2012 Formula One Season

[Mosha]

No HRT next season, they are up for sale, and the deadline has passed for entries.

Feel sure I read somewhere Honda were looking to come in ??

This article from October, says it's a long term view.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103263

[rixalex]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20579507

More self-effacing modesty from the self proclaimed "great" of the sport.

Alonso said he believed his performance during the season had raised his stock among Formula 1 fans.

"It was a miracle to see, race after race, what we managed to achieve," he added.

"I drove the best season of my life and now I can only think of the year to come.

"Before, people had a more or less good opinion of me, but now I notice a whole different level of respect.

"To be one of the greats of Formula 1, it's not enough to win titles; you must also tackle seasons like the one that has just ended."

That last remark will be interpreted by some as a subtle dig at German Vettel, who this year became only the third driver in history to win three consecutive titles but who has spent the vast majority of his short career in competitive cars.

On the matter of the desperate appeal into Vettel that Alonso and Ferrari were behind, that was nothing to do with them really, it was their fans who were behind pushing for it and they simply did it for them. Yeah right.

Alonso said: "There were a lot of video clips on the internet and we knew our fans were asking for an explanation, so it was right for Ferrari to turn to the federation for clarification.

"We got a reply and I think everything has now calmed down.

"Frankly, I'm not that interested in what the opinion is of me in Germany or elsewhere. What I know is that people who see me in the streets hug me and call me gladiator or samurai."

Gladiator or samurai?!

If this is what he is like having lost, just imagine what he would have been like had he won?

Edited December 7, 2012 by rixalex

[Mosha]

Samurai committed Hari-Kari when they failed Alonso.

[tinfoilhat]

unbearable.

Every time i begin to really respect the man he does something slimy.

[Mosha]

unbearable.

Every time i begin to really respect the man he does something slimy.

Most other walks of like in the UK, he would have been prosecuted for attempted blackmail re the McLaren episode.

[JetsetBkk]

unbearable.

Every time i begin to really respect the man he does something slimy.

Exactly! I was really starting to think he was a good driver who gave an honest post-race interview each time he failed to win a race and complemented the good driving of his competitors. I really started to like him. But that all changed after the "gear box seal" incident and the "illegal overtake" incident.

It's really quite a shame - he was putting on a good act for most of the year. But now he's blown it all!

[b19bry]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20579507

More self-effacing modesty from the self proclaimed "great" of the sport.

Alonso said he believed his performance during the season had raised his stock among Formula 1 fans.

"It was a miracle to see, race after race, what we managed to achieve," he added.

"I drove the best season of my life and now I can only think of the year to come.

"Before, people had a more or less good opinion of me, but now I notice a whole different level of respect.

"To be one of the greats of Formula 1, it's not enough to win titles; you must also tackle seasons like the one that has just ended."

That last remark will be interpreted by some as a subtle dig at German Vettel, who this year became only the third driver in history to win three consecutive titles but who has spent the vast majority of his short career in competitive cars.

On the matter of the desperate appeal into Vettel that Alonso and Ferrari were behind, that was nothing to do with them really, it was their fans who were behind pushing for it and they simply did it for them. Yeah right.

Alonso said: "There were a lot of video clips on the internet and we knew our fans were asking for an explanation, so it was right for Ferrari to turn to the federation for clarification.

"We got a reply and I think everything has now calmed down.

"Frankly, I'm not that interested in what the opinion is of me in Germany or elsewhere. What I know is that people who see me in the streets hug me and call me gladiator or samurai."

Gladiator or samurai?!

If this is what he is like having lost, just imagine what he would have been like had he won?

On and on and on and on.................yawn

[b19bry]

unbearable.

Every time i begin to really respect the man he does something slimy.

Most other walks of like in the UK, he would have been prosecuted for attempted blackmail re the McLaren episode.

That's just a plain silly and a typically biased thing to say. Mclaren were the guilty party, were fined a record $100m, lost all their team points, Ron Dennis had to step down and Alonso along with the other team drivers were required by the FIA to provide any information they had on the matter.

[b19bry]

There were two driver's who performed brilliantly over the course of the year and they were Vettel and Alonso. I may admit that Alonso's choice of words is not always be to the Anglo-Saxon taste. However his mother tongue is not English, the substance of what he says above though is broadly correct.

