Expat Teenagers In Phuket

[fiddlehead]

I can safely say my kids will have a better education than I had. They will have far more knowledge of the world and be far better travelled than I ever was, and they will have had a far more interesting diverse enjoyable childhood than I ever did, and my childhood was nice and normal.

Boy, that paragraph sure points out a lot to me.

I too had a pretty normal upbringing although I had 7 brothers and sisters. So, no money for education after high school, no traveling outside of our state, not too many frills in my young life.

Somehow I made it through those teenage years although looking back, I shudder to think my kid is going to do the same: drinking, partying, sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

Luckily I did get the travel bug and discovered Asia and other great places.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that although my boy is only 6, I am already training him to run my 2 businesses. Math, computer, marketing skills, English language skills (written, speaking and vocabulary, all very important).

He also already speaks 3 languages fluently (OK one of them is Lao and probably won't mean much in the long run) Plus we are having him tutored in Chinese and he is friends with some Russians, French and Germans.

Don't know how much of that he's picking up but, I know this: It's a lot more than I was picking up when I was his age.

Plenty of opportunity here, especially in the tourist industry, real estate industry, construction industry, and quite the plethora of computer experts and jobs around too.

Musicians? OK, I'm not from LA or New Orleans or Nashville but, I find a much higher level of musicians here than where I come from.

In the past week, I've talked to or heard muso's from: Brazil, Switzerland, England, Germany, Thailand, as well as the states.

.

Yes, I could go back, but, after weighing the differences, I'll take my chances here.

[HongKongPhooey]

So in reality if this was the course they wanted then you would really have to return to the UK to live when they are around 15yrs old, probably not worth the disruption of uprooting them from school and resettling all over again.

Are there any other options ? I can't think of any but would be interested to hear what others think.

I hadn't looked in to the costs of University so didn't know there was a vast difference in price. Does that definitely refer to British citizens as well or just foreign students?

I would agree 100% that taking them from one country to the other at 15 should be avoided if possible. Not to say it would be the end of the world but certainly not ideal.

[NamKangMan]

HKP, I would be interested to know what you think their employment opportunities will be like, in Thailand, near mum and dad, without a Western uni degree? The trades (hair dresser - electrician etc) pay nothing, as you know. Don't quote me on this, but I think many countries do not recognise trades certificates from Thailand. So, for example, a Thai electrician can not go to the UK and work as an electrician because the UK know he has not been properly trained. Even with a western degree, like I posted earlier, the good jobs go to members of the 10 families who own/run Phuket.

I agree with points you have said in your post, BUT, it's not just about being good parents while they are young, in the family home, it's also about the level of education you place them in and the environment in which they grow up in. These are a little out of your control on Phuket, due to availablity and the touristic nature of the island. In the west, it would be governed by your financial position as to what suburb you live in and what school you can afford to send your kids to.

Are you looking 18 years down the track? Do you want your son/daughter earning 8000 baht a month? A western degree would have to be a must, in order to get a decent job here. (here, meaning Thailand)

It really is a conflict of intrests. On one hand, we have foreigners who have worked hard for many years and retired young, or old, who want to live by the beach on Phuket - on the other hand, children come along and the best education, medical, sport, entertainment and safe enviroment for them is not on Phuket. There in, lays the dilema. Mum and Dad's happiness, versus what's truly best for the kids.

I have already addressed your very last line. What's truly best for your kids has to always come before mum and dads happiness. For the sake of this argument I think we all need to take that as a given. The very topic we are discussing is whether or not we can do the right thing by our kids while living in Phuket so bringing bad parents in to the topic as many have is pointless. We are starting the discussion from the point where wanting to do what's best for our kids is a given.

I think you are missing the point some what when you talk about work opportunities in Thailand. With a decent education, the ability to further your education or training in Europe if and when the need arises then why would their work opportunities be limited to Thailand? I can safely say my kids will have a better education than I had. They will have far more knowledge of the world and be far better travelled than I ever was, and they will have had a far more interesting diverse enjoyable childhood than I ever did, and my childhood was nice and normal.

As somebody else said, people are pointing out the potential pit falls of living here but not pointing out any great advantages of living in the UK for example. I have said I believe the International schools in Thailand are better than the average free school in the UK, so that's not an argument. You have to pay for your kids to go to Uni these days so that remains the same no matter where you are based.

I think you are looking at the worst case scenario in Phuket and comparing it to the best case scenario in the West. Even the best case scenario in the West just isn't that great any more. If the Uni education was free in the UK for example and by living in Phuket I would be unable to support my kids through Uni in the West, THEN you would have a logical argument, but neither is the case, so I'm afraid I don't think you do. If I have to move back to the UK when my kids want to go to Uni then so be it. Baring in mind lots of kids go off and study abroad on their own anyway and with family members in the UK then the options are plenty. I think you are finding problems where they don't exist. I'm looking to assess the problems that do exist like crime and violence and their safety while they are teenagers. That's the only thing that concerns me.

What will become of your kids if they do not go to a western uni???? Maybe they do not want a tertiary education. That's fine. Maybe your son wants to be an electrician, for example. That pays well in the UK, but over here, it's 300 baht a day. Is that what you want for your children in Thailand, 300 baht a day? No, so, he goes to the UK to be an electrician, and earns good money, problem solved. However, you are only seeing him on holidays, for the rest of your days.

Do you understand where I am coming from?

[HongKongPhooey]

He also already speaks 3 languages fluently (OK one of them is Lao and probably won't mean much in the long run) Plus we are having him tutored in Chinese and he is friends with some Russians, French and Germans.

Don't know how much of that he's picking up but, I know this: It's a lot more than I was picking up when I was his age.

You compare that life experience to the average kid in the UK and there's no comparison. Being mixed race and experiencing two different cultures from the day you are born, coupled with the amount of travelling and the mixing with people from all over the world, then it surprise me that some people can't see what fantastic prospects our kids can have if we go about things in the right way.

