2012 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

Not defending Grosjean but if Hamilton had thought perhaps as he was being crowded towards the pit wall, on Grosjean's past history this could end up messy things may have been different.

Being squeezed by another driver who is trying to take the bit of track you are driving on is a tactic designed to illicit some form of submission, be it either forcing them off the racing line or be it forcing them into backing off the throttle or even braking. No driver worth his salt is going to submit in this fashion, as to do so, would find you very quickly at the back of the field. You have to hold your ground and at the end of the day, trust that the other driver's challenge on you is a bluff and that whilst they might swerve into your path and almost hit you, they are not so stupid as to not back out at the last second. Grosjean didn't back out, he just kept veering. Quite how Lewis could have predicted this, i'm not sure. As for knowing Grosjean's past history, i would suggest that at that specific time, Lewis had enough going on in his line of vision ahead of him, to start looking closely at who exactly is coming from behind at an angle into his side, and then start modifying his decisions based on who that driver was.

Anyway, after all that first lap calamity, it settled down into a great race with some very interesting battles. Most impressive drive of the day for me was Vettel. Button had a very mature race and deserves plaudits, but to come from where Vettel was to end up where he did, really did take some great driving combined with some great strategy from Red Bull.

Looking forward to the next one. Coming thick and fast now!

[KeyserSoze01]

Grosjean has had more than his share of contact this season, but no more than Maldonado.

He's actually crashed out on the first lap in 7 races out of 12 this year, that's rather more than Maldonado

The difference today is that the stewards have more power in levying penalties and fines, or they at least using these tools more than in the past. They are also much more stringent with the rules and application thereof. What would have been passed off as a racing incident in the past now draws a penalty. Personally, I think the over-application of the rules is doing the sport harm. Hell, a team can't fart in the breeze anymore without drawing a penalty or fine from the stewards. MS had a $2,500 fine during practice last weekend for crossing a painted line entering the pits. Then there was the incident during the race where MS cut across Alonso trying to get into the pits as they fought side-by-side through the Bus Stop chicane. The stewards announced that the incident was under investigations. Enough already, they didn't even touch. Let the guys race.

Could not disagree more, the stewards always had the power, they just never used it. Now it's acceptable to chop across another driver and routine at most starts plus forcing others off the track to prevent an overtake is commonplace.

Sure, let the drivers race but stamp out the dirty tactics which as proved last weekend, can & will at some point, prove highly dangerous

As I stated.

Not sure how long you've been following F1, but for me it goes back to the days of Jimmy Clark. Those were the days when men were men and no one needed any stinking rules, perhaps up to 1994 when Ayrton lost his life. This was the trigger event that forced F1 to take a closer look at liability and driver safety, ushering in the new age of car design. The stewards may have "had" the power all this time, but as I said in my previous post, they did not penalize or fine someone at the drop of a hat. Today, you have the "one move rule", which drivers from the past would openly laugh at. Then you have the stewards shinning a light into every orifice the team exposes, looking for an infraction. F1 is going much the way of our society today, too much influence by the officials. The beauty of the sport is being lost to the pencil-pushers and stewards affecting the outcome of races. IMO, a penalty should not be levied unless a driver takes another driver out of the race, like Maldonado taking out Perez at Silverstone a few weeks ago.

[b19bry]

Grosjean has had more than his share of contact this season, but no more than Maldonado.

He's actually crashed out on the first lap in 7 races out of 12 this year, that's rather more than Maldonado

The difference today is that the stewards have more power in levying penalties and fines, or they at least using these tools more than in the past. They are also much more stringent with the rules and application thereof. What would have been passed off as a racing incident in the past now draws a penalty. Personally, I think the over-application of the rules is doing the sport harm. Hell, a team can't fart in the breeze anymore without drawing a penalty or fine from the stewards. MS had a $2,500 fine during practice last weekend for crossing a painted line entering the pits. Then there was the incident during the race where MS cut across Alonso trying to get into the pits as they fought side-by-side through the Bus Stop chicane. The stewards announced that the incident was under investigations. Enough already, they didn't even touch. Let the guys race.

Could not disagree more, the stewards always had the power, they just never used it. Now it's acceptable to chop across another driver and routine at most starts plus forcing others off the track to prevent an overtake is commonplace.

Sure, let the drivers race but stamp out the dirty tactics which as proved last weekend, can & will at some point, prove highly dangerous

As I stated.