I may concede the language he uses often affords something of a blue touch paper to those wishing to use it and those opportunities are never passed up here and exploited ad infinitum. Curiously, in contrast very little is made on these pages when Hamilton, for example, tweet's with his foot in his mouth.

Objectively Alonso should not have been challenging for the championship until the last race. Given the performance of his car relative to the competition over the year most informed pundits (including many ex F1 drivers and champions) agree on that and also that he produced his best season to date.

Of course he like most of the more successful F1 driver's (Vettel and Hamilton included) has something of an ego but his status as a 'great' is far from merely 'self proclaimed'.

The racing this year was among the best of any F1 season, I just hope 2013 can be anywhere near as good. Red Bull currently looking as though they will again take some stopping. Let's hope the discussion here can be more about the racing than say Alonso's eyebrows.

[Mosha]

unbearable.

Every time i begin to really respect the man he does something slimy.

Most other walks of like in the UK, he would have been prosecuted for attempted blackmail re the McLaren episode.

That's just a plain silly and a typically biased thing to say. Mclaren were the guilty party, were fined a record $100m, lost all their team points, Ron Dennis had to step down and Alonso along with the other team drivers were required by the FIA to provide any information they had on the matter.

All teams did as McLaren did. ESPN commentators said as much. Alonso wouldn't have opened his gob. if McLaren had backed down to his threats.

[b19bry]

unbearable.

Every time i begin to really respect the man he does something slimy.

Most other walks of like in the UK, he would have been prosecuted for attempted blackmail re the McLaren episode.

That's just a plain silly and a typically biased thing to say. Mclaren were the guilty party, were fined a record $100m, lost all their team points, Ron Dennis had to step down and Alonso along with the other team drivers were required by the FIA to provide any information they had on the matter.

All teams did as McLaren did. ESPN commentators said as much. Alonso wouldn't have opened his gob. if McLaren had backed down to his threats.

Oh right, so it was all Alonso's fault that only Mclaren got a record fine, only Mclaren had all their points stripped and Ron Dennis was forced to retreat with his tail between his legs ?

[rixalex]

There were two driver's who performed brilliantly over the course of the year and they were Vettel and Alonso. I may admit that Alonso's choice of words is not always be to the Anglo-Saxon taste. However his mother tongue is not English, the substance of what he says above though is broadly correct.

I may concede the language he uses often affords something of a blue touch paper to those wishing to use it and those opportunities are never passed up here and exploited ad infinitum. Curiously, in contrast very little is made on these pages when Hamilton, for example, tweet's with his foot in his mouth.

Objectively Alonso should not have been challenging for the championship until the last race. Given the performance of his car relative to the competition over the year most informed pundits (including many ex F1 drivers and champions) agree on that and also that he produced his best season to date.

Of course he like most of the more successful F1 driver's (Vettel and Hamilton included) has something of an ego but his status as a 'great' is far from merely 'self proclaimed'.

The racing this year was among the best of any F1 season, I just hope 2013 can be anywhere near as good. Red Bull currently looking as though they will again take some stopping. Let's hope the discussion here can be more about the racing than say Alonso's eyebrows.

The façade of you just being a neutral spectator with no real driver preferences, just a bit of admiration for some, has truly been thrown out the window this season with the way you have jumped over anything of a remotely critical nature concerning Alonso like a rash.

Throughout this season there has been plenty of negative comments on this thread of all the top three drivers, Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton. And there has also been varying degrees of praise for all three. I, as you know, am a Hamilton fan - not so much for who he is a person, (especially not after this season) but a fan of what he does behind the wheel - but even as a Hamilton fan, i have not defended him of a lot of the criticism he has received - particularly from about the half way point in the season when he started doing some really silly things - and in fact i have joined in with some of the criticism. Being a fan doesn't have to mean being blind to errors, flaws and mistakes.

For you I can't recall one single occasion throughout the three or four years of contributing to F1 threads on Thavisa, when you have done anything but defend Alonso at every single turn... which either means he is perfect or that you are blind.

