Crackdown On Land Owned By Foreign Residents

[Nisa]

Get real guys. Isn't that the Thai way we all know already? You sell something to a farrang 'cause he pays double the price as a local and then you find a tricky lawyer to get the sold item back.

At least, now they finally have the guts to do it the "official" way.

They hate farrangs! You are only welcomed to leave your money (preferable right at the airport on a transit) and go home.

I just wonder, are they really that arrogant (stupid?) to believe they can chase away tourists, foreign expertise and investment and survive in the "Thai Light Zone"?

Yes, they are that stupid.

Based on Thailand being one of the top tourist destinations with steadily increasing numbers ... sounds like it is not the Thais who are stupid.

What's the definition of "Top tourist destination"? If I go by numbers of people in 2010 (excluding transit at airport), Thailand came in around 15 million tourists.

That's compared to France with 76 million, USA with 60-odd million, China with 56 million.....

(skipping many.....)

Turkey had 27 million and Mexico had 22 million......

But if you meant highest number in ASEAN countries..... Yes, ok, you're perfectly correct, but shouldn't Thailand be thinking further than that?

Cheers

Is it really to the point of not being able to honestly recognize facts if they don't bash Thailand or Thais?

Of near 200 countries in the World Thailand rates in the top 15 for International Tourism and or 3rd in all the Asia Pacific Region. Clearly there should be no arguing it is considered a top tourist destinations and that the number of arriving international) tourists .continues to trend up ... not down as so many people wish or want to believe.

[dude007]

same old story... We're getting so used to this that its starts to get boring. The crackdown on schoolgirls in short skirts and with long hair is a much better story! Or the billions of Thai Baht stolen from a flooded house belonging to a MP, that he doesn't know frome where all this money is coming and pretending that his political rivals put it there...

The land story is an old bla bla... Give the farangs 10 more years and no more land will be left that belongs to Thais...

[arrowsdawdle]

The time to worry might be when they say, "Okay, we changed the law, feel free to buy land in Thailand" Twenty years down the road comes an announcement that, "In 2012 an unconstitutional law allowed foreigners to buy land in Thailand. Effective immediately, this law is struck down and all foreign owned property in Thailand is now under the onwership and stewardship of the Thai government, and such property must be evacuated immediately unless proper lease arrangements have been approved by the government."

Sound incredible? Not in a coup d'jour and constitution d'jour society. Changing laws in LOS takes less time that whipping up som tam.

[yummypizza]

Reminds Me of the G Mods and their odious and subjective nannyisms ... this post is about foreign ownership of land in T-land.....OK! I own 100 rai in a northern Province... I just changed My last Name so there,....no problem

Oh dear, you may just have created one ...lol

[stylishgolf]

He said if this situation was "unsolved", it could lead to later generations of Thais having no land to live on.

And who is selling the land to the foreigners? Oh, that'll be the thai people then!!

[webfact]

Over 100 million rai of land secretly owned by foreign nationals

BANGKOK, 13 March 2012 (NNT) - The Senate Standing Committee on Economy, Commerce and Industry has held a seminar on foreign property ownership in Thailand while citing the growing number of Thais holding lands on behalf of foreign nationals as its main concern.

At the Senate committee’s seminar, which took place at Government House, Ombudsman Sriracha Charoenpanich revealed two main concerns threatening national security – the first being drug abuse, which is an issue undermining the productivity of the nation's human resources in the long run, and the second being the rising trend of foreign land ownership through Thai nominees.

According to reports, one-third of properties in Thailand, estimated to cover 100 million rai of land, are secretly owned by foreign nationals. Mr Sriracha said the illegal acquisition of land through loopholes in the law has long been practiced as it can increase foreign investments and stimulate the economy.

Due to the 1997 economic crisis and the subsequent downturn in local property market, the law was amended so that foreigners with a capital of at least 1 million dollars can obtain a special right to own lands. The Ombudsman elaborated that 90 percent of beach-front properties in Rayong, Prachuap Khiri Khan and Chon Buri now belong to foreign investors.

He said that foreign land ownership can be achieved through various means, such as marriage with Thai nationals and establishment of a domestic company. Legally, the total foreign ownership of a company cannot exceed 49%, but in practice, it is often found that more than 51 percent of the shares belong to Thai nominees appointed by foreigners.

Mr Sriracha thus recommended an amendment to the law controlling foreign real estate ownership as well as an increase in property tax to drive up the use and the value of land. He also added that collaboration between the Anti-Money Laundering Office and the Department of Special Investigation is needed to solve the issue in a sustainable manner.

-- NNT 2012-03-13

[Reasonableman]

two main concerns threatening national security

In Australia, we used to be kept paranoid of Asians by The Domino Effect (Vietnam War) and the Red Chinese Hoards Marching South. Oh, nearly forgot all those Muslim Indonesians, as well, hopping en masse into little boats to invade the North. So pathetic.

So this is Thailand's answer for Westerners?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Reasonableman

[pepi2005]

Xenophobic propaganda:

The Yingluck government must have problems.

