Snake on side of road On Nut

[GregCV]

I have used Charles Schwab Bank for about a dozen years, and in my mind it is the best bank available. I pay no fees whatsoever. All ATM fees are credited back to me at the end of each month, and I have used my card all over the world in all kinds of bank machines. I have no account charges, and they actually pay me interest on my balance each month (albeit the rate is tiny). There are no foreign conversion fees which really got to me from other banks. Most American banks charge 3%, and I got that charge even when I would buy an air ticket from a foreign airline in a US office --- where I know the money went into their US bank account (like buying a ticket at the EVA counter in San Francisco airport). I have had a few times that I had trouble --- not from the bank --- things like a check to me stolen and other weird stuff. The customer service at Charles Schwab Bank is the best, and the CS operators are Americans located in the US so there is no trouble understanding them (I remember having so many problems dealing with customer service in India for other banks like Chase).

Only one caveat: You have to have a US address. The bank is not there to service expats, so you have to have a real mailing location and phone number in the US or they will not open the account and may shut you down if you lose your US location. For me, that's OK since I own a house (which I can't sell because of the economy there) in California. And I actually have a phone number. I go back there at least a couple of times a year for a couple of weeks, so stretching it I am living in the US and visit Thailand a lot (the rest of the time),

But I cannot give that bank enough praise. It is the best bank I have ever used --- and I think I have used most US retail banks at least some time in my life.

[hhgz]

"You have to have a US address."

If you do not have a US address, your account probably needs to be serviced via the Schwab office in Hong Kong. Both of my US brokers know that I live in BKK, and I never had any problem whatsoever. When a third-party transfer was returned to the sender, the forwarding bank charged a $30 fee, and Schwab even refunded that. I can't recommend them highly enough.

[ericg1953]

Agree about Schwab having great customer service as well as great fees and easy transaction program. I recommend them highly and never use their atm to reap the benefits of free atm use.

[55Jay]

"Now I didn't open a back account with CapOne; I only got their credit card. But if you open a bank account also they also have a no foreign fee debit card but I'm not sure it will work in a AEON ATM (but does work in Thai bank ATMs) since the debit card uses the Cirrus network which AEON don't support....I think that's the way it goes...there were several ThaiVisa threads on this CapOne debit card subject 6-12 months ago. Maybe some one out their listening and having a CapOne debit card can provide confirmation/clarification."

My CAP1 Bank MC Debit/ATM card didn't work for me at Aeon Korat Mall last time we were over. Worked at the rainbow of other Thai bank ATMs, no issues and no 1% FT Fee.

FYI - CAP1 Bank only picked up on one (1) of the 150 Baht fees on their own. End of the month emailed them through on-line CS, they said send them a list, did that using statement as reference, and they reimbursed the other 150 Baht charges within a day. Didn't have to send the ATM receipts. There is a monthly limit on reimbursements, either $10 or $20 (don't recall) but mine fell just under the limit.

Made me open a Schwab account a couple months ago though, will test drive at AEON next month. Keeping CAP1 Bank DC/ATM as a back up.

Continue to use CAP1 MC for everything possible. As advertised, no 1% FT Fees, no issues, nice little rewards program, got the same offer PIB talked about, didn't notice it was no longer offered though. Bummer.

Edited November 5, 2012 by 55Jay

[Pib]

Yea, the no foreign transaction fee CapOne Mastercard that provides 2% cash back for most buys like all my Lotus, Big C, and vehicle fuel buys (even my beer buys at Lotus/Big C) and 1% on everything else is no longer offered. No other fine-print like you don't start earning 2%/1% until you spend so much each year like the fine print in many cards. Glad I got it when it was offered and hope it don't change. I use the card at Lotus, Big C, HomePro, fuel stations, restaurants, medicals, just about anywhere credit cards are accepted. Use of the card pays for many of my day-to-day significant living expenses...and I have my cash reward level setup to automatically provide a credit to my credit card account/bill whenever I earn $25 in cash back credit--and it don't take long to reach to earn $25 cash back since I'm using that credit card all the time to include my Ebay buys where I get 1% cash back. A card transaction has never been disapproved and after using the card going on 2 years I've never had to call CapOne regarding my overseas address (i.e, a military APO address in Thailand) to get the card to work---I mean where you hear stories of having to call a credit card company every 90 days or so to notify them you will be in country XYZ during a certain time period to ensure they don't lock-out your card because they think someone skimmed your card/fraudulent use may be going on. Yeap, knock on wood, no complaints regarding the card.