Most of my best mates in the UK are living in the same villages/towns they grew up in, and their kids go to the same school as they did and will probably grow up and do the same. The advantages of being an 'International' child are huge in my opinion. It's just a case of avoiding the many potential pitfalls along the way.

[HongKongPhooey]

What will become of your kids if they do not go to a western uni???? Maybe they do not want a tertiary education. That's fine. Maybe your son wants to be an electrician, for example. That pays well in the UK, but over here, it's 300 baht a day. Is that what you want for your children in Thailand, 300 baht a day? No, so, he goes to the UK to be an electrician, and earns good money, problem solved. However, you are only seeing him on holidays, for the rest of your days.

Do you understand where I am coming from?

I can't say that I do really mate.

Who really needs to worry about things like that now? If my kids don't want to go to Uni then they don't. If they want to be a sparky then I will do everything I can too make it happen for them. Knowing several sparkies in the UK already wouldn't hurt I'm sure. If at the time I decide I don't want to be on the other side of the world to my grown up children then I have the option to move back to the UK as well.

Perhaps my kids will end up living in Australia and I'll end up in Mongolia, who can possible know now where we'll be in 15 years time? Again, you're making problems where there aren't any. You're implying that these problems are out of our hands and that we need to be controlled by them when the truth is they are problems that are very easily remedied and aren't even relevant for another 10 or 15 years.

[thaiIand]

HKP, you have openly stated. "I love Phuket" - but will your kids love Phuket? Will you ask them? If they do not like Phuket, what will you do - will you consider moving? If you see them hanging around with the wrong crowd, getting bad grades etc, will you watch them go down hill, just because YOU love Phuket?

The above section of your post is the nail on the head for me. The rest I believe is speculation, guess work, with a lot of worst case scenarios thrown in for good measure.

The bottom line for me is if you are good parents and 100% have your kids best interests as top priority then things will always work out OK.

The question is, if there's a hint that things aren't working out best for your kids are you prepared to jump on the next plane back to the UK, regardless of how much you would rather be in Phuket and regardless of how unhappy it will make you and your wife, and how much worse your life would be. If the answer to that question is yes, (which it has to be) then there shouldn't be a problem.

The kind of parents you are is crucial, and at the risk of sounding arrogant I'm not worried about our abilities in that respect.

If my kids wanted to further their education (I wouldn't try and force them, I'm not one of those people that believe a degree is the be-all and end-all) then the ability to support them financially in Europe (the same as parents would try to do if they were living there anyway) is a must. As is a constant connection with the other half of where they come from.

I don't buy all the lack of culture and music argument, because I always plan for me kids to spend a lot of time in Europe as they're growing up as well, so they as many people have mentioned will be blessed with the best from two different cultures and continents. If financially we would have to be stuck in Phuket and never be able to visit Europe then that could be a key factor in not living here.

HKP, I would be interested to know what you think their employment opportunities will be like, in Thailand, near mum and dad, without a Western uni degree? The trades (hair dresser - electrician etc) pay nothing, as you know. Don't quote me on this, but I think many countries do not recognise trades certificates from Thailand. So, for example, a Thai electrician can not go to the UK and work as an electrician because the UK know he has not been properly trained. Even with a western degree, like I posted earlier, the good jobs go to members of the 10 families who own/run Phuket.

I agree with points you have said in your post, BUT, it's not just about being good parents while they are young, in the family home, it's also about the level of education you place them in and the environment in which they grow up in. These are a little out of your control on Phuket, due to availablity and the touristic nature of the island. In the west, it would be governed by your financial position as to what suburb you live in and what school you can afford to send your kids to.

Are you looking 18 years down the track? Do you want your son/daughter earning 8000 baht a month? A western degree would have to be a must, in order to get a decent job here. (here, meaning Thailand)

It really is a conflict of intrests. On one hand, we have foreigners who have worked hard for many years and retired young, or old, who want to live by the beach on Phuket - on the other hand, children come along and the best education, medical, sport, entertainment and safe enviroment for them is not on Phuket. There in, lays the dilema. Mum and Dad's happiness, versus what's truly best for the kids.

dont know much about the other ones but the small sallon here has a paid worker in it and she was paid on comission.. she averaged 50k baht a month. The owner was making much more. and that was with a 20k baht rent.

there's also about 25 more of them within walkable distance. It's definately one of the smallest.

Edited March 13, 2012 by thaiIand

[seaeagle]

I have been following this thread with interest as I am also exploring the possibility of living in Thailand, although not Phuket. As HKP has stated such a move has to put the kids future first and foremost.

I have done a fair bit of research into schools and areas to live and I feel that given the right school my children could get a very good education right up until the IB qualifications, which would potentially allow them to go on to University. My biggest concern is what would they do having finished school at 18 or so.

As I understand it ( and I stand to be corrected ) in order to qualify as a UK student at a UK university you have to be ordinarily resident in the UK for three years prior to beginning the course. Otherwise you would have to pay much higher overseas student fees. That is of course if the children have the ability or desire to go on to university. So in reality if this was the course they wanted then you would really have to return to the UK to live when they are around 15yrs old, probably not worth the disruption of uprooting them from school and resettling all over again.

Are there any other options ? I can't think of any but would be interested to hear what others think.

This is what I referred to in my first post in this thread - you MUST look beyond the teenage years.

I repeat that there's nothing here for a person with a decent education. Even if you put them through an International School here, then what? Nothing!

Look at it this way - we're here because we've got a good education and career and income from our home countries. What you don't see is kids being brought up here through school, working here, then retiring to Gold Coast or Florida in their 40's / 50's. What you do see is people in that age bracket who've studied and worked hard for rewards in the 'west', then coming here.

Edited March 13, 2012 by seaeagle

[HongKongPhooey]

This is what I referred to in my first post in this thread - you MUST look beyond the teenage years.

I repeat that there's nothing here for a person with a decent education. Even if you put them through an International School here, then what? Nothing!

