One Million Credit Cards For Thai Farmers To Be Launched Next Month

[jonclark]

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

As opposed to knee-jerk negativity about a Government program from those who are agenized to do so, I inquired what is the "one" good thing about this particular program.

Obviously a program such as this was not created in a vacuum, and there was some solid rationale, beyond bald politics as this Poster suggests.

Several advantages were mentioned, the primary one being the issue of were credit originates.

For the many farmers who don't have the money in a pre-emptive manner, they buy on credit now, provided by the merchants. Credit that is provided at unfavorable rates and unfavorable terms.

This program releases the Farmer from such arrangements. It gives them farmer-friendly credit access, with heavy emphasis and controls on the CC being used for their singular agriculture defined and intended purpose, as referenced in this article.

Bottom line, this does not affect farmer indebtedness up or down, just its' source.

I guess the question should be why are farmers in such debt? It would seem on the surface that Thailand values it rural heritage (which is understandable) but these small hold farms are simply not viable economically as the costs (rent, fertilizers, equipment etc) compared to what it takes to grow rice on a 5 rai plot compared to the wholesale price of rice paddy gives a very small profit margin (if any) for a lot of hard work. Simply propping up the rice farmers with state subsidies (which is what this credit card basically is) results in debt and unproductive farming practices.

Clearly Thailand sells a lot of rice,(and someone makes a lot of money) but the farming structure (thousands of small family managed plots) means it is from the farmers point of view very difficult to survive financially. Ultimately this form of farming will disappear. Credit cards, state subsidies just prolong the agony of the farmer

[thaimat]

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

Spot on! The previous administration had a program to buy back (at low interest) the high debt farmers incurred under PM Thaksin, AND had a program that would reimburse farmers if they lost money on their season's crop. Those abolished by PM Shinawatra, following in Thaksin's footsteps, getting all the farmers back deep in debt with this scheme.

[kirk0233]

Why spend your own money buying votes when the government can do it for you?

[anterian]

With educated users this could be a good move, with economically illiterate people this is a very foolish move. It is similar to the previous initiative by Thaksin to make cheap loans to people to buy their homes, in my village there are around 20 empty houses (about 10%), where people could not keep up payments, defaulted and fled. Now they are toxic assets held by the bank.

It is clear that the people who introduce these schemes to help the poor simply do not understand the psychology of the poor.

Perhaps the fact that "the BAAC will closely monitor the credit usage." may make a difference, we shall see.

I couldn't disagree more. These people ABSOLUTELY understand the psychology of the poor, that's why they take their cut on the front end. The mistake in your thinking is to believe those people were well intentioned.

a predictable response, never credit anyone with good intentions unless they wear a Democrat shirt. Cynicism is a useful tool but it easily becomes a habit.

[anterian]

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

As opposed to knee-jerk negativity about a Government program from those who are agenized to do so, I inquired what is the "one" good thing about this particular program.

Obviously a program such as this was not created in a vacuum, and there was some solid rationale, beyond bald politics as this Poster suggests.

Several advantages were mentioned, the primary one being the issue of were credit originates.

For the many farmers who don't have the money in a pre-emptive manner, they buy on credit now, provided by the merchants. Credit that is provided at unfavorable rates and unfavorable terms.

This program releases the Farmer from such arrangements. It gives them farmer-friendly credit access, with heavy emphasis and controls on the CC being used for their singular agriculture defined and intended purpose, as referenced in this article.

Bottom line, this does not affect farmer indebtedness up or down, just its' source.

I guess the question should be why are farmers in such debt? It would seem on the surface that Thailand values it rural heritage (which is understandable) but these small hold farms are simply not viable economically as the costs (rent, fertilizers, equipment etc) compared to what it takes to grow rice on a 5 rai plot compared to the wholesale price of rice paddy gives a very small profit margin (if any) for a lot of hard work. Simply propping up the rice farmers with state subsidies (which is what this credit card basically is) results in debt and unproductive farming practices.

Clearly Thailand sells a lot of rice,(and someone makes a lot of money) but the farming structure (thousands of small family managed plots) means it is from the farmers point of view very difficult to survive financially. Ultimately this form of farming will disappear. Credit cards, state subsidies just prolong the agony of the farmer

A sensible comment makes a change from all the emotional bickering.

[cdmtdm]

With educated users this could be a good move, with economically illiterate people this is a very foolish move. It is similar to the previous initiative by Thaksin to make cheap loans to people to buy their homes, in my village there are around 20 empty houses (about 10%), where people could not keep up payments, defaulted and fled. Now they are toxic assets held by the bank.

