2012 Formula One Season

[b19bry]

How long will Ferrari put up with Massa underperforming? An odds on him not lasting the season?

Well Perez's drive yesterday must've shortened the odds on that.

[Mosha]

I don't think Alonso would want Perez in that 2nd car.

[PattayaParent]

I don't think Alonso would want Perez in that 2nd car.

According to the commentators in the last 2 races he's the hot favoutite to take Massa's seat and his performance at the weekend must have earned him a lot of brownie points.

The only question now is, would he want to go to a lesser car than he currently has?

[carmine]

I don't think Alonso would want Perez in that 2nd car.

According to the commentators in the last 2 races he's the hot favoutite to take Massa's seat and his performance at the weekend must have earned him a lot of brownie points.

The only question now is, would he want to go to a lesser car than he currently has?

It would be great to see him in the 2nd car. Adds to the competition as opposed to the Dickensian days cat ferrari when the number two wasn't allowed to beat Schumacher! Don't you agree F1fanatic? I'm sure you'll agree we watch the race to see a genuine race and winner.

Alonso judging by his past won't like it either but at the end of the day if this scenario comes to fruition he'll still have had two seasons to motivate the team around his good self.

[F1fanatic]

I don't think Alonso would want Perez in that 2nd car.

I thought that too but (thinking about it more) - perhaps, as a newbie (relatively) he would be OK with understanding Ferrari are built around Alonso? At least he knows that Ferrari have the money to improve their performance and, they have always provided the drivers with equal cars even if the focus is on the 'winning' driver.

Even Barrichello admits that he had the same car. His grievance was that Schumi received optimal strategies etc.

Carmine - heavy sigh - How often was he forced to let Schumi by? Only once/twice I think? But I'm sure you're right that RB would have beaten Schumi if only these odd occasions had not happened .

Its a shame about Massa as he doesn't seem the same since his horrendous accident and, he comes across as such a likeable guy.

Edit - I don't think the Sauber is superior to the Ferrari as, if it was, they would be adopting the same strategies as the top teams.

Edited March 27, 2012 by F1fanatic

[Mosha]

What Ferrari need in that car, is a fast driver without ambitions to win. I'm not certain such a driver exists.

[carmine]

I don't think Alonso would want Perez in that 2nd car.

I thought that too but (thinking about it more) - perhaps, as a newbie (relatively) he would be OK with understanding Ferrari are built around Alonso? At least he knows that Ferrari have the money to improve their performance and, they have always provided the drivers with equal cars even if the focus is on the 'winning' driver.

Even Barrichello admits that he had the same car. His grievance was that Schumi received optimal strategies etc.

Carmine - heavy sigh - How often was he forced to let Schumi by? Only once/twice I think? But I'm sure you're right that RB would have beaten Schumi if only these odd occasions had not happened .

Its a shame about Massa as he doesn't seem the same since his horrendous accident and, he comes across as such a likeable guy.

Edit - I don't think the Sauber is superior to the Ferrari as, if it was, they would be adopting the same strategies as the top teams.

I wasn't just talking about RB. Anyway that aside, i watch the sport for competitive racing and i'll tell you another thing....if you had a score on RB be to win only to see him have to slow done to a standstill to let Schumacher gloriously drive past the chequered flag then you might no be such a big fan either!

You see i believe in the Ron Dennis principal of giving the fans competitive racing, and saying no to the utterly flawed policy of team orders. If everybody followed ferrari's tactics there would be no fans, no sponsors and no F1. And please remind me who Schumi was driving for when he tried to drive Villneuve into a brick wall at 150mph? You've gotta have a lotta clout to get away with that. By getting away with it i mean not being handed a life ban.

Anyway, i'm just pulling your chain as it were!

Edited March 28, 2012 by carmine

[PattayaParent]

Edit - I don't think the Sauber is superior to the Ferrari as, if it was, they would be adopting the same strategies as the top teams.

I guess we'll have to see after a few more representative races but so far it's Perez 2 Massa 0 in terms of higher finishing (and Massa 1-1 with Kobayashi)

[F1fanatic]

I don't think Alonso would want Perez in that 2nd car.