[Langsuan Man]

Pib

I also have the Cap One credit card but interestingly enough this year when I notified them that I was going back to Thailand they told me that I would have to call them again to renew the notification in 60 days. Annoyed me, especially when questioned they stated that this was their policy and I would have to live with it. If it wasn't such a good deal I would cancel the card but I am sure not going to cut off my nose to spite my face

October 16, 2012 02:17 AM Subject: Re: Account terms (fees, APR, etc.) Message:

Dear XXXXXXX

Thanks for contacting us about your Capital One account.

We regret that you are dissatisfied with our previous response. Due to

our current policy, we are unable to set up the travel notification for

8 months.

If you have any questions, please give us a call at 1-800-955-7070. Our

Customer Service Representatives are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a

week.

Sincerely,

Capital One

© 2011 Capital One. Capital One is a federally registered service mark.

All rights reserved.

Original Message Follows:

------------------------

Account ending in: xxxx

I'm sorry I don't quite understand why I have to notify you again in

December ? If I know I am going to be overseas for 8 months shouldn't

that be enough! There was no requirement to re-notify last year for the

same period of time

Dear XXXXXXX

Thanks for contacting us about your Capital One account.

We have placed a notification concerning your travel on your account

until December 17, 2012 please contact us on December 18, 2012 and we

will be happy to assist you with extending the notification on your

account.

[Pib]

Yea, I've heard that...I think most credit/debit card companies generally follow that policy, but exception do seem to exist. In my case, the only address they have on file for me (and the wife for her cards under our joint account) is my military APO address here in Thailand. That APO P.O. box-type address is my residential and mailing address they have on file...no other address. Since an APO address is an official U.S. postal system address for a military retiree/active duty residing overseas somewhere maybe that makes a difference compared to someone who applied/got approved with a standard U.S. residential address (i.e., physically within the U.S.). But I've seen posts here on ThaiVisa of other people who have CapOne cards and live in Thailand full time with just a U.S. residential address who say they have never had to contact CapOne to keep their card working/or only had to contact them once; but I've also posts like yours where they do have to contact CapOne...and also contact other companies related to their cards. I'll just continue to knock on wood with my CapOne card....and also my other no foreign transaction fee credit/debit cards like with State Farm Bank, Pentagon Federal Credit Union, and Schwab which "do" have my U.S. residential address and my APO address only as the mailing address...I've never had any issues in using their cards in Thailand like having to call them periodically to keep them working...and I've been using above mentioned cards almost two years now. Yeap, knocking on wood. Maybe it also has something to do with buying/use patterns which shows 95% use of my cards within Thailand for checkout/physical buys and the other 5% in online buys mostly off my U.S. Ebay account versus bouncing back and forth between countries for checkout/physical buys.

[Jayman]

Anyone here have any experience with USAA https://www.usaa.com

They are for Active duty military but now they take ex-mil as well. They reimburse for all fees you might get charged and generally charge no fees to have an account with them.

[Langsuan Man]

They will only re-reimburse ATM fees for ATM's in the US. Their credit cards charge a 1% foreign currency transaction fee, other than these two gotchas they are a great organization

[TwentyBaht]

Another nice feature of USAA Bank is account holders can have foreign address.

[JimGant]

They will only re-reimburse ATM fees for ATM's in the US. Their credit cards charge a 1% foreign currency transaction fee, other than these two gotchas they are a great organization

I've only used my Schwab ATM card these last few years, but before that, I did use my USAA ATM card -- and did have Thai 150 baht ATM fees reimbursed -- if I sent in copies of the ATM receipt (which I could do on-line). However, unlike Schwab, the ATM transaction passes on the 1% foreign transaction fee.

