Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[Nisa]

Did you even read what you are replying to

Of course I read it, and I didn't jump to unlikely conclusions or racial stereotyping as some have.

Then please explain your insistence that he was bleeding before he kicked the trash can or your need for the rude/sarcastic comments about "others" not understanding this. Am I missing something?

You are incredibly sensitive aren't you, and yes, you are missing something,

Actually I am not the least bit sensitive and not sure why anybody would think that based on this post but I apologize because I thought we could have a reasonable adult conversation or even debate but that doesn't appear possible. By the way, sometimes just admitting one makes a mistake and moving on makes a person both earn respect, not look like a fool and avoid problems ... a lesson Behan hopefully has learned too instead of compounding a simple mistake into a more embarrassing and regrettable situation.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[TAWP]

Nisa >> Stop saying that others shouldn't make assumptions unless they have seen the surveillance videos - and then make assumptions on the order of events based on writes-ups by others.

[Nisa]

Nisa >> Stop saying that others shouldn't make assumptions unless they have seen the surveillance videos - and then make assumptions on the order of events based on writes-ups by others.

When did I say other shouldn't make assumptions?

And when did I make an assumption about the order of events where I wasn't clear it was speculation? Or do you consider what both a witness and the Irish guy says happened (even though it reflects poorly on himself) as being an assumption?

We all are free to speculate as much as we want especially when we are clear we are speculating or in this case being clear I am quoting from a linked source (http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=529) that gives the chronology of the attacks based on both a witness and the Irish guy accounts.

Just because you don't like apparent facts isn't valid reason to make false accusations.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[carra]

We are not talking about transport systems anywhere else in the world, we are talking about this one particular system and why one man was assaulted by guards.

And once again, we come back to an attitude that likely led the Irish guy down the path of problems this day that he could have been so easily avoided.

and you have proof of this attitude? Please let us see the proof that you had that this was caused by Behans attitude, or is this just specyulation on your part? again.

On another note I see you are still saying he is after compensation, I asked a few days ago for any link that shows that behan has asked for any comepnsation, I just flicked through the thread but fail to see a response to this, so I can ask you a direct question since it it seems to be you that keeps saying he is after compensation, can you provide me a link or any PROOF that Behan is asking for compensation?

a simple yes or no, with a link will do fine for me thanks, not misdirection and hyperbole, a simple yes or no, can you back up your claim that behan is pursuing compensation? I have not seen this link and would just like to see it.

Since I used the word "likely" I am not sure how anyone would think this is anything but speculation. As for why this is likely .. just take a look at the video. I highly doubt this guy would behave this way in his home country or at an airport. Having an attitude that you can act differently (as seen in the video) in following security orders in a Bangkok Transit is a problem (attitude) that will likely lead to trouble for yourself.

As for the compensation, I am sure you are very capable of finding the interviews with him and his wife where it is made clear they didn't file charges against the guard (also don't want guard fired) but they did file charges against the Guard company and BTS. These two entities could be monetarily culpable but about zero percent chance the companies could ever be criminally responsible over this incident. The wife also complains of not receiving compensation yet. Yes, if was your lackey, I can find you the links, but if you are following the info about this story, then I would think you would be aware of these interviews (major source of info related to this incident) and be capable of finding info on you own that you are curious about.

So everything you have written in this thread is pure speculation yet you continue to try and force your opinion on people as being fact, you version could be 100% correct or it could be 100% wrong or could be any percentage inbetween. You seem to think that your know more than the actual victim or witnesses to this assault whereas I would say the witness statement from the Burmese lady is pretty damning against the guards and shows they over reacted and turned the situation violent, it is clear from her evidence that the guard turned the situation into a physical one and know we need to wait and see the video to see if her evidence is correct, but as she is independant and has no axe to grind I think her evidence probably is correct. So I base my opinion on the witness evidence, you base on yours on backing everything Thai against everything foreign, weird.

As for the compensation at no point in what you have written do I see they are asking for monetary compensation, sure we can assume that when she says 'compensation she is talking about money, but i think there has been enough 'assumung' already in this thread on this matter, and most of it castigating the victim to a violent assualt from people paid to protect him.

I hope he does go after monetary compensation and I hope he gets it, the recent witness statement from the Burmese lady shows a disgusting turn of events and shows the pack mentality we see here all to often, but these guards are suppossed to be trained and not some drunk scum in a bar or bouncers that we could expect to get violent for no reason.

I hope in a few months he is sat on a nice beach somwhere with his wife and daughter, surrounded by balloons, spending the compensation he rightly deserves from the BTS and G4S in the knowledge that the cctv has been released showing a brutal assault by the guards and silencing the 'everthing thai is correct' mob on here, When i moved here 7 years ago I must have missed the department at Don mueang where I am suppossed to hand my testicals over and my culture, I guess it has moves to Swampy now but I am buggered if I can find it.

Edited April 9, 2012 by carra

[Curt1591]

So, can anyone point us to a "No Balloon" sign location yet?