Not sure how long you've been following F1, but for me it goes back to the days of Jimmy Clark. Those were the days when men were men and no one needed any stinking rules, perhaps up to 1994 when Ayrton lost his life. This was the trigger event that forced F1 to take a closer look at liability and driver safety, ushering in the new age of car design. The stewards may have "had" the power all this time, but as I said in my previous post, they did not penalize or fine someone at the drop of a hat. Today, you have the "one move rule", which drivers from the past would openly laugh at. Then you have the stewards shinning a light into every orifice the team exposes, looking for an infraction. F1 is going much the way of our society today, too much influence by the officials. The beauty of the sport is being lost to the pencil-pushers and stewards affecting the outcome of races. IMO, a penalty should not be levied unless a driver takes another driver out of the race, like Maldonado taking out Perez at Silverstone a few weeks ago.

Like you been following since the late 60'. I can clearly remember Jimmy Clark getting killed and thinking it was the end of the world. They were certainly bigger men in those days but I just see things differently.

Sure life in general is more regulated but the reasons I think that's now required more in F1 is because the driving standards have fallen through the floor. Sadly Senna led the way in in this decline and the 'win at all costs' style of driving we see today in F1.

That's partly because the cars at the time were exponentially safer than they were back in the 60's and 70's and have further improved since his death.

Imagine had last Sunday's accident happened back in the 60's, there would undoubtedly have been serious injuries and quite possibly death. The drivers had more respect for each other then and regulated themselves. They were constantly aware of the dangers and did not routinely drive into each other.

Nowadays though, because the cars are so safe, some of the drivers treat their cars like dodgem cars and use them as a weapon against the opposition.

The decline is also partly the FIA's fault because these drivers know they can do this as they've seen others do it before them and get away with it.

I'm not normally one who likes to see rules and regulations but in this case the driving standards in F1 today are crazy. I think they need improving and the drivers need to have more respect for each other.

[b19bry]

Anyone see this ?

Hamilton to Mercedes, Schumacher to quit?

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/183578/1/hamilton_to_mercedes_schumacher_to_quit.html

Would spice things up a bit !

[tinfoilhat]

Anyone see this ?

Hamilton to Mercedes, Schumacher to quit?

http://www.crash.net...er_to_quit.html

Would spice things up a bit !

EJ is rarely right these days.

I' ll believe it when i see it, though it boggles the mind why any team would want a driver with an attitude like Hamilton's. He spits the dummy when he is on the back foot and is most certainly not a team player, i cant imagine brawn, or any other team principle having much patience with him.

His behavior this weekend is fairly typical of every other time he thinks he has an axe to grind.

Maldonado is quick too, but is rapidly proving himself to be a liability, some drivers just cant help but shoot themselves in the foot.

[kartman]

Not defending Grosjean but if Hamilton had thought perhaps as he was being crowded towards the pit wall, on Grosjean's past history this could end up messy things may have been different.

Being squeezed by another driver who is trying to take the bit of track you are driving on is a tactic designed to illicit some form of submission, be it either forcing them off the racing line or be it forcing them into backing off the throttle or even braking. No driver worth his salt is going to submit in this fashion, as to do so, would find you very quickly at the back of the field. You have to hold your ground and at the end of the day, trust that the other driver's challenge on you is a bluff and that whilst they might swerve into your path and almost hit you, they are not so stupid as to not back out at the last second. Grosjean didn't back out, he just kept veering. Quite how Lewis could have predicted this, i'm not sure. As for knowing Grosjean's past history, i would suggest that at that specific time, Lewis had enough going on in his line of vision ahead of him, to start looking closely at who exactly is coming from behind at an angle into his side, and then start modifying his decisions based on who that driver was.

Anyway, after all that first lap calamity, it settled down into a great race with some very interesting battles. Most impressive drive of the day for me was Vettel. Button had a very mature race and deserves plaudits, but to come from where Vettel was to end up where he did, really did take some great driving combined with some great strategy from Red Bull.

Looking forward to the next one. Coming thick and fast now!

Sometimes you have to make decisions that allow you to 'fight another day' if everybody held their ground there would be carnage at every first corner and Hamilton wasn't racing the six ahead of him they had long gone he was in direct competition with the black & gold car overtaking from the left and on past history that does not make it through the first turn without some sort of incident so letting it go on to cause headaches to somebody else and positioning yourself to take advantage might have been the best call.

