What'S So Great About Thailand Anyway?

[xandreu]

Reading ThaiVisa, it's clear that most people fall into one of two camps. There are those that worship the ground Thai's walk on, violently back lashing against those that dare critisise any aspect of Thai life with a "If you don't like it, go home", and there are those that, well, don't like it, but continue to critisise it and refuse to go home.

I've been visiting LOS for the past 12 years now, and have just spent the past year actually living here, but I'll soon be heading home.

Basically, I have become bored of Thailand. I don't blame Thailand or it's people or it's culture. It's certainly a fascinating place to visit, and I don't regret my time here for a minute, but for the past few months I've been asking myself what's so great about the place that would make me want to stay on a permanent basis. Nice weather? There are many countries that offer that. Low cost of living? That used to be the case, not anymore, and it's only going to get worse. Easy going people who still show respect to others? Try crossing a road on foot. Any type of road. Anywhere in Thailand. You'll soon see how much respect Thai's have for their fellow man.

I don't want this to sound like a Thai bashing post. I despise people who write those. And I fully agree with people who say "If you don't like it, go home". Which is why I am. Like most people, I fell in love with Thailand as a holiday destination. I was fully aware when I moved here that I was no longer on holiday, and this was not a holiday destination anymore. I knew that I'd eventually start to see sides of Thailand that one doesn't normally see when holidaying here, and I thought I was prepared for that, which I was to a large extent, but now that I have seen it, I'm left wondering why I should stay.

I've traveled all over Thailand in my year here, from the big cities like Bangkok and Chiang Mai (I lived in Chiang Mai for 6 months and explored a lot of the North while I was there) to the smaller towns. I'll admit I haven't ventured too far South, but I've seen enough of Thai culture to be amazed by it and I've met a lot of very nice Thai's (and Falangs) along the way. But as for settling here, I have to ask myself why, and I can't think of a convincing argument.

The people of Bangkok tend to see me as just another farang. Unless they can make a quick buck out of me, they're not interested. The people of Chiang Mai, most of the time, were too stuck up their own <deleted> to even acknowledge that I existed. I often got the feeling that they wanted to say "we don't want or need your sort here", no matter how friendly and polite I acted. The people of smaller towns and cities tend to look at me with a mixture of bewilderment and fear. Almost as if, where the horror stories of western youth featured the bogeyman, Thai horror stories featured the evil Falang.

It's not just about how I'm treated by strangers. It's a lot of other things as well. Thailand is most definitely for Thai people and nobody else. That's not a criticism. I actually admire the way they keep a firm grip on it. I wish the UK was the same. But it doesn't do anything to make me feel welcomed. I have always felt like an outsider here, because I am. I know I am. I don't look like them, I don't speak like them, and I have no desire to abandon my roots and be like them. Some things don't have to be said, but Thai's seem to make a point of saying it. Over and over. Falang...Falang...

It seems to me that a life here would always be fragile and insecure. Thai law is vague at the best of times, and the law regarding immigration is deliberately so. Permanent residency is like gold dust here. I could settle here for many years, build up a business, employ several Thai's and be the pillar of the community, but all it would take would be a wrong look, a wrong word said, not enough respect shown to a Thai official and I'd be on the next plane out of here. No "but"s... No "I want to see my lawyer"... No "I have rights"... It would be a case of bye bye...

So, I'm leaving. I have every intention of returning, but only as a holiday. I intend to carry on looking around the world for a country where I would fit in. I may find it. I may not. I certainly don't have any intention of staying in the UK for any longer than I have to. I may find in years to come, that Thailand was indeed the best country, despite it's shortcomings, but I'm prepared to go looking none the less. Life's an adventure...

Just some thinking out loud...

[richard_smith237]

You make many valid points.

I suspect most people who remain here do so because they have grown some roots here with friendships and families.

Some can’t afford to go home.

Some find many of the things you are not happy about here to be the same in their own countries.

For most I guess the grass is still slightly greener in Thailand.

[Tonto21]

Hi ‘xandreu’

Some people, (most) never find there utopia, I hope you find yours, no pun intended……….But stop looking and start living, sounds woolly I know but, our lives are a journey, not a destination, you may not know it but your life is richer from being in Thailand, more than you realize.