What he said this week was absolutely cringe worthy. And i said before, it's not about the accuracy of what he says, it is that he is the one saying it. It's not for him to decide whether he is an F1 great. Fine for him to privately believe he is - i'm sure a lot of the drivers privately believe it of themselves too - but he shouldn't come out and say it. These are the sort of thoughts meant to stay inside your head.

Even a poster on here who is known to share your intense dislike for Hamilton, and who you were only praising a week or so ago as being one of the few sensible posters on here, has also expressed disappointment for what Alonso said, calling him unbearable and slimy. That really should tell you something. Sadly i don't suppose it will. You will continue your dogged head in the sand attitude of anything negative said about Alonso as being unfounded Alonso-bashing. Sad.

Perhaps alonso.is.the.greatest.com might be a more comfortable forum for your views. I'm sure over there they would clamp down hard and to your satisfaction on anyone who dares even a chuckle at a man for having such perfectly manicured eyebrows. Over here i hope the tone remains of a more light-hearted nature, where chuckling is not prohibited. Life is to short....

[b19bry]

There were two driver's who performed brilliantly over the course of the year and they were Vettel and Alonso. I may admit that Alonso's choice of words is not always be to the Anglo-Saxon taste. However his mother tongue is not English, the substance of what he says above though is broadly correct.

I may concede the language he uses often affords something of a blue touch paper to those wishing to use it and those opportunities are never passed up here and exploited ad infinitum. Curiously, in contrast very little is made on these pages when Hamilton, for example, tweet's with his foot in his mouth.

Objectively Alonso should not have been challenging for the championship until the last race. Given the performance of his car relative to the competition over the year most informed pundits (including many ex F1 drivers and champions) agree on that and also that he produced his best season to date.

Of course he like most of the more successful F1 driver's (Vettel and Hamilton included) has something of an ego but his status as a 'great' is far from merely 'self proclaimed'.

The racing this year was among the best of any F1 season, I just hope 2013 can be anywhere near as good. Red Bull currently looking as though they will again take some stopping. Let's hope the discussion here can be more about the racing than say Alonso's eyebrows.

The façade of you just being a neutral spectator with no real driver preferences, just a bit of admiration for some, has truly been thrown out the window this season with the way you have jumped over anything of a remotely critical nature concerning Alonso like a rash.

Throughout this season there has been plenty of negative comments on this thread of all the top three drivers, Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton. And there has also been varying degrees of praise for all three. I, as you know, am a Hamilton fan - not so much for who he is a person, (especially not after this season) but a fan of what he does behind the wheel - but even as a Hamilton fan, i have not defended him of a lot of the criticism he has received - particularly from about the half way point in the season when he started doing some really silly things - and in fact i have joined in with some of the criticism. Being a fan doesn't have to mean being blind to errors, flaws and mistakes.

For you I can't recall one single occasion throughout the three or four years of contributing to F1 threads on Thavisa, when you have done anything but defend Alonso at every single turn... which either means he is perfect or that you are blind.

What he said this week was absolutely cringe worthy. And i said before, it's not about the accuracy of what he says, it is that he is the one saying it. It's not for him to decide whether he is an F1 great. Fine for him to privately believe he is - i'm sure a lot of the drivers privately believe it of themselves too - but he shouldn't come out and say it. These are the sort of thoughts meant to stay inside your head.

Even a poster on here who is known to share your intense dislike for Hamilton, and who you were only praising a week or so ago as being one of the few sensible posters on here, has also expressed disappointment for what Alonso said, calling him unbearable and slimy. That really should tell you something. Sadly i don't suppose it will. You will continue your dogged head in the sand attitude of anything negative said about Alonso as being unfounded Alonso-bashing. Sad.

Perhaps alonso.is.the.greatest.com might be a more comfortable forum for your views. I'm sure over there they would clamp down hard and to your satisfaction on anyone who dares even a chuckle at a man for having such perfectly manicured eyebrows. Over here i hope the tone remains of a more light-hearted nature, where chuckling is not prohibited. Life is to short....

It was some time ago that I inidicated I was neutral, I admit more recentlyand especially over the course of this season I have warmed to Alonso and reading the constantly negative rubbish about him that is posted on here has contributed to that.