[rixalex]

Sometimes you have to make decisions that allow you to 'fight another day' if everybody held their ground there would be carnage at every first corner and Hamilton wasn't racing the six ahead of him they had long gone he was in direct competition with the black & gold car overtaking from the left and on past history that does not make it through the first turn without some sort of incident so letting it go on to cause headaches to somebody else and positioning yourself to take advantage might have been the best call.

Yes you may be right. Discretion is the better part of valor and all that. I don't think though that considering the long term and taking a more conservative approach, losing a fight to win the battle, has ever been Lewis's strong suit. He would rather die fighting than ever concede an inch of track. Sometimes he pays dearly for that, but take that aspect of his personality away from him and he might not have turned into the driver he is. In footballing terms he is a Rooney. His dogged bloody-mindedness gets him into trouble at times, and results in the occasional red card from a reckless tackle, but on the flip side, it is that dogged bloody-mindedness aspect of his character that makes him the successful footballer he is.

Anyway, the other factor in this discussion is that it is very easy to talk with the benefit of hindsight. We all now know that Grosjean didn't veer right along side Lewis, as we all might of imagined he was doing at the time, he instead veered right into Lewis. Easy to now look clever and say well Lewis should have known that would happen.

At the end of the day, bottom line, if Grosjean didn't drive like an idiot possessed from one side of the track to the other, we wouldn't be here having this discussion. Shifting any of the blame away from him, seems a very generous thing to be doing, and i can't imagine that had it of been Lewis veering into Alonso in the same manner, we would be here questioning Alonso's driving in any way.

[rixalex]

I' ll believe it when i see it, though it boggles the mind why any team would want a driver with an attitude like Hamilton's. He spits the dummy when he is on the back foot and is most certainly not a team player, i cant imagine brawn, or any other team principle having much patience with him.

Sport is full of egotists that do stupid things, but more often than not, it is these sorts that make it to the top. Take Ronaldo. Most expensive player of all time and without doubt one of the best in the world. He is also one of the biggest sulkers you could meet, he cares only about himself, and has enjoyed a long and public love affair with the mirror. What team in the world wouldn't want him playing for them though? No team that wants to win is the answer.

The three best drivers in the world right now, in my opinion, are Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, and none of these three are what i would describe as being the most well-rounded or the most well-grounded individuals in the world. They have all spat the dummy at times (Vettel less so), and they have all acted in an arrogant manner, but luckily for them, F1 is not a test of those things, it's not about who would be best company to share a pint with, it is all about who can drive fast and who can win. All three most certainly can, and all three would be right at the very top of any team principle's wish list.

[F1fanatic]

I' ll believe it when i see it, though it boggles the mind why any team would want a driver with an attitude like Hamilton's. He spits the dummy when he is on the back foot and is most certainly not a team player, i cant imagine brawn, or any other team principle having much patience with him.

Sport is full of egotists that do stupid things, but more often than not, it is these sorts that make it to the top. Take Ronaldo. Most expensive player of all time and without doubt one of the best in the world. He is also one of the biggest sulkers you could meet, he cares only about himself, and has enjoyed a long and public love affair with the mirror. What team in the world wouldn't want him playing for them though? No team that wants to win is the answer.

The three best drivers in the world right now, in my opinion, are Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, and none of these three are what i would describe as being the most well-rounded or the most well-grounded individuals in the world. They have all spat the dummy at times (Vettel less so), and they have all acted in an arrogant manner, but luckily for them, F1 is not a test of those things, it's not about who would be best company to share a pint with, it is all about who can drive fast and who can win. All three most certainly can, and all three would be right at the very top of any team principle's wish list.

I agree with you to a large extent, but I can't imagine either Ferrari wanting Hamilton (to partner Alonso) or Red Bull wanting him (to partner Vettel)! The fireworks would be amazing for fans, but not so much fun for the teams...

[rixalex]

I' ll believe it when i see it, though it boggles the mind why any team would want a driver with an attitude like Hamilton's. He spits the dummy when he is on the back foot and is most certainly not a team player, i cant imagine brawn, or any other team principle having much patience with him.

Sport is full of egotists that do stupid things, but more often than not, it is these sorts that make it to the top. Take Ronaldo. Most expensive player of all time and without doubt one of the best in the world. He is also one of the biggest sulkers you could meet, he cares only about himself, and has enjoyed a long and public love affair with the mirror. What team in the world wouldn't want him playing for them though? No team that wants to win is the answer.

