Agencies

[AmyScott]

My boyfriend and I have been teaching in Thailand for 7 months now. (Following Thai Visa and finally decided to join)

We got a job through an agency and were brought to Nakorn Nayok where we work at the same school. We never signed any contract with the agency altough we did ask for it.

We were promised payment for W.P and Visa's and holidays. To this day, we haven't received anything back from them. We found out from the school that they take 7000baht every month and as far as I'm concerned its for doing nothing.

I've had countless fights with the agency and even asked the school if for the next year we can have a contract directly with them. I think the school is scared bacuse they avoid my questions and we've been told the agency is organizing the new paperwork. Paperwork... let me not even get started on that matter.

What I want to know is, what benefits do you get if you are with an agency? They haven't even provided us with insurance.

Does your agency/school pay you for the day when you have to go to immigration? Our agency minuses 1300bath for the day from our 30 000 salary.

Any opinions and advice will be appreciated.

[Scott]

You will find a lot of variation from school to school. I know of schools who pay for visa runs; most don't. Most schools organize the paperwork and take you to immigration and your pay is not deducted. Most schools provide some type of insurance--it may not be the best insurance, but you are covered for accidents and hospitalization. Some insurance policies don't cover for ordinary outpatient visits.

The school may have a contractual arrangement that does not permit them to hire you directly, however, if you leave the agency you should be able to find employment elsewhere.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[somchaismith]

Firstly, without casting any asspersions, we must ascertain who pays yours wage, one would assume that it's paids monthly.

[BlackArtemis]

Most agencies are horrible and are seen as the reason as to why wages have stayed stagnate for decades. Tell your school to either hire you without the agency at the same price they were paying the agency. This will be cheaper for them as they would not have to give you a raise 1-2k baht raise over last years rates so to say, but it would be a raise for you (the extra 7k).

If not, simply start checking out all the websites like ajarn and tesall, plenty of schools looking to hire right now without an agency and they usually like couples.

Good luck with it all.

[BlueEasySleep]

I have had the same problems Amy

[aridion]

Amy, I wouldn't work for an agency that deducted your salary when you had to go to immigration. They are screwing you.There are a lot better agencies out there.

[AmyScott]

I really feel like we are being screwed over. The agency said that the school only pays them for the days we work. We don't even get sick leave.

The school pays monthly and the agency takes a week to pay us after the end of the month. We have to call a million times to find out if we are getting paid as they have a tendancy to pay late and avoid our calls.

We did ask the school countless times if they could hire us directly or even change to a different agency but they kept on avoiding us and pretending not to understand. We are a bit 'scared' for better use of word, to leave as we only have certificates from college and no degree, so might struggle finding work elsewhere.

Today we were given all the paperwork to have our work permits and visas extended for a year. We signed nothing from the school or agnecy as I know if you leave a contract before time you have to pay in certain cases. I have a copy of a contract but it's all in Thai (what good is that to us?)

As soon as we have all the documents and work permits for the year, my boyfriend, another British teacher and I are all going to haggle the school to be paid for going on these reporting days. Its not a holiday where we are sitting at home doing stuff all. They don't seem to think of it this way. Its so unfair how foreigners are treated in this country. At least by having the paper work, they cannot breach the contract I hope and we are protected by Thai law if my research serves me correct.

We came here to teach, not for a gap year. We take our jobs seriously and yet they seem to want to screw us over where ever they can. Makes one not want to work for them.

Hopefully we will win the battle with the agency and school. I guess its a bit of an optimistic outlook in a place where we all know nothing ever happens to our benefit.

If anyone wants the agencies name, to stay far away from them, pm me

Edited March 9, 2012 by Scott
formatting

[beano2274]

I, and many people here have worked for agencies, been promised a WP and never got it, had to do the visa runs as the papers for the Non Immigrant were still being done, these are the usual excuses. Do yourself a favour and look somewhere else, do not think that the lack of a degree will hinder you, it won't.

I worked for one agency, she was paying me 40,000, and pocketing over 55,000 from the school

[Scott]

I'll go out on a limb a little bit. Working for agencies is not for everyone. I've met teachers who love it and enjoy being moved around from school to school. Agencies have worked well for people who are new to the country and not quite sure if teaching is what they want to do.

For couples and people who plan to stay around for a while, then it's probably not the best option. Stability and security are more of an issue and agencies don't always provide that.