What you don't see is kids being brought up here through school, working here, then retiring to Gold Coast or Florida in their 40's / 50's. What you do see is people in that age bracket who've studied and worked hard for rewards in the 'west', then coming here.

Isn't that just a generation thing? 20 years ago Patong was a small fishing village so what makes up the populace now will be completely different to what it will be in another 20 years. It's only recently that the facilities have been good enough here to give expat kids just as good a start in life as anywhere else.

I've met lots of people who grew up outside their own country over the years. Hong kong, India, Kuwait, even met someone with Irish parents who grew up in Peru recently! They all managed to integrate successfully in to the modern Western world after having studied at International schools and furthering their education back in their own country when it was necessary.

Nobody can say what Phuket will be like in 10/15 years, and as long as you always have options open, then I can't see how it matters.

Look at it this way - we're here because we've got a good education and career and income from our home countries.

That's just it. England is my kids home country as well! So why are you looking past them having a decent career there and earning the money they need so they can decide where in the world they want to bring up their children?

Maybe when my kids are 18 they'll want to go and work in Australia or Japan. I bet they'll be much more open to that as a possibility than the average 18 year old in the UK who's done very little travelling and has very little experience of people and cultures outside of his own. To me their options could be greater than their UK counterpart, not fewer.

Edited March 13, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[Guest]

HKP: It seems to me that you have already made your decision, or at least be in denial by your replies. That's probably not the best way to organize your and your kids life.

There are hugely negative points of living in Phuket. Older people, like yourself, can handle the negative issues and live happily on the island. Youngsters are still learning how to live.

The issue of this island is the values. What are the things that are considered valued and what are not. Money goes over everything here. If that's a value that you wish to teach to you kids.. well then it's settled and you move on. But if you wish to teach your kids some other values, then Phuket is not the place to grow up.

You might say that you are the one who gives the values to your kids. That's partly true, but only partly. Your kids are individuals who adopt all the information around them. As teenagers they will also question your values, which is part of the process of growing up. That's one vulnerable period.

You might want to re-read this thread, even the comments which are supporting your will to live in Phuket. People who have lived in Phuket for longer than an vacation time, have learned what are the upsides and downsides on the island. Some people naturally have their glass half empty, but still, it's good to understand why and try to reflect that one to you and your family in a few years to come. Heck, even mr. Thailand did wrote a good reply on the topic (which I still found incredible).

You did ask questions, be prepared to understand the grounds of the answers as well, even if it hurts.

[HongKongPhooey]

HKP: It seems to me that you have already made your decision, or at least be in denial by your replies. That's probably not the best way to organize your and your kids life.

There are hugely negative points of living in Phuket. Older people, like yourself, can handle the negative issues and live happily on the island. Youngsters are still learning how to live.

The issue of this island is the values. What are the things that are considered valued and what are not. Money goes over everything here. If that's a value that you wish to teach to you kids.. well then it's settled and you move on. But if you wish to teach your kids some other values, then Phuket is not the place to grow up.

You might say that you are the one who gives the values to your kids. That's partly true, but only partly. Your kids are individuals who adopt all the information around them. As teenagers they will also question your values, which is part of the process of growing up. That's one vulnerable period.

You might want to re-read this thread, even the comments which are supporting your will to live in Phuket. People who have lived in Phuket for longer than an vacation time, have learned what are the upsides and downsides on the island. Some people naturally have their glass half empty, but still, it's good to understand why and try to reflect that one to you and your family in a few years to come. Heck, even mr. Thailand did wrote a good reply on the topic (which I still found incredible).

You did ask questions, be prepared to understand the grounds of the answers as well, even if it hurts.

That's fair comment but I don't believe it's true. I don't believe I'm in denial at all.

What happened is that I started the thread and gave a couple of things that worried me (or that could worry me in 10 years time) and those things haven't been raised since. The things that have been raised are things that I don't personally see as a problem, therefore have argued against them.

If 'Seaeagle' is going to have a problem getting his kids to enjoy a healthy life style and partake in a multitude of enjoyable activities then that's a shame, but it certainly isn't a problem I will ever have. If other people won't be able to afford to pay for their kids to go to Uni in Europe and be prepared to move back to Europe as well to make it possible then again that's a shame for them but it's not a problem for me.

So you are partly right. I undoubtedly have made up my mind to give it a go, but I'm certainly not in denial or burying my head in the sand. I will be alert to any problems that may arise and be fully prepared if the only way to resolve those problems is to move back to the UK, then that's what will happen.

I'm fully prepared to take on board everything people say but I can't make something a problem for me if quite simply it isn't.

P.S I think you and a lot of others are seriously overlooking the poor state Europe's in these days. Jobs and values aren't exactly free flowing there either any more.

[Guest]

I come from the country where the education is supposed to be one of the bests in the world. I haven't live in Europe for the last 10 years and therefore can not say what is the life back there today. I know that Asia is the leader of the world for the near future.

Still, if I had the knowledge of this island at the moment I moved here, I had not done the move. Simple as that. I would have found some other place to work, rest and play. Some place with more people that I can look up to.

The view of the island changes during the time we spend here. There are naturally culture shocks which effect all of us after a while, but what we see after that is important.

People on this forum has lived their 'aaah, wonderfull.. oooh shit!.. well, I suppose this is ok.. hey let' improve my home' - moments.

I'm actually really curious, how do you see, what would be your typical day in Phuket when you move in and after one year living here?

[HongKongPhooey]

I come from the country where the education is supposed to be one of the bests in the world. I haven't live in Europe for the last 10 years and therefore can not say what is the life back there today. I know that Asia is the leader of the world for the near future.

Still, if I had the knowledge of this island at the moment I moved here, I had not done the move. Simple as that. I would have found some other place to work, rest and play. Some place with more people that I can look up to.

The view of the island changes during the time we spend here. There are naturally culture shocks which effect all of us after a while, but what we see after that is important.

People on this forum has lived their 'aaah, wonderfull.. oooh shit!.. well, I suppose this is ok.. hey let' improve my home' - moments.