[saengsureeya]

Problem is most probably the fact that a few new-wealthy Thais were planning on buying land in Hua Hin, Pattaya and Phuket, but that they found the owners to be foreign.

Of course, those losers do have connections and those connections have connections again ending up at Sriracha's desk who can not do otherwise then to investigate the matter.......come up with some daft conclusion.......and rest the case.

Besides that, I guess that not one retiree, married to a Thai and living happily on their piece of Thai soil need to be afraid.

[MANICMINER]

It cracks me up when foreigners come to Thailand, open up dodgy companies to buy property or put leases/usufructs on land deeds, and then p?ss their pants every time there is an announcement of a crackdown on foreign ownership. What a way to live your life - an investment is meant to give you security and peace of mind. Foreigners buying property need to know this: Eventually, the Thai wife will get your property; if the wife doesn't get it, the lawyers will; if the lawyers don't get it, the Thai government will. Don't invest more than you are prepared to lose!

[madmitch]

I've read the initial article and can't be bothered to read the comments as I probably read them all before, the last time this crackdown was announced about a year ago.

Does anyone know anyone who lost their property or who was deported last time?

I'll save this comment and post it next time this same crackdown is announced.

[yumidesign]

this article is nonsense from first word to last, e g

Sriracha called for a limit on land owned by foreign residents and said the land tax should be hiked to promote the use of land, although doing this might be difficult, as the rich would object.

and that Thais would have no land to live on - do these people hear what they are saying

[saengsureeya]

"Legally, the total foreign ownership of a company cannot exceed 49%, but in practice, it is often found that more than 51 percent of the shares belong to Thai nominees appointed by foreigners."

What else should they do.........leave 51% of the company in the hands of total strangers?

[belg]

what is wrong with farang owning land ? poor farmers cannot buy anyway + farang cannot play farmer...

ASEAN in 2015, can we hope, we farang who invest and spend heavily in this country would get some BASIC RIGHTS in this country ???

I guess not

Rich chinese thai elite want a majority of thai people to remain poor and stupid, and specially, they don't want anything to change as everything is just perfect, for them it is anyway

[Docno]

Second class Citizens again....

Again??? Dont you mean still!!!!

You can't be a second-class citizen if you're not a citizen in the first place.... What do you expect?

[personchester]

I wonder how this would effect those of us that are married to thais with children and own our primary residence that is obviously in the name of the Thai spouse. Certainly if all the paperwork was done and filed correctly then no laws were broken right? No intention to break or circumvent any laws either.

Marriage to a Thai woman legalises the purchase, children play no role in this matter.

Except.......in the last crackdown from a couple of years ago, the government said if the wife purchased the house in her name, she had to prove the origin of the money to buy the house. If a foreigner/ husband provided the money, then somehow it became fraud.

Yes, I recall this too, but the "land office" that does finalise the purchase did not, (and still does not) ask any questions regarding the Thai wife's financial funding for the purchase, thus this can not, and will not be regarded as fraud.

As a result the ownership of the property goes to the foreigner who provided the money, but he must sell the property within one year, should the sale fail, then according to the system the "state" takes on the ownership.

Selling a house here is not easy, it can take a long time, and well over a year, fortunately this legal system is not activated, and the Thai wife remains the owner, but it might be possible that the "land office" will in future make the necessary requirement to establish the financial purchase funding, and if foreign, then no sale will take place, this is a bonus for the foreigner, he can keep his cash and just pay house rental, but the Thai wife has a great disadvantage, she will not become a sole property owner with all the potential benefits after a divorce.

[Thai at Heart]

I love the "secretly" statement. 51% of the shares are in Thai names, presumably it only takes a trip to the BDB to unveil these dastardly Thai's who are more than happy to have their names put on shares. Or did the dastardly foreigners twist their arms or put a gun to their heads to get them to sign. He is highlighting a completely LEGAL business structure.

It does beg the question, what would the seaside areas of Thailand look like if these companies hadn't invested? Some Thai designed paradise of tourism heaven? Shame they can't take over the municipalities 51:49 also.

[Docno]

Another newspaper (which cannot be mentioned here <cough>BP<cough>) included a reaction from a property consultant who said the figures were impossible. He said it's closer to only 5% of land being owned by foreigners. This was based on the logic that residential areas account for only 10% of the total landmass and that only a handful of more rural provinces attract foreigners in any real numbers.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Docno

[Geratul]

Foreigner owns land? hahahaha... are they fooling themselves here? Even when I can buy land I don't want it!

In the last european elections (how many people?) they asked if you want to emigrate to which country europeans will go... well there we come (top 6): 1. New Zealand; 2. Australia; 3. Canada; 4. USA; 5. Malaysia; 6. Singapore. Thailand was choosen on place number 17!

Why Thailand so low? because the language problems and the complicated paperwork is for europeans always very important, but in Thailand always a mess.

So what I did? I have a nice wonderful house in Malaysia and once in a while when I like to change atmosphere I come to Thailand 3 weeks and to be honest for me personally enough also Land of Smile I hear many times, true... when they earn money of course

Investment? never in this kind of countries. The best is Japan and that's what I did 25 years ago. Perfect for investing, so skip (let me be friendly) the not always honest countries, because it will always cost you money and they change the regulations almost every hour.