If I were in your shoes, and the agency could get you a work permit without the degree, then I would be tempted to stick with them for one more academic year and then terminate the contract and look for independent employment. I wouldn't leave unless I had sufficient financial reserves to tide me over during the job search, especially if you want to be in the same area and neither of you have a degree.

[BlueEasySleep]

You're lucky your company got you a work permit without a degree.

I have a degree and my company still won't give me a work permit.

It's also now March 9 and I haven't been paid for February yet.

[AmyScott]

You're lucky your company got you a work permit without a degree.

I have a degree and my company still won't give me a work permit.

It's also now March 9 and I haven't been paid for February yet.

Thats shocking! It's unbelievable how things 'work' here. They only care about themselves.

If I were in your shoes, and the agency could get you a work permit without the degree, then I would be tempted to stick with them for one more academic year and then terminate the contract and look for independent employment. I wouldn't leave unless I had sufficient financial reserves to tide me over during the job search, especially if you want to be in the same area and neither of you have a degree.

We are going to stick it out for this next contract term and see how all goes. I will force them to pay us for the work permit fee whcih is 3000baht each as in their 'contract' form last semester, which we didn't sign, it says they will pay work permit up to an amount of 3750baht. So even though we haven't signed it I'm going to try and annoy themuntil they pay it.

Thank you for all the advice

[Geekfreaklover]

The school has an agreement (contract) with the agent. This contract would normally state that the school cannot hire your husband or yourself on a direct placement. Most teacher / agent contracts state the same thing. You cannot simply approach the school and have them employ you directly. Bringing up the subject with the school will only cause tension.

Finish the term and look around for other positions.

Some agents are shockingly bad. In Bangkok they will take about 60k and give the teacher about half of that. That is all they do. They will go to a school, show them a slide show and promise the earth. Once they get the contract they find the teachers and give them address of the school. This is all they do. They will not issue work permits because they are often not actually set up as companies, do not pay tax etc. Of course there are exceptions and its easy to see that some or better than others.

Work with agents by all means, but do it with your eyes wide open.

[sirchai]

You're lucky your company got you a work permit without a degree.

I have a degree and my company still won't give me a work permit.

It's also now March 9 and I haven't been paid for February yet.

Thats shocking! It's unbelievable how things 'work' here. They only care about themselves.

If I were in your shoes, and the agency could get you a work permit without the degree, then I would be tempted to stick with them for one more academic year and then terminate the contract and look for independent employment. I wouldn't leave unless I had sufficient financial reserves to tide me over during the job search, especially if you want to be in the same area and neither of you have a degree.

We are going to stick it out for this next contract term and see how all goes. I will force them to pay us for the work permit fee whcih is 3000baht each as in their 'contract' form last semester, which we didn't sign, it says they will pay work permit up to an amount of 3750baht. So even though we haven't signed it I'm going to try and annoy themuntil they pay it.

Thank you for all the advice

We got a job through an agency and were brought to Nakorn Nayok where we work at the same school. We never signed any contract with the agency altough we did ask for it.

​Please do yourself a favor. Forget the agency, look for a job working directly for a school. Once you've signed a one year contract you'll be eligible for paid holidays, ( and I mean a lot of them!), social security with full coverage, sick leave, ( regarding Thai labour laws up to 30 days) and more.........

The fact that you haven't had a work permit before could make it happen that you'll get a waiver letter from TCT (Teacher's Council of TH) even without a degree. That on the other hand would give you two years of time to upgrade your education.

You'll need the waiver letter to obtain your work permit and your visa.

I've worked for an agency that WAS okay. Agencies are making good business by using people like you. You'll never be more than a number there. Go for it, wish you both best luck................

Edited March 10, 2012 by sirchai

[BlueEasySleep]

Any advice on how to find jobs directly with schools?

I don't see them advertised on places like ajarn

[sirchai]

Any advice on how to find jobs directly with schools?

I don't see them advertised on places like ajarn

Many schools do use ajarn, it's also the best time now to send resumes. Should you be interested to work for a particular school, please spend some time, go there and speak to them in person. Good luck!

[BlackArtemis]

Both jobs that I got were by doing the legwork myself. The first time I was in country and went around with CV's. This time I simply found a list of the schools in the province I wanted to teach at via google. Then I went to their site and looked to see if they were hiring. Even if they were not hiring, I still sent in a CV. I got my interview via skype and an hour after the interview I was offered the position via e-mail.

[beano2274]

Walk in to some schools and ask. Sometimes they are looking for permanent teachers, and do not know how to go about it. Many years ago there was a page on the MoE which had job vacancies at Government schools on, but not sure if it is still there, try checking that.

