Bangkok BTS Apologises For Guard's Clash With Irish Passenger

[fstarbkk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-0ZoKpBMY

Youtube link of the incident..

Dumb fool think he's above the law by insisting in bringing in the balloon when it is clearly prohibited

Not sure anything is clearlu prohibited in Thailand. He's wrong but having the incident end with a beating shoes a slight lack of skills on the part of the guard. But then I dont expect the conersation started with "excuse me" rather " hey u"

Clearly prohibited = Many, many things are clearly prohibited in Thailand!

Clearly enforced = Almost nothing - Almost always depends on who you are, whom you know and what you can afford to pay.

Edited March 23, 2012 by fstarbkk

[LomSak27]

Ever Since the Hindenburg went down, I've been a big fan of helium

[alanferdi]

AS HAS BEEN AIRED - The video filming began after he had a bash on his head

This might not justify the actions of the Farang... but it is worth trying to access the reason to why he was physically assaulted!

Why was the police not called or this person not restrained till legal action was taken.

There has to be a progression to all of this - I am hoping that this would show more than just Thai vs Farang scenario.

[Reasonableman]

Helium not hydrogen is the way forward.

Good point!! The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas. Guards totally in the wrong for stopping him. Wonder if anyone tried explaining this to the guards, or if they have even thought about it?

Had to have been filled with helium? How do you know that? No one knows if it was helium. in a country where the quality of medical gas is not even assured, you are going to assume that some guy walking around with balloons has helium in them? What part of no balloons allowed on the system do you not understand? The argument the man used is that he was let on previously, so he should be let on again. Brilliant logic. That is the same as saying, because one was able to do 70kmh in a 20kmh school zone, one should be able to keep on doing that.

Yes it is wrong there was an altercation, but the man was a fool for getting into a fight with the staff. He's got no one to blame but himself and he will find that the courts will side with the guards. How does anyone expect the guards were going to prevent this man from bringing the balloons into the system? In a world where terrorists use children to carry bombs, and where terrorists will assume the attire and appearance of "safe" people, no one knows what a terrorist or a nutter looks like anymore. The classic was Timmy McVeigh. Clean cut, and non threatening and yet he made a building go kaboom slaughtering hundreds. In Iraq, normal looking women walk into markets and go kaboom. In Spain, normal looking people got on the subway and it went kaboom. In Tokyo, normal looking people let off poisonous gas in the subway system.

A lot of flatulent inebriated old farts should be prevented from getting on the BTS as well, talk about noxious gases!!! GK, you are a national treasure!

[AaronBooth]

I watched the video.

Guards try to stop the guy - it was obvious he was trying to do something he should not even without language.

You can clearly see the Irish guy kick a guard in the chest as BTS report and being violent.

How strong should guards be to stop what they are taught could endanger lives of others? I hope they are just as strong when it could be a genuine terrorist next time.

I am 100% with the guards.

The Irishman was in breach of rules then violent. Gives the rest of us a bad name. They should deport him IMHO.

[Tiffer]

Exactly. The sign says no BALLOONS and does specify what kind of gas they are filled with. The foreigner was in the wrong and it does not matter what he got away with earlier in the day. Some arrogant foreigners seem to feel that they are entitled to not follow rules in Thailand because of their white skin.

Not all foreigners have white skin...

Not all the arrogant people are foreigners...

[anterian]

Would he have satisfied the guard if he had let the air out of the balloons? Are balloons banned or just inflated balloons? Should all guards be armed with pins in future so they can deflate inflated balloons?

[toybits]

I think people are missing the point here. The reason the guard accosted this Irishman was because the balloon were filled with acetylene gas instead of the more expensive Helium Gas. Acetylene gas is highly explosive but is very cheap to generate. Calcium carbine and a little H20 generated the gas. It is the balloon distributors that should be slammed!!! The Guard did not have a choice. His duty was to protect the public. The Irishman was protecting his kid and he also had no choice. It is the only type of balloon gas available.

I remember seeing an anti-smoking campaign event where an acetylene gas filled giant balloon caught fire and injured several persons. I believe this happened somewhere near China town (Yaowaraj). Should have been a lesson.

Anyway, the guard should have known that acetylene balloons can burn but will not cause a huge explosion. That only happens when you put the gas in a tube and ignite it. I know - I just to play with calcium carbine cannons.

[chuang]

From the video it clearly shows the farang as arrogant and aggressive...if the balloons meant so much to his daughter, the least a sensible father could do stop creating a scene and take a cab back...maybe this farang thinks he is still in Vietnam...

[WyattEarp]

"Balloons are inflammable. We strictly don't allow passengers to bring along gas-filled balloons," Anat said.

