My Mother

[TomTom55]

Hello fellow expats. I have been living here in thailand for a couple of years now, I rent a house and I have an ED visa learning Thai. I could already speak the language fairly well as my partner doesn't speak much English, but I did want to perfect it and it gives me a visa so...

Anyway my mum has been offered a package to leave her job teaching in the UK early. It is not something she is forced to do, it is a choice. She has a degree in English and has been a teacher her entire life. My question is this, how easy would it be for her to come to Thailand and get a job with those credentials? Would she be able to get work say at a university? What would the sallery be like for her level. I had an English friend who had no degree, had never taught before but he had a TEFL, he was on 30k Baht a month with no work permit. Can anybody provide answers to these questions please and also what processes my mum may have to go through, thanks

Tom

[lopburi3]

This is a teaching question so will move to that forum.

[tolstoy]

If she is a certified teacher in the UK, then she should apply for International schools. Applying abroad is better than applying here. Perhaps someone else has the link but there is a list somewhere on the net that states the names and contact info for most of the top International schools.

Uni jobs don't pay as well and without actual experience with EFL she might have some problems. However as a classroom teacher teaching subject matter she would be fine. International schools will pay her anywhere between 80-100K. Low - mid tier would pay less but with her qualifications she should go for the best jobs.

[TomTom55]

Thanks a lot, I will pass on the information I thought uni jobs would have paid higher but that is just me being ignorant to the topic. If someone could provide the link that would be great, Tom

[TomTom55]

I have not seen my mum in a little over 2 years now. I am not 100% sure on how to go about her getting a work permit and B visa, would she need to apply to a school from the UK like has been suggested and then get a letter for the visa etc? Who pays for the visa, it is all quite confusing at the moment and I really want this for her because she is so fed up with England and the kids there. I remember before coming here getting a visa sounded like a headache, but it turned out to be quite a straightforward process.

[Scott]

If she hired while overseas, the school can supply her with the necessary papers to get the non-immigrant visa. If she comes here and finds a job, then she will (USUALLY) get the paperwork and then travel to a nearby country to get the non-immigrant visa.

Except for the top tier international schools, not a lot of overseas hiring goes on.

[ivan96822]

If she hired while overseas, the school can supply her with the necessary papers to get the non-immigrant visa. If she comes here and finds a job, then she will (USUALLY) get the paperwork and then travel to a nearby country to get the non-immigrant visa.

Except for the top tier international schools, not a lot of overseas hiring goes on.

Pray tell: What are some of the "top tier international schools"? Also, if applying within Thailand for an International School, could one expect the 80K - 100K Thai baht salary (per month?)?

Please clarify. Thanks.

[tolstoy]

Unless you have a degree in education (MA preferred), min. 5 years experience in your own country, you don't have a chance.

No, most middle and top Inter schools pay local hires much less.

[Scott]

If she hired while overseas, the school can supply her with the necessary papers to get the non-immigrant visa. If she comes here and finds a job, then she will (USUALLY) get the paperwork and then travel to a nearby country to get the non-immigrant visa.

Except for the top tier international schools, not a lot of overseas hiring goes on.

Pray tell: What are some of the "top tier international schools"? Also, if applying within Thailand for an International School, could one expect the 80K - 100K Thai baht salary (per month?)?

Please clarify. Thanks.

A 'true-blue' international school will be certified by the Ministry of Education of the home country. If it is a British school, it will meet the standard of education in Great Britain. These schools generally recruit teachers from the home country.

There are schools which use the word international in their name but they are not accredited by a Ministry/Department of Education from a foreign country. They are basically a Thai school with an international twist and some foreign teachers. (A lot of variation in the quality and price of these schools). I don't know what they pay, but it is generally a good wage.

I am sure other posters have more complete information on this subject.

[BlackArtemis]

Depressing to hear that Tolstoy, as I am coming over and hope to break into the lower/middle tier schools. I have a BSED Biology and a minor in Earth Sciences. I will be taking my certs in Earth science, environmental, and eventually general science. I know I can take them in Bangkok. I have 2.5 years of teaching experience in Thailand, but decided to move back right after getting my degree from the US. Now I am going to do another year at a mid/upper ESL school and look for greener pastures while in country.

I had planned on teaching in the US for a bit, but I said screw it and got a job and am moving back. Hoping some leg work and determination will help me break in.

TomTom: Your mother shouldn't have any trouble!

[tolstoy]

Without home country experience only the lower tiered Inter schools would consider you. You also want to remember that your teacher's license from your home country will usually require additional coursework to extend it. I have had friends teach abroad for 5+ years and now have lost their certification. Keep it up to date.