[KKvampire]

Quote "Agencies are making good business by using people like you. You'll never be more than a number there"

Agencies are pretty unscrupulous in thailand Just remember they are about making money , I have seen contracts that an agency signed with a school a couple years ago, I only saw it because another agency was trying to employ me and had the contract and monthly amounts that were paid to them. What ever the teacher is paid you can be sure the agency is getting at least 100% of that or more of that amount and to make a teacher pay the work permit shows how despicable they can be,

Edited March 11, 2012 by KKvampire

[Osiris]

The school has an agreement (contract) with the agent. This contract would normally state that the school cannot hire your husband or yourself on a direct placement. Most teacher / agent contracts state the same thing. You cannot simply approach the school and have them employ you directly. Bringing up the subject with the school will only cause tension.

Finish the term and look around for other positions.

Some agents are shockingly bad. In Bangkok they will take about 60k and give the teacher about half of that. That is all they do. They will go to a school, show them a slide show and promise the earth. Once they get the contract they find the teachers and give them address of the school. This is all they do. They will not issue work permits because they are often not actually set up as companies, do not pay tax etc. Of course there are exceptions and its easy to see that some or better than others.

Work with agents by all means, but do it with your eyes wide open.

Actually, this is how it works, as I was told by someone who runs an agency.

The agencies go through a biding process for the contract with the school. When they win the contract the school is locked in. I think the school has a say in who gets the contract.

The government pays the school 800 baht per hour of teaching for a Native speaker. The school typically keeps 250-300 baht per hour for themselves, then they ask the agency for a kick-back. If the director is particularly bad and has a relationship with the agency, the agency will cheat out of all of your money. After a month or two of working, you leave with nothing. The director doesn't care because he is getting part of your salary. The agency finds a newbie and does it again.

When the agencies reputation gets so bad that they can't find teachers, they set up another company, or two and continue.

There needs to be an agency blacklist. Something only teachers have access to, so they can check out the agency before working with them.

[yourauntbob]

I really feel like we are being screwed over. The agency said that the school only pays them for the days we work. We don't even get sick leave.

The school pays monthly and the agency takes a week to pay us after the end of the month. We have to call a million times to find out if we are getting paid as they have a tendancy to pay late and avoid our calls.

We did ask the school countless times if they could hire us directly or even change to a different agency but they kept on avoiding us and pretending not to understand. We are a bit 'scared' for better use of word, to leave as we only have certificates from college and no degree, so might struggle finding work elsewhere.

Today we were given all the paperwork to have our work permits and visas extended for a year. We signed nothing from the school or agnecy as I know if you leave a contract before time you have to pay in certain cases. I have a copy of a contract but it's all in Thai (what good is that to us?)

As soon as we have all the documents and work permits for the year, my boyfriend, another British teacher and I are all going to haggle the school to be paid for going on these reporting days. Its not a holiday where we are sitting at home doing stuff all. They don't seem to think of it this way. Its so unfair how foreigners are treated in this country. At least by having the paper work, they cannot breach the contract I hope and we are protected by Thai law if my research serves me correct.

We came here to teach, not for a gap year. We take our jobs seriously and yet they seem to want to screw us over where ever they can. Makes one not want to work for them.

Hopefully we will win the battle with the agency and school. I guess its a bit of an optimistic outlook in a place where we all know nothing ever happens to our benefit.

If anyone wants the agencies name, to stay far away from them, pm me

Agencies say a lot of things, only some of it is true. There are decent agencies out there, but many are out to make money as quickly as possible with no regard for the teachers or schools. FYI, agencies need to make money, therefore they need to deduct some of it from you, same as any other type of agency (real estate, job, mortgage etc). In reality, if run properly, they add value by matching schools with teachers whom may not be able to connect without them. That being said, dont trust what they tell you and if you think they are screwing you tell it to them straight and start looking for another job.

[phuturatica]

I have found that because there are so many EFL teachers in Thailand and so many agencies propping up all over the place. It becomes quite common for them not to sort out the work permit and whatnot. After all it costs the agency money and they constantly have teachers coming and going.

I think if you're looking to stay here long-term and want more stability, you should work directly for an education establishment rather than an agency. I personally HATE my agency and I have similar problems to you. They don't do what is stated in the contract and I'm pissed that they're deducting money from my monthly salary for what seems like... nothing. However I love the school I am at and I have built up quite a rapport with the students and get on well with other staff so I'm stuck in a predicament as I can't work directly for the school for 2 years after I've left the agency according to the contract I signed.

