One Killed, 10 Injured In Bangkok Hotel Fire

[bbradsby]

and quoting an unnamed source that uses a non-American English term for "Fire Department." So I question the applicability of your quote to US hotels.

http://www.eurosprin...nglish&Itemid=6

Apology accepted

your proposed link doesn't list IT's sources, but via vague reference... did you just gin it up?

Here's one: http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs036.htm "In 2008, 64,300 establishments provided accommodations to suit many different needs and budgets [in the USA]." Let's see, with 11 deaths per year over 64,300 hotels &motels, one is in more danger by reading your posts.

You suggested I was making it up the information..and I gave you the source, so why the insults ?

per your orignal comments...."Any 3-Star and above hotel in the US, and I've seen lots, are ship-shape, due to professional management and - not least - a real set of architectural drawings to US standards, a real plan check process by public agencies, real construction site qa/qc, and real Fire Dept annual inspections"

so inspite of all you mention as being required and per your quoted link...11 deaths still occured in hotels in the US !!!.

So back to my original question,we can conclude it appears hotel's in the Land "O" free do burst into flames on ocassion and people do die.

What ever the eventual conclusion as to the cause of the fire at the Grand Park Avenue it is still a tragic accident which could have occured anywhere in the world including the good ole USA.

Your original question shows you're still clueless as to what I actually wrote in my original post. And, I'm a little busy, so if you'll excuse me...

[pmarlin]

often stay at the 27 hotel at 350 THB per night which is just next door

(good to give it a plug -

excellent hotel, clean, simple, hot water, aircon, tv and nice people)

out of curiosity once had breakfast at the Grand Mercure Park Avenue Hotel on Soi 22

it cost 500 THB and was nothing special. in fact not a very good breakfast

could have bought something much better and cheaper at the 7/11 opposite

accross the soi and 100 meters up that soi isn't really nextdoor.

[Soutpeel]

Your original question shows you're still clueless as to what I actually wrote in my original post. And, I'm a little busy, so if you'll excuse me...

More insults how original.... ......... .....go and have a big bottle of Chang and chill out old chap

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

An aside, most US 3+ Star Hotel fire calls are false alarms but because the US Code requires the alarm system to be monitored by the Fire Department ("brigade" ), they show up in about five minutes - or less - ready for battle.

So based on this....hotel's in Land "O" free do actually burst into flames then on ocassion? they must do if the alarms are monitored by the fire brigade woops sorry Fire Department....if they didnt there wouldnt be a need to monitor the alarms then

Just trying to follow your argument: Are you really trying to make a case that the state of fire and life safety in Bangkok high rise buildings is equal to or better than what you'd find in a typical large U.S. city???

I hope not...because that's surely an argument you'd lose. Certainly, no place is immune from fires. And even the best fire protection systems in a building won't prevent someone from falling asleep with cigarettes in a bed or any number of other things that can cause a fire.

But the state of official indifference, regulatory ineptitude and probably the potential for graft is surely vastly greater here than you'd find in large U.S. cities.

I worked with various Fire Departments in California for many years, and the fire authorities there have no hesitation in closing down places they consider unsafe or laying down the law on required fire systems in buildings.

They also don't stand around outside a burning office building because they can't contact the owner to gain access via the building's card key entry system.

And they don't sit stuck in un-moving traffic because the drivers in front of their fire trucks can't or won't be bothered to even try to get out of the way so they can actually reach the building that's on fire before more people die or are injured.

[nevcross]

I am a long term resident of soi 22 and user of (the former) Mercure, (I am advised it has recently been sold, indeed the name Mercure has been removed from signs at the hotel), many family and friends have stayed there while visiting me so it is with dismay that I watch events unfurl over the last 24 hours, particularly that the fire has clained life(rip).

I post now to raise the related point of the continued over development of the lower/mid Sukhumvit area. Soi 22 is a narrow through road between Sukhumvit and Rama 4 it thus has a great deal of through traffic, the street is home to several very big hotels-the Imperial, the Regencyand the recently opened Citrus, a huge Holiday Inn is at an advanced stage of construction on the Sukhumvit corner. There are also 2 big schools, the traffic around the start and end of the school day is particularly heavy.......yet developers continue to be given permission to launch massive new condo construction projects-each with the guarantee of parking-ie bringing more cars to the area. Last night Iocal traffic congestion influenced-of course- the arrival of the emergency services. The emergency services ordered the clearing of a coach park next to the Mercure, this took much time, negotiating big busses out of the car park into the narrow soi, time which could have been used to launch an earlier response to the emergency situation. The second, related point is that the new blocks are in most cases being really crammed in together, a new building at the top of soi 20 has literally just feet between it and its neighbours-what if there is a fire there? the brigade just could not get anywhere near.This is being repeated time and time again in this area and I am sure beyond. I have been here a long time so I know how and why it happens but I am sure that it is wrong and fear it will contribute to further loss in the seemingly inevitable emergency situations which arise in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The hotel fire was the lead item on Friday night's Channel 3 TV news...and they had a long group interview with some official guy on the fire...