The three best drivers in the world right now, in my opinion, are Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, and none of these three are what i would describe as being the most well-rounded or the most well-grounded individuals in the world. They have all spat the dummy at times (Vettel less so), and they have all acted in an arrogant manner, but luckily for them, F1 is not a test of those things, it's not about who would be best company to share a pint with, it is all about who can drive fast and who can win. All three most certainly can, and all three would be right at the very top of any team principle's wish list.

I agree with you to a large extent, but I can't imagine either Ferrari wanting Hamilton (to partner Alonso) or Red Bull wanting him (to partner Vettel)! The fireworks would be amazing for fans, but not so much fun for the teams...

Yes in that regard you are right. Only room for one alpha male, prima dona!

[F1fanatic]

Thinking about it, the Schumi leaving (again) rumour, started from Bernie's comment? Bernie doesn't make un-calculated comments...

Where did the Lewis to Merc rumour start? Eddie Jordan I think, but where did he get that info from?

Apologies for all the question marks, but the whole thing (true or not) is v odd.

Edit - Its worrying though that Merc are not denying the rumour - just saying 'until our driver line-up is confirmed, we are saying nothing', or words to that effect. Perhaps Merc is talking to Lewis' management team in case Schumi decides not to continue next season?

Edited September 6, 2012 by F1fanatic

[rixalex]

Now here is an (ex) F1 man my heart goes out to:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/disability-sport/19493510

You can take the man away from racing, but you can't take racing away from the man! He'll find a way back. Fantastic.

[ignis]

Just watched P1..... Schumi tops this practice .......... Nice now HD is working and Practice is also show

[tinfoilhat]

I' ll believe it when i see it, though it boggles the mind why any team would want a driver with an attitude like Hamilton's. He spits the dummy when he is on the back foot and is most certainly not a team player, i cant imagine brawn, or any other team principle having much patience with him.

Sport is full of egotists that do stupid things, but more often than not, it is these sorts that make it to the top. Take Ronaldo. Most expensive player of all time and without doubt one of the best in the world. He is also one of the biggest sulkers you could meet, he cares only about himself, and has enjoyed a long and public love affair with the mirror. What team in the world wouldn't want him playing for them though? No team that wants to win is the answer.

The three best drivers in the world right now, in my opinion, are Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, and none of these three are what i would describe as being the most well-rounded or the most well-grounded individuals in the world. They have all spat the dummy at times (Vettel less so), and they have all acted in an arrogant manner, but luckily for them, F1 is not a test of those things, it's not about who would be best company to share a pint with, it is all about who can drive fast and who can win. All three most certainly can, and all three would be right at the very top of any team principle's wish list.

raikkonen would be the best to share a pint with..

[F1fanatic]

I' ll believe it when i see it, though it boggles the mind why any team would want a driver with an attitude like Hamilton's. He spits the dummy when he is on the back foot and is most certainly not a team player, i cant imagine brawn, or any other team principle having much patience with him.

Sport is full of egotists that do stupid things, but more often than not, it is these sorts that make it to the top. Take Ronaldo. Most expensive player of all time and without doubt one of the best in the world. He is also one of the biggest sulkers you could meet, he cares only about himself, and has enjoyed a long and public love affair with the mirror. What team in the world wouldn't want him playing for them though? No team that wants to win is the answer.

The three best drivers in the world right now, in my opinion, are Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, and none of these three are what i would describe as being the most well-rounded or the most well-grounded individuals in the world. They have all spat the dummy at times (Vettel less so), and they have all acted in an arrogant manner, but luckily for them, F1 is not a test of those things, it's not about who would be best company to share a pint with, it is all about who can drive fast and who can win. All three most certainly can, and all three would be right at the very top of any team principle's wish list.

raikkonen would be the best to share a pint with..

I'm not sure about that... Some Finns can be a bit OTT when pissed, and the youtubes of Kimi (when 'under the influence') tend to indicate that he is one of them.

[rixalex]

With the Italian GP upon us, i thought i would watch Senna the movie last night. I assume all you guys and girls being the F1 fans you are, have already seen it?

Anyway, the way the movie climaxed showed just how palpable the tension was on that fateful weekend. As if a really big dark cloud had blown over the circuit. Extremely foreboding sense about it all. Hope we never have to experience a weekend like that one again. Awful.

I remember completely losing my interest in F1 after that. Still watched the races but it all felt so pointless. And then for things to end as they did in Australia... well that was the cherry on top of the cake.

[ignis]

So Hamilton and Button at the front..

Decided to stay on this channel, nice to have Hill and Herbert.......... instead of Slater on Star Sport, saying that have been watching ESPN HD for last 2 races.