Best of luck with where you end up.

[pattayadingo]

Thailand works for some but not for others. You obviously find it does not work for you.

For me any country has it pitfalls and downsides as well as upsides. Thailand still rings my bells and until we have to leave, I am currently content.

Best of with finding your Utopia. Half the fun in life is in the searching

[theblether]

Good post, you expressed how you felt very well.

I think it is all down to the individual......I can't see myself ever staying in Thailand full time, there is too much to see elsewhere, however Thailand will always be there or thereabouts in my life.

Security of tenure, security of ownership, is always a major negative in regards to settling in Thailand, in that regard it's a big casino. I personally will never gamble the chips I worked all my life for in Thailand, never.

Other people throw the dice and win, and many lose. Up to them.

At the end of the day though, if I never saw Thailand again, the memories I have of the place are outstanding. Standing at Doi Tung Royal Residence this year and looking over the mountains to Burma is a memory I will never forget. Quite superb.

However we all have to plough our on furrow in life, you have decided you want to see more and I applaud you for that, as you are not leaving Thailand full of bitterness like too many other people do, your going to expand your horizons and make your way back in the future.

I would call that............a wonderful life

[wellred]

Last year was my 1st trip there and I will be back in a few months. I am still in the awe struck phase and am trying in earnst to move my life over there. I should probably heed your words as you speak from experience but despite that I still really want to live there.

[xandreu]

Last year was my 1st trip there and I will be back in a few months. I am still in the awe struck phase and am trying in earnst to move my life over there. I should probably heed your words as you speak from experience but despite that I still really want to live there.

I genuinely hope my words don't put you off coming. My attitude when I came out here was to stay for a while and see how it goes, and I'm glad I came, and I'm glad I came with that attitude. Many, many people come here and make a success out of it. My post was in no way a negative insight of Thailand or Thai culture. I was simply saying that it wasn't for me. But it is for many people, and I don't regret coming here for one minute. I've had a great time. I just don't think it's the place I personally want to settle. But I'd have to have come here and done what I did to have come to that conclusion. You may come to a different conclusion.

I'd say living in Thailand for a extensive period is always a positive experience. Just come with an attitude like mine, at least for the first year, before you make any final decisions. You'll enjoy your time here either way. But get to know the place before you put down any roots.

[chops]

Well, suits you I guess.

I find too many things about my "home" country unappealing to return. Like cold, overcast weather, fat women and the nanny state to name a few...

[xandreu]

Well, suits you I guess.

I find too many things about my "home" country unappealing to return. Like cold, overcast weather, fat women and the nanny state to name a few...

Your "home" country sounds a lot like mine, and I have no intention of staying there any longer than I have to. For me it's simply an ATM. Make a few deposits and withdraw enough to go exploring again...

[Ulysses G.]

You have a right to your opinion, but your take on Thailand and your experiences are definitely different from mine.

I will admit that after 20 years, the best thing about the country is still the easy access to attractive women and being flirted with constantly by pretty young things who would be horrified by an older fellow back home, but I take issue with your assertions that the cost of living here is not cheap. I am on a real budget right now and easily eat good, tasty, healthy food from restaurants every day for less than 200 baht. That is 6 dollars a day - which would be pretty much impossible in a Western country.

It is easy to find a clean, comfortable air con room with toilet for 5,000 baht in a safe neighborhood. Where can you find something like that for for $160 back home?

I ride a bicycle, so transportation is pretty much free, but a songteaw or even a taxi is not expensive when needed.

To me, it is the people who come here and expect maids and luxurious homes for next to nothing who think it is no longer cheap, but I never had any interest in that kind of lifestyle, so living here is a great deal for the money. If you do not need expensive cars and the newest editions of the latest electronic toys, you can live very well for very little. I will admit that Western food is not nearly as good as back home - I lived in San Francisco so was pretty spoiled - but in restaurants it is mostly less expensive than in a Western city and much better than when I first got here.

As far as the Thai people go, in general, I much prefer to be around them than foreigners. No, they do not all love me, but most are friendly and treat me pleasantly, which is all I need.

