pauljones Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just a heads up to check your bank accounts. My self and a friend recently had our accounts hacked in Pattaya. The bank reports 10 transactions in Poland and my friends account had similar activity in the Ukraine. Usually I am very careful and only use ATMs attached to Banks and try to avoid the freestanding machines. No idea how they got my card PIN numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 A few questions: Are these Thai bank ATM or credit cards? Are they foreign bank ATM or credt cards? If Thai, at least for the basic ATM cards, they don't work on foreign ATM or POS networks, so no danger to holders of these type of cards. I would imagine it's much the same for Thai credit cards as well. Does (did) anyone other than yourself have access to the card and PIN recently? Especially in Pattaya, where there are many short-term relationships, this is where much of the problem occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinegirl Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I had mine hacked as well when I first came here. You might have a hard time getting it all back.we had such a fight on our hands as the machine captured me speaking to a friend and they said I could have gave them the pin number and they did it. Despite them having atm photos of the culprits. As for Thai bank cards not working ouside Thailand.I have used mine in Singapore and Malaysia to get money from the Atm no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I had mine hacked as well when I first came here. You might have a hard time getting it all back.we had such a fight on our hands as the machine captured me speaking to a friend and they said I could have gave them the pin number and they did it. Despite them having atm photos of the culprits. As for Thai bank cards not working ouside Thailand.I have used mine in Singapore and Malaysia to get money from the Atm no problems. Well, none of my Thai ATM cards work outside LOS (ones from Bangkok Bank, Bank Ayudha, or Kasikorn). However, as I mentioned, these are the "basic" cards and there are "inter" cards one can get that will work outside Thailand. People can decide for themselves which type of card is appropriate for them. As to your problem, can you describe it more specifically? You state that apparently you lost money from a Thai bank account from someone using your ATM card and/or PIN code...I understand there are many ways the card's number can be stolen without one's knowledge during ordinary use of the card but how did someone get your PIN code as well? Money cannot be taken out of an ATM without the PIN and it is the cardholders responsibility to guard this code with their life! I don't blame the banks for taking a tough stand with these type of theft claims...otherwise everyone would be out there claiming money stolen from their accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 First, when you say that somebody took cash out of your account from an ATM in Poland / Ukraine, then you can safely assume that your card has been skimmed at an ATM (skimming device put over the card reader slot) and your PIN code has been captured either using a mini camera attached somewhere on the ATM or by using a fake keyboard put over the real keyboard of the ATM. This is the standard practice. As to WHERE this happened, look at where you did your last GENUINE ATM transaction and you can again assume that one of those ATM's has been manipulated. Normally (standard practice here in Switzerland), the bank would send it's own security personnel and the police to go and check these ATM's and find signs of the manipulation (i.e. some glue left from the attached skimming devices). As for safety measuer, that is why I NEVER use free standing ATM's (neither in Switzerland nor in Thailand) but only the ones inside banks / shopping malls. These tend to be very difficult to be manipulated by the fraudsters due to the human traffick and monitoring of the machines. And ALWAYS I use my hand / wallet / piece of paper to cover my PIN entry in order to have it secured and - where offered by the bank - I have activated SMS alerts for every transaction from my account in order to be able to IMMEDIATELY report any fraudulent transactions to the bank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evermaat Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 First, when you say that somebody took cash out of your account from an ATM in Poland / Ukraine, then you can safely assume that your card has been skimmed at an ATM (skimming device put over the card reader slot) and your PIN code has been captured either using a mini camera attached somewhere on the ATM or by using a fake keyboard put over the real keyboard of the ATM. This is the standard practice.As to WHERE this happened, look at where you did your last GENUINE ATM transaction and you can again assume that one of those ATM's has been manipulated. Normally (standard practice here in Switzerland), the bank would send it's own security personnel and the police to go and check these ATM's and find signs of the manipulation (i.e. some glue left from the attached skimming devices). As for safety measuer, that is why I NEVER use free standing ATM's (neither in Switzerland nor in Thailand) but only the ones inside banks / shopping malls. These tend to be