There is agreed some criticism of most of the top drivers here, what get's me though is the amount of space on here that gets posted against Alonso and a large part of that is by you, you only have to refer back to the previous pages on here to see that.

You may have been accepting in some instances of criticism against Hamilton but more often than not you are every bit as 'hyper' and go to extaordinary lengths in his defence. It's just the criticism of him is far less than that against Alonso on here, just remember Hamilton's behaviour last season and how little it was commented on here.

As to me only ever defending Alonso, even in the last few pages I conceded above that the language he used is often not appreciated by Anglo Saxon's, I also conceded that the Ferrari team would be wrong to pursue the overtaking issue.

I can accept anyone criticising Alonso or any other driver. It just seems to me that posts on here (and you especially) are relentless, go that extra mile and often take it to a personal level.

You may have a childish 'chuckle' at his eyebrows but I'd rather keep it more focussed on the driving merits. I have largely held back from any criticsm of Hamilton this year, his actions generally speak louder than anything I could post.

You go on to make me out as someone who blindly and manaically supports Alonso only. I actually also like some of the other drivers, including Button, think he has a far better temperament than Hamilton, kind of like Prost to Hamilton's Senna. I also would love to see Raikkonen go even better next year, he had a great comeback season too. I like Rosberg too and expected more of the Mercedes this year, it will be very intersting how he and Hamilton fare next season.

Edited December 9, 2012 by b19bry

[rixalex]

I can accept anyone criticising Alonso or any other driver.

The evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary.... at least where Alonso is concerned...

As for Alonso getting more criticism than other drivers, i am of no doubt whatsoever that over the last few weeks, had it of been Hamilton involved in a plan to get his team mate demoted on the grid, or had it been Hamilton the one saying all those self-congratulatory things about himself, or had it been Hamilton pushing for an investigation into Vettel days after the race has finished on some minor technicality that proved groundless anyway, there would have been at least an equal amount of condemnation as Alonso has received.

It has been nothing to with who he is... and certainly nothing to do with those eyebrows... it has been to do with what he has done and what he has said... a lot of people, simply have not liked it and think he was wrong.

[b19bry]

I can accept anyone criticising Alonso or any other driver.

The evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary.... at least where Alonso is concerned...

As for Alonso getting more criticism than other drivers, i am of no doubt whatsoever that over the last few weeks, had it of been Hamilton involved in a plan to get his team mate demoted on the grid, or had it been Hamilton the one saying all those self-congratulatory things about himself, or had it been Hamilton pushing for an investigation into Vettel days after the race has finished on some minor technicality that proved groundless anyway, there would have been at least an equal amount of condemnation as Alonso has received.

It has been nothing to with who he is... and certainly nothing to do with those eyebrows... it has been to do with what he has done and what he has said... a lot of people, simply have not liked it and think he was wrong.

There you go again with your 'if it had been Hamilton' assertion which is a constant theme of your's, again go back and check the previous pages on that one.

It has 'everything' to do with who he is and if his eyebrows have nothing to do with it why mention them, it's playground humour (i.e. maybe funny to a five year old) and does nothing to enhance your argument ?

It introduces a football hooligan type 'mentality' where you support one team and trash your main opponents with any type of childish or offensive barb.

I like him as a driver, we'll have to agree to disagree.

A lot of informed people (not only me) also thought he just had the season of his life.

Edited December 9, 2012 by b19bry

[rixalex]

There you go again with your 'if it had been Hamilton' assertion which is a constant theme of your's, again go back and check the previous pages on that one.

What exactly am i checking for? Yes, i assert that had Hamilton done the things Alonso has done over the last few weeks, your condemnation would be ringing as loud as anyone else. Asserted it before and asserting it now.

It has 'everything' to do with who he is and if his eyebrows have nothing to do with it why mention them, it's playground humour (i.e. maybe funny to a five year old) and does nothing to enhance your argument ?

It introduces a football hooligan type 'mentality' where you support one team and trash your main opponents with any type of childish or offensive barb.

How can it be to do with who he is when many of the people now doing the criticising are the same people who spent much of the season praising him?

As for the eyebrows thing, can we please draw a line under it? I mentioned finding his eyebrows funny at the end of a post in a sentence that can't have been more than four or five words long. I really never expected such an antsy and over-protective reaction in their defence. They clearly are no laughing matter. I understand that now.