I'm actually really curious, how do you see, what would be your typical day in Phuket when you move in and after one year living here?

Can't give a full answer right now but my kids were born in Phuket and we've been based there for the last few years. My first one year of living there has been and gone.

[HongKongPhooey]

I come from the country where the education is supposed to be one of the bests in the world. I haven't live in Europe for the last 10 years and therefore can not say what is the life back there today. I know that Asia is the leader of the world for the near future.

Still, if I had the knowledge of this island at the moment I moved here, I had not done the move. Simple as that. I would have found some other place to work, rest and play. Some place with more people that I can look up to.

The view of the island changes during the time we spend here. There are naturally culture shocks which effect all of us after a while, but what we see after that is important.

People on this forum has lived their 'aaah, wonderfull.. oooh shit!.. well, I suppose this is ok.. hey let' improve my home' - moments.

I'm actually really curious, how do you see, what would be your typical day in Phuket when you move in and after one year living here?

I think you've made a common mistake there. You've assumed because Phuket hasn't lived up to your expectations then it can only mean that I haven't spent much time there. Because obviously if I had I would want to leave by now, right? I haven't spent anywhere near as much time there as other members of this forum have, but I have spent more than enough time over a long enough period of time, to see all the changes for better and worse and to know exactly what living there long term entails.

I accept the fact that at any time something major could happen that would make me change my mind, or something not major just inevitable like my kids getting older and needing to be somewhere else. But until then Phuket is where we want to be and has been for a long time.

I find your question about what a typical day would be rather strange. It reminds me of a time my uncle said to me 'Don't you get bored there?' At the time he said it he was at work, at a job he despised. I could have asked him what he gets up to in an average week and then told him what I did, but it was easier to just say 'No'.

Phuket obviously hasn't worked out for you and I give you a lot of credit for not being one of the morons that want to slag the place off constantly as a result, but for a lot of people Phuket is a pretty great place to live and a great place to raise children. I still have my concerns about it as a place for teenagers but only time will tell if they are well founded or not.

I also believe ten years away from Europe leaves you well out of the picture when it comes to making a comparison. People think Phuket has changed a lot. Some parts of the UK would be unrecognisable now if you hadn't seen them for 10 years. People really do need to stop referring to the West as if it's riding high on a wave of excellence because it isn't. It's drowning!

[stevenl]

I have been following this thread with interest as I am also exploring the possibility of living in Thailand, although not Phuket. As HKP has stated such a move has to put the kids future first and foremost.

I have done a fair bit of research into schools and areas to live and I feel that given the right school my children could get a very good education right up until the IB qualifications, which would potentially allow them to go on to University. My biggest concern is what would they do having finished school at 18 or so.

As I understand it ( and I stand to be corrected ) in order to qualify as a UK student at a UK university you have to be ordinarily resident in the UK for three years prior to beginning the course. Otherwise you would have to pay much higher overseas student fees. That is of course if the children have the ability or desire to go on to university. So in reality if this was the course they wanted then you would really have to return to the UK to live when they are around 15yrs old, probably not worth the disruption of uprooting them from school and resettling all over again.

Are there any other options ? I can't think of any but would be interested to hear what others think.

This is what I referred to in my first post in this thread - you MUST look beyond the teenage years.

I repeat that there's nothing here for a person with a decent education. Even if you put them through an International School here, then what? Nothing!

Look at it this way - we're here because we've got a good education and career and income from our home countries. What you don't see is kids being brought up here through school, working here, then retiring to Gold Coast or Florida in their 40's / 50's. What you do see is people in that age bracket who've studied and worked hard for rewards in the 'west', then coming here.

What's the difference to living in the country back home? Many teenagers moving away to exploit (perceived) opportunities elsewhere, sometimes returning, sometimes not. But at the same time others are staying.

[boogie]

So in reality if this was the course they wanted then you would really have to return to the UK to live when they are around 15yrs old, probably not worth the disruption of uprooting them from school and resettling all over again.

Are there any other options ? I can't think of any but would be interested to hear what others think.

I hadn't looked in to the costs of University so didn't know there was a vast difference in price. Does that definitely refer to British citizens as well or just foreign students?

I would agree 100% that taking them from one country to the other at 15 should be avoided if possible. Not to say it would be the end of the world but certainly not ideal.

Yes unfortunately it does apply to British Citizens. I haven't read all of this http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/fees_student_support.php but it contains a lot of information. I think the bottom line is that the 3 year rule applies, but it looks like EU citizens can also qualify. I won't rant about that as that could take this subject way off course !!

From what I have read in the past most ex-pats seem to return home for their children's secondary education. I would really like to hear from anybody who has stayed in Thailand for the duration and how they dealt with all the issues. It may be that some could afford to send their children overseas to university, or maybe they didn't carry on their education after school. Whatever the case it would be interesting to find out. I am sure there must be some examples.

[Valentine]

HKP, you have openly stated. "I love Phuket" - but will your kids love Phuket? Will you ask them? If they do not like Phuket, what will you do - will you consider moving? If you see them hanging around with the wrong crowd, getting bad grades etc, will you watch them go down hill, just because YOU love Phuket?

The question is, if there's a hint that things aren't working out best for your kids are you prepared to jump on the next plane back to the UK, regardless of how much you would rather be in Phuket and regardless of how unhappy it will make you and your wife, and how much worse your life would be. If the answer to that question is yes, (which it has to be) then there shouldn't be a problem.

my extreme view comes from the fact that MOST parents in phuket are no where decent enough people to do this.

When i drove my kid to an international school in the morning, i counted more singah chang daddies and bargirl mommies than normal people.

It would be interesting to know what your version of a normal person is. I know many people who drink alcohol on a regular basis who are decent people, hold down good jobs & run their own business. I also know many ex bar girls who have married & become very good moms. Something about glass houses springs to mind.

[NamKangMan]

HKP: It seems to me that you have already made your decision, or at least be in denial by your replies. That's probably not the best way to organize your and your kids life.