After 20 years, this is home and I want to stay, but IMO it has plenty of attractions for the fresh-off-the-boat newbies who are still coming in droves.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[IanForbes]

Although I agree with the OP on most of what he wrote, I'm firmly in the camp of Ulysses. I actually live almost free in Thailand. I have my television, internet and telephone turned off in Canada when I'm in thailand for 5 months of the year and it pays for my comfortable Thai hotel room 2 km from the heart of the city. I only eat two proper Thai meals a day and supplement that with fruit. My only expenses are entertainment. However, as first noted... I only spend 5 months in Thailand each year so I can treat it like a holiday. Of course, my whole life is a holiday so I'm not like the 80% of other people who actually have to turn up for work somewhere each day. My rose coloured glasses don't seem to be scratched after 15 years of coming here.

[carmine]

Very well written post by the OP. The apologists cavalry will be mounting up as i write.

My thoughts are basically this is quite a nice place to live, nothing that special but i've seen a lot worse. Nice enough weather though rather humid. Reasonable value for money. Nice food. Corruption dreadful, wouldn't want my kids educated here in the substandard schools. People generally speaking pleasant.

Thats it really. Nothing special about the place but without doubt theres a lot worse places to live but i certainly couldn't find many, if any reasons to go overboard about how great it is here.

[Berkshire]

Xandreu, do appreciate your honest and generally fair assessment. Thailand's not right for everybody and it certainly has its good and bad. Just depends on what you're looking for. But I was a tad confused with this statement in your OP:

"The people of Chiang Mai, most of the time, were too stuck up their own <deleted> to even acknowledge that I existed."

Hmmm...isn't that what we want, is to just be left alone? Not looked at as some freak or walking ATM? This is where I think a lot farangs want their cake and eat it too. We want to be looked at as "special," but get annoyed when that happens too frequently, and then get our feelings hurt when we're ignored. Thai folks just can't win...

[carmine]

Xandreu, do appreciate your honest and generally fair assessment. Thailand's not right for everybody and it certainly has its good and bad. Just depends on what you're looking for. But I was a tad confused with this statement in your OP:

"The people of Chiang Mai, most of the time, were too stuck up their own <deleted> to even acknowledge that I existed."

Hmmm...isn't that what we want, is to just be left alone? Not looked at as some freak or walking ATM? This is where I think a lot farangs want their cake and eat it too. We want to be looked at as "special," but get annoyed when that happens too frequently, and then get our feelings hurt when we're ignored. Thai folks just can't win...

The cavalry just arrived!

Actually Mr Berkshire i do like to be ignored. It tends to be a trait of many city dwellers. Why on earth you think "farangs" want to be looked at as special is beyond me.

All i require is common courtesy which is no more or less available here than anywhere else i've been.

Edited March 13, 2012 by carmine

[Berkshire]

Xandreu, do appreciate your honest and generally fair assessment. Thailand's not right for everybody and it certainly has its good and bad. Just depends on what you're looking for. But I was a tad confused with this statement in your OP:

"The people of Chiang Mai, most of the time, were too stuck up their own <deleted> to even acknowledge that I existed."

Hmmm...isn't that what we want, is to just be left alone? Not looked at as some freak or walking ATM? This is where I think a lot farangs want their cake and eat it too. We want to be looked at as "special," but get annoyed when that happens too frequently, and then get our feelings hurt when we're ignored. Thai folks just can't win...

The cavalry just arrived!

Actually Mr Berkshire i do like to be ignored. It tends to be a trait of many city dwellers. Why on earth you think "farangs" want to be looked at as special is beyond me.

All i require is common courtesy which is no more or less available here than anywhere else i've been.

So we agree! That's the point of my post, Carmine, that being ignored is fine in my book. But the OP appeared to be complaining about it. Was my explanation not clear about this?

[Khun Jean]

The OP needs a girlfriend/wife.

Seriously i think that is the 'problem'.

I am 100% sure i would not be in Thailand if it was not for my wife and children. Actually we lived in a few countries and we mostly had a good time because we shared our good and bad moments. "Home' is were we are together.

Thailand has been chosen because at least here we have some control over our own lives, ability to be an entrepreneur again. I despise nanny states.