I thought that too but (thinking about it more) - perhaps, as a newbie (relatively) he would be OK with understanding Ferrari are built around Alonso? At least he knows that Ferrari have the money to improve their performance and, they have always provided the drivers with equal cars even if the focus is on the 'winning' driver.

Even Barrichello admits that he had the same car. His grievance was that Schumi received optimal strategies etc.

Carmine - heavy sigh - How often was he forced to let Schumi by? Only once/twice I think? But I'm sure you're right that RB would have beaten Schumi if only these odd occasions had not happened .

Its a shame about Massa as he doesn't seem the same since his horrendous accident and, he comes across as such a likeable guy.

Edit - I don't think the Sauber is superior to the Ferrari as, if it was, they would be adopting the same strategies as the top teams.

I wasn't just talking about RB. Anyway that aside, i watch the sport for competitive racing and i'll tell you another thing....if you had a score on RB be to win only to see him have to slow done to a standstill to let Schumacher gloriously drive past the chequered flag then you might no be such a big fan either!

You see i believe in the Ron Dennis principal of giving the fans competitive racing, and saying no to the utterly flawed policy of team orders. If everybody followed ferrari's tactics there would be no fans, no sponsors and no F1. And please remind me who Schumi was driving for when he tried to drive Villneuve into a brick wall at 150mph? You've gotta have a lotta clout to get away with that. By getting away with it i mean not being handed a life ban.

Anyway, i'm just pulling your chain as it were!

I too watched Austria (2002?) when Reubens was forced to let Schumi by and, I assure you, was as horrified as everyone else. Even Schumi fans thought it was a despicable farce.

However, I was pointing out that team orders were rarely used as they weren't necessary...

Anyway, its pointless pursuing this discussion as you clearly dislike Schumi immensely, whereas I'm a fan - there is not going to be a 'meeting of minds' .

Rather than having fun 'yanking my chain', perhaps this forum would be more enjoyable for everyone if we discuss this season's races and issues rather than just attacking drivers we don't like apropos of nothing?

[rixalex]

You see i believe in the Ron Dennis principal of giving the fans competitive racing, and saying no to the utterly flawed policy of team orders.

I think in general you are right, Dennis does (perhaps that should be "did") have a different outlook to certain other teams, and usually does encourage both his drivers to be competitive against each other, even at times if it be at a cost to both of them, but that is not to say that he has never dabbled with team orders when he has felt it absolutely necessary. Coultard allowed Hakkinen to go past him in 1998 in Australia. I believe they had a pre-race agreement, which is team orders of a sort.

[rixalex]

It was certainly an odd race - and we still have little idea of the true performance of the teams under normal conditions.

As far as I could see, doing well or badly depended largely on luck and/or strategy with only a small element down to the driver? (The cars' performance as a factpr goes without saying.)

I say this as, despite the conditions, few drivers wrecked their own race (only Button and Grosjean spring to mind), and nobody produced a stunning drive with lots of overtaking - apart from possibly Senna who managed to overtake a few cars.

Normally wet races provide odd results, but there is usually more overtaking involved.

Finally, after the re-start, I think the safety car stayed out to long as it seems ridiculous that cars immediately rushed into the pits to change to intermediates! I understand the safety issues, but even so....

Having said this, it was a pleasure to see Perez and Alonso do so well in cars that are definitely not expected front-runners!

Incidentally Steve Slater was really getting on my nerves this race, unlike Karun whose commentary I enjoyed.

Completely agree with all of that, especially the bit about the nonsense we have these days of not allowing the racing to continue with full wets. Yes the conditions might be more dangerous, but isn't it up to the skill of the drivers to show us what they can do?

A good race from Alonso, and congrats to him. He had a little fortune in benefiting from the pit stops, and in Perez making that mistake, when he was surely looking like taking the win, but nevertheless, it was a mature and solid drive.

On the subject of Perez's mistake, i have heard people saying that they suspect some sort of team orders, with Sauber not wishing to get into trouble with their engine supplier. I don't buy this, i think it was just a bit of over-eagerness from a young driver getting excited about the prospect of his first win. I will say however that i did find it strange for his team to be radioing him, not with support for reeling in Alonso, as he was doing a great job of doing, and encouraging him to get past, but with words of caution about taking care of the car. You can understand them not wanting to throw away a second place finish, but it wasn't like Perez was marginally faster than Alonso, he was over a second a lap faster and i don't believe that Alonso had much up his sleeve in terms of performance, so the win really was there for the taking, and perhaps the team should have been a bit more positive.