There are hugely negative points of living in Phuket. Older people, like yourself, can handle the negative issues and live happily on the island. Youngsters are still learning how to live.

The issue of this island is the values. What are the things that are considered valued and what are not. Money goes over everything here. If that's a value that you wish to teach to you kids.. well then it's settled and you move on. But if you wish to teach your kids some other values, then Phuket is not the place to grow up.

You might say that you are the one who gives the values to your kids. That's partly true, but only partly. Your kids are individuals who adopt all the information around them. As teenagers they will also question your values, which is part of the process of growing up. That's one vulnerable period.

You might want to re-read this thread, even the comments which are supporting your will to live in Phuket. People who have lived in Phuket for longer than an vacation time, have learned what are the upsides and downsides on the island. Some people naturally have their glass half empty, but still, it's good to understand why and try to reflect that one to you and your family in a few years to come. Heck, even mr. Thailand did wrote a good reply on the topic (which I still found incredible).

You did ask questions, be prepared to understand the grounds of the answers as well, even if it hurts.

That's fair comment but I don't believe it's true. I don't believe I'm in denial at all.

What happened is that I started the thread and gave a couple of things that worried me (or that could worry me in 10 years time) and those things haven't been raised since. The things that have been raised are things that I don't personally see as a problem, therefore have argued against them.

If 'Seaeagle' is going to have a problem getting his kids to enjoy a healthy life style and partake in a multitude of enjoyable activities then that's a shame, but it certainly isn't a problem I will ever have. If other people won't be able to afford to pay for their kids to go to Uni in Europe and be prepared to move back to Europe as well to make it possible then again that's a shame for them but it's not a problem for me.

So you are partly right. I undoubtedly have made up my mind to give it a go, but I'm certainly not in denial or burying my head in the sand. I will be alert to any problems that may arise and be fully prepared if the only way to resolve those problems is to move back to the UK, then that's what will happen.

I'm fully prepared to take on board everything people say but I can't make something a problem for me if quite simply it isn't.

P.S I think you and a lot of others are seriously overlooking the poor state Europe's in these days. Jobs and values aren't exactly free flowing there either any more.

HKP, can't you see that you already have a future "problem?" Education, employment opportunities and earning potential of your children, if you and/or they, remain in Phuket/Thailand. If you don't want to look that far down the track, fine, that's your prerogative, but one day your kids will be 18 years old and will need to start their own life in this world.

In an earlier post, you mentioned crime and violence on the island, in the future, was your main concern. Notice how very few posts, if any, have been about crime and violence and most have been about education and opportunity. This should be your main concern, not crime and violence.

"If other people will not be able to afford to pay for their kids to go to uni in Europe and be prepared to move back to Europe as well to make it possible then again it's a shame for them but it's not a problem for me. " - It's not about how much money YOU have, or where YOU can move to. You made your money in the west, which now allows you to live here. It's about WHEN should you move, and WHERE do you move to, because to remain here, forever, means you either do not see much of your kids, because they live abroad, or you condemn them to a 300 baht a day earning capacity, for the rest of their working lives.

Like I said in an earlier post, if your kids want a tertiary education, they will have to get it in the UK. If they want a trade, Eg. electrician - they will have to get it in the UK. Now, after they complete their degree, or trade, do you think they will come back to Thailand and be prepared to earn 300 baht a day in a trade, or 1200 baht a day with a degree???? So, if you want to be with your kids, you should prepare yourself for the fact that you will only be on Phuket for another 10 years. Your kids will study at uni, or get a trade, and then they are old enough to decide where they want to live and what they want to do, but I can bet it will not be living in Thailand earning 300 baht a day. They will make their money in the west, like we did. Or, after several years and gaining experience, and depending on what their chosen occupation may be, land a good job in Bangkok, with a multinational company.

Phuket boomed in the 80's. That's a generation ago. Look around you. Do you see any 50/50 adults in good jobs on Phuket, no.

[steelepulse]

I find it kind of funny that some posters say that kids here who want to go into a trade won't make any money. Why go into a trade when you can either step into your family's business, start up your own business, or take advantage of the overseas degree and work somewhere else. Are none of you cynical posters not entrepreneurs? I certainly don't think anyone wants nor expects their kids to be in a menial 300 baht a day job in Phuket after paying hefty school fees for 10+ years.

As far as having to pay overseas university tuition if you don't move back at 15, pay it if you children choose to go back to your home country. But what about if you kid wants to go to OZ,CH, FR, US,NZ, ES, CA or somewhere else for their education? You're going to pay overseas fees anyway.

[NamKangMan]

I find it kind of funny that some posters say that kids here who want to go into a trade won't make any money. Why go into a trade when you can either step into your family's business, start up your own business, or take advantage of the overseas degree and work somewhere else. Are none of you cynical posters not entrepreneurs? I certainly don't think anyone wants nor expects their kids to be in a menial 300 baht a day job in Phuket after paying hefty school fees for 10+ years.

As far as having to pay overseas university tuition if you don't move back at 15, pay it if you children choose to go back to your home country. But what about if you kid wants to go to OZ,CH, FR, US,NZ, ES, CA or somewhere else for their education? You're going to pay overseas fees anyway.

The thought behind my posts was to keep the family unit together. If someone is happy to send their kids back home, or to a different country, for university and/or boarding school, and wave goodbye to them at the airport, so they can remain on Phuket, so be it. Each to their own.

Setting up a business for your children is not a bad idea, however, we do not know what the economic conditions will be like on Phuket in 10 to 15 years time, and not just in the tourism industry. I would think that decision could wait till they are around 17 and know what they would like to do for a career and then see if this option is viable. One risk is, if the business fails, down the track, they have no degree and no trade qualifications, then, they are back on 300 baht a day.

One member stated his kid would go into the family business in Thailand. Let's just hope, for the kid's sake, he actually wants to do that kind of work.