With your background Artemis, you should find positions for around 40-50K. You might find more if you have contacts but without home country experience, most schools that follow a national curriculum don't want teachers that have taught in Thai schools. Too many cowboys without any standard usually run the show and many pick up bad habbits.

[BlackArtemis]

Without home country experience only the lower tiered Inter schools would consider you. You also want to remember that your teacher's license from your home country will usually require additional coursework to extend it. I have had friends teach abroad for 5+ years and now have lost their certification. Keep it up to date.

With your background Artemis, you should find positions for around 40-50K. You might find more if you have contacts but without home country experience, most schools that follow a national curriculum don't want teachers that have taught in Thai schools. Too many cowboys without any standard usually run the show and many pick up bad habbits.

Already making 40k in CM at an ESL school, so I will be aiming for closer to 60k in CM or 70k+ in Bangkok. As for keeping up my education every 5 years, yup I have that figured out as Drexel University offers online classes that meet Act 48 standards. We'll see how much I can network etc, I know it's an uphill battle, but I think I can get it. The only hard part is that I make a nice sum doing privates and I would want to make more than my 40k + privates to move to Bangkok. I can put away 20k easily every month at the moment, I want to get that up to 30-40k within the next 2-3 years. If I can manage that, it will be a permanent move.

Also I was hoping to jump into the lower tier schools for 3 or so years and jump up from there. We'll have to see, I can always move back to the US, but I want to be settled at one point and have a family as I am 30 and single now but don't want to jump all around with young kids.

Edited March 17, 2012 by BlackArtemis

[ivan96822]

Without home country experience only the lower tiered Inter schools would consider you. You also want to remember that your teacher's license from your home country will usually require additional coursework to extend it. I have had friends teach abroad for 5+ years and now have lost their certification. Keep it up to date.

With your background Artemis, you should find positions for around 40-50K. You might find more if you have contacts but without home country experience, most schools that follow a national curriculum don't want teachers that have taught in Thai schools. Too many cowboys without any standard usually run the show and many pick up bad habbits.

I am still weighing the pros and cons of leaving Hawaii to teach in Bangkok.

Tolstoy, you seem to know a bit. What would be my chances at getting in at one of the better schools?

I have a Bachelor's Degree in English, a State of Hawaii Teaching Certificate, a Master's Degree in Education, and 3.5 years of teaching English to 7th graders, 9th - 12th graders. I am currently teaching American Literature to juniors, and British Literature to seniors, as well as teaching expository writing.

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Edited March 17, 2012 by ivan96822

[tolstoy]

You have the basic credentials. The problem is that many of these positions are quite selective and don't come up as often. You will typically find them at International teaching fairs. You should also do a search for the schools and look at their web pages. Most of them have a jobs available section.

I personally haven't been hired at the Top Schools. When I work in Thailand, which isn't often, it has been with low-mid tier places that pay around 50K or at Unis that pay a lot less. I do a lot of editing though and that makes up for the lower wages at the Uni.

Teaching forums in Thailand don't cater to International schools though. They are more geared for EFL teaching. You might find some mid tier job adds but rarely anything above 50-60K a month. Which isn't awful but not as much as one friend I have. She was hired abroad (older woman in her late 40's with 15+ years at US schools) she is pulling in 100K+ a month. She gets free housing, airfare each year and bonuses for different things. Some of the guys I know that work at the same school but were hired locally only get 55K a month and no benefits.

Not that my experiences are totally reflective of the field. It is more of a rough measure.

If you have the qualifications, getting hired from abroad at top schools is for the best. Especially if you value your time. I work abroad though. I often save 3 times what I earn here and do hate dealing with Thai run businesses. I am a little jaded though and have been in the game too long to put up with even minor administrative problems.

I think the general rule though is a good administration is better than a high paying job for the long haul. There is nothing worse than being told on Friday that you have to work all weekend and will be fined and terminated if you don't show up. Not alwyas a big deal for single people but for those with a family and obligations it does make things stressful.

[tolstoy]

Artemis if you are making 40K+ in Chiang Mai then you are making what the lower tierd inter schools pay here. I think that some might pay around 45-50K, but I don't see your qualifications getting you 60K in CM. I know PhD's here only making 35-45K. Many stopped working for Unis because private secondary schools pay slightly better.

Upper tiered schools will usually avoid teachers who worked at lower tiered schools. Unless they have a mass exodus and need to fill slots.

I have one friend at Prem. and she made 80K but that was a few years ago and when she worked there they refused to do any local hires. I have heard from others that has changed.

