box

and will not work with 3rd party decoders, like Dreambox

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I have plugged an external Thermaltake HDD dock with esata into my HD True Box and subscribed to the 99 baht/month service and am able to use all of the PVR functions. When I first hooked up the external HDD dock it formatted the WD 500 GB drive and told me that it was not one of the approved HDDs. I ignored the message and I have been testing it for a week or so and It seems to work reasonably well but perhaps not perfectly. Occasionally during playback of a recording it will stop at a black screen for no apparent reason. This has happened on perhaps two out of two dozen recordings. The other more significant problem is that my external HDD dock never powers down and so I am a bit concerned about its life expectancy. I believe the True 500GB HDD powers off the HD True Box and so will power itself down.

Out of principle I refuse to pay the 5,000 baht for the True 500GB HDD, but my search of Pantip and various other malls for something similar came up with nothing. Given that you can no longer buy a PC or notebook with esata, this is not surprising. I have ordered on eBay for $20 an external 2.5" enclosure with esata that powers off USB. When and if it arrives I will give this a go. I am hoping that the USB power from the HD True Box will power down the HDD when the HD True Box is in sleep mode.

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Today I have contacted True Visions in Bangkok again. Yes, a Hard Disc is now available for the HD box for 4,700 THB, but it is only available from 2 places in Bangkok, one being True Visions HO. However I was informed that the HD was priced at 3,490 THB if you were replacing the original True PVR.

They are still advertising FREE equipment replacement but it will cost me 3,490 to replace the True equipment I returned to them!

They are going to get their local agent (Saraburi) to contact me when they have stock. I shall continue to investigate other options.

I thought I would do everything by the book (the TrueVisions way). Yesterday I went to one of the places they send you to in Bangkok (the Truevisions shop in Siam Square) to purchase the special advertised Western Digital eSata Hard Disk Drive to record on the PVR on their new set up box (which they brought to the house on Saturday). The people were real nice, but they didn't know what I was talking about and had no idea who Apichart Lamua was (the Head of Customer Service who wrote the letters advertising the special price for the WD HDD used for their PVR).

Anyway, with the help of the Customer Service people on the phone, they explained to the Truevisions' store manager about the special offer and the Western Digital HD drive needed. The store manager said they had this hard disk drive, but it was only for regular sale not the special price that was being offered by Truevisions. This amazed me as it was one of the two Truevision's stores they said to go to (the other is their Rama 6 HO). She then sent out for the one being offered and I purchased it.

When I got home it still wouldn't record. I called Truevision's customer service representative, who told me that he couldn't understand why I couldn't get it right because it was so easy. So much for their statement they may record these conversations to help them service us better. Anyway, after talking to several people, it was decided they would send another service man to the house. He came this evening, spent an hour at the house and found out that the WD Hard Disk Drive sold to me at the Truevision's Siam Square store was not the one needed for the PVR, although the document they gave me clearly states HD PVR. The service man said I would have to pay again for the right one.

After an uncomfortable conversation, I think he now understands (I will know tomorrow) that Truevision's sold me the wrong one and he would have to come tomorrow and swap it out for the right one. This is where it stands right now. I have emailed Khun Wichian in their customer service department this evening as he has always been super helpful. I will call Apichart Lamiua tomorrow and will update this when I have something new to report.

Edited by Old Man River
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Hi CaninBKK,

Thanks very much for the info, exactly what I wanted to know. Could I ask a few more questions:

Does your drive have a separate power supply - I have been unable to find one with a socket that matches the outlet on the back of the box?

Do you have to leave it switched on all the time, or just switch it on before you switch on the set-top box?

What capacity drive and how long (roughly!) does it record for?

If you don't mind, about how much did it cost?

Thank you again.

The drive I'm using is a Seagate Goflex ultraportable 500GB that I bought at Pantip for 3200 Baht (IIRC). Note though that this is a USB 3.0 drive which I disassembled and put into a powered SATA enclosure. The power stays on full time but I'm not really concerned about the drive life being shorted - the internal specs of the drive itself is a Seagate Momentus 5400 so the spin rate is low; even if it fails I'd expect to get couple of years of use before it does.

When the drive was plugged in fresh, the PVR told me I had 82 hours of recording time left, I assume that a 1TB drive would be at least double.

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Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to document their experiences here. I thought I should add to the confusion!

As I was worried that the 99 baht promotion expires at the end of March, I thought I would go ahead and apply for it and sort out the HDD later. My wife phoned True last Monday and verified that the the PVR functionality can be cancelled at any time, you do not have to sign up for one year or anything like that, so I figured the worst that could happen is that I waste a couple of hundred baht if I can't get it working in two months. She then asked them to go ahead and switch on the PVR functionality. The call centre operative told her that she couldn't do that herself, she would pass the request to the PVR team who would call us.