I like him as a driver, we'll have to agree to disagree.

A lot of informed people (not only me) also thought he just had the season of his life.

I like him as a driver, and have repeatedly stated how good i think he is and how important he is for the sport. I just don't happen to like him as a person, nor like some of the things he says and does. I'm sorry about that.

As for him having the season of his life - for what it is worth as someone not informed like yourself - yes i agree, he had a very good season.

[b19bry]

There you go again with your 'if it had been Hamilton' assertion which is a constant theme of your's, again go back and check the previous pages on that one.

What exactly am i checking for?

The number of times that you've pulled that 'if it had been Hamilton' line on this thread.

[b19bry]

As for the eyebrows thing, can we please draw a line under it?

Certainly, I didn't start that one though.

[rixalex]

There you go again with your 'if it had been Hamilton' assertion which is a constant theme of your's, again go back and check the previous pages on that one.

What exactly am i checking for?

The number of times that you've pulled that 'if it had been Hamilton' line on this thread.

Still don't know what i'm checking for. I haven't changed my mind. I still believe that were Hamilton to have done some of the things Alonso has done of late, some people's reaction, like yours for example, would have been quite different.

[b19bry]

Still don't know what i'm checking for.

I can't be more explicit in what I'm saying.

I haven't changed my mind. I still believe that were Hamilton to have done some of the things Alonso has done of late, some people's reaction, like yours for example, would have been quite different.

Well of course you do, conjecture is something of a speciality of your's

[rixalex]

Still don't know what i'm checking for.

I can't be more explicit in what I'm saying.

I understand what you are asking me to check, i just don't understand why. Could you be more explicit about that?

[b19bry]

Still don't know what i'm checking for.

I can't be more explicit in what I'm saying.

I understand what you are asking me to check, i just don't understand why. Could you be more explicit about that?

You're inference is that if it had been Hamilton rather than Alonso poster's here would have been down on him like a ton of bricks. You have repeatedly made this insinuation with regards to Hamilton and not only with regard to Alonso.

The point is you believe Hamilton would get harsher treatment whereas the opposite is actually the case. When Hamilton had his meltdown last year he was not at all lambasted on here, I for one didn't post that critically, his actions spoke for themselves. And again this year when he made a series of innapropriate tweets (including one that could have got him fired) nobody even commented on here.

[tinfoilhat]

if anyone did what alonso did this year i would have lost respect for them, as for hamilton, it seems to me that almost every race he wins was the best drive of his career come interview time.

the point is, we are not discussing hamilton's actions, we are discussing alonso's, and they left me shaking my head.

[b19bry]

if anyone did what alonso did this year i would have lost respect for them, as for hamilton, it seems to me that almost every race he wins was the best drive of his career come interview time.

the point is, we are not discussing hamilton's actions, we are discussing alonso's, and they left me shaking my head.

I can respect your position, however we're not discussing Alonso's action's per se but rather his treatment on here.

[rixalex]

You're inference is that if it had been Hamilton rather than Alonso poster's here would have been down on him like a ton of bricks. You have repeatedly made this insinuation with regards to Hamilton and not only with regard to Alonso.

The point is you believe Hamilton would get harsher treatment whereas the opposite is actually the case. When Hamilton had his meltdown last year he was not at all lambasted on here, I for one didn't post that critically, his actions spoke for themselves. And again this year when he made a series of innapropriate tweets (including one that could have got him fired) nobody even commented on here.

With regards your opinion, it would be hard for Hamilton to not get harsher treatment for the same things done or the same things said as Alonso, considering you haven't been harsh on Alonso at all or in any shape or form - quite the reverse - you have defended his every move.

What i am saying is i don't believe for a second you would be here defending Hamilton. And you would be quite right not to.

[b19bry]

You're inference is that if it had been Hamilton rather than Alonso poster's here would have been down on him like a ton of bricks. You have repeatedly made this insinuation with regards to Hamilton and not only with regard to Alonso.