Do not have all the information, but the balloons look air filled to me. Would it be considered okay to bring air filled balloons then, I wonder. Several issues arise from this incident here,

1. Foreigner that has been living here for a while now (assumption), trying to muscle his way through the system and BTS rules. Respect the rules of where you're at.

2. BTS does not have/enforce a standardized system. A lot if left to the discretion of the workers.

3. As for the assault, nothing is clear until someone credible steps forward or the CCTV footage is viewed. We do not know for sure who instigated the violence resulting in the apparent pushing, kicking and clubbing. So I would reserve my comments, I would however note that for a guard to club a passenger, that passenger better be either armed or excessively violent.

One problem here is there are so many rules, and most of them make no sense and are not enforced. It is "normal" here to break or bend rules. Everybody does it.

[webfact]

Assaulted Foreign Teacher Claims BTS Guard Overdid His Duty

BANGKOK: -- An Irish English teacher who was assaulted by a security guard at a BTS skytrain station claimed no wrongdoing.

The aggressive guard has been fired and the company is considering disciplinary action against negligent staff.

An English teacher from Ireland, John Behan, and his wife Patcharamas Phoosri, gave further testimony at the Thong Lor Police Station last night about the alleged assault last Friday by a security guard hired by the Bangkok Mass Transit System, or BTS.

They also provided the investigator with screen shots of security camera footage captured during the incident.

Behan insisted that he was not engaged in wrongdoing and did not violate the security protocol. He felt that the guard overdid it on his duty.

The Irishman added not only did he sustain an injury and have to miss days of work, the incident also hurt his daughter's feeling who was at the scene.

He said the fact that BTS has sent flowers to apologize for the scandal could not make up for it.

Anat Arbhabhirama, the director and chairman of BTS's management committee, said the guard, whom it hired from an outside company, has been removed from his job, while an investigation is being conducted into negligence by employees who failed to act appropriately to control the situation.

He said Behan was angry that he was barred from carrying a balloon with him on to the train at Phromphong Station although he had been allowed so during his travel from Surasak Station.

Anat clarified that according the company's regulations and safety protocol, a balloon is not allowed into the transit system because it contains an inflammable gas.

The BTS executive, however, said the company is willing to give full cooperation to police investigation.

-- Tan Network 2012-03-23

[Card]

The paddy was totally wrong. To discipline the security guard is a disgrace. To say that paddy was 'doing his job' as a father is shameful. I hope they deport paddy.

[Card]

I think people are missing the point here. The reason the guard accosted this Irishman was because the balloon were filled with acetylene gas instead of the more expensive Helium Gas. Acetylene gas is highly explosive but is very cheap to generate. Calcium carbine and a little H20 generated the gas. It is the balloon distributors that should be slammed!!! The Guard did not have a choice. His duty was to protect the public. The Irishman was protecting his kid and he also had no choice. It is the only type of balloon gas available.

I remember seeing an anti-smoking campaign event where an acetylene gas filled giant balloon caught fire and injured several persons. I believe this happened somewhere near China town (Yaowaraj). Should have been a lesson.

Anyway, the guard should have known that acetylene balloons can burn but will not cause a huge explosion. That only happens when you put the gas in a tube and ignite it. I know - I just to play with calcium carbine cannons.

Calcium carbide, not carbine!

[asdecas]

Clearly, though undoubtedly it was a frustrating situation for him, the farang was in the wrong: the rule is no balloons on the BTS - the fact that he had earlier carried them on the system, the question of what gas they were filled with, the fact that bags are not searched on the BTS so anyone could carry anything onto their trains, so why not allow balloons - these are all red herrings. The rule is no balloons. The farang broke the rule. He was talked to, then restrained when he lost his temper. The situation escalated. I know whose side I'm on, and I'm a farang. I suspect the courts will agree. The wisest move on the farang's part would be to make a grovelling apology, now that he's no doubt calmed down. That way he may avoid a custodial sentence and perhaps the fine too.

As another red herring, I have always found those security guys, who are very often ex-military squaddies, efficient and helpful, sticklers for the rules, which is what is required for the job. No doubt a cosmetic change of location/job has or will take place to slake the media's thirst. Those guys also earn a pittance - but that's yet another red herring.

[KeyserSoze01]

According to the video/testimonies (unverified) posted, they claim that the farang did a choking grip on the guard's neck. That's when the guard clubbed him with the metal detector and gave him a bloodied face.

In an earlier thread I stated that it was unacceptable for the guard to strike the foreigner with his baton. Then we learned it was a metal detector.