I feel your anger and frustration!

[Eddy B]

I have found that because there are so many EFL teachers in Thailand and so many agencies propping up all over the place. It becomes quite common for them not to sort out the work permit and whatnot. After all it costs the agency money and they constantly have teachers coming and going.

I think if you're looking to stay here long-term and want more stability, you should work directly for an education establishment rather than an agency. I personally HATE my agency and I have similar problems to you. They don't do what is stated in the contract and I'm pissed that they're deducting money from my monthly salary for what seems like... nothing. However I love the school I am at and I have built up quite a rapport with the students and get on well with other staff so I'm stuck in a predicament as I can't work directly for the school for 2 years after I've left the agency according to the contract I signed.

I feel your anger and frustration!

What would happen to you if you left the agency to work full-time for the school? I think, not alot. If the school wishes to employ you on their own contract and you keep this quiet from the agency and do the switch you should be fine with getting your work permit and a full contractual visa.

[sirchai]

I have found that because there are so many EFL teachers in Thailand and so many agencies propping up all over the place. It becomes quite common for them not to sort out the work permit and whatnot. After all it costs the agency money and they constantly have teachers coming and going.

I think if you're looking to stay here long-term and want more stability, you should work directly for an education establishment rather than an agency. I personally HATE my agency and I have similar problems to you. They don't do what is stated in the contract and I'm pissed that they're deducting money from my monthly salary for what seems like... nothing. However I love the school I am at and I have built up quite a rapport with the students and get on well with other staff so I'm stuck in a predicament as I can't work directly for the school for 2 years after I've left the agency according to the contract I signed.

I feel your anger and frustration!

What would happen to you if you left the agency to work full-time for the school? I think, not alot. If the school wishes to employ you on their own contract and you keep this quiet from the agency and do the switch you should be fine with getting your work permit and a full contractual visa.

Agencies usually have a 'deal' in form of a written contract with the schools, that they're not allowed to hire people they'd sent directly. It's mostly about corrupt school directors, as they receive the most "goodies" signing a contract with an agency.

They might want continue with the agency, bur there'll be plenty of jobs available soon. This is the end, my only friend, the end...

[wayned]

Therein lies the problem. Most of the agencies have a contract with the school. There is usually a clause in the contract that stipulates that if the school hires direct any people that the agency has supplied it is an automatic continuation of the contract with the agency. And usually someone in the school is getting a kickback from the agency for continuinhg the contract.. i waorked for and agency for 9 months withh all the promises of visa and WP that never gelled. We were paid by ATM, always late. They paid us 30k/month and the school paid them 48k/month.

.

[sirchai]

Therein lies the problem. Most of the agencies have a contract with the school. There is usually a clause in the contract that stipulates that if the school hires direct any people that the agency has supplied it is an automatic continuation of the contract with the agency. And usually someone in the school is getting a kickback from the agency for continuinhg the contract.. i waorked for and agency for 9 months withh all the promises of visa and WP that never gelled. We were paid by ATM, always late. They paid us 30k/month and the school paid them 48k/month.

.

I've worked for an agency, guess a "better" one for two years. They did provide us with work permit etc, but only after we went on strike. I made 36,500 baht, got paid 10 K in October and April.

I left my school to make more money, then the agency had lost their contract, as usual. Then I decided to look for a "real" job, working directly for the school. It worked and still does fine.

I'd never ever work for an agency again. Too much BS going on. No work permit, somebody could just "hang" you.

If you don't get paid where do you take them to court, if not even being on a contract And that goes on and on and on.

Guess it's worth to travel around and look for a position where you're not just an idiot working for an idiotic agency.

[somchaismith]

Agencies, on average, take 40 percent, of the teacher's salary, which is paid from the school to the agent. It should be no problem for the agent to pay for an employee's trip to immigration, etc. Negotiation is what it's all about. There are plenty of agents about, so just threaten to walk and see how quickly you are paid. If you are a valued member of staff, that is.

[SlyAnimal]

I've heard some people rave on about how good their agency is, and other cautionary tales about agencies ripping off teachers

Personally I think that agencies have their place. They match teachers with schools, and take a cut, many are overly greedy and take advantage of new teachers who don't know how much they should be getting paid, but people agree to the deal, and so it's essentially fair. Especially as some agencies do look after their teachers, and it's a good safety harness for teachers when they first come to Thailand and want a bit of additional security.