very difficult to be manipulated by the fraudsters due to the human traffick and monitoring of the machines. And ALWAYS I use my hand / wallet / piece of paper to cover my PIN entry in order to have it secured and - where offered by the bank - I have activated SMS alerts for every transaction from my account in order to be able to IMMEDIATELY report any fraudulent transactions to the bank. What thai bank do you use? "2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from TV android app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 As for safety measuer, that is why I NEVER use free standing ATM's (neither in Switzerland nor in Thailand) but only the ones inside banks / shopping malls. These tend to be very difficult to be manipulated by the fraudsters due to the human traffick and monitoring of the machines. And ALWAYS I use my hand / wallet / piece of paper to cover my PIN entry in order to have it secured and - where offered by the bank - I have activated SMS alerts for every transaction from my account in order to be able to IMMEDIATELY report any fraudulent transactions to the bank. What thai bank do you use? "2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from TV android app. Assume you want to ask about the Thai account with SMS alert? Well, I don't have that, as I (still) live in Switzerland and thus, my Thai mobile is not in use most of the time. But I do have two accounts, my savings / retirement account for money transfers. For this account, my ATM card is never ever used and safely here in Switzerland. I then transfer money from this account to my transaction account which I use for money withdrawal. On this account, there is never more than 100K Baht just to limit my losses in case of fraud / card skimming... yes, card skimming could also happen to me, even though I am protecting my card / PIN very well and I always check the ATM for sings of manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbooks Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I got a call yesterday from HSBC security in the UK telling me the believed my card had been 'Copied' here in Thailand and they were cancelling it. The last two transactions I did at an ATM where at the Bangkok Bank on soi Khao noi...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljones Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 My ATM Card is attached to Charles Schwab in the USA and they are taking the hit on the transactions. Schwab notified me by email that there were unusual transactions and asked if I recently traveled to Poland. Nobody but me has the PIN# so they must have been watching me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My ATM Card is attached to Charles Schwab in the USA and they are taking the hit on the transactions. Schwab notified me by email that there were unusual transactions and asked if I recently traveled to Poland. Nobody but me has the PIN# so they must have been watching me. My ATM Card is attached to Charles Schwab in the USA and they are taking the hit on the transactions. Schwab notified me by email that there were unusual transactions and asked if I recently traveled to Poland. Nobody but me has the PIN# so they must have been watching me. I also use Schwab as does a friend of mine here. He also was notified by Schwab of the same thing in Poland happening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My ATM Card is attached to Charles Schwab in the USA and they are taking the hit on the transactions. Schwab notified me by email that there were unusual transactions and asked if I recently traveled to Poland. Nobody but me has the PIN# so they must have been watching me. Quite possible... as I said before, even for a pro like me, it is almost impossible to see whether an ATM has some additional device attached for skimming (too many different types of ATM and VERY high sophisticated skimming devices) and the spy cam that records (and transmits in real time) your PIN entry is so small, it is almost impossible to see. So the only advice is EVEN if nobody is around, cover your PIN entry with whatever means you have. P.S.: of course it does not help American card holders that their cards to not have EMV Chip security... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirbrinkie Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Kasikorn and I assume all Banks do have a great alert system via your mobile phone and you are continually alerted whenever there is any action on your cards or indeed on your account all for the princely sum of 20baht a month charge - you then also have a emergency number you call to cancel all transaction etc... If you are overseas and not using your mobile it can be transfered to your email address if you have signed up for cyber banking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinegirl Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I had mine hacked as well when I first came here. You might have a hard time getting it all back.we had such a fight on our hands as the machine captured me speaking to a friend and they said I could have gave them the pin number and they did it. Despite them having atm photos of the culprits. As for Thai bank cards not working ouside Thailand.I have used mine in Singapore and Malaysia to get money from the Atm no problems. Well, none of my Thai ATM cards work outside LOS (ones from