It is clear that the people who introduce these schemes to help the poor simply do not understand the psychology of the poor.

Perhaps the fact that "the BAAC will closely monitor the credit usage." may make a difference, we shall see.

where is your village ?

[lannarebirth]

With educated users this could be a good move, with economically illiterate people this is a very foolish move. It is similar to the previous initiative by Thaksin to make cheap loans to people to buy their homes, in my village there are around 20 empty houses (about 10%), where people could not keep up payments, defaulted and fled. Now they are toxic assets held by the bank.

It is clear that the people who introduce these schemes to help the poor simply do not understand the psychology of the poor.

Perhaps the fact that "the BAAC will closely monitor the credit usage." may make a difference, we shall see.

I couldn't disagree more. These people ABSOLUTELY understand the psychology of the poor, that's why they take their cut on the front end. The mistake in your thinking is to believe those people were well intentioned.

a predictable response, never credit anyone with good intentions unless they wear a Democrat shirt. Cynicism is a useful tool but it easily becomes a habit.

Where did I ever say anything about the Democrats? These people are THIEVES and I've too much respect for your intelligence to suggest you don't know that in your heart of hearts. My recollection is you've been here awhile. This is a RERUN of a huge failure of a former policy.

[anterian]

With educated users this could be a good move, with economically illiterate people this is a very foolish move. It is similar to the previous initiative by Thaksin to make cheap loans to people to buy their homes, in my village there are around 20 empty houses (about 10%), where people could not keep up payments, defaulted and fled. Now they are toxic assets held by the bank.

It is clear that the people who introduce these schemes to help the poor simply do not understand the psychology of the poor.

Perhaps the fact that "the BAAC will closely monitor the credit usage." may make a difference, we shall see.

where is your village ?

I'm not sure of the relevance but the far northwest corner of Nonthaburi.

[pimay11]

Free "i-Pads" (generic one)...credit cards... maybe a free cell phone next. What do the rest of the province people get living outside of Isaan??? (nothing)

They are eligible for a tax rebate if they purchase a new 5 million baht villa.

.

Any idea who might own a development company that is currently building 5 million baht villas? Give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

Edited March 12, 2012 by pimay11

[anterian]

With educated users this could be a good move, with economically illiterate people this is a very foolish move. It is similar to the previous initiative by Thaksin to make cheap loans to people to buy their homes, in my village there are around 20 empty houses (about 10%), where people could not keep up payments, defaulted and fled. Now they are toxic assets held by the bank.

It is clear that the people who introduce these schemes to help the poor simply do not understand the psychology of the poor.

Perhaps the fact that "the BAAC will closely monitor the credit usage." may make a difference, we shall see.

I couldn't disagree more. These people ABSOLUTELY understand the psychology of the poor, that's why they take their cut on the front end. The mistake in your thinking is to believe those people were well intentioned.

a predictable response, never credit anyone with good intentions unless they wear a Democrat shirt. Cynicism is a useful tool but it easily becomes a habit.

Where did I ever say anything about the Democrats? These people are THIEVES and I've too much respect for your intelligence to suggest you don't know that in your heart of hearts. My recollection is you've been here awhile. This is a RERUN of a huge failure of a former policy.

Well we agree that ALL politicians are thieves or the associates of thieves:) The question is can some of them at times also be altruistic. I think the answer is a guarded yes. It is rather like making merit by donating to a Wat, this simple act has many layers of ramification, particularly if done publicly. The underlying motive is naturally personal benefit, both in the afterlife and kudos in the community. It may even salve one's conscience.

A good dairyman makes money from his milk herd of cows, he gets the most milk and makes the most money when his cows are happy and contented. The rich and the poor have a similar symbiotic relationship, I think Thaksin was one of the first elite to really understand this, unfortunately he did not understand his cows.

[billd766]

Another day older and deeper in debt...

Oh Lordy don't you call me, cos I can't go,

I owe my soul to the government sho

[CalgaryII]

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

Spot on! The previous administration had a program to buy back (at low interest) the high debt farmers incurred under PM Thaksin, AND had a program that would reimburse farmers if they lost money on their season's crop. Those abolished by PM Shinawatra, following in Thaksin's footsteps, getting all the farmers back deep in debt with this scheme.

Wrong!

Debt ebbs and flows with Farmers, and that is a fact.

Economically the country thrived under Thaksin, and they were better off than ever.