[carra]

So, can anyone point us to a "No Balloon" sign location yet?

No, lived here 7 years and I have never seen such sign, I have seen plenty of people on the BTs with balloons in that time though, also paused to read the regs the other week at Thonglor BTS and still could not find a specific order relating to balloons. I guess it comes under the 'no flammables' rule which must be subjective, and as another posters says even clothes are flamable, and we should see lighters banned etc from the BTS, and battery operated things in case they overheat etc etc etc. But to be honest whether the sign is there or not, the issue is about the guards over reacting and turning violent and seriuosly assaulting a man.

[Curt1591]

"I have seen plenty of people on the BTs with balloons in that time though"

Try riding during Chula's graduation!

[meand]

When i moved here 7 years ago I must have missed the department at Don mueang where I am suppossed to hand my testicals over and my culture.

The only reason being proposed you'd have to "hand over your culture" is if your culture inherently makes you act like an insensible a-hole. In that case, yes, you should "hand it over" upon arrival. Pick it back up on the way out if you'd like.

[Nisa]

When i moved here 7 years ago I must have missed the department at Don mueang where I am suppossed to hand my testicals over and my culture.

The only reason being proposed you'd have to "hand over your culture" is if your culture inherently makes you act like an insensible a-hole. In that case, yes, you should "hand it over" upon arrival. Pick it back up on the way out if you'd like.

Maybe the testicle department is hidden behind the department where so many have seemed to dropped off their common sense when entering Thailand. Including thinking there will not be ugly consequences here for responding to security at a public transport by ... screaming, kicking, swearing and physically/illegally trying to force your way onto a public transport after security tells you not to enter with your banned items (all as either stated by Irish Guy, Witness or seen in Video) ... and then of course not only continuing on this same path but increasing your rage filled determination to trespass onto a public transport with banned items, all with your 7 year old daughter in tow, after security has already dealt you some blows for your failure to comply.

I just hope these types of folks pick up their common sense upon leaving because I really don't need to see this same thing played out at an airport w/airport security since airlines also ban filled balloons on flights but shockingly ( ), there are no prominent signs alerting the public of this.

[Nisa]

"I have seen plenty of people on the BTs with balloons in that time though"

Try riding during Chula's graduation!

Your icon / avatar reminded me of the below which maybe sums the incident from both perspectives ...

Cartman w/"Authoritah" ... my favorite

Edited April 9, 2012 by Nisa

[carra]

When i moved here 7 years ago I must have missed the department at Don mueang where I am suppossed to hand my testicals over and my culture.

The only reason being proposed you'd have to "hand over your culture" is if your culture inherently makes you act like an insensible a-hole. In that case, yes, you should "hand it over" upon arrival. Pick it back up on the way out if you'd like.

Well I have been here 7 years without any problems, so i guess i don't cause any issues, however neither do I give up any of my masculinity and take it up the arse from someone just because they happen to be Thai and i live in Thailand. I am still english and still have my culture, and I respect the Thai culture, however this is not a cultural issue, this is simply an assault by staff not based on cuture, just based on their thuggishness.

[carra]

When i moved here 7 years ago I must have missed the department at Don mueang where I am suppossed to hand my testicals over and my culture.

The only reason being proposed you'd have to "hand over your culture" is if your culture inherently makes you act like an insensible a-hole. In that case, yes, you should "hand it over" upon arrival. Pick it back up on the way out if you'd like.

Maybe the testicle department is hidden behind the department where so many have seemed to dropped off their common sense when entering Thailand. Including thinking there will not be ugly consequences here for responding to security at a public transport by ... screaming, kicking, swearing and physically/illegally trying to force your way onto a public transport after security tells you not to enter with your banned items (all as either stated by Irish Guy, Witness or seen in Video) ... and then of course not only continuing on this same path but increasing your rage filled determination to trespass onto a public transport with banned items, all with your 7 year old daughter in tow, after security has already dealt you some blows for your failure to comply.

I just hope these types of folks pick up their common sense upon leaving because I really don't need to see this same thing played out at an airport w/airport security since airlines also ban filled balloons on flights but shockingly ( ), there are no prominent signs alerting the public of this.

More speculation about what happened.

Anyway it seems you like to have the last word so I will just pop this post in here happy in the knowledge that you will respond with more hyperbole and obsfucation in the hope that someone will read your drivel and take it as gospel.

Now my understanding is that this forum does not allow defamation, yet you constantly defame behan in relation to this about his alleged behaviour, can you either prove this nonsense your spout about his behaviour or stop besmirching the man until we have all at least seen the video evidence, I on the other hand have seen witness testimony to castigate the guards and explain what happened so no real defamation on my part of the guards, they escalated the situation into a violent one, if a guard can not take a bit of a verbal exchange without resorting to violence then they have no right being there.

[canuckamuck]

if a guard can not take a bit of a verbal exchange without resorting to violence then they have no right being there.

Bingo

[Familyonthemove]

Someone in here asked for a balloon sign and which station.