Having heard nothing by Sunday 25th, my wife phoned again. The operative said that our request for service activation had been passed to the PVR team, but that they are very busy because many customers are interested and they are working through the waiting list. My wife then asked what happens if they don't call us before 31st March - do we still get the promotional price because their records show we applied two weeks before it expired and the delay is caused by True Visions? Based on Old Man River's experience above, you can probably guess the answer? The promotion expires 31st March, if they don't call us by then, we do not get the promotion price and they can't tell us what the full price will be.

The operative also suggested that not everyone could have PVR functionality - the PVR team have to "check your port" to see if it is suitable! Can I ask if the people who have the PVR functionality working are cable or satellite customers, as I know that satellite customers have only a restricted subset of HD channels and I wonder if there are some PVR restrictions as well?

Edited by ColinChapman
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Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to document their experiences here. I thought I should add to the confusion!

As I was worried that the 99 baht promotion expires at the end of March, I thought I would go ahead and apply for it and sort out the HDD later. My wife phoned True last Monday and verified that the the PVR functionality can be cancelled at any time, you do not have to sign up for one year or anything like that, so I figured the worst that could happen is that I waste a couple of hundred baht if I can't get it working in two months. She then asked them to go ahead and switch on the PVR functionality. The call centre operative told her that she couldn't do that herself, she would pass the request to the PVR team who would call us.

Having heard nothing by Sunday 25th, my wife phoned again. The operative said that our request for service activation had been passed to the PVR team, but that they are very busy because many customers are interested and they are working through the waiting list. My wife then asked what happens if they don't call us before 31st March - do we still get the promotional price because their records show we applied two weeks before it expired and the delay is caused by True Visions? Based on Old Man River's experience above, you can probably guess the answer? The promotion expires 31st March, if they don't call us by then, we do not get the promotion price and they can't tell us what the full price will be.

The operative also suggested that not everyone could have PVR functionality - the PVR team have to "check your port" to see if it is suitable! Can I ask if the people who have the PVR functionality working are cable or satellite customers, as I know that satellite customers have only a restricted subset of HD channels and I wonder if there are some PVR restrictions as well?

This was my experience: I happened to remember about the PVR service while I was at work one morning so I called the standard 02-725-2525 number, followed the prompts for add-on services and was connected to a rep right away (no time on hold like when you call with a problem). The rep asked for my subscriber number, told me to hold for a few seconds and then came back to tell me my PVR service was ready for use. Later that day I made a quick stop at Pantip, found a suitable SATA drive and went home to try it out, within a minute of fiddling with the remote (not including the time it took to disassemble and reassemble the Hard disk enclosure) PVR service was up and running.

(I'm on satellite BTW, not by choice but because that's all my condo offers)

True has been okay in this regard but it puzzles me why they would offer us satellite users only one high-def movie channel when they could easily change the reality tv to Discovery-HD or Fox-HD (I realize there are probably royalties involved but it's not like we're paying a quarter of the price of HD on cable.

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Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to document their experiences here. I thought I should add to the confusion!

As I was worried that the 99 baht promotion expires at the end of March, I thought I would go ahead and apply for it and sort out the HDD later. My wife phoned True last Monday and verified that the the PVR functionality can be cancelled at any time, you do not have to sign up for one year or anything like that, so I figured the worst that could happen is that I waste a couple of hundred baht if I can't get it working in two months. She then asked them to go ahead and switch on the PVR functionality. The call centre operative told her that she couldn't do that herself, she would pass the request to the PVR team who would call us.

Having heard nothing by Sunday 25th, my wife phoned again. The operative said that our request for service activation had been passed to the PVR team, but that they are very busy because many customers are interested and they are working through the waiting list. My wife then asked what happens if they don't call us before 31st March - do we still get the promotional price because their records show we applied two weeks before it expired and the delay is caused by True Visions? Based on Old Man River's experience above, you can probably guess the answer? The promotion expires 31st March, if they don't call us by then, we do not get the promotion price and they can't tell us what the full price will be.

The operative also suggested that not everyone could have PVR functionality - the PVR team have to "check your port" to see if it is suitable! Can I ask if the people who have the PVR functionality working are cable or satellite customers, as I know that satellite customers have only a restricted subset of HD channels and I wonder if there are some PVR restrictions as well?