Hamiton had another unspectacular drive. Yes he was unlucky with being held in the pits, and then he lost time with the team faffing about with gaffer tape on the brakes, but even that aside, he just didn't seem to have great race pace? Has he lost some out and out speed? Well, qualifying doesn't suggest so. Perhaps it's the car, or perhaps it's just a bit of extra maturity in recognising what the car is capable of, and not over driving it. Either way, he must be quite happy with second in the Championship, and that must make up a little for not having converted two poles into any wins.

Button rather screwed things up, after having looked like he was going to have a good race. Whether it was his decision, or that of the team, he certainly did well to pit early. It was unfortunate that he out-braked himself and ran into Narain, but he showed how he is the gent of F1 by immediately admitting it as being his mistake.

On the other hand, Vettel wasn't very gentlemanly with his one finger gesture - not the one we have become accustomed to after a win - and he went on, after the race, to call Narain an idiot. I do think that Vettel had some cause for anger as i think Narain was certainly in part to blame, but it wasn't all his fault, and even if it was, it's a little arrogant to speak in that way about a fellow competitor. I hope he apologises.

As for Massa?! What can one say really?

[F1fanatic]

It was certainly an odd race - and we still have little idea of the true performance of the teams under normal conditions.

As far as I could see, doing well or badly depended largely on luck and/or strategy with only a small element down to the driver? (The cars' performance as a factpr goes without saying.)

I say this as, despite the conditions, few drivers wrecked their own race (only Button and Grosjean spring to mind), and nobody produced a stunning drive with lots of overtaking - apart from possibly Senna who managed to overtake a few cars.

Normally wet races provide odd results, but there is usually more overtaking involved.

Finally, after the re-start, I think the safety car stayed out to long as it seems ridiculous that cars immediately rushed into the pits to change to intermediates! I understand the safety issues, but even so....

Having said this, it was a pleasure to see Perez and Alonso do so well in cars that are definitely not expected front-runners!

Incidentally Steve Slater was really getting on my nerves this race, unlike Karun whose commentary I enjoyed.

Completely agree with all of that, especially the bit about the nonsense we have these days of not allowing the racing to continue with full wets. Yes the conditions might be more dangerous, but isn't it up to the skill of the drivers to show us what they can do?

A good race from Alonso, and congrats to him. He had a little fortune in benefiting from the pit stops, and in Perez making that mistake, when he was surely looking like taking the win, but nevertheless, it was a mature and solid drive.

On the subject of Perez's mistake, i have heard people saying that they suspect some sort of team orders, with Sauber not wishing to get into trouble with their engine supplier. I don't buy this, i think it was just a bit of over-eagerness from a young driver getting excited about the prospect of his first win. I will say however that i did find it strange for his team to be radioing him, not with support for reeling in Alonso, as he was doing a great job of doing, and encouraging him to get past, but with words of caution about taking care of the car. You can understand them not wanting to throw away a second place finish, but it wasn't like Perez was marginally faster than Alonso, he was over a second a lap faster and i don't believe that Alonso had much up his sleeve in terms of performance, so the win really was there for the taking, and perhaps the team should have been a bit more positive.

Hamiton had another unspectacular drive. Yes he was unlucky with being held in the pits, and then he lost time with the team faffing about with gaffer tape on the brakes, but even that aside, he just didn't seem to have great race pace? Has he lost some out and out speed? Well, qualifying doesn't suggest so. Perhaps it's the car, or perhaps it's just a bit of extra maturity in recognising what the car is capable of, and not over driving it. Either way, he must be quite happy with second in the Championship, and that must make up a little for not having converted two poles into any wins.

Button rather screwed things up, after having looked like he was going to have a good race. Whether it was his decision, or that of the team, he certainly did well to pit early. It was unfortunate that he out-braked himself and ran into Narain, but he showed how he is the gent of F1 by immediately admitting it as being his mistake.