Yes, the 1% foreign currency transaction fee is passed-on (from both their Visa and MasterCard credit cards). But both these cards have a 1% cash back feature (after amassing $20k in charges), so it's a wash to me. Always looked at this as "good enuf, " but guess I could do better with a Cap One credit card. However, I just like the service I've gotten with USAA for nearly fifty years -- enough so that I've not looked to squeeze the extra dime (well, ok, I did switch to Schwab for ATM transactions, which was rather painless).

I think their bank accounts (but maybe not credit cards.....) are now open to everyone, regardless of military affiliation (insurance, etc are still more restrictive as to military pedigree).

Edited November 10, 2012 by JimGant

[Jayman]

Thanks for the feedback on USAA. I know they pass on the 1% fee from visa/mastercard. They don't eat that fee like capitol one claims to do. Not sure if that fee is charged when using the ATM in Thailand. Can anyone confirm this? I use AEON atm's anyways so no 150thb fee to get credited back. Would be nice to know there is no added 1% fee though.

As for their accounts being open to anyone, I don't think so. I know they recently opened up to veterans and when I signed up last month they wanted my Military record to process my application.

From Jim's post above it does sound like you will pay a 1% fee when using your USAA ATM card in Thailand. That's a bummer. I was not expecting that.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Jayman

[Pib]

Another nice feature of USAA Bank is account holders can have foreign address.

My only address with them is my APO address here in Thailand. I did the signup (a joint account) totally online. USAA is one of my main bank accounts...I use it for all my U.S. BillPay type stuff....like receiving my CapOne credit card ebill and then using USAA billpay to pay the bill. I keep USAA's debit card locked up in my safe since it charges a small foriegn transaction fee...and the one time I used it as a test in a Bangkok Bank ATM I didn't get reimbursed the 150 baht foreign card until I provided a copy of the ATM receipt to USAA showing the transaction fee...did all of this via email. USAA said some overseas ATM transactions are not identified clearly enough for them to automatically reimburse....I figured that was BS...as mentioned I got my reimbursement and the card now lives in my safe...I'll will only use it for non-foreign transactions. Barring this, USAA is a very good and expat friendly bank since military retirees have a habit of retiring all over the world.

[JimGant]

As for their accounts being open to anyone, I don't think so. I know they recently opened up to veterans and when I signed up last month they wanted my Military record to process my application.

For those without any military connection, there is this:

Limited Eligibility

Limited membership is also available to others but excludes auto insurance and some banking services. Banking services open to those not on the fully eligible list include checking and savings, CDs, IRAs, youth savings accounts, pre-paid credit cards and credit cards. Life insurance is available to those without a military connection but property insurance is not. All investment products are available.

Read more: USAA Eligibility Requirements | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz2Bq8duC1u

One banking service not available for the pure civilians is the ability to scan and deposit checks on-line. (Why this is available to someone with a military connection, but not to a limited eligible, seems a little weird....) But, I do see where credit cards are available, so I was wrong in an earlier post.

Not sure what else is denied to limited members.......(?). Probably nothing of much significance.

Jayman, did you sign-up from Thailand? (I ask because I remember USAA saying Thailand was one of those countries that required a US address for initial sign-up. Maybe this is only for limited eligibles..... APO addresses are ok, tho')

[Jayman]

I did sign up from Thailand but I provided a US address of a family member. I see now that my accounts are created I can change my physical address to Thailand. I will probably do that once everything seems established.

Another selling point for me is that they don't charge a fee for incoming international wires. I now see they are not part of the swift system and any wires must go through an intermediary bank which will no doubt pass a fee onto me.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Jayman

[Langsuan Man]

I did sign up from Thailand but I provided a US address of a family member. I see now that my accounts are created I can change my physical address to Thailand. I will probably do that once everything seems established.

Another selling point for me is that they don't charge a fee for incoming international wires. I now see they are not part of the swift system and any wires must go through an intermediary bank which will no doubt pass a fee onto me.