When the coup occurred, everything went to ratshit.

The coupists were not renowned for governing and economic management marvels

Rice prices diminshed amongst other factors.

Then when Mr. Abhisit was hoisted into place, he did introduce a debt repayment scheme...........not focussed on the farmers, but on the money lenders. The rich people in other words.

Farmers without sufficient colateral were also brushed aside, and received nothing.

This CC program is focussed on the farmers, not the lenders and merchants.

This speaks volumes.

Edited March 12, 2012 by CalgaryII

[lannarebirth]

I couldn't disagree more. These people ABSOLUTELY understand the psychology of the poor, that's why they take their cut on the front end. The mistake in your thinking is to believe those people were well intentioned.

a predictable response, never credit anyone with good intentions unless they wear a Democrat shirt. Cynicism is a useful tool but it easily becomes a habit.

Where did I ever say anything about the Democrats? These people are THIEVES and I've too much respect for your intelligence to suggest you don't know that in your heart of hearts. My recollection is you've been here awhile. This is a RERUN of a huge failure of a former policy.

Well we agree that ALL politicians are thieves or the associates of thieves:) The question is can some of them at times also be altruistic. I think the answer is a guarded yes. It is rather like making merit by donating to a Wat, this simple act has many layers of ramification, particularly if done publicly. The underlying motive is naturally personal benefit, both in the afterlife and kudos in the community. It may even salve one's conscience.

A good dairyman makes money from his milk herd of cows, he gets the most milk and makes the most money when his cows are happy and contented. The rich and the poor have a similar symbiotic relationship, I think Thaksin was one of the first elite to really understand this, unfortunately he did not understand his cows.

Well, since karma is borne of INTENTION I doubt the guy at the wat looking for personal benefit or the borrower are going to be getting what they're looking for.

[stevenl]

Anybody notice the date the cards will be handed out?

[Colin Yai]

"Whom the gods would destroy ,they first make mad" Euripides , this "brainwave" is going to cause no end of grief to the very people it's intended to help , along with the other "brain wave" the Rice pledging scheme IMHO is a trip into fantasyland ,maybe the better word is "collective insanity" ,the poor uneducated farmers are in for a hard time 6/12 months down the line, I live in a small village 60 kms south of Buriram and my wife assures me there is not an adult who lives here that is not in debt already ,some quite heavily I may add.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Colin Yai

[jonclark]

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

Spot on! The previous administration had a program to buy back (at low interest) the high debt farmers incurred under PM Thaksin, AND had a program that would reimburse farmers if they lost money on their season's crop. Those abolished by PM Shinawatra, following in Thaksin's footsteps, getting all the farmers back deep in debt with this scheme.

Wrong!

Debt ebbs and flows with Farmers, and that is a fact.

Economically the country thrived under Thaksin, and they were better off than ever.

When the coup occurred, everything went to ratshit.

The coupists were not renowned for governing and economic management marvels

Rice prices diminshed amongst other factors.

Then when Mr. Abhisit was hoisted into place, he did introduce a debt repayment scheme...........not focussed on the farmers, but on the money lenders. The rich people in other words.

Farmers without sufficient colateral were also brushed aside, and received nothing.

This CC program is focussed on the farmers, not the lenders and merchants.

This speaks volumes.

Glad to see you acknowledge the failing of the PPP - taksins proxies (who were in power after the coup, but prior to abhisit), in your sweeping statement.

Edited March 12, 2012 by jonclark

[yoshiwara]

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

Spot on! The previous administration had a program to buy back (at low interest) the high debt farmers incurred under PM Thaksin, AND had a program that would reimburse farmers if they lost money on their season's crop. Those abolished by PM Shinawatra, following in Thaksin's footsteps, getting all the farmers back deep in debt with this scheme.

Wrong!

Debt ebbs and flows with Farmers, and that is a fact.

Economically the country thrived under Thaksin, and they were better off than ever.

When the coup occurred, everything went to ratshit.

The coupists were not renowned for governing and economic management marvels

Rice prices diminshed amongst other factors.

Then when Mr. Abhisit was hoisted into place, he did introduce a debt repayment scheme...........not focussed on the farmers, but on the money lenders. The rich people in other words.

Farmers without sufficient colateral were also brushed aside, and received nothing.

This CC program is focussed on the farmers, not the lenders and merchants.

This speaks volumes.

If there is no collateral then there is the suggestion that the loans cannot be recovered by recourse to the borrower's assets. Is that the case?