Furthermore enjoy Thailand but keep your money in your wallet

[bendix]

Isn't there some law somewhere in this country about spouting b*******s?

If there was, I fear for 90% of the members of this esteemed forum.

[marioc]

ALMOst began to care.

It is an absolutely FALSE statement that foreigners own 1/3 of thai land.

Completely, and utterly false. 0 Statistics to back this up.

1/3 of people reading this article probably believe it when they read that too.

Correct......I think just "same same"...nonsense....just words without a proper investigation....

[chasggg]

This foreign ownership issue is a furphy. Anyone with a modicum of economic savvy knows that foreign investment is always good. Land of course is emotive, but in the words of a famous premier of Queensland, "They can't take it home with them". At the time the Japanese were buying huge tracts of Queensland at grossly inflated prices. They did their &lt;deleted&gt; and contributed enormously to the economc development of the state. Playing the xenophobia card is always good politics, but doesn't mean anything.

Great word.........Furphy......!!!

[Xonax]

What about all of the Chinese who own everything else and pretty much run the place? Or are they "foreigners" too?

And what about a foreigners from Montenegro, Uganda or Dubai owning land in Thailand?

[pisico]

Another bullshit story. We are not allowed to own land so all the land 'owned by foreigners' is actually owned by Thais, be it nominees or people like jay and me. The Thais still own it.

The Amity Treaty enables American citizens to own up to 1 rai of land. It has not been modified or annulled to date.

The stats doesn't come from 1 million Americans owning land here.

It might come from over-estimations and fear-mongering...

Exactly! Xenophobia perhaps?

[millwall_fan]

What about all of the Chinese who own everything else and pretty much run the place? Or are they "foreigners" too?

If you include the Thai-Chinese as foreigners, then foreigners own 99% of Thailand

Nisa, many westerners legally married (registered their marriage) the Thai woman they love and now have children. The husbands are permanent residents of Thailand, and have been for more than a decade. Because they married a westerner, their Thai wives can no longer buy land. The children, all Thai citizens, cannot live in a normal home on land owned by their parents, and which can be passed to them. If the parents never married, the "wife" (de facto) can still buy land, but the legal status of the kids is unclear. So, foreign husband with Thai wife, and their Thai children, are deprived of their right to own land and a home on that land, and are forced to live a second-class life in a condo with no garden for kids to play in and have a normal childhood. This is grossly unfair and discriminatory towards Thais. It should be unconstitutional to discriminate in this way against citizens of one's own country, IMO.

I don't know if this is 100% correct. I'm married and when we bought this house I had to sign papers that were submitted to the land office when the land deed was changed over to my wife's name stating that all the money used to purchase the land was hers and I have no claim to it. Her name is listed as the owner of the land. At the same time we also registered a 30 year lease that I have on the land (small taxes paid) so my name as well is listed on the land dead and the lease holder. She clearly owns the land but cannot go selling it while I hold a lease on the land. From what I've been told, no lease in Thailand is valid for more than 1 year UNLESS it's registered at the land office. When you register the lease you also pay the taxes on the lease payments for the entire lease term (in this case 30 years).

All the lease papers in the world wouldn't stop her getting a massive loan against the property without your knowledge, if she was so minded.

[Crushdepth]

Some countries have a word for these unwashed foreigners with tonnes of money. We call them 'investors'.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

This looks to me that this so-called crackdown is 100% to deflect the issue of illegal chanote and illegal public land grabs by people of influence like alledgedly,a Past Governor of Phuket.

It is obvious that these thousands of rai with illegal Chanote's are at the moment in the hands of powerful people who behave like they are above the law.

Beach front land in Phuket is at a premium and a lot of it is held illegally by these people.

The Government and the Royal Thai Police know who they are yet nothing is ever done about it. Same as the big issue of resorts built on public land in Kao Yai National Park .How many have been demolished? No nothing will happen to many Baht changing hands, It is the Thai way , when things start to get hot ,Blame the Foriegners..............phupaman

[finnomick1]

And of course, there will be a crackdown on all the Chinese ( Thais ) who are buying all that land for rubber plantation the produce of which will be exported to China.... I can see the might of Thailand taking on the Chinese........not haha

[23962323]

Personally I would be more concerned of events of land/house/ wife and dog that is occurring. Knowing of 3 events one reported in the BP.the farang unwittingly signing up for another 12 months in paradise gets kicked out with 7 days notice,no return.

In theory anybody ,but anybody who took a shine to your house/ wife/pick up /dog could for a largish backhander at immigration get you on your bike. Better than the jet ski scam,much more lucrative and about to kick off I'm sure

[Thai at Heart]

And of course, there will be a crackdown on all the Chinese ( Thais ) who are buying all that land for rubber plantation the produce of which will be exported to China.... I can see the might of Thailand taking on the Chinese........not haha

Yeah, but that is clearly in the national interest. lol