One thing to consider is that higher pay usually requires more dilligence/dedication and expertise. You really cannot do any of the bad habbits that you can get away with at Thai schools. Think of your semester of student teaching. I am certain if your mentors were like mine, you had to present yourself at the highest standard at all times. Almost church like behavior. Most teachers I have seen here including myself have relaxed their professionalism slightly. It is hard to keep the same standard as I would have in the west when it is not expected or at time desired. What I hear teachers talk about in the office is definitely not the same caliber of conversation as one would expect in a teachers room back home.

My advice is to stay out of Thailand and build your career in your home state for a few years. Then come back to Thailand. You are youngish. You don't want to be here for 10+ years and have not much more than a few hundred thousand baht saved and no potential for higher earning. I have had some friends return home after Thailand and many schools wouldn't even consider their work experience here valid.

Good luck.

[ivan96822]

You have the basic credentials. The problem is that many of these positions are quite selective and don't come up as often. You will typically find them at International teaching fairs. You should also do a search for the schools and look at their web pages. Most of them have a jobs available section.

I personally haven't been hired at the Top Schools. When I work in Thailand, which isn't often, it has been with low-mid tier places that pay around 50K or at Unis that pay a lot less. I do a lot of editing though and that makes up for the lower wages at the Uni.

Teaching forums in Thailand don't cater to International schools though. They are more geared for EFL teaching. You might find some mid tier job adds but rarely anything above 50-60K a month. Which isn't awful but not as much as one friend I have. She was hired abroad (older woman in her late 40's with 15+ years at US schools) she is pulling in 100K+ a month. She gets free housing, airfare each year and bonuses for different things. Some of the guys I know that work at the same school but were hired locally only get 55K a month and no benefits.

Not that my experiences are totally reflective of the field. It is more of a rough measure.

If you have the qualifications, getting hired from abroad at top schools is for the best. Especially if you value your time. I work abroad though. I often save 3 times what I earn here and do hate dealing with Thai run businesses. I am a little jaded though and have been in the game too long to put up with even minor administrative problems.

I think the general rule though is a good administration is better than a high paying job for the long haul. There is nothing worse than being told on Friday that you have to work all weekend and will be fined and terminated if you don't show up. Not alwyas a big deal for single people but for those with a family and obligations it does make things stressful.

"There is nothing worse than being told on Friday that you have to work all weekend and will be fined and terminated if you don't show up."

How often does this happen in BKK? Are you talking about teaching jobs where this happens? If so, are these the "good schools" or are they the lower-tiered ones?

Please clarify. I had to read that paragraph twice.

[BlackArtemis]

Artemis if you are making 40K+ in Chiang Mai then you are making what the lower tierd inter schools pay here. I think that some might pay around 45-50K, but I don't see your qualifications getting you 60K in CM. I know PhD's here only making 35-45K. Many stopped working for Unis because private secondary schools pay slightly better.

Upper tiered schools will usually avoid teachers who worked at lower tiered schools. Unless they have a mass exodus and need to fill slots.

I have one friend at Prem. and she made 80K but that was a few years ago and when she worked there they refused to do any local hires. I have heard from others that has changed.

One thing to consider is that higher pay usually requires more dilligence/dedication and expertise. You really cannot do any of the bad habbits that you can get away with at Thai schools. Think of your semester of student teaching. I am certain if your mentors were like mine, you had to present yourself at the highest standard at all times. Almost church like behavior. Most teachers I have seen here including myself have relaxed their professionalism slightly. It is hard to keep the same standard as I would have in the west when it is not expected or at time desired. What I hear teachers talk about in the office is definitely not the same caliber of conversation as one would expect in a teachers room back home.

My advice is to stay out of Thailand and build your career in your home state for a few years. Then come back to Thailand. You are youngish. You don't want to be here for 10+ years and have not much more than a few hundred thousand baht saved and no potential for higher earning. I have had some friends return home after Thailand and many schools wouldn't even consider their work experience here valid.

Good luck.

Thanks, I'll come and teach the coming year as I am hired to do and then see where things lead me. Even if it means a return trip back to the US, I have my plans set up so that I will actually be saving more money than I would with a starting position over here. Housing, gas, and food eat up a much larger portion of my potential salary in the US than it does in Thailand. I just sold off a bunch of my things, cars, piano etc. and I have been wanting to return, so it's not a huge loss if things don't turn out how I want them to. The upside is that if I return to the US I can get a new 5.0 mustang to replace the mustang I just sold today >_< haha. Cheers