I have taken the opportunity today, while trying to get my PVR set up (not yet) to ask about the promotion for those who previously were not PVR subscribers. The deal for you is THB 99 for as long as they can foresee. However, the promotion is for the rental fee of the box. For non subscribers of the PVR it is free for 3 months with the month starting from the billing date of the first of the month. Hence, if you subscribe today, you would not pay the THB 155.15 box rental fee for the rest of this month plus the next two months. Then each month you would pay the THB 155.15 per month plus the THB 99 per month for the PVR service. For those of us who were previous PVR subscribers, we pay the THB 99 for the PVR, but we get one year free on the rental fee of the box. Hence, if I started today, I would pay THB 99 per month for 11 months and 4 days and then it would be THB 99 plus THB 155.15 thereafter.

As it relates with my attempt to get the PVR set up in my house, the Western Digital Hard Disk Drive and connections I purchased on Sunday at Digital Gateway (Siam Square) at the advertised price of THB 3,490 still doesn't work. The people are nice, but so far nothing. The service man who came today did not come with any new equipment and really didn't know why he was back as he came with no new equipment just like yesterday when he couldn't get it to work. He told me he thinks my problem is the HDD and connections I purchased from Digital Gateway, but unless he is given new equipment to try at my house he couldn't add any value without the new HDD.

I have arranged with Truevision's customer service to return to Digital Gateway in Siam Square on Thursday and trade out the HDD and connections I purchased on Sunday and see if the new equipment plus connections fixes the problem. I have 3 Premium connections in the house and have tried the HDD I purchased on Sunday on all and it doesn't work on any of them. I will revert to ThaiVisa after Thursday to see if the new HDD works.

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I have to ask since I am having problems with the PVR. What suitable eSATA drive did you buy? I am not as interested in the price as I am the model #. The WD HDD I have doesn't work.

Edited by astral
No need to quote the entire post - just choose relevant parts
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Hi Everyone,

My wife has just phoned True again (4th time) and complained about being given the runaround. They promptly said that a technician will come next Thursday, bringing the disk drive, and set it all up! No need to wait for the PVR team to check our port (she wisely didn't ask why). And no need to go into Bangkok and buy the HDD. Cost is 3,590 baht for the HDD and 1,190 baht for the eSATA case (as both items are essential, I don't know why they are not priced as a unit). I'm not sure if VAT will be added to this.

Also, we are eligible for the 99 baht promotion, because we contacted True before it expired - the exact opposite of what they told her last time.

Just for information, we live in a condo on the edge of Bangkok (just inside the Bangkok boundary) which has one large True satellite dish on the roof and the signal is then cabled to each unit as required.

I will keep you updated.

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Hi,

Just thought I'd relate my own experiences of Truevisions/HD/PVR etc.

Approx four years ago I foolishly paid truevisions around 15,000 Baht for their PVR recorder (deal was purchase only, NO rental).

It was unreliable from the start with around 10 to 20% of all programmes recorded being unplayable after sticking /freezing part way through (very annoying when it's the last episode of a series you've been following!)

I got the runaround from truevisions technitions & service personel (I won't bore you with all the details) and they wouldn't give me a refund even though I first reported the fault within the 2 week period specified for this.

Anyway, I mostly got round the problem by recording EVERYTHING twice just in case it froze up first time, ie I would record say Air Crash Investigation on Nat Geo at 10 pm and then again at 4am the next day or whenever. This method was fine apart from live football etc at 2 or 3 am as it's only shown live once! I got round this by looping the pvr boxes signal through my Panasonic dvd recorder and recoding the signal on to the Pana HDD (Note: the Pana DVD recorders are fantastic, never missed a programme recorded on these machines.... just wish you could get one with Truevisions tuner built in!)

Peter, may I ask you why it's not possible to record on to a dvd recorder from the Truevisions HD Plus box as I see it sports both composit & component outputs (along with HDMI)?

I have invested heavily in antisipation of upgrading to the HD Plus box (2 HD ready plasma telly's plus around £400 worth of HDMI cabling to carry the signals) but Truevisions seem to be giving me the runaround again. First they send me an sms informing me I can upgrade so I call them and they say I'll have to wait. This week they sent me a snail mail letter informing me again that I can upgarde so I call them and they say I'll have to wait! Seems the Chonburi agents don't have any esata HDD's in stock! Does anybody know if a HDD with USB 3 will work? I understand that USB 3 is faster than esata anyway.

One thing Truevisions have failed to mention in all their information is what about the 15,000 I had to pay for my PVR four years ago? I feel I should get a partial refund at least however I'm glad that I won't be owning the HD Plus box as that means truevisions will remain resposible for it continuing working. Thanks for all the posts regarding this topic. Bulshy.

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