Yes, but they do charge $35 for outgoing wires to Thailand

Wire Transfer Fees

Domestic Outgoing: $20

International Outgoing: $35

Incoming: No charge

[Pib]

SWIFT fees are almost always high regardless of the bank with USAA's probably being on the low side of average. But as long as a person has a Bangkok Bank account they can use ACH transfers which USAA does not charge for, but there will be a $5-10 fee (depending on transfer amount) charged by the Bangkok Bank New York branch as the ACH transfer flows through them onto a person's local Bangkok Bank branch. See this Link for specific fees.

So, say a person transfers $2000 monthly to their Bangkok Bank account, the USAA ACH transfer fee is $0, the Bangkok Bank NY branch flow-thru fee is $5 for a $2000 amount, and the receiving/conversion fee on the Bangkok Bank local branch end is 0.25% (B200 min, B500 max) which would be B200 (approx $6.50) for a $2000 amount....total transfer $11.50.

Now if a person transferred that $2000 amount via SWIFT say with a SWIFT fee of $35 (from any US bank), no flow-thru fee at the Bangkok Bank NY branch since the branch is not being used in this non-ACH transfer, and the $6.50 receiving/conversion fee on the Thai bank end (all Thai banks charge approx the same 0.25% (B200 min, B500 max fee)....total transfer cost $41.50.

Quite a difference between $41.50 and $11.50 in transfer fees...a $30 savings. Now the SWIFT transfer would have got the money to your bank in 1-2 business days compared to 2-3 business days for a ACH transfer....but to save $30 I'm more than willing to wait an extra day or two. But hey, I don't do ACH transfers anymore since I've got a couple of no foreign transaction fee debit cards (Schwab and State Farm) which gives me a combined daily ATM withdrawal amount of $2000 or over B60,000....slide those two cards into the AEON ATM at my local Tesco Lotus mall to get B60,000 immediately put into my hands, then take about 20 steps to the Bangkok Bank oulet in the mall which has a Cash Deposit Machine, stick that B60,000 into the deposit machine, and in 5 to 10 minutes I have got money from my U.S. bank accounts physically in hand and deposited it in my Thai bank accounts....totally fee-free from transfer start to finish...and also didn't have to wait X-business days to get the money into my Thai bank account.

Yeap, no foreign transaction fee debit cards can sure ease the fee-and-wait pains of wire-type transfers, but SWIFT/ACH transfer do come in handy for get BIG chunks of money quickly in case a person don't have the time to do X-amount of daily debit card withdrawals/deposits to build up that big chunk of money needed for a big buy. Heck, it's been around 18 months since I did an ACH transfer for an earlier big money need...between my State Farm and Schwab debt cards they more than easily cover all my day-to-day cash money needs...throw in use of two no foreign transaction fee "credit" cards I have and use for day-to-day buys which I pay off month using USAA BillPay and my need for wire-type transfers has pretty much dropped to zero. Nothing special about USAA BillPay...I could have used the BillPay function in my other U.S. bank accounts like Schwab Bank but I just ended up using USAA since I figured they might be the most expat-friendly now and in the future. And actually, for my debit card withdrawals State Farm is currently my prime bank. Knock on wood my debit and credit cards remain to be no foreign transaction fee cards. Preaching to the choir I know for those of you having such cards.

And where JimGant mentioned that USAA check scanning/depositing...I use that probably a dozen times a year to deposit medical insurance reimbursement checks...absolute piece of cake...so, so easy to use...and the money is immediately posted to your account. State Farm Bank has the same feature but I haven't used it yet. Yes sir, no foreign transaction fee debit and credit cards can greatly reduce financial headaches offered by the Thai banking system.

[Jayman]

As I stated, usaa is NOT part of the swift system as stated clearly on there site. Any incoming transfers will have to go through another bank that will change a fee.

I'm not concerned with getting money back into the US banking system as I already have a free method using money bookers. I am more concerned with getting money out of the US and to Thailand directly for the lowest cost. Sounds like the bkk bank route is the way to go. I was unaware that even they charge a fee for that so thanks for the info.