Last I heard, and it was a few years ago, International students had to pay for university fees in Australia, "up front." A degree, at a reasonable uni in Australia, was about $100,000AUD - then, you have accommodation, food, utilities etc on the top. If you have that sort of money, it's a good option, but it still leaves you with the fact that if your kid comes back to Thailand after 4 years of study abroad, and with a western degree in their hand, they will earn a salary that is nowhere near comparable to what they could earn in the west. So, they will probably work abroad, and I would suggest, due to citizenship/work visa issues, many will live and work in the home country of their father.

Now, just to look even further down the track, you kid falls in love and gets married and starts their own family. If you decide on staying in Phuket, whilst your kid/s are living and working back in your home country, you will miss out on seeing your grandchildren, for any extended period of time. Once again, each to their own. If that is not an issue for you, great.

I'm not dwelling on so far into the future, but it is worth a quick thought.

It really is a tough decision that many will have to make in the future.

[HongKongPhooey]

HKP, can't you see that you already have a future "problem?" Education, employment opportunities and earning potential of your children, if you and/or they, remain in Phuket/Thailand. If you don't want to look that far down the track, fine, that's your prerogative, but one day your kids will be 18 years old and will need to start their own life in this world.

In an earlier post, you mentioned crime and violence on the island, in the future, was your main concern. Notice how very few posts, if any, have been about crime and violence and most have been about education and opportunity. This should be your main concern, not crime and violence.

"If other people will not be able to afford to pay for their kids to go to uni in Europe and be prepared to move back to Europe as well to make it possible then again it's a shame for them but it's not a problem for me. " - It's not about how much money YOU have, or where YOU can move to. You made your money in the west, which now allows you to live here. It's about WHEN should you move, and WHERE do you move to, because to remain here, forever, means you either do not see much of your kids, because they live abroad, or you condemn them to a 300 baht a day earning capacity, for the rest of their working lives.

Like I said in an earlier post, if your kids want a tertiary education, they will have to get it in the UK. If they want a trade, Eg. electrician - they will have to get it in the UK. Now, after they complete their degree, or trade, do you think they will come back to Thailand and be prepared to earn 300 baht a day in a trade, or 1200 baht a day with a degree???? So, if you want to be with your kids, you should prepare yourself for the fact that you will only be on Phuket for another 10 years. Your kids will study at uni, or get a trade, and then they are old enough to decide where they want to live and what they want to do, but I can bet it will not be living in Thailand earning 300 baht a day. They will make their money in the west, like we did. Or, after several years and gaining experience, and depending on what their chosen occupation may be, land a good job in Bangkok, with a multinational company.

Phuket boomed in the 80's. That's a generation ago. Look around you. Do you see any 50/50 adults in good jobs on Phuket, no.

Come on NKM, you're going over the same thing time and time again and, I'm giving you decent, logical solutions every time.

Firstly, why are you so obsessed with the children's home country? Have you not heard of a little thing called the EU? My kids can study or work anywhere in Europe without visas or perhaps they will want to work in the Middle East, are you telling me the Arabs don't pay well? You're stuck with this whole notion that the world revolves around the UK (If that's where you're from) when currently education and employment is at an all time low in the UK. My kids won't have that same sense of dependence on the UK that say my friends kids have. The ones who grew up in the same town as both their parents and went to the same school as their parents etc etc. My kids will automatically have a wider view on the world and their options, having two passports and having life experience on both sides of the world. That already puts them head and shoulders above some other kids who wouldn't even be able to find Asia on a map.

I am not denying that some of the things you have mentioned are justified, but you are talking as if they are problems with no solutions so they need to be worried about now. For me that's a horribly negative, scared way to live your life. Ever heard of grabbing something by the balls? Why would I give my family a crap life in the UK, working my tits off to support any Albanian or Kosovan that fancies coming there to put his feet up, just because I'm scared of something that's going to happen in 10 years time when I know full well that when the time comes I will be able to do what's right.

Your best argument is about keeping the family unit together. I agree with this although you have to realise that at 18 lots of kids are chomping at the bit for their first bit of independence, and will be off studying or working abroad anyway, and I have said several times that if the time comes and I need to move wherever in the world to be near and support my kids then I am more than prepared to do that. Why have you overlooked this statement several times and continued to talk about us not being together when they're 18?

[HongKongPhooey]

Now, just to look even further down the track, you kid falls in love and gets married and starts their own family. If you decide on staying in Phuket, whilst your kid/s are living and working back in your home country, you will miss out on seeing your grandchildren, for any extended period of time. Once again, each to their own. If that is not an issue for you, great.

I'm not dwelling on so far into the future, but it is worth a quick thought.

It really is a tough decision that many will have to make in the future.

To me NKM that's utter madness. To overly worry when you are in your thirties about where you are going to be in relationship to your grand children when you're in your sixties!!

You have to have an idea about where you are going and you have to have options, but nobody knows what will happen that far in to the future and it's completely futile trying to plan for it.

What if you spend your whole life going down that route and then your kid decides not to have any kids of his own and wants to be a monk in Tibet for the rest of his life. You've spent your whole life planning something that didn't work out how you thought it would. What a waste.

[glassdude007]

I've got a 11 year old girl and have been thinking this question as well whats her teenage years gonna be like here living in Phuket?? She is already wanting her own cell phone, watching too much TV, talking back to mom a bit, all the things normal kids do, we let her hang at the mall with friends on the week ends with mommy close behind shopping but not getting in her way. Her friends all from school have slept over the house and the neiborhood kids are noisy but nice, she already drives small motorbike in our yard not on roads yet...yes thats my main concern for her is the day when we hand her the keys to the motorbike or car and off she goes riding around phuket on her own..I'm scared to do it same same as i'm scared to drive here everyday myself,..

Edited March 14, 2012 by glassdude007

[stevenl]

Now, just to look even further down the track, you kid falls in love and gets married and starts their own family. If you decide on staying in Phuket, whilst your kid/s are living and working back in your home country, you will miss out on seeing your grandchildren, for any extended period of time. Once again, each to their own. If that is not an issue for you, great.