Edited September 8, 2012 by ignis

[rixalex]

Ferrari's Luca in the news today saying he thinks the races at 90 minutes might be too long and making them shorter, perhaps having two short races, might help attract a younger audience. Stuff the younger audience i say. I get so fed up with the way fundamental aspects of the sport get changed. It's ridiculous.

The other idea he had was to change the start times in Europe to 6 or 7 pm, because at 2pm apparently everyone in Europe is down on the beach or doing their shopping or whatever. Again, who gives a stuff about these people? They obviously aren't interested in F1 if they can't be torn from lying on sand. It's as if some people are trying to make the sport as cheap and gimmicky as possible, pandering to the world of Sky Sports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19532651

[ignis]

They obviously aren't interested in F1 if they can't be torn from lying on sand.

So true..........so like some of the other races cant see people coming from lying on sand for Race 1 and then again for Race 2..

in Europe to 6 or 7 pm, because at 2pm apparently everyone in Europe is down on the beach

really...... most of the Races in Europe have been wet, no idea why he thinks people are lying on the beach in the rain...... + as it is not dark until 10pm why would these beach people be back to watch at 6 or 7 pm. ?

Anyway don't most people have internet on there mobile phone, so if they wanted to watch F1 they could even laying on the sand !

Wait a moment forget it is that time of the year, Silly season.

[Mosha]

I cried my eyes out when Jim Clark died. No other death as affected me so deeply in the sport. Shocked yes, but distressed no. It's more a business than a sport now, otherwise Monaco would have been replaced long ago. IMHO

[Mosha]

Ferrari's Luca in the news today saying he thinks the races at 90 minutes might be too long and making them shorter, perhaps having two short races, might help attract a younger audience. Stuff the younger audience i say. I get so fed up with the way fundamental aspects of the sport get changed. It's ridiculous.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/19532651

They tried that, they called it A1

edited quoted post for relevance to my post

[Chicog]

raikkonen would be the best to share a pint with..

He is about as miserable a bastard as you could ever meet. Conversely, a nicer bloke than Schumacher it would be hard to find.

[Chicog]

Ferrari's Luca in the news today saying he thinks the races at 90 minutes might be too long and making them shorter, perhaps having two short races, might help attract a younger audience. Stuff the younger audience i say. I get so fed up with the way fundamental aspects of the sport get changed. It's ridiculous.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/19532651

They tried that, they called it A1

edited quoted post for relevance to my post

There's a nice story behind A1. Dubai had essentially insulted Ecclestone and to punish them he gave the F1 to Bahrain, even though Dubai's track was more than half finished. The Maktoums decided that they would punish him back by creating a "proper" World Championship and putting him out of business.

Of course they did their testicles on it and never achieved anything of note.

Then Abu Dhabi got F1 and Ferrari World, and Dubai have been sulking ever since.

[Chicog]

Terrific race today, by the way, I won't give anything away in case people have taped it, but well worth watching.

[ignis]

Good Race, ................ the winner followed by ................., both ................ out

Edit, opps gave it away so edit names out

Edited September 9, 2012 by ignis

[Mosha]

Alonso spits the dummy, and Vettel gets a drive through. Or did I miss something?

[Chicog]

Alonso spits the dummy, and Vettel gets a drive through. Or did I miss something?

You obviously missed Vettel not leaving a car's width and forcing him off the track when he would have easily got past.

[tinfoilhat]

raikkonen would be the best to share a pint with..

He is about as miserable a bastard as you could ever meet. Conversely, a nicer bloke than Schumacher it would be hard to find.

all reports are the opposite is true. a drier wit was never seen in the paddock. Schumacer would not even be a close second choice.

i dont think i could spend even 15 mins with our louis though

[tinfoilhat]

Terrific race today, by the way, I won't give anything away in case people have taped it, but well worth watching.

taped it? is it 1985?

Anyways, yes great race, but not for red bull.

Vettel's drive through was a <deleted> call i thought. Alonso went wide.

great drive by perez though. not what massa needed at all. the poor bugger has stepped up his game, but way too late.

maintain your tires indeed.

[LennyW]

Bad day at the office for the Bull's, and a <deleted> decision on the drive through for Vettel, although a moot point as he retired anyway.

Red Bull are going to have to up their game somewhat if they want to retain any of their titles, McLaren are closing in on the constructors and Alonso is stretching out his lead in the drivers.

So is sulky Lewis going to Mercedes or what?, i would like to see that, and put Paul Di Resta in the McLaren seat.............