Bangkok Bank, Bank Ayudha, or Kasikorn). However, as I mentioned, these are the "basic" cards and there are "inter" cards one can get that will work outside Thailand. People can decide for themselves which type of card is appropriate for them. As to your problem, can you describe it more specifically? You state that apparently you lost money from a Thai bank account from someone using your ATM card and/or PIN code...I understand there are many ways the card's number can be stolen without one's knowledge during ordinary use of the card but how did someone get your PIN code as well? Money cannot be taken out of an ATM without the PIN and it is the cardholders responsibility to guard this code with their life! I don't blame the banks for taking a tough stand with these type of theft claims...otherwise everyone would be out there claiming money stolen from their accounts. I bank with SCB. I only had made 3 withdrawals from the account as it had just been opened I wish I knew how they got both Nobody knew my pin number not even my hubby.so I assume the machine had been skimmed and a camera attached .I usually cover panels when entering my pin but the last time I withdrew money I did not cover it as I was recovering in hospital after major surgery and was carrying 2 drain bottles which made it hard to do. Two days later I got a call from the bank asking me if I was withdrawing money . Seemingly someone or persons were withdrawing money at all the banks in Central festival. He was watching it coming up on screen. The chap was nice and stopped it straight away but it is really the inconvenience it causes. So its not always abroad that they try to take it out. The bank kept saying I had given my card to someone it was impossible for that to happen but when you do a bit of research there were lots of complaints about SCB security on Atms. They now have a gadget where they just need to pass it over your bag or trouser pocket and it can capture the details from cards What chance do we all have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinediscoking Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I had mine hacked as well when I first came here. You might have a hard time getting it all back.we had such a fight on our hands as the machine captured me speaking to a friend and they said I could have gave them the pin number and they did it. Despite them having atm photos of the culprits. As for Thai bank cards not working ouside Thailand.I have used mine in Singapore and Malaysia to get money from the Atm no problems. Well, none of my Thai ATM cards work outside LOS (ones from Bangkok Bank, Bank Ayudha, or Kasikorn). However, as I mentioned, these are the "basic" cards and there are "inter" cards one can get that will work outside Thailand. People can decide for themselves which type of card is appropriate for them. As to your problem, can you describe it more specifically? You state that apparently you lost money from a Thai bank account from someone using your ATM card and/or PIN code...I understand there are many ways the card's number can be stolen without one's knowledge during ordinary use of the card but how did someone get your PIN code as well? Money cannot be taken out of an ATM without the PIN and it is the cardholders responsibility to guard this code with their life! I don't blame the banks for taking a tough stand with these type of theft claims...otherwise everyone would be out there claiming money stolen from their accounts. I bank with SCB. I only had made 3 withdrawals from the account as it had just been opened I wish I knew how they got both Nobody knew my pin number not even my hubby.so I assume the machine had been skimmed and a camera attached .I usually cover panels when entering my pin but the last time I withdrew money I did not cover it as I was recovering in hospital after major surgery and was carrying 2 drain bottles which made it hard to do. Two days later I got a call from the bank asking me if I was withdrawing money . Seemingly someone or persons were withdrawing money at all the banks in Central festival. He was watching it coming up on screen. The chap was nice and stopped it straight away but it is really the inconvenience it causes. So its not always abroad that they try to take it out. The bank kept saying I had given my card to someone it was impossible for that to happen but when you do a bit of research there were lots of complaints about SCB security on Atms. They now have a gadget where they just need to pass it over your bag or trouser pocket and it can capture the details from cards What chance do we all have. They can only scan a card that has a smart chip in it but they would have to be close to you to do it and the pin number is stored on the banks database not the in the chip. I always do an inspection on the insert where i put my card into and if it is extruding in anyway i try to remove it with force. Usually the ones that are legit cannot be removed. I also get as close as possible to the atm when entering my pin so no one can look over my shoulder. One time on center road I was an attempted victim from one of the scammers after i withdrew money a algerian looking person said i forget 500 baht in the machine this was years ago before it was reported yet so i took it the money to my bank the next day and reported it as their atm being in error. I think