I'm not dwelling on so far into the future, but it is worth a quick thought.

It really is a tough decision that many will have to make in the future.

To me NKM that's utter madness. To overly worry when you are in your thirties about where you are going to be in relationship to your grand children when you're in your sixties!!

You have to have an idea about where you are going and you have to have options, but nobody knows what will happen that far in to the future and it's completely futile trying to plan for it.

What if you spend your whole life going down that route and then your kid decides not to have any kids of his own and wants to be a monk in Tibet for the rest of his life. You've spent your whole life planning something that didn't work out how you thought it would. What a waste.

No worries, probably the children will move to Phuket by that time, so you still can enjoy your grandkids.

[seaeagle]

Seem to be getting stuck on future opportunities if kids remain here, so I've started a new thread to try and find out from parents what their late teens / early 20's are doing.

Should be interesting to see any responses.

[NamKangMan]

Now, just to look even further down the track, you kid falls in love and gets married and starts their own family. If you decide on staying in Phuket, whilst your kid/s are living and working back in your home country, you will miss out on seeing your grandchildren, for any extended period of time. Once again, each to their own. If that is not an issue for you, great.

I'm not dwelling on so far into the future, but it is worth a quick thought.

It really is a tough decision that many will have to make in the future.

To me NKM that's utter madness. To overly worry when you are in your thirties about where you are going to be in relationship to your grand children when you're in your sixties!!

You have to have an idea about where you are going and you have to have options, but nobody knows what will happen that far in to the future and it's completely futile trying to plan for it.

What if you spend your whole life going down that route and then your kid decides not to have any kids of his own and wants to be a monk in Tibet for the rest of his life. You've spent your whole life planning something that didn't work out how you thought it would. What a waste.

Fair call. Like I said, "I'm not dwelling on so far in the future, but it's worth a quick thought."

[NamKangMan]

HKP, can't you see that you already have a future "problem?" Education, employment opportunities and earning potential of your children, if you and/or they, remain in Phuket/Thailand. If you don't want to look that far down the track, fine, that's your prerogative, but one day your kids will be 18 years old and will need to start their own life in this world.

In an earlier post, you mentioned crime and violence on the island, in the future, was your main concern. Notice how very few posts, if any, have been about crime and violence and most have been about education and opportunity. This should be your main concern, not crime and violence.

"If other people will not be able to afford to pay for their kids to go to uni in Europe and be prepared to move back to Europe as well to make it possible then again it's a shame for them but it's not a problem for me. " - It's not about how much money YOU have, or where YOU can move to. You made your money in the west, which now allows you to live here. It's about WHEN should you move, and WHERE do you move to, because to remain here, forever, means you either do not see much of your kids, because they live abroad, or you condemn them to a 300 baht a day earning capacity, for the rest of their working lives.

Like I said in an earlier post, if your kids want a tertiary education, they will have to get it in the UK. If they want a trade, Eg. electrician - they will have to get it in the UK. Now, after they complete their degree, or trade, do you think they will come back to Thailand and be prepared to earn 300 baht a day in a trade, or 1200 baht a day with a degree???? So, if you want to be with your kids, you should prepare yourself for the fact that you will only be on Phuket for another 10 years. Your kids will study at uni, or get a trade, and then they are old enough to decide where they want to live and what they want to do, but I can bet it will not be living in Thailand earning 300 baht a day. They will make their money in the west, like we did. Or, after several years and gaining experience, and depending on what their chosen occupation may be, land a good job in Bangkok, with a multinational company.

Phuket boomed in the 80's. That's a generation ago. Look around you. Do you see any 50/50 adults in good jobs on Phuket, no.

Come on NKM, you're going over the same thing time and time again and, I'm giving you decent, logical solutions every time.

Firstly, why are you so obsessed with the children's home country? Have you not heard of a little thing called the EU? My kids can study or work anywhere in Europe without visas or perhaps they will want to work in the Middle East, are you telling me the Arabs don't pay well? You're stuck with this whole notion that the world revolves around the UK (If that's where you're from) when currently education and employment is at an all time low in the UK. My kids won't have that same sense of dependence on the UK that say my friends kids have. The ones who grew up in the same town as both their parents and went to the same school as their parents etc etc. My kids will automatically have a wider view on the world and their options, having two passports and having life experience on both sides of the world. That already puts them head and shoulders above some other kids who wouldn't even be able to find Asia on a map.

I am not denying that some of the things you have mentioned are justified, but you are talking as if they are problems with no solutions so they need to be worried about now. For me that's a horribly negative, scared way to live your life. Ever heard of grabbing something by the balls? Why would I give my family a crap life in the UK, working my tits off to support any Albanian or Kosovan that fancies coming there to put his feet up, just because I'm scared of something that's going to happen in 10 years time when I know full well that when the time comes I will be able to do what's right.

Your best argument is about keeping the family unit together. I agree with this although you have to realise that at 18 lots of kids are chomping at the bit for their first bit of independence, and will be off studying or working abroad anyway, and I have said several times that if the time comes and I need to move wherever in the world to be near and support my kids then I am more than prepared to do that. Why have you overlooked this statement several times and continued to talk about us not being together when they're 18?

HKP, it's a simple question. Do you agree your kids will NEED either a degree, or a trade qualification, in the west, in order to get a decent job, anywhere in the world? (notice I said "the west" and not "the UK")

Sure, The Middle East pays well, but you need globally recognised qualifications to get work there. Or, be ex-military. Thailand qualifications and training are not recognised internationally.

If you agree your kids will need to either study, or be trained abroad, for decent qualifications, and you would like to keep the family unit together, that means you are moving with them, is that right? If so, that means when they head off to uni, or to do an apprenticeship (trade) you will be leaving Phuket. After they gain a degree, or are trade qualified, do you really expect them to come back to Thailand and earn <deleted> all money????