On the other hand, Vettel wasn't very gentlemanly with his one finger gesture - not the one we have become accustomed to after a win - and he went on, after the race, to call Narain an idiot. I do think that Vettel had some cause for anger as i think Narain was certainly in part to blame, but it wasn't all his fault, and even if it was, it's a little arrogant to speak in that way about a fellow competitor. I hope he apologises.

As for Massa?! What can one say really?

Its a shame (from the POV of the spectators) that races are red flagged or the safety car brought out so quickly (for rain) nowadays. As far as I can recall, only one driver had an 'off' before the safety car was deployed.

I don't find it strange at all that Sauber would make it clear to their driver (who hasn't won a race yet - so is likely to be a touch over-excited) that second place means a lot of points - that shouldn't be wasted by possibly ending up in an accident.

It seems likely (to me anyway) that Perez's 'incident' was the result of his inexperience - thus explaining the need for the radio message.

Anyway, even if he hadn't had the 'off', catching up with Alonso and overtaking him are entirely different things!

Hamilton's poor pace was probably down to the car - it just wasn't performing v well under those conditions.

I agree 100% about Button and Vettel. Much as I dislike Vettel's 'finger' when he wins, I understand him venting his frustration by using it after his incident with Narain. BUT to be so rude to the press about him is not likeable. He needs to grow up.

[rixalex]

I don't find it strange at all that Sauber would make it clear to their driver (who hasn't won a race yet - so is likely to be a touch over-excited) that second place means a lot of points - that shouldn't be wasted by possibly ending up in an accident.

It seems likely (to me anyway) that Perez's 'incident' was the result of his inexperience - thus explaining the need for the radio message.

I agree about his off being down to inexpereince, but i don't agree with the timing of the message on the radio to him. He was still closing the gap to Alonso and had obviously built up a good rhythm, putting in back to back fastest laps. Let him get on with his job. OK, if once he is on Alonso's tail and looking like he is going to struggle getting past, then perhaps some words of caution.

Anyway, even if he hadn't had the 'off', catching up with Alonso and overtaking him are entirely different things!

Yes that's true. I'm sure Alonso wouldn't have made it easy. I think it would have come down to straight line speed. If the Ferrari was holding its own for out and out speed, and if the DRS didn't offer much advantage, then Perez would have had to try something in the corners, and that would have been tricky. Still, he was so much faster that i tend to agree with Perez's own assessment - the win was his for the taking.

I agree 100% about Button and Vettel. Much as I dislike Vettel's 'finger' when he wins, I understand him venting his frustration by using it after his incident with Narain. BUT to be so rude to the press about him is not likeable. He needs to grow up.

Vettel's first year was in a one year old Red Bull (Torro Rosso) that wasn't such a bad car, and his next two years were in Red Bull's great machine, so, like Hamilton, he has had something of a privileged start to his F1 career. Perhaps it has gone to his head a little.

[F1fanatic]

You could be right as Alonso would also have been considering the points tally. Even so, there wasn't a tremendous amount of overtaking this race, presumably 'cos of the conditions, so I'm not convinced that even with Perez speed advantage he would have been able to overtake such a wily, experienced competitor.

I'm also still inclined to think that Sauber knew from their 'readings' that Perez was a bit too close to the edge - hence the message, not to mention the 'off'.

I agree about Vettel and Hamilton.

[rixalex]

I'm also still inclined to think that Sauber knew from their 'readings' that Perez was a bit too close to the edge - hence the message, not to mention the 'off'.

The off came after the message to look after the car, so i don't think it can of helped much. Perhaps you could argue that it saved him from a bigger off, but i'm more inclined to believe it distracted him and threw him off the rhythm he had built up. Sometimes, unless a driver is really being reckless, i think they should just let them get on with the job of racing the car, and don't start sowing seeds of negativity in the drivers head.

[wackysleet]

Unfortunately I have not seen either of the two races so far, only snippets so I will refrain from passing comment on what I did not see.