they were fishing for me to put my card back in the atm which i did not or scan it. My card does not have a smart card so no problem ever happened. If I knew what they were up to i would have pointed at him and started screaming "Kamoui" (theif in thai). Also my card SCB and Kbank cards have worked back home, and in several other countries. It is just a basic issued atm card. Edited March 22, 2012 by marinediscoking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJCM Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I had mine hacked as well when I first came here. You might have a hard time getting it all back.we had such a fight on our hands as the machine captured me speaking to a friend and they said I could have gave them the pin number and they did it. Despite them having atm photos of the culprits. As for Thai bank cards not working ouside Thailand.I have used mine in Singapore and Malaysia to get money from the Atm no problems. Well, none of my Thai ATM cards work outside LOS (ones from Bangkok Bank, Bank Ayudha, or Kasikorn). However, as I mentioned, these are the "basic" cards and there are "inter" cards one can get that will work outside Thailand. People can decide for themselves which type of card is appropriate for them. As to your problem, can you describe it more specifically? You state that apparently you lost money from a Thai bank account from someone using your ATM card and/or PIN code...I understand there are many ways the card's number can be stolen without one's knowledge during ordinary use of the card but how did someone get your PIN code as well? Money cannot be taken out of an ATM without the PIN and it is the cardholders responsibility to guard this code with their life! I don't blame the banks for taking a tough stand with these type of theft claims...otherwise everyone would be out there claiming money stolen from their accounts. ............. They now have a gadget where they just need to pass it over your bag or trouser pocket and it can capture the details from cards What chance do we all have. That's called RFID Card Skimming and here are some tips to keep you safe from that kind of Skimming: http://www.ehow.com/...cards-safe.html With the best tip being: Wrap your RFID credit cards in aluminum foil before putting them in your wallet. Some users have reported that this simple, homemade technique helps block RFID scanners from reading the card. Edited March 22, 2012 by MJCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evermaat Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The sacrifice of convenience for security. It's funny how few times a bank is robbed, but instead scammers target the weakest link, which is the end consumer. i find that ironic because you would think that as hard as people work for their money, they would be more diligent about protecting their access points. You dont have to be a bank expert to put your hand or paper over atm pin pad or ensure your browser/computer is secure for internet banking. "2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from TV android app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I had mine hacked as well when I first came here. You might have a hard time getting it all back.we had such a fight on our hands as the machine captured me speaking to a friend and they said I could have gave them the pin number and they did it. Despite them having atm photos of the culprits. As for Thai bank cards not working ouside Thailand.I have used mine in Singapore and Malaysia to get money from the Atm no problems. Well, none of my Thai ATM cards work outside LOS (ones from Bangkok Bank, Bank Ayudha, or Kasikorn). However, as I mentioned, these are the "basic" cards and there are "inter" cards one can get that will work outside Thailand. People can decide for themselves which type of card is appropriate for them. As to your problem, can you describe it more specifically? You state that apparently you lost money from a Thai bank account from someone using your ATM card and/or PIN code...I understand there are many ways the card's number can be stolen without one's knowledge during ordinary use of the card but how did someone get your PIN code as well? Money cannot be taken out of an ATM without the PIN and it is the cardholders responsibility to guard this code with their life! I don't blame the banks for taking a tough stand with these type of theft claims...otherwise everyone would be out there claiming money stolen from their accounts. They now have a gadget where they just need to pass it over your bag or trouser pocket and it can capture the details from cards What chance do we all have. They can only scan a card that has a smart chip in it but they would have to be close to you to do it and the pin number is stored on the banks database not the in the chip. What you are talking about is cards that have RFID (called contactless cards like Visa PayWave or MasterCard PayPass). Those can be "skimmed", but this skimming does NOT,give away details from your magstripe and this can NOT, be used for creating a skimmed card. And most definitely, they can scan all cards that offer RFID possibility, wheter with or without Chip. It's a question whether the card has an antenna for RFID usage or not. The only thing they can do with that kind of scanning is create single transactions with value below US$40 (Euro 25) that