However I don't think an agency is the best option for someone who wants to stay in Thailand long term, as you don't need that safety harness, because you know the situation and have your own contacts to assist you.

In your situation, where you're looking to teach long term, not just a 1 year OE, where the agency isn't really assisting you much and isn't even upholding their end of the bargain.....

For your situation I think you have 2 choices:

1/ Threaten to quit unless they sort it out. In fact, you could simply refuse to work until it's resolved to your satisfaction.

2/ Be very nice to everyone, finish your contract (Not that you actually have a contract, so just hand in your notice that you'll be finishing at the end of the academic year), then find a new job.

The first option might get you better working conditions. Or they might just muck you around, and because you're essentially having a dispute, you probably wouldn't exactly get a glowing reference (From either school or agency) when you look for your next job. This could potentially cause a major setback in your career.

The second option would mean that you wouldn't necessarily be happy, but only until the end of your contract, after which you can simply apply at other schools directly, and take a great reference from the school with you. Because you have your feet on the ground in Thailand already, you can look around for jobs quite easily, as there are so many schools looking for farang teachers if you just pop into their school and ask (Many of which don't actually advertise). The only tricky part for you, is that you want a placement for both of you, which makes it a little bit more challenging than finding a job just for one of you (But you shouldn't have any problems regardless).

[utalkin2me]

Agencies a are a good tool if, and only if, you are looking for a good job and need to kinda propel yourself forward. If you use the right agency, you can get into a school you may not have been able to normally, one that will look good on a CV. Don't even think of letting an agency employ you if it isn't under those circumstances. And if you do work for them, half of your work time should be spent on ajarn looking for a better job.

[gk10002000]

I am making a bit of a generalization, but Thais are usually reluctant to get involved in 3rd party disputes. A lot of smiles, but not much interaction unless it really benefits them. Lesson learned obviously to get a contract next time, even if it may be hard to enforce. And of course I am sure the agency made glowing promises up front.

[culicine]

You're lucky your company got you a work permit without a degree.

I have a degree and my company still won't give me a work permit.

It's also now March 9 and I haven't been paid for February yet.

Thats shocking! It's unbelievable how things 'work' here. They only care about themselves.

If I were in your shoes, and the agency could get you a work permit without the degree, then I would be tempted to stick with them for one more academic year and then terminate the contract and look for independent employment. I wouldn't leave unless I had sufficient financial reserves to tide me over during the job search, especially if you want to be in the same area and neither of you have a degree.

We are going to stick it out for this next contract term and see how all goes. I will force them to pay us for the work permit fee whcih is 3000baht each as in their 'contract' form last semester, which we didn't sign, it says they will pay work permit up to an amount of 3750baht. So even though we haven't signed it I'm going to try and annoy themuntil they pay it.

Thank you for all the advice

We got a job through an agency and were brought to Nakorn Nayok where we work at the same school. We never signed any contract with the agency altough we did ask for it.

​Please do yourself a favor. Forget the agency, look for a job working directly for a school. Once you've signed a one year contract you'll be eligible for paid holidays, ( and I mean a lot of them!), social security with full coverage, sick leave, ( regarding Thai labour laws up to 30 days) and more.........

The fact that you haven't had a work permit before could make it happen that you'll get a waiver letter from TCT (Teacher's Council of TH) even without a degree. That on the other hand would give you two years of time to upgrade your education.

You'll need the waiver letter to obtain your work permit and your visa.

I've worked for an agency that WAS okay. Agencies are making good business by using people like you. You'll never be more than a number there. Go for it, wish you both best luck................

hehe...don't get too carried away there. We just get 6 days sick leave a year (I've never used them all), but I doubt schools would give the 30 days as stated in law (for government school). Unless a teacher had a very good reason, they shouldn'tbe having off 30 days a year. If my wife took off that number of days, as a civil servant, should would not get her yearly raises.

We have agency teachers at my school, and also long term teacher hired directly. I'm not sure if they pay for their workpermit, but I need to pay, as do the other teachers. Often we have someone going for us to do the 90 day reports; if they are not available, I go myself.

If they OP wishes to stay here more than a year, they need to finish up their contract and seek employment by themselves. Avoid an agency at all costs; they take a lot of money and give virtually nothing. Schools use agencies because they have a constant supply of teachers - it's not so easy to find good long timers here as they are usually settled into well paying jobs and have houses/family here. Yet the school still need to pay, say 50K a month, while the teacher gets 35K or so. There's no real financial incentive to the school to use an agency.