My reference re; Lewis facial expressions was not a direct question regarding his character but his apparent inability to view a race as a one off event and forget it and move on, it seems he is in my view carrying a lot of mental baggage to the next race. In my opinion once the race is over it is done and dusted, this is a series of races and is therefor a one off event, not a serial of races where you need to have seen the previous one to be able to follow the sequal, Jenson seems a little more adept at dismissing the previous in response to the future race and seems more at ease within himself. There is no doubt that Lewis has a prodigual talent but at this moment in his career is not the complete package but may well become just that if he can just accept he really is not going to win every race. His own expectations and his often failings and frustrations in my opinion are what is really holding him back, perhaps he should not view things in such a serious light. These are of course my own views and others will not agree I'm sure.

Fernando in my view was totally wrong if he did indeed take his frustrations out on any innocent party, if there had been any provocation then that would perhaps have been a different kettle of fish.

Malaysia, hmmmm, people airing their personal views on Perez performance is what this forum is about, undoubtedly a good performance but with his past history not being particuly impressive I think it was a one off and due entirely to the conditions and sequence of events and is unlikely to be repeated anytime soon, although a talent to be nurtured, not a talent at this stage of his career to take the number 2 seat at Ferrari, and staying where he is may well be of greater benefit in respect of gaining valuable experience as opposed to being expected to be an instant front runner at Maranello.

[b19bry]

Unfortunately I have not seen either of the two races so far, only snippets so I will refrain from passing comment on what I did not see.

My reference re; Lewis facial expressions was not a direct question regarding his character but his apparent inability to view a race as a one off event and forget it and move on, it seems he is in my view carrying a lot of mental baggage to the next race. In my opinion once the race is over it is done and dusted, this is a series of races and is therefor a one off event, not a serial of races where you need to have seen the previous one to be able to follow the sequal, Jenson seems a little more adept at dismissing the previous in response to the future race and seems more at ease within himself. There is no doubt that Lewis has a prodigual talent but at this moment in his career is not the complete package but may well become just that if he can just accept he really is not going to win every race. His own expectations and his often failings and frustrations in my opinion are what is really holding him back, perhaps he should not view things in such a serious light. These are of course my own views and others will not agree I'm sure.

Fernando in my view was totally wrong if he did indeed take his frustrations out on any innocent party, if there had been any provocation then that would perhaps have been a different kettle of fish.

Malaysia, hmmmm, people airing their personal views on Perez performance is what this forum is about, undoubtedly a good performance but with his past history not being particuly impressive I think it was a one off and due entirely to the conditions and sequence of events and is unlikely to be repeated anytime soon, although a talent to be nurtured, not a talent at this stage of his career to take the number 2 seat at Ferrari, and staying where he is may well be of greater benefit in respect of gaining valuable experience as opposed to being expected to be an instant front runner at Maranello.

Actually, Fernando didn't so much take his frustrations out on anyone except himself, he was frustrated and angry with himself in the heat of the moment, judge for yourself :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RENO_vYky0&feature=related

I agree about Perez, the last race was a standout performance from him and he's not really been that impressive before.

For him to jump into what is seen to be a Ferrari that's a handful to drive, part way through the season, with very limited testing, then be pushing Alonso is a pretty tall order. I think to be offered the drive under those circumstances would be something of a poison chalice and might well wreck his career.

Remember back to 2009 when Fisichella almost won the Belgian Grand Prix in a Force India, switched to Ferrari but could only ever qualify near the back of the grid.

I hope (and believe) Ferrari will give Massa the support he deserves over the next few races at least.

[wackysleet]

b19bry.

Having watched that clip I was wondering if that was all there was to it or if there was some more, seems as though the marshall may well have been asking Fernando if he was ok and being somewhat peed off with his mistake was unnecessarily rude but he could have redeemed himself if he had sought the man out afterwards and apologised for being so rude, he makes no friends with that type of attitude but he of course is not alone in losing his rag but nevertheless still poor sportsmanship.

Massa, now there is a sad story, I do not believe that a driver of his ability as shown by missing out on the WDC. by a couple of points has really lost his skills, prior to his head trauma he was up there with the very best.

Having a serious crash may well dent ones confidence when you accept it was your own mistake but his accident was not his fault. My own view is that it is the mental frustration of knowing he has had to play second fiddle for most of his career at Ferrari and that has been eating away at him and his subconcious mind and perhaps he has been wound up too tightly and cannot relax knowing that he has never, apart from one year had an equal opportunity to excel.