can ONCE be used, if they are lucky and if the card issuing company messed up with the security parameters! With our security settings within RFID, the chance for a successful transactions is lower than 0.1% Edited March 22, 2012 by Rimmer Over the top vitriolic content removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 A few questions: Are these Thai bank ATM or credit cards? Are they foreign bank ATM or credt cards? If Thai, at least for the basic ATM cards, they don't work on foreign ATM or POS networks, so no danger to holders of these type of cards. I would imagine it's much the same for Thai credit cards as well. Does (did) anyone other than yourself have access to the card and PIN recently? Especially in Pattaya, where there are many short-term relationships, this is where much of the problem occurs. Thai debit cards from Siam Commercial and Kasikorn are working worldwide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exsexyman Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well thank you Paul Jones, as soon as i read your OP i logged on to my bank account online to check everything was ok. I suspect i probably wasn't the only one. Doesn't do any harm to to be reminded of the potential scams out there. Thanks again. Glad your bank has done the decent thing and you will not lose out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinediscoking Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 @swiss1960 Yes, I will concede your point, the chip would have to be RFID to be scanned not a smart card chip. I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljones Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 The bank investigator told me there had to be a skimming machine attached to the ATM. Warning: if you ever have your card rejected at an ATM it could be there is a skimmer operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necronx99 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Atm's in Oz are now being modified to vibrate and move the card randomly in and out as they accept it to ruin any scans being done. If anyone is worried about Rfid there are now Rfid proof wallets available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Although ATM cards do provide a convenience, it may be time to go back to the old fashion method by going to a bank and withdrawing funds from a teller. Especially in high risk areas like Patters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinegirl Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Although ATM cards do provide a convenience, it may be time to go back to the old fashion method by going to a bank and withdrawing funds from a teller. Especially in high risk areas like Patters. Ive tried a few times in Scb Pattaya to get money from the teller and they wont do it.They phone head office to get your limit increased and then tell you to go to the Atm to take it out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoodMaiDai Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 My card was skimmed in Pattaya once and I believe later in Bangkok. That is after I was skimmed once in South American and was VERY mindful of ATM machines. No idea how they did it. I never leave the card out of my sight other than when it goes into an ATM that I inspect closely beforehand. They are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necronx99 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 My card was skimmed in Pattaya once and I believe later in Bangkok. That is after I was skimmed once in South American and was VERY mindful of ATM machines. No idea how they did it. I never leave the card out of my sight other than when it goes into an ATM that I inspect closely beforehand. They are good. Standalone teller machines like they have in shopping centres have been found to have been tampered with from the inside. Some have been found that are totally fake replicas. They look real, appear to work and just spit your card out with an error message after skimming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljones Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 The link below has a comprehensive guide to skimmers and pinhole cameras used to steal your card info. http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/consumerist/2009/04/Skimmer_presentation_v1_230109_ppt_1__01.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Wow....thanks for the heads up on this. I think I'll take the advise above and just get the money from the teller directly! You have to have you're bank book, but that's no big deal. We only use ATMs in the branches, never ones anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The bank investigator told me there had to be a skimming machine attached to the ATM. Warning: if you ever have your card rejected at an ATM it could be there is a skimmer operating. What ATM machine did you use that it was skimmed at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbooks Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The bank investigator told me there had to be a skimming machine attached to the ATM. Warning: if you ever have your card rejected at an ATM it could be there is a skimmer operating. Funnily enough mine was rejected on the morning I was called by HSBC...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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