At the end of the day, you can have all the life experience in the world, and the benefit of being raised with the influence of two cultures and languages, but employers require appropriate qualifications, training and experience and the west, and the wealthy Thai's know, you can't get these in Thailand.

[NamKangMan]

Seem to be getting stuck on future opportunities if kids remain here, so I've started a new thread to try and find out from parents what their late teens / early 20's are doing.

Should be interesting to see any responses.

Like I said, how many 50/50 staff do you see with a good job here, or even working in a 7/11 for that matter????

[HongKongPhooey]

HKP, it's a simple question. Do you agree your kids will NEED either a degree, or a trade qualification, in the west, in order to get a decent job, anywhere in the world? (notice I said "the west" and not "the UK")

Most likely yes. Obviously if there is a family business that can employ them, or they have enough flair and ability to make a go of a business themselves then it wouldn't be the only way. But yes, that will undoubtedly be the way they put themselves in the driving seat and guaranteed a secure future for themselves.

If you agree your kids will need to either study, or be trained abroad, for decent qualifications, and you would like to keep the family unit together, that means you are moving with them, is that right? If so, that means when they head off to uni, or to do an apprenticeship (trade) you will be leaving Phuket. After they gain a degree, or are trade qualified, do you really expect them to come back to Thailand and earn <deleted> all money????

I've spent a lot of time going to and fro from Thailand and the UK over the last 12 years. Obviously that has to stop when the kids start school, but I don't see why it couldn't be the way we lived when the kids are adults. Spending time together in both countries and spending some time apart. No Grown up kids want their parents around them every day anyway, despite how much the parents would like it. My mother would have me and my sister living with her now if she could! I dare say I'll feel the same, but young adults need the space to start their own lives.

In answer to your question, do I ever see a time where I go very long periods of time without seeing my grown up kids? NO. As 'Stevenl' pointed out. In an ideal world they would be financially able to support themselves sooner rather than later and be in Phuket with your grand kids as well. If it doesn't work out as perfectly as that, which it probably won't, you make other arrangements.

The point is, worrying too much about these things now and living a less fulfilling, enjoyable life while they are growing up as a result, is daft. Live in the moment and deal with those things when you get there.

P.S I've enjoyed this thread, lots to think about. At least the grown ups came out to play this time not the trolls.

Edited March 14, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[NamKangMan]

HKP, it's a simple question. Do you agree your kids will NEED either a degree, or a trade qualification, in the west, in order to get a decent job, anywhere in the world? (notice I said "the west" and not "the UK")

Most likely yes. Obviously if there is a family business that can employ them, or they have enough flair and ability to make a go of a business themselves then it wouldn't be the only way. But yes, that will undoubtedly be the way they put themselves in the driving seat and guaranteed a secure future for themselves.

If you agree your kids will need to either study, or be trained abroad, for decent qualifications, and you would like to keep the family unit together, that means you are moving with them, is that right? If so, that means when they head off to uni, or to do an apprenticeship (trade) you will be leaving Phuket. After they gain a degree, or are trade qualified, do you really expect them to come back to Thailand and earn <deleted> all money????

I've spent a lot of time going to and fro from Thailand and the UK over the last 12 years. Obviously that has to stop when the kids start school, but I don't see why it couldn't be the way we lived when the kids are adults. Spending time together in both countries and spending some time apart. No Grown up kids want their parents around them every day anyway, despite how much the parents would like it. My mother would have me and my sister living with her now if she could! I dare say I'll feel the same, but young adults need the space to start their own lives.

In answer to your question, do I ever see a time where I go very long periods of time without seeing my grown up kids? NO. As 'Stevenl' pointed out. In an ideal world they would be financially able to support themselves sooner rather than later and be in Phuket with your grand kids as well. If it doesn't work out as perfectly as that, which it probably won't, you make other arrangements.

The point is, worrying too much about these things now and living a less fulfilling, enjoyable life while they are growing up as a result, is daft. Live in the moment and deal with those things when you get there.

P.S I've enjoyed this thread, lots to think about. At least the grown ups came out to play this time not the trolls.

A little contradictory HKP. In your OP you mention crime an violence in 10 years time on the island. When I posted your main concern should be education and job opportunities, you say "Live in the moment and deal with those things when you get there."

From day one your kids start school, the "moment" will have arrived.

Check out a series of questions I posted on the other thread.

Also agree that it's a good thread, and one that should give a lot of "food for thought" to the many parents of kids here, on the island.

Edited March 15, 2012 by NamKangMan

[LivinLOS]

5) what opportunity awaits for them, in adulthood, on Phuket, where they can be close to family? The high paying jobs on the island go to extended family members of the 10 families who run the island. Any other job, and they are just earning a few baht, which may still be ok money in Thailand, but nothing abroad. They will have to live in Bangkok to earn any sort of decent money.

This is where I would see raising a young adult to be a unsolveable problem..

When I was young I had jobs and hustles.. I would hitchhike to car auctions, buy a motor, come home clean and tart it up, slap an MOT on it, sell it for a profit.. I had odd jobs, I would constantly scan the free ad papers for buy and sells...

This entrepreneurial spirit enabled me to gain independence from my family at a young age, put money in my pocket, talk me how to deal with people, how to trade and barter.. How to ultimately be successful in business (retired by 28) as well as move out from home, forge my own path in the world.

How can an expat youth gain independence from their expat parents ?? What job market can an expat child go and start in ?? They will forever be 'outside' the society.. Forever be viewed as being a silver spoon rich kid ripe to be taken advantage of, without the benefit of an expats wallet to enjoy doing so.. They basically have a Thai job market and an expats costs.

In the west being young and poor is just part of the social fabric, students get by on low living costs, your all in the same boat.. Starting out.. Here there will never be that common ground for an expat kid, and without some hardship and striving in your younger days, without being forced to go make a buck yourself, outside the family its hard to imagine much work ethic or independence being fostered either.

Young adults need to grow in a society where they are among equals, I dont see how Thais attitudes to farangs enables that to happen.