Don't worry , I will look for it and find it and post a picture of it here, but it's not that important is it .

All stations have "Flammable goods" signs, and as we all know , balloons can be flammable.

I had a look in my local BTS station, there is no sign or symbols saying that balloons are not allowed on the BTS. And as was pointed out in a much earlier post, the ballons seemed to be filled with air as they are not floating, so they are not flammable either.

So the Guard was wrong to challenge him, and the passenger was wrong to lose his cool.

There was a similar thread in Thai language on Panthip.com .... seemed to be 50% for the teacher and 50% for the guard, but they moved on to another subject weeks ago.

[chrisinth]

As a matter of interest, how many people read the signs at a sky train station? Or anywhere else for that matter? Honestly.

Before answering the above, consider the number of people on either side of this arguement that have been looking for the balloon sign. If your answer was that you always pay attention, then why are so many of you looking for one sign now? If you always read the signs, then you should be instantly aware of where they are.

The guy didn't see the sign, was advised that he wasn't allowed to carry balloons, decided to ignore advise, the rest is history. Let it be.

[Nisa]

As a matter of interest, how many people read the signs at a sky train station? Or anywhere else for that matter? Honestly.

Before answering the above, consider the number of people on either side of this arguement that have been looking for the balloon sign. If your answer was that you always pay attention, then why are so many of you looking for one sign now? If you always read the signs, then you should be instantly aware of where they are.

The guy didn't see the sign, was advised that he wasn't allowed to carry balloons, decided to ignore advise, the rest is history. Let it be.

Do you really think you can be of help to anybody who believes that if there is no sign (they can see) that they don't have to follow rules and safety instruction of those tasked with enforcing rules and safety at a public transport? Or better yet make them believe it is not okay to force your way onto a property even after security for that property tells you verbally (in a way you confirm you understand) cannot enter and even after uses force (possibly excessive) to make the point crystal clear? How about people that simply don't want to believe rules are real even when the president of the BTS comes out confirming it is a rule and explaining why it is a rule and there are numerous references on the internet to the rule before this incident? Or how about those that cannot grasp filled balloons are not allowed on planes either but you won't find signs in airport stating this and almost surely these same people would condemn strongly any foreigner who acted as Behran did if it happened in an airport in their country?

Guards certainly may have acted badly and used excessive and/or inappropriate force but IMO there is an extreme bias and denial going on if one cannot see the Irish guy was way out of line and if one is trying to find meaningless reasons, such as absent signs, to excuse his behavior of not being able to follow simple directions from staff responsible for a property and then his forcing his way onto the property by way of force and intimidation all why his 7-year old daughter is in tow ... especially when that property is a public transport, the staff are security & a station manager and it is at the time of or directly following a time of terrorist alerts and bombings in that city.

By the way .. I noticed the sign years ago and it stuck in my head because I thought it was an odd rule until the President of the BTS explained it and I found out they are banned in numerous places including planes. Funny, though I didn't understand the rule but I never thought it would be okay to break the rule (just the opposite).

Edited April 9, 2012 by Nisa

[Ulysses G.]

The guy didn't see the sign, was advised that he wasn't allowed to carry balloons, decided to ignore advise, the rest is history. Let it be.

A very accurate and pithy sumnation.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[hands22]

Sign or no sign, when a person in charge says no, please show a little respect by following the rules especially if you are in a foreign country.

For example, there is no sign indicating no spitting. Does it mean I can spit all over the station. And when the station guard tells me to stop...do I just ignore and expect no retaliation.

A little mutual respect goes a long way!

[Soutpeel]

Sign or no sign, when a person in charge says no, please show a little respect by following the rules especially if you are in a foreign country.

For example, there is no sign indicating no spitting. Does it mean I can spit all over the station. And when the station guard tells me to stop...do I just ignore and expect no retaliation.

A little mutual respect goes a long way!

So if Mr BiB tries to stich up for a bung are you going to follow the rules and refuse then ?

As regards mutual respect.....pity Corporal Somchai of the BTS constabulary did feel this way while he was bashing the farang over the head with a metal detector

Edited April 9, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Nisa]

I havent suggested the Irishman concerned did no wrong....but in creating a "scene" did he deserve to be beaten round the head by a jumped up barrier technican..

Without almost any shred of doubt, he shouldn't have been beat upon the head. And I don't know the level of force allowed in Thailand but where I come from ... if he refused to leave the station or continued entering after ignoring verbal orders then physical force can and should be used to restrain him in cuffs. If he continued to try to fight then hog tying him would be appropriate and if he spit then either tape his mouth or put a breathable bag over his head. If he fought security while they tried to restrain/cuff him then it would also be appropriate to beat him until he complied but the blows shouldn't be to the head and using a security club is preferred over fists and over powering him with numbers ("pack attack") is always the best way to go. Safety of the public and officers come before the offender.

Personally I agree with the above and think it highly wrong to hit somebody with a scanner anywhere unless one is in fear for their life ... however, according to