As for 'focus' that is a meaningless comment. The loan has to originate from somewhere (the lender) and the risk of default assumed by someone.

The merchants will of course not only benefit but get guaranteed payment presumably.

The hilarious part of all of this is that Thaksin has a new capitalist model for the masses. Stuffing his own pockets doesn't quite fit the model, but hey-ho.

[lovelaos]

Happy New Year to the Isaan farmers

[Colin Yai]

Happy New Year to the Isaan farmers

"Forgive them Oh Lord for they know not what they do".

[tlansford]

Poor farmers do not have the skill to manage wealth. Not that they are stupid, but just lack of experience.

Give credit card, they will just go shopping happy, like buy AIS mobile phone (while their land line is fine), fly AirAsia (while the bus/train is free), go stay in hotel like SC park (while relatives house is fine), etc. There is a conflict of interest here, because Yingluck give out credit card, to poor farmers, and in return some (not all) go to spend on the businesses that Yingluck family own. Ask me if there is a hidden agenda? Sama same when Thaksin give credit to Burma govt, they came to buy phone/satellite services from AIS.

people with money have the same problem... living beyond their means.

This is an alternative source of credit. It's an option. Better than a loan shark.

Can certainly be abused - any credit can.

[lannarebirth]

Poor farmers do not have the skill to manage wealth. Not that they are stupid, but just lack of experience.

Give credit card, they will just go shopping happy, like buy AIS mobile phone (while their land line is fine), fly AirAsia (while the bus/train is free), go stay in hotel like SC park (while relatives house is fine), etc. There is a conflict of interest here, because Yingluck give out credit card, to poor farmers, and in return some (not all) go to spend on the businesses that Yingluck family own. Ask me if there is a hidden agenda? Sama same when Thaksin give credit to Burma govt, they came to buy phone/satellite services from AIS.

people with money have the same problem... living beyond their means.

This is an alternative source of credit. It's an option. Better than a loan shark.

Can certainly be abused - any credit can.

No it isn't better than a loan shark. Who do you think they go to to pay this loan back? Usurious nterest on interest, but with their land hanging in the balance. Thailand moves forward when the percent of people working in the agricultural sector moves down. It was about 80% in the late 70's and it is less than 50% today. Stealing the land from those people however isn't the way to do it. Better it happen generationally.

[pimay11]

Poor farmers do not have the skill to manage wealth. Not that they are stupid, but just lack of experience.

Give credit card, they will just go shopping happy, like buy AIS mobile phone (while their land line is fine), fly AirAsia (while the bus/train is free), go stay in hotel like SC park (while relatives house is fine), etc. There is a conflict of interest here, because Yingluck give out credit card, to poor farmers, and in return some (not all) go to spend on the businesses that Yingluck family own. Ask me if there is a hidden agenda? Sama same when Thaksin give credit to Burma govt, they came to buy phone/satellite services from AIS.

people with money have the same problem... living beyond their means.

This is an alternative source of credit. It's an option. Better than a loan shark.

Can certainly be abused - any credit can.

As if PTP cares anything about the farmers or the poor.

[Bakseedaa]

Indebt them all again? Unbelievable.......

How to keep an uneducated majority of voters under control and fear!

As opposed to knee-jerk negativity about a Government program from those who are agenized to do so, I inquired what is the "one" good thing about this particular program.

Obviously a program such as this was not created in a vacuum, and there was some solid rationale, beyond bald politics as this Poster suggests.

Several advantages were mentioned, the primary one being the issue of were credit originates.

For the many farmers who don't have the money in a pre-emptive manner, they buy on credit now, provided by the merchants. Credit that is provided at unfavorable rates and unfavorable terms.

This program releases the Farmer from such arrangements. It gives them farmer-friendly credit access, with heavy emphasis and controls on the CC being used for their singular agriculture defined and intended purpose, as referenced in this article.

Bottom line, this does not affect farmer indebtedness up or down, just its' source.

Which Banana boat did you come up the Chao Praya in....???? you were too long living with those Native Indians up there on the Rockies...But, .. credit where credit is due.... Greece..!

[RichardinBKK]

I am not sure I have a solution to lack of resources for farmers. I do know I come from a country where many, many people with good educations have lost everything, suffer from the fear of the next phone call from bill collectors and can not pay the interest on their line of credit. It was once a rich and powerful land, and drove much of the world's economic engine. Now, about 37% of the nation's debt is held by China, and current event suggest the house of cards is facing gale force winds.