[Pib]

As far as I know, Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank which has an operation in the U.S. which is their New York operation and this operation has a routing number which therefore permits ACH transfers. Use the New York branch routing number and your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account number...I use to do this all the time until I got my no foreign transaction fee debit cards. Assuming your U.S. bank does not charge anything for an ACH transfer (like Schawb, USAA, and many more...of course many of the evil banks do charge a low ACH fee) your only fees will be the Bangkok Bank NY branch flow-thru fee and the in-Thailand 0.25% (B200 min, B500 max) fee. As mentioned earlier all Thai banks charge an approx 0.25% fee to receive funds. Now if you don't have a Bangkok Bank account but an account with another Thai bank then you are pretty much stuck with using SWIFT along with the typical high fee plus the in-Thailand 0.25% receiving fee.

[Jayman]

It's the "flow-thru fee" that is news to me. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I've always been aware that the thai banks charge an incoming wire fee (as do most of the US banks) but the flow through fee is not something I'm familiar with.

Also, the incoming wire fee is not transparent for my Thai bank (scb). They just show the incoming amount already converted to THB without a separate line item for the fee. It was only after I pressed the issue in a branch that they told me that's it's 500thb. So now I add 500thb onto the amount recieved when I want to verify the conversion rate that was applied to my transaction. SCB always gives me a very fair conversion rate on incoming wires.

[Pib]

They provide whatever their TT Buying Rate is....the TT Buying Rate is what all Thai banks provide for incoming transfers (i.e., SWIFT, ACH, etc) assuming the sender hasn't selected some squirrelly method fee-wise when sending the money. SCB charges 0.25% (B300 min, B500 max)...Link....but this link does indicate its the fee for incoming money into a foreign currency account....for incoming money going to a regular baht saving account maybe its different....I can't seem to find this fee on the SCB pages. But if the fee in above link also applies to a regular baht account, please note their minimum fee is B300 compared to Bangkok Bank's min fee of B200. What the Thai banks do is when receiving funds is first convert the funds to baht using their TT Buying Rate, then substrate their fee, and then post it to your account....as you mentioned you won't probably won't see that receiving fee anywhere unless you talk to them....you only see the posted amount. This is what confuses some folks in trying to figure out what exchange rate they got.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Pib

[Jayman]

They provide whatever their TT Buying Rate is....the TT Buying Rate is what all Thai banks provide for incoming transfers (i.e., SWIFT, ACH, etc) assuming the sender hasn't selected some squirrelly method fee-wise when sending the money. SCB charges 0.25% (B300 min, B500 max)...Link....but this link does indicate its the fee for incoming money into a foreign currency account....for incoming money going to a regular baht saving account maybe its different....I can't seem to find this fee on the SCB pages. But if the fee in above link also applies to a regular baht account, please note their minimum fee is B300 compared to Bangkok Bank's min fee of B200. What the Thai banks do is when receiving funds is first convert the funds to baht using their TT Buying Rate, then substrate their fee, and then post it to your account....as you mentioned you won't probably won't see that receiving fee anywhere unless you talk to them....you only see the posted amount. This is what confuses some folks in trying to figure out what exchange rate they got.

Well what I am talking about is not a deposit into a foreign currency account as per that pdf you linked but a swift deposit into a THB account. I was told by many banks (both here and in the US) that it's the LAW that you must send money to Thailand in a foreign currency. I repeat, you CANNOT transfer money here in THB. You must send in a foreign currency and the Thai banks will convert it to THB for you at their posted rates. Many years ago I tried to have the US bank convert it to THB and send it and it was rejected. The fee schedule of .25% (min 300-max 500) seems to be for funding foreign currency accounts. I was told several times by SCB that it's a flat fee of 500thb for SWIFT transfer funding a THB account. Since this is never printed in my bank book or online banking statement I must take them for their word. I can say that when I was transfer money from the US to my SCB business account we would go in and get physical printouts of the incoming transfers and there they would list the 500thb fee. For All I know we were always sending an amount that would cap the fee at 500thb. I would love to see this in writing from the bank somewhere but I have yet to find it.

\

The pdf you posted was as close to finding it as I've ever seen but what you posted was SPECIFICALLY for foreign currency accounts and made no mention for THB accounts.

[JimGant]

I was told by many banks (both here and in the US) that it's the LAW that you must send money to Thailand in a foreign currency. I repeat, you CANNOT transfer money here in THB.