If a large Irishman began to choke me, I would hit him in the head with anything I could get my hands on. Including a metal detector.

This why these threads always go sideways. Without the facts, everything else is just speculation.

[cowboydog]

from what I can see on of the video he was out of control - actually he look pissed. That he would carry on like that with his young daughter right there to witness is seriously wrong.

[chrisinth]

Helium not hydrogen is the way forward.

Good point!! The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas. Guards totally in the wrong for stopping him. Wonder if anyone tried explaining this to the guards, or if they have even thought about it?

Perhaps they could relax the rules about balloons by taking a sample of the gas before transitting through the gates?

They would however have to form another queue beside the people being strip searched for lighters. Extra training would also be required for the security, mainly in the form of self defence for when they search the passengers, and more to the point when they can defend themselves.

"Why not just confiscate people's lighters (and matches) ?? Or at a minimum, follow the rules completely, Nothing quite as flammable as a cigarette lighter! Makes it tough to set other flammable materials on fire with out a fire source.

How about patting everyone down before entrance to check for flammables?? Strip searches??"

[Scott]

Profanity and off-topic posts deleted.

[eddie61]

I think that anyone who's lived here more than a few months knows getting irate in a situation like that in Thailand, in public, is not going to come out in your favor. No offense to the security guards, but they weren't hired for having the mental capacity to make judgement calls in cases like that, deciding that Behan's balloons weren't most likely NOT going to be used in a terroristic manner, especially given the fact his daughter was right there with him.

They are told "no flammables" and then follow the rules, regardless. I know, I've been stopped for trying to carry rubber cement once and another time engine cleaner. Once just took the bus home because I was only a few stops away. The other, I beg and pleaded, in Thai, to let me on, the canisters were sealed, etc... No joy! Frustrated, I just left the cans on his little table and walked into the station.

I feel sorry for Behan, but from the video, he was getting hostile with them, and they were following the rules, technically.

But I want to pose a question: Why not just confiscate people's lighters (and matches) ?? Or at a minimum, follow the rules completely, Nothing quite as flammable as a cigarette lighter! Makes it tough to set other flammable materials on fire with out a fire source.

How about patting everyone down before entrance to check for flammables?? Strip searches??

Funny thing about this incident is that the MRT checks my bag every time, but I've never had my bag checked on the BTS, granted I don't use it that often.

So, just to be clear, the guards are so concerned about the safety of the passengers they refuse entrance to someone carrying balloons, but let anyone with a bag on their back carry whatever they want onto the trains?? And don't stop people from bringing highly flammable lighters as well??

I think all these security measures are just another example of how the "powers that be" want to give the public the appearance of safety, when in reality they only inconvenience, unnecessarily, the public they are trying to protect, and doing that without really adding any additional security. And this is not a problem exclusive to this country, but have become pervasive throughout the world.

The best way forward for both parties to admit their respective mistakes. It clearly was a cultural clash between different educational doctrines: one values critical thought, the other values hierarchical dogma. Both have their value, and both have their flaws. Say Sorry to each other and move on!

[Sailfish1]

Are there any signs around the stations indicating what things are prohibited on the trains? I never saw any signs when I rode the trains. BTS better start putting up signs and notices on their literature and passes.

[lopburi3]

Above is a link from 6 years ago. Such balloons have not been allowed in confined spaces for the last 20 years AFAIK (and before there there were deaths and serious injury every year being reported in Bangkok bars when customers brought in and mini explosions took place).

[WhizBang]

After viewing the video, it sure looks like the farang is overly agressive. A rather silly thing to do, ESPECIALLY given that he has his young daughter in tow. What a life lesson for her.

Bottom line, he should have taken a taxi. He gets zero sympathy from me.

Edited March 23, 2012 by WhizBang

[khunron13]

Go back home and leave your superior attitude there where it belongs.

Another pot calling the kettle black!

[p_brownstone]

The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas.

The balloons were filled with air. At 0:54 in the video the balloons are released and fall to the ground...no helium, no hydrogen, plain atmospheric air!

There is no way you or the Security Guard could know that.

The balloons were not filled with Hydrogen or Helium because, as you say, they fell to the ground when released; but that is definitely no evidence that they were filled with Air - there are a LOT of gases which are heavier than Air which are extremely combustible or toxic.

I think BTS is being very irresponsible with Security now though - they suspend one set of Guards for letting the clown get on a train earlier but also suspend Guards at Promphong for trying to do their duty.

I suspect in any future incident the Guards will just look the other way and pretend they see nothing - a great approach to Security Khun Anan!