Yes, I am referring to America. Trust me, education, financial savvy...etc...all go out the window when "free money" comes a calling. It is just human behavior. I am not an expert on Thai culture, but it does seem many "live in the present" and are not be too concerned with what may happen next.

It is hard for me to imagine this will turn out well. I am a bit concerned, since I converted all my dollars to the Baht, or as they will call it in two years... toilet paper.

[nahkit]

Poor farmers do not have the skill to manage wealth. Not that they are stupid, but just lack of experience.

Give credit card, they will just go shopping happy, like buy AIS mobile phone (while their land line is fine), fly AirAsia (while the bus/train is free), go stay in hotel like SC park (while relatives house is fine), etc. There is a conflict of interest here, because Yingluck give out credit card, to poor farmers, and in return some (not all) go to spend on the businesses that Yingluck family own. Ask me if there is a hidden agenda? Sama same when Thaksin give credit to Burma govt, they came to buy phone/satellite services from AIS.

I know this is off-topic but why does Sparebox2 post in pidgin english when its obvious from this post today on a different thread that he is fluent?

"Posted Today, 12:19

I don't think you are a petroleum engineer or geologist.

Some water based mud may be used, but are all accounted for and contained. They are all removed after drilling."

[belg]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dontt you love the thai logic

credit cards for farmes, taxi drivers...

while most farang, without WP, with hundrerd thousands of bahts on their saving accounts get denied

what a wonderfull world

[Reasonableman]

Yes, it is worrying. It has the stench of sub-prime mortgage about it. People given credit they could not afford, then losing everything when they were foreclosed and jobless.

There may also be some disturbing parallels with the 1997 Tom Yum Gung crisis, with a growth in credit that turned sour and became massive bad debt, clogging and dragging down the Thai financial system and the economy. Moving that immense residual 1997 debt to a less conspicuous place, so that you can borrow more money for flood remediation, etc., does not make that long-term debt suddenly go away. It must still be financed, and it is against that background that debt is being increased even further.The 1997 debt repayment estimate was what, another 27 years (?) http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Depositors-to-bear-the-brunt-of-the-legacy-debt-fr-30173275.html

Continued large-scale borrowing and domestic expenditure compound and exacerbate the problem. An overvalued baht, high levels of debt to service, increasing cost of living (CPI), the economic repercussions of the flood and political instability, coupled with unrestrained government spending, may be taking us in the same direction as 1997, albeit via a slightly different route. While sympathizing with the plight of the rural poor, one must ask whether this is the right time for the government to be infusing more credit-->debt into the economy. http://www.adb.org/documents/books/rising_to_the_challenge/thailand/thai-mac.pdf

[pimay11]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dontt you love the thai logic

credit cards for farmes, taxi drivers...

while most farang, without WP, with hundrerd thousands of bahts on their saving accounts get denied

what a wonderfull world

Exactly. My neighbor from Italy moved here two months ago, transfered 30 million Baht into his Thai bank account. Last week he applied for a credit card and was denied. The reason "you don't have a salary". He has a Thai wife and one child by her plus a retirement visa. Go figure.

Edited March 12, 2012 by pimay11

[TackyToo]

+++Latest business opportunity+++Latest business opportunity+++Latest business opportunity+++

Sell the latest hot items of our "We love Thai farmers Package" for distribution at local markets in Isan directly from your Pickup Truck. Our sensational offer includes:

• One 56 inch LCD TV
  
• A decorative gift box Lao Khao (12 bottles premium brand)
  
• 12 DVD ( collector's edition of Thailand's funniest Katoey movies)
  

Recommended retail price 49.500,00 Thb (unbeatable margin for vendors)

[CalgaryII]

Poor farmers do not have the skill to manage wealth. Not that they are stupid, but just lack of experience.

Give credit card, they will just go shopping happy, like buy AIS mobile phone (while their land line is fine), fly AirAsia (while the bus/train is free), go stay in hotel like SC park (while relatives house is fine), etc. There is a conflict of interest here, because Yingluck give out credit card, to poor farmers, and in return some (not all) go to spend on the businesses that Yingluck family own. Ask me if there is a hidden agenda? Sama same when Thaksin give credit to Burma govt, they came to buy phone/satellite services from AIS.

people with money have the same problem... living beyond their means.

This is an alternative source of credit. It's an option. Better than a loan shark.

Can certainly be abused - any credit can.

As if PTP cares anything about the farmers or the poor.

Electoral results suggest otherwise.