Interesting so many banks gave out the wrong information........

Now, for sure, you would never want to send THB from the US to Thailand, as the FX rate in the US is horrendous compared to what you'd get exchanging dollars to THB within Thailand (thinly traded currency, and all that). But, as many pages on this forum can attest to, folks have moaned about the atrocious exchange rate they've gotten -- until they remembered they hadn't checked the "send dollars" box on the wire instructions.

Now, Bank of America charges $45 for a wire transfer (SWIFT encoded, of course) if sent in dollars. However, if you wanted to send baht instead, the wire fee is only $35. Talk about trolling -- I wonder how many folks have thought, "Yeah, I can save 10 bucks by converting to baht here in the States." Phucking banks.

[Jayman]

I was told by many banks (both here and in the US) that it's the LAW that you must send money to Thailand in a foreign currency. I repeat, you CANNOT transfer money here in THB.

Interesting so many banks gave out the wrong information........

Now, for sure, you would never want to send THB from the US to Thailand, as the FX rate in the US is horrendous compared to what you'd get exchanging dollars to THB within Thailand (thinly traded currency, and all that). But, as many pages on this forum can attest to, folks have moaned about the atrocious exchange rate they've gotten -- until they remembered they hadn't checked the "send dollars" box on the wire instructions.

Now, Bank of America charges $45 for a wire transfer (SWIFT encoded, of course) if sent in dollars. However, if you wanted to send baht instead, the wire fee is only $35. Talk about trolling -- I wonder how many folks have thought, "Yeah, I can save 10 bucks by converting to baht here in the States." Phucking banks.

That's why I'm thankful we have forums like this where we can share experiences and dispel the BS that is fed to us from many sources.

[Pib]

I repeat, you CANNOT transfer money here in THB. You must send in a foreign currency and the Thai banks will convert it to THB for you at their posted rates. Many years ago I tried to have the US bank convert it to THB and send it and it was rejected.

Good for you the bank sent in baht, but a person can transfer money to Thailand already converted to Thai baht at many banks. Many of the less evil banks won't offer that choice but many of the more evil (fee-hungry) banks will. U.S. banks will smile big when you choose to do so as it makes them a nice profit through the lower exchange they give. It's a nice profit maker for banks...just like the Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) scheme which gives many people a warm fuzzy that they are charging/paying for something in their home country currency or getting money out of an ATM using the bank's DCC rate. Usually, using DCC will get you around a 3-4% lower exchange rate as will letting the bank convert the money to foreign currency (i.e., dollars to Thai baht) before sending. Never, ever let the bank convert before sending and never ever use DCC....bad, very bad for the customer...but good, very good for the bank.

And here's the real bitch about using DCC, your home country bank will still probably charge you their own "foreign transaction fee(s)" which just rubs salt into the wound since their foreign transaction fee is not based on whether you charged/bought something in dollars or baht, but based on the fact it was a "foreign tranaction"...transaction occurred in a foreign country. So, if your bank say charges a 3% foreign transaction fee and you also used DCC in the foreign country which effectively gives a 3% lower exchange rate, you have just been whacked with fees of 6% which causes a huge smile on the face of the banks and possibly a frown on the customer's face if they notice/calculate the total cost of the transfer in terms of exchange rate and all fees.

And don't be surprised when the choices appear as to whether you want to transfer in home country currency or foreign currency....or maybe using a credit card to buy something or getting money from an ATM with the DCC rate being offered as a selection...that the wording displayed to the customer is vague and slanted which many times convinces (tricks) the customer to choosing "send in foreign currency"..."use DCC."

I know I have mixed in DCC using for paying for things/getting money from an ATM in foreign countries with the subject of money transfers where the sending bank converts to Thai baht before sending, but they are related and both are bad, very bad for the customer but good, very good for the sending bank. And the receiving bank for inbound money transfers usually still charge their receiving/conversion fee with emphasis on the "receiving" part since no money conversion had to occur but they still had to receive the money. Banks can get a person coming and going on fees. Yeap, big smiles for the banks; big frowns for the customers.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Pib