The point is you believe Hamilton would get harsher treatment whereas the opposite is actually the case. When Hamilton had his meltdown last year he was not at all lambasted on here, I for one didn't post that critically, his actions spoke for themselves. And again this year when he made a series of innapropriate tweets (including one that could have got him fired) nobody even commented on here.

With regards your opinion, it would be hard for Hamilton to not get harsher treatment for the same things done or the same things said as Alonso, considering you haven't been harsh on Alonso at all or in any shape or form - quite the reverse - you have defended his every move.

What i am saying is i don't believe for a second you would be here defending Hamilton. And you would be quite right not to.

WIth regards my opinion that Hamilton got an easy ride and no-one called him out for his tweets here please correct me where I'm wrong with that.

I don't need to be harsh on Alonso here, there are more than enough posts condemning him already. I do defend him and maybe play devil's advocate to some degree, I feel a little 'balance' is required.

[rixalex]

if anyone did what alonso did this year i would have lost respect for them, as for hamilton, it seems to me that almost every race he wins was the best drive of his career come interview time.

the point is, we are not discussing hamilton's actions, we are discussing alonso's, and they left me shaking my head.

I can respect your position, however we're not discussing Alonso's action's per se but rather his treatment on here.

For goodness sake, of course we are discussing Alonso's actions. His actions are at the very nub of this debate. You defend them, other people are left shaking their heads.

You claim that you can accept people criticising Alonso, but when they do, you write it off as Alonso bashing, or say that it is all about who he is and not what he has done. That is not to my mind accepting criticism.

[rixalex]

WIth regards my opinion that Hamilton got an easy ride and no-one called him out for his tweets here please correct me where I'm wrong with that.

Nothing to correct.

I don't need to be harsh on Alonso here, there are more than enough posts condemning him already. I do defend him and maybe play devil's advocate to some degree, I feel a little 'balance' is required.

There is already plenty of balance. If you look back over the course of the season, there was plenty of praise for the way that he was driving. Relentlessly defending him in the way you have has done nothing for balance.

As for not needing to be harsh on Alonso, surely expressing an informed insightful opinion is all about expressing both the good and the bad. If you only ever express the good, and never bother with the bad on the basis that other people are already expressing it, it rather diminishes credibility of what you do say... makes you look rather one-eyed.

[b19bry]

if anyone did what alonso did this year i would have lost respect for them, as for hamilton, it seems to me that almost every race he wins was the best drive of his career come interview time.

the point is, we are not discussing hamilton's actions, we are discussing alonso's, and they left me shaking my head.

I can respect your position, however we're not discussing Alonso's action's per se but rather his treatment on here.

For goodness sake, of course we are discussing Alonso's actions. His actions are at the very nub of this debate. You defend them, other people are left shaking their heads.

You claim that you can accept people criticising Alonso, but when they do, you write it off as Alonso bashing, or say that it is all about who he is and not what he has done. That is not to my mind accepting criticism.

More correctly what we are discussing is Alonso's actions and the response that elicits on this forum. I think the criticism he receives here is excessive and in stark contrast to say Hamilton who has been at least as guilty of some crass acts

[rixalex]

if anyone did what alonso did this year i would have lost respect for them, as for hamilton, it seems to me that almost every race he wins was the best drive of his career come interview time.

the point is, we are not discussing hamilton's actions, we are discussing alonso's, and they left me shaking my head.

I can respect your position, however we're not discussing Alonso's action's per se but rather his treatment on here.

For goodness sake, of course we are discussing Alonso's actions. His actions are at the very nub of this debate. You defend them, other people are left shaking their heads.

You claim that you can accept people criticising Alonso, but when they do, you write it off as Alonso bashing, or say that it is all about who he is and not what he has done. That is not to my mind accepting criticism.

More correctly what we are discussing is Alonso's actions and the response that elicits on this forum. I think the criticism he receives here is excessive and in stark contrast to say Hamilton who has been at least as guilty of some crass acts

But nobody is defending Hamilton for his crass acts. You are defending Alonso for his. You brought up the matter of the tweets and i completely agree. It was utterly stupid and embarrassing. I don't accuse you of Hamilton bashing for saying what you do, or accuse you of just saying that because of who he is, and nor do i defend Hamilton on the basis of "well you are attacking him so someone else should defend him to restore balance". That would be silly.