Let us take last seasons performance or lack of it with his frequent coming together with Lewis and I am not apportioning blame here but look at Lewis last season, he hardly covered himself in glory and most people believe it was purely down to the state of his mind over numerous personal issues, he certainly had more bumps and scrapes than he has ever had in any previous season and yet no one wrote him off, including me, and this year it would appear that he has emptied his head of the rubbish and knuckled down to it this season. I think getting beaten by Jenson and having to face up to reality is exactly what he needed to get back on track.

I for one would be really disappointed if Ferrari ditch him, sort his head out, do away with their blatant team orders and let him race on equal terms with Fernando, I am not saying that he would beat him on a level playing field but most of Lewis supporters believe he is a better driver than Jenson, he is not, faster yes but he is not the complete package unlike Jenson, Jenson has a very relaxed persona that will always stand him in good stead and has frequently beaten Lewis and I believe Massa is still capable of performing at the very top if he can only clear the frustration and the conspiracy theory that he is being used only to bolster the number one driver, I actually do believe that he has always been the sacrifial lamb for the number one.

Just a thought.

[WarpSpeed]

b19bry.

Having watched that clip I was wondering if that was all there was to it or if there was some more, seems as though the marshall may well have been asking Fernando if he was ok and being somewhat peed off with his mistake was unnecessarily rude but he could have redeemed himself if he had sought the man out afterwards and apologised for being so rude, he makes no friends with that type of attitude but he of course is not alone in losing his rag but nevertheless still poor sportsmanship.

Massa, now there is a sad story, I do not believe that a driver of his ability as shown by missing out on the WDC. by a couple of points has really lost his skills, prior to his head trauma he was up there with the very best.

Having a serious crash may well dent ones confidence when you accept it was your own mistake but his accident was not his fault. My own view is that it is the mental frustration of knowing he has had to play second fiddle for most of his career at Ferrari and that has been eating away at him and his subconcious mind and perhaps he has been wound up too tightly and cannot relax knowing that he has never, apart from one year had an equal opportunity to excel.

Let us take last seasons performance or lack of it with his frequent coming together with Lewis and I am not apportioning blame here but look at Lewis last season, he hardly covered himself in glory and most people believe it was purely down to the state of his mind over numerous personal issues, he certainly had more bumps and scrapes than he has ever had in any previous season and yet no one wrote him off, including me, and this year it would appear that he has emptied his head of the rubbish and knuckled down to it this season. I think getting beaten by Jenson and having to face up to reality is exactly what he needed to get back on track.

I for one would be really disappointed if Ferrari ditch him, sort his head out, do away with their blatant team orders and let him race on equal terms with Fernando, I am not saying that he would beat him on a level playing field but most of Lewis supporters believe he is a better driver than Jenson, he is not, faster yes but he is not the complete package unlike Jenson, Jenson has a very relaxed persona that will always stand him in good stead and has frequently beaten Lewis and I believe Massa is still capable of performing at the very top if he can only clear the frustration and the conspiracy theory that he is being used only to bolster the number one driver, I actually do believe that he has always been the sacrifial lamb for the number one.

Just a thought.

My impression is that Jensons hard work and difficulty in earning his Championship has humbled and mellowed him and provided him with a wealth of confidence that he can do it again whereas Hamilton has had to work very little having gone straight to Mclaren and had things all his way so when it's not going his way he wilts very easily and it shows..

[wackysleet]

WarpSpeed.

It has always been my belief that jumping into a top car as a rookie {I so hate that bloody word} did him no favours at all but just misguidedly gave him the impression that he was unbeatable, well we know that most F1 drivers would/could do well in a top car, apart from Red Bull, Maclaren or Ferrari, who has been in with a chance of winning anything these last seasons with the exception of Vettels great win in the Torro Rosso.

Lewis has a prodigual talent but it needs a bit more than just that. I believe that he was completely and unexpectadly shocked that after his first two very successful seasons it started to come apart as far as continued success is concerned, being the WDC is what it's about, not coming second and therefore being the first loser and he has had a problem of coming to terms with the fact he has not had similar results.

Being beaten fairly comprehensively by Jenson last season was the best thing that could have happened to him and showed him that he needed to do a lot more than just show up at the track, a great reality check.