Patrick

[nod]

Rule 1 in Thailand.........don't lose your temper

No one can excuse the assault with a metal detector, but we all must take responsibility for ourselves here. This guy should have known better than to lose his rag............it always, always ends badly.

Whilst I totally agree that it is a bad idea to lose your temper ANYWHERE, I am constantly amused by the so called Thai experts who keep quoting this so called number one rule specifically about Thailand.

Tell it to the Thais mate!

I regularly see Thais going ballistic at each other even when sober, and God help us when they're drunk! You're lucky if they don't kill each other!

Then start watching Thai soap operas and see if you can find one where the Thais are not going ballistic at each other!

So keep giving us all this sound advice, but as I say, go tell it to the Thais also.

[FangFerang]

Let the punishments fit the crime.

Make the farang punter (pun intended) do guard duty for three weeks at a BTS in China, and make the Thai guards blow up balloons for three weeks straight. Then get all the antagonistic protagonists together, make them drink four bottles of the most raunchy mekong available each, and then drop them off in front of the Russian Embassy in Hanoi to sing "It's a Small World After All" in three part harmony.

Problem solved. We now return to our regularly scheduled program, "The Daily Whinge".

[TinoThailand]

Blablabla

It don't matter what was in the balloons and to make jokes. This is joker news anyway.

Glad to see I was guesing right, he acted like a dumb cun_t.

If a guard stop me i know it's for a reason, don't matter if I don't understand a word he said. It's not my country and not my train, I will wait and get to know what's the problem and take a cap with doughters balloons <deleted>..

This Farang make us look bad, c'mon!

[FangFerang]

Rule 1 in Thailand.........don't lose your temper

No one can excuse the assault with a metal detector, but we all must take responsibility for ourselves here. This guy should have known better than to lose his rag............it always, always ends badly.

So keep giving us all this sound advice, but as I say, go tell it to the Thais also.

Nod has a point, and a good one. Farang can bash each other, and Thais can bash each other, but when farang and Thais clash--suddenly the two price system gets a legal slant. I do expect the farang will pay money, transfrers will be made on the Thai side, and Poof! Same, same, but different.

[Ferangled]

The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas.

The balloons were filled with air. At 0:54 in the video the balloons are released and fall to the ground...no helium, no hydrogen, plain atmospheric air!

There is no way you or the Security Guard could know that.

The balloons were not filled with Hydrogen or Helium because, as you say, they fell to the ground when released; but that is definitely no evidence that they were filled with Air - there are a LOT of gases which are heavier than Air which are extremely combustible or toxic.

I think BTS is being very irresponsible with Security now though - they suspend one set of Guards for letting the clown get on a train earlier but also suspend Guards at Promphong for trying to do their duty.

I suspect in any future incident the Guards will just look the other way and pretend they see nothing - a great approach to Security Khun Anan!

Patrick

Looking the other way would be highly preferable to assaulting paying customers IMO.

I'd also be very interested to know what dangerous gases are both cheaper, heavier and more readily available than air, making them a viable alternative to air when filling up balloons.

There have been a few incidents of cars using LPG that have exploded. The use of LPG cars on roads hasn't been banned and neither have all other cars been banned from roads because they could potentially be converted to LPG and explode.

Why are balloons becoming the object of such fear and derision?! In the interest of avoiding any future incidents of this nature I suggest that balloons be exposed as the highly dangerous tools of terrorist activity they so clearly are and be banned immediately.

[Gone]

The Irishman added not only did he sustain an injury and have to miss days of work, the incident also hurt his daughter's feeling who was at the scene.

He said the fact that BTS has sent flowers to apologize for the scandal could not make up for it.

1) Miss days off work? The guy should NEVER be allowed to work as a teacher again anywhere in the world. He clearly teaches that the laws don't matter.

2) His daughters feeling were hurt? So why didn't he take a cab and not subject his daughter to such beligerence?

3) The BTS sent flowers and this loser still carries on and on. What a prat.

It was nice that the BTS appologiesed however not nessacary. Did he apoligise to the Gaurds he got fired? NOT

Why were the guard{s} removed? Ok maybe the one who hit him just until investigations are finished but the others?

Does anyone know where this security gaurd lives? I want to buy him a beer. Because this loser decides he is above the law and cannot afford a taxi 3 or 4 Thai people are now without pay-checks. What a moron !!!!!!!!

Language barrier? I think both his wife and daughter could translate however it seems he has been here long enough to even understand pigeon English "No Ballons"

I agree with many here that losers like him give us decent farangs a bad name and I also ask Thai's not to blame all of us for these type of reprobates.

HOW THE HELLL CAN HE STILL HAVE A JOB TEACHING ???????