We did have to live in non tourist areas though to appreciate Thailand. Those tourist places are good for short visits but boy do they get more and more unfriendly.

Did the 'tropical island' thing and am cured of that.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Khun Jean

[carmine]

Xandreu, do appreciate your honest and generally fair assessment. Thailand's not right for everybody and it certainly has its good and bad. Just depends on what you're looking for. But I was a tad confused with this statement in your OP:

"The people of Chiang Mai, most of the time, were too stuck up their own <deleted> to even acknowledge that I existed."

Hmmm...isn't that what we want, is to just be left alone? Not looked at as some freak or walking ATM? This is where I think a lot farangs want their cake and eat it too. We want to be looked at as "special," but get annoyed when that happens too frequently, and then get our feelings hurt when we're ignored. Thai folks just can't win...

The cavalry just arrived!

Actually Mr Berkshire i do like to be ignored. It tends to be a trait of many city dwellers. Why on earth you think "farangs" want to be looked at as special is beyond me.

All i require is common courtesy which is no more or less available here than anywhere else i've been.

So we agree! That's the point of my post, Carmine, that being ignored is fine in my book. But the OP appeared to be complaining about it. Was my explanation not clear about this?

It just makes me laugh they way you find one little thing to isolate and defend the Thais whilst never acknowledging a negative.

You write well but i just don't understand why you cant balance out your posts. Most people would agree that nowhere is perfect but as a whole they live here because on the balance of things they choose to live here. Whats so wrong with a touch of reality?

[Berkshire]

It just makes me laugh they way you find one little thing to isolate and defend the Thais whilst never acknowledging a negative.

You write well but i just don't understand why you cant balance out your posts. Most people would agree that nowhere is perfect but as a whole they live here because on the balance of things they choose to live here. Whats so wrong with a touch of reality?

The thing is, Carmine, there are other things I disagree with the OP about, but I didn't want to pick his post apart as it appeared to me he was trying to be balanced. So I point out one thing and get beat up about that!

To be perfectly honest, there are a lot of negatives about Thailand that I can clearly see. But why complain about the smog in Chiang Mai or the political corruption when there are already several dozen Thai-hating, serial TV bashers who are more than happy to take on that role. I could certainly pile on, but I prefer to give the alternative perspective most of the time. The fly-in-the-ointment, so to speak. I don't think TV needs one more sheep to point out things that are rather obvious to everyone.

[Loz]

I get you.

I came here 6 years ago as a do gooder. Gave up the corporate life for a teaching life. Started out thinking it would be rewarding fun and take a fraction of the time. Like being semi retired. and it did indeed start like that. Then, as is my way, I got sucked in by it all. Started a Masters Degree in it (finish next week) and started working up the ladder. Long hours, frustration, great kids but lame co-workers. Add to that, the stigma attached to having black skin and it is just not enjoyable. If I am gonna work this hard I need more co-operation and/or more reward.

Thankfully I didn't burn my bridges so I am going home where I can live in a nice home, with polite neighbours. have time with my parents who are not getting any younger. Go shopping without being gawped at. Drive a nice car and happily pay more for my petrol. Get a job with a healthy salary that will afford me more security for the future. Maybe my rose tinted specs will crack on arrival but I doubt it.

Nothing wrong with having enough. I had had enough of blighty so I tried this. Now I am ready to go back and enjoy the 21st century in all its modern tolerant glory.

[bendix]

Very well written post by the OP. The apologists cavalry will be mounting up as i write.

My thoughts are basically this is quite a nice place to live, nothing that special but i've seen a lot worse. Nice enough weather though rather humid. Reasonable value for money. Nice food. Corruption dreadful, wouldn't want my kids educated here in the substandard schools. People generally speaking pleasant.

Thats it really. Nothing special about the place but without doubt theres a lot worse places to live but i certainly couldn't find many, if any reasons to go overboard about how great it is here.

You won't find the so-called apologists mounting up at all. The OP has written an excellent and well balanced post about his feelings.

Nobody is going to rail about that. He's simply decided it's not for him.

Good for him for thinking his position through carefully.