I hope he does well purely on the basis that he is British but I will never warm to him but I like to see good racing and the best man on the day winning, unfortunately I see successful tactics as being as important in winning as having an outstanding race by a driver which somewhat negates the enjoyment for me.

[Mosha]

When Williams and Mansell were the top dogs, didn't Frank say something like "You could put a monkey in this car and it would still win.' ?

[wackysleet]

Steve.

I don't think a comment like that would go down too well in todays over sensitive world of political correctness, especially with todays grid line up it seems that we should take the words and inspect their meanings before we utter them in case we unintentionally offend someone or perhaps say nothing.

David.

[kartman]

I think the marshall was advising(telling) Alonso to put the steering wheel back on, which as Alonso knows the regs is what pissed him off, if it had been a now deaceased champion from another era the marshall may well have ended up sporting the dearest teeth brace on earth.

[PattayaParent]

When Williams and Mansell were the top dogs, didn't Frank say something like "You could put a monkey in this car and it would still win.' ?

The current Williams monkeys are proving him wrong

[Mosha]

I think the marshall was advising(telling) Alonso to put the steering wheel back on, which as Alonso knows the regs is what pissed him off, if it had been a now deaceased champion from another era the marshall may well have ended up sporting the dearest teeth brace on earth.

I think the marshall was advising(telling) Alonso to put the steering wheel back on, which as Alonso knows the regs is what pissed him off, if it had been a now deaceased champion from another era the marshall may well have ended up sporting the dearest teeth brace on earth.

The marshall probably wasn't a long time Ozzy. A true Ozzy would have kicked him in the nuts,

[Mosha]

When Williams and Mansell were the top dogs, didn't Frank say something like "You could put a monkey in this car and it would still win.' ?

The current Williams monkeys are proving him wrong

When Williams and Mansell were the top dogs, didn't Frank say something like "You could put a monkey in this car and it would still win.' ?

The current Williams monkeys are proving him wrong

Lol This years car may deserve better drivers. Maybe Reubens left too soon. I admit I do like to see the team do well.

[b19bry]

When Williams and Mansell were the top dogs, didn't Frank say something like "You could put a monkey in this car and it would still win.' ?

It was supposedly Senna who said it of the Williams when Prost was driving it........say no more

[b19bry]

Lol This years car may deserve better drivers. Maybe Reubens left too soon. I admit I do like to see the team do well.

Sadly, Rubinho didn't get too much choice, money talks, Williams could well do with his experience now.

[b19bry]

b19bry. Having watched that clip I was wondering if that was all there was to it or if there was some more,

I can well understand why you may have thought there was more to it, but no, bit of a non-incident that we see all the time really.

Massa, now there is a sad story, I do not believe that a driver of his ability as shown by missing out on the WDC. by a couple of points has really lost his skills, prior to his head trauma he was up there with the very best. Having a serious crash may well dent ones confidence when you accept it was your own mistake but his accident was not his fault. My own view is that it is the mental frustration of knowing he has had to play second fiddle for most of his career at Ferrari and that has been eating away at him and his subconcious mind and perhaps he has been wound up too tightly and cannot relax knowing that he has never, apart from one year had an equal opportunity to excel. Let us take last seasons performance or lack of it with his frequent coming together with Lewis

I never thought of Massa as 'top drawer' (though he's one of the nicest guys on the grid), he can be quick but he's always been too inconsistent, when Alonso went to Ferrari he was always going to be on a hiding to nowhere as we have seen. Having said that he's not been the same since his accident.

[rixalex]

I can well understand why you may have thought there was more to it, but no, bit of a non-incident that we see all the time really.

Drivers taking their frustrations out on marshalls isn't anything new and Alonso is far from being the only one to have done so, but it is never excusable.Had Luca di Montezemolo or Stefano Domenicali been standing outside his car offering to help him, would he have acted to petulantly? Of course not.

Drivers who take out their frustrations on marshalls do so because i believe they perceive them as nobodies. Not cool.

At the very least, as wackysleet says, a public apology should have been made. And then a line is drawn under it. All the time no apology is made, and all the time you have people arguing that this is acceptable behaviour, feelings will remain.