I couldn't understand it all...but I'm pretty clear I heard him say in Thai.... sprinklers mai mee (no have). That's what I had initially suspected, and even more so once account of how the death and injuries occurred.

Yet more loss of life and injuries that likely could have been prevented or minimized if the building had modern fire and life safety systems. Ditto for the structural damage to the FICO building the other day.

[nocturn]

Hhhmmmm that's 2 hotel/hi-rise fires in about 1 block,, in about less than 1 week,,,, hhhmmmm,,,, is someone trying to buy up those blocks?,,,, odd in a city this size,, they are so close, in area, and time I think,,,

1 block asoke and 22? ever been to bangkok?

[Nisa]

Tragic fires occur in commercial buildings and hotels in all parts of the world but obviously more so in less developed and poorer nations. Using simple logic should allow people to understand "less developed" means they are actually "less developed" in most areas including public safety, building standards and enforcement. It makes no sense to come off with a superior attitude and act as though there should be an expectation that standards, technologies, law enforcement, safety and so on in poorer and less developed nations should match those of richer and more developed nations.

Thailand is a country rapidly developing and continues to rapidly move forward on almost all measurable fronts when it comes to becoming a fully developed nation. However, it is a process that takes considerable time and effort and great balancing act when it comes to priorities. No country every has and ever will modernize overnight.

This is a tragic incident and will lead to even more safety measures and enforcement being put into effect but sadly, more tragedies will need to occur (just like almost any place else) before things can be considered safe to reasonable certainty.

Condolences to all those effected by this incident.

[gundagai]

again, condolences to the dead and injured, we can all rave on about less than ideal fire escapes , inadequate fire supression measures and general lack of safety training , We create the problem ourselves by searching out 500- 1000 baht p/night rooms, how many times do you say to yourself, "i dont know how they can do it for that price, " this is how they can, until they have a bit of a fire,

[swillowbee]

Tragic fires occur in commercial buildings and hotels in all parts of the world but obviously more so in less developed and poorer nations. Using simple logic should allow people to understand "less developed" means they are actually "less developed" in most areas including public safety, building standards and enforcement. It makes no sense to come off with a superior attitude and act as though there should be an expectation that standards, technologies, law enforcement, safety and so on in poorer and less developed nations should match those of richer and more developed nations.

Thailand is a country rapidly developing and continues to rapidly move forward on almost all measurable fronts when it comes to becoming a fully developed nation. However, it is a process that takes considerable time and effort and great balancing act when it comes to priorities. No country every has and ever will modernize overnight.

This is a tragic incident and will lead to even more safety measures and enforcement being put into effect but sadly, more tragedies will need to occur (just like almost any place else) before things can be considered safe to reasonable certainty.

Condolences to all those effected by this incident.

Today's grand and insincere declarations by the highly respected Royal Thai [fill in the blank], about city-wide crack downs on Thailand's increasingly notorious fire traps are the very same hipocritical pronouncements made by the very same respected Royal Thai [fill in the blank] after the FICO highrise fire last week ... and, the Le Raffine Condo highrise fire last year .. and, the world infamous Santika Night Club incineration a couple of years ... and, the Baiyoke Tower highrise (the tallest building in Thailand) fire a few years ago.

I don't really care if Thai apologists here will forgive me, or not, but the reality is that there simply are no fire inspections, or fire code enforcement in Thailand. Consequently, Thailand has no fire codes.

Nisa decries Thailand's poorer and developing nation status as an excuse ... (ah, mai pen rai, mai pen rai). Unacceptable! This is not about some Thai shop owner innocently miscounting small change. People died.

Creating and enforcing minimum human standards of behavior is not about money (unless, of course, you are corrupt) ... it is about human values, and decisions based on those values.

Any way you try to malign the arguement, the bottom line is that:

(1) Legal fire codes are in effect;

(2) The building owner has a legal responsibility to conform to those codes; and,

(3) Respected Royal Thai [fill in the blank] authorities have a legal responsibility to enforce those fire codes.

None of them chose to do so ... their choices not to do so were behaviorial decisions ... not a lack of technology, knowledge, or money.

And people died. Officials of the respected Royal Thai [fill in the blank] and the building owner all share a debt of responsibility for those deaths. Please spare me the grief about Thailand's "developing nation" status. On this, I have no sympathy for Thais.

Unfortunately, Thai greed is now more powerful than the Thai Buddha ... it's about your human values!

Edited March 10, 2012 by swillowbee

[mrdome]

I'd say:

- Don't stay in high rises or at least not above the 5th floor

- When you flee upwards from a fire keep in mind that smoke also rises up and that nobody will be able to reach you until after the fire's been put out.

- During most hotel fires, it's actually best to stay inside your room and prevent smoke from entering. Most people die in the hall ways after they were overcome by the toxic smoke.

- Learn the escape routes from your room.

[HereIAm]

The negative comments regarding safety standards of Bangkok hotels seem misplaced. If you take a calm look at the fact that there are hundreds upon several hundreds of hotels, from 1-star to 7-star standard, operating in Bangkok over several decades, how many have actually caught fire ? Does one accidental fire (wonder when the last one was ?) deserve so many carping comments from trigger-happy experts ? Bangkok hotels remain among the safest in the world.