Even those who love Thailand - as I do - find some things frustrating. But on balance we believe the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. I personally love my wife too: it doesn't mean I can't see her faults also, and vice versa.

Edited March 13, 2012 by bendix

[poanoi]

The food is great about Thailand, and the nightlife too, at least in Pattaya.

Other than that, Sihanoukville is greater

[TexasRanger]

I have stayed in most places around the world good and bad, but the only thing I ever learned was that nowhere has it all. Thailand for me has more overall to offer and the pro's outweigh the cons, if they ever don't I will go home or somewhere else. Of course I have a lot invested here in family / Language etc. and would hate to have to start again somewhere else. One thing though, I do not think I could stay here and feel accepted if I didn't speak the language. Don't know about the OP but I get the feeling a lot of people who drip about being looked upon as outsiders and people who don't fit in don't even speak Thai.

[farang000999]

When I read other's posts on this forum, it would seem the thing about Thailand that is so great is that the women are poor and desperate. That seems the over whelming theme of Thai Visa.

[carmine]

It just makes me laugh they way you find one little thing to isolate and defend the Thais whilst never acknowledging a negative.

You write well but i just don't understand why you cant balance out your posts. Most people would agree that nowhere is perfect but as a whole they live here because on the balance of things they choose to live here. Whats so wrong with a touch of reality?

The thing is, Carmine, there are other things I disagree with the OP about, but I didn't want to pick his post apart as it appeared to me he was trying to be balanced. So I point out one thing and get beat up about that!

To be perfectly honest, there are a lot of negatives about Thailand that I can clearly see. But why complain about the smog in Chiang Mai or the political corruption when there are already several dozen Thai-hating, serial TV bashers who are more than happy to take on that role. I could certainly pile on, but I prefer to give the alternative perspective most of the time. The fly-in-the-ointment, so to speak. I don't think TV needs one more sheep to point out things that are rather obvious to everyone.

Now thats fair comment.

My biggest frustration here is that most of the negatives could so easily be remedied. However i have know denying that a two week trip back to the UK refects very well on Thailand.

[Loz]

When I read other's posts on this forum, it would seem the thing about Thailand that is so great is that the women are poor and desperate. That seems the over whelming theme of Thai Visa.

Hard to argue with exactly what you said and how you said it.

+1

[AndyBlueEyes]

I commend the OP on his well thought out views on living in Thailand. I think views differ mainly because everything is in comparison to what we have experienced before coming to LOS. The main attractions of Thailand for me are the lower cost of being able to live the high life and the fact that I have a strong preference towards the looks and cultural backgrounds of certain Asian women. The weather, noise and air pollution and sanitation however leave much to be desired in comparison to the beautiful area where I am from in the US. I am sure that my views might be somewhat different if I came from other parts of the world. For me personally, Thailand is a wonderful place to temporarily live or spend my time but the fact is that I am not a Thai wannabe and am very happy with who I am and will spend the majority of my life back in my homeland.

[bendix]

The food is great about Thailand, and the nightlife too, at least in Pattaya.

Other than that, Sihanoukville is greater

Good grief. Where does one start?

[draftvader]

Remember when you leave (as sure as the day gets dark I will one day) that Thailand teaches us all to be slightly different to the day we arrived. If you don't get that then it was barely worth being here in the first place. I, for one thing, am more tolerant than I used to be. Good luck OP and anybody else leaving, heading to new/old shores will be as much of an adventure as being here, it is what you make it and now you know more about how to do that.

[Bakeman]

^{I have been bouncing in and out of Thailand for 5 years and finally settling down this month. I hope my adventure will never end. I am sure my Thai wife wants this also.}

[JSixpack]

The OP needs a girlfriend/wife.

Seriously i think that is the 'problem'.

Agreed. OP needs lovin' and nurturin' and feeling he's somebody special. Didn't happen to find it in Thailand and so he's feeling negative about the whole country. Too bad.

Posters here DON'T fall into "two camps" as stated. Those are the extremes. The majority living here, such as myself, see good & bad points but on balance think the good outweighs the bad. Also, as posters such as Ulysses have pointed out, one can still live quite cheaply here. There have been many long threads in the forum devoted to this point.