Router Or Router/Modem?

[welo]

I need to upgrade a friend's router due to stability problems with the WLAN/router part, and I wonder if I should get him a router with ADSL2+ modem built-in, or keep the router provided by the ISP as a modem (bridge mode).

The ISP is TRUE, the router/modem is a Billion Wireless-N - it's not the typical home user router that I've seen so far, but looks like a tit more powerful device (he has a small office for maybe 5-10 PCs). Still, it doesn't seem to be very stable.

I've heard that sometimes ISPs will customize the firmware in order to work better with their equipment (on ADSL level).

Does anybody know more?

[Royk]

A router+medem is slightly more expensive than a seperate router. I've been using Dlink, Linksys, Zyxel, SMC, Level One router+modem units with True and have no problems. I also have the supplied Billion modem but I don't use it anymore. In my case, it was a bit unstable when used with multiple machines.

[welo]

The price difference is about 500B, and not really a concern.

Good to hear about your positive experience with different modems.

I guess in most setups it shouldn't be a problem, but I've remember reading that in rare cases where the line is problematic some modems achieve better results than others. I guess I should check the line quality at my friend's office.

Still hoping for feedback from others, just to be sure.

[lovetotravel]

I'm no expert, but was told by a fairly knowledgeable guy back in the US at a computer store that it's best to get your router or router/modem on your own. You have a better selection and can also acquire a higher quality one if desired. I did this and got one with an extended range. Works fantastic.

[negreanu]

The best Routers such as Cisco E4200 Apple airport extreme etc. usually do not have a modem. But u can use any 1 port modem or 1 port Router in bridge mode (700thb) connected to it.

The link sys E4200 is an awesome router but pricey.

[lomatopo]

I prefer an integrated device as it is easier to manage and only requires one power connection.

Can you expand on, "I need to upgrade a friend's router due to stability problems with the WLAN/router part", re: instability? You may be able to diagnose and correct the problem? Or True Online may opt to replace the unit if it is faulty? IME, when the WiFi functionality fails, it fails completely. Instability with WiFi may be a channel issue, or related to interference, but obviously not enough information to even hazard a guess.

If you feel like the unit is faulty and must be replaced with a purchased unit then maybe just try a 1,500 baht unit like the TP-Link 8901G or D-Link 2730? http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5117799

Edited March 11, 2012 by lomatopo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My sense would be that while DSL modem technology is pretty much static, that router technology and firmware features are always changing and hopefully advancing.

I prefer to keep my ISP issued modem, and then use and choose my own routers to fit my needs, and upgrade them myself as the technology advances and warrants...choosing hopefully better router technology than anything my ISP is handing out for free.

[negreanu]

Just put your existing router into bridge mode use it as a modem and buy a better quality router for wlan/routing. The dual band routers with fast processors such as the 2 I mentioned above. Really do kick the ISP issued crap to the wall.

Edited March 11, 2012 by negreanu

[Pib]

I've had a ZyXel ADSL modem (issued by TOT), 2 Billion ADSL modems (issued by TOT and JINET), a Cisco DOCSIS combo modem & WIFI router (issued by True), and a Thomson DODCIS combo modem & Wifi router (issued by True) along with my own U.S. Robotics and Linksys Wifi routers. For me they all worked fine since I had a good physical ADSL line or good cable/DOCSIS internet line, but I have done some ISP or ISP plan jumping around to get a faster/cheaper plan which ended-up letting me experience above mentioned ISP-issued modems/routers. Between you, me and the fence post I think most internet modem/router problems are bad physical line connections and/or laptop Wifi drivers versus problems with the modem/router. Please note I said "most" not all. Seems a lot of the grips about some True ADSL modems is supposedly theTrue firmware periodically causes landing on the True home page when you didn't ask to go there.

Personally, since my home internet needs are basic in that I have two laptops connecting via Wifi and a couple of devices hanging on two of the router ethernet outputs I would only now go with the ISP combo modem/Wifi router since it's usually free or at a reduced cost compared to retail, if the modem/router has problems you get it replaced free by the ISP (I've done this with TOT after a lightning strike and once with True due to a firmware change issue)...and as mentioned in the first paragraph the various modems/routers I've had by different manufacturers have worked fine unless something like lightning got ahold of them...rainy season is coming up. Even the Wifi coverage in my two story home has been just fine with the ISP-provided Wifi modem/router (all of which have been 54G Wifi models versus N models) which is located upstairs, with one laptop downstairs and one laptop upstairs. And I can still tinker with the ISP modem/router settings to my hearts desire.

No, I thiink I'm pretty much done with buying my own routers. Let me knock-on-wood (my head) before saying this, but so far the ISP-provided modems/routers have worked just fine for me.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Pib

[welo]

Thanks for all the feedback! You are awesome!

The problem with the Billion router at my friend's place was that it didn't allow two different PCs to connect via WiFi. After a router restart both these PCs connected fine. For me this is a typical sign of firmware instability.

That day I had disabled the channel bonding mode for wireless-N (20/40Mhz) because it had caused troubles with yet another PC. However, from what I've read on the internet this is not uncommon and I don't blame it on the router (alone). The problem that was solved after restarting I DO blame on the router though.

I am not sure yet if I will recommend my friend to dump the Billion modem. If the firmware supports it I could use it either as a modem only (bridge mode) or as an access-point only.

I guess it should work stable as a modem, and depending on which part of the firmware causes the instabilities it might also work as a AP only. I assume that most often it is the router part (connection handling, firewall, maybe plus a weak CPU) that causes issues.

That is something that I'll have to test out I guess.

However, whether I keep the Billion as a modem really depends on my original question - whether ISP-specific firmware in modems yield better results than what a stock firmware can achieve.

I remember reading people talking (not necessarily related to Thailand ISPs though) about that some modems yield better results on troublesome lines (with a lot of noise) than others. And I always wondered why TRUE actually bothers to provide a custom firmware.

Otherwise I share lomatopo's view and I would get one, stable router/modem - just because it is slightly more convenient.

Maybe I could get TRUE to replace the billion with a Zyxel. However, I dislike that they all come with their customized firmware that is never ever being updated (and is locked to upgrade with stock firmware).

At home I still go with my TRUE Zyxel and this model actually allows to disable that stupid landing page feature, so I am happy. And I don't do gaming or torrents anymore which require multiple simultaneous connections and often caused routers to crap out.

welo

[lomatopo]

However, whether I keep the Billion as a modem really depends on my original question - whether ISP-specific firmware in modems yield better results than what a stock firmware can achieve.

As it applies to the DSL situation here in Thailand, I would say no; an ISP-supplied modem/router will not perform better than one you might source yourself.

I think you need to narrow down the possible issue(s) and then address that (or those). You've mentioned "WiFi instability", and then further mentioned a gaggle of other problems. Making the leap from having issues connecting PCs via WiFi to firmware instability seems like a stretch, unless this is a documented issue with that specific model. There are so many security-related connectivity issues I have run into: AES or TKIP or both being one of the more challenging to trouble-shoot. I always turn off all WiFi security just to verify connectivity, then start to re-enable that, first on the AP then on any devices. Maybe just swap in a known good working unit, after which time you might be able to make a diagnosis or disposition on the Billion unit?

Edited March 12, 2012 by lomatopo

[welo]

As it applies to the DSL situation here in Thailand, I would say no; an ISP-supplied modem/router will not perform better than one you might source yourself.

OK, one less reason to keep the Billion!

However, I guess I have to apologize to Billion. I actually confused this brand with another one TRUE used to use: 'nlink'. My experience with the latter was subliminal.

Talking about Billion, they do have a proper website and also offer firmware upgrades. Not too sure what to think about them. As to my knowledge they are *not* one of the better-known companies - for instance, checking the openWRT website, I couldn't find an entry for them neither in the supported nor in the unsupported section.

Also, they offer firmware upgrades but don't even provide a changelog what they fixed. Sloppy.

I think you need to narrow down the possible issue(s) and then address that (or those). You've mentioned "WiFi instability", and then further mentioned a gaggle of other problems. Making the leap from having issues connecting PCs via WiFi to firmware instability seems like a stretch, unless this is a documented issue with that specific model. There are so many security-related connectivity issues I have run into: AES or TKIP or both being one of the more challenging to trouble-shoot. I always turn off all WiFi security just to verify connectivity, then start to re-enable that, first on the AP then on any devices. Maybe just swap in a known good working unit, after which time you might be able to make a diagnosis or disposition on the Billion unit?

Well, I am quite a bit computer-savvy, and the fact that I had two laptops failing to connect via WiFi until I restarted the router unit, *IS* reason enough for me to worry about the robustness of the router firmware.

My friend reported of general instabilities, but the truth is that - just like you said - it might be a myriad of different problems. TRUE's routing/proxy problems, general service instabilities, WiFi range problems, etc.

The weird crap out, though, that I could experience myself might be reason enough to dump that router.

I am thinking about getting a model that is supported by openWrt. As I just realized, this would have to be a router only device since I think router/modem devices are not supported.

I like both TP-Link and D-Link, they are cheap and usually of good-enough quality.

@negreanu

Linksys E4200 is too pricey though!

[negreanu]

@negreanu

Linksys E4200 is too pricey though!

Yeh thats the problem. However I reckon it's still probably in the top 3 routers available.

[astral]

When you do buy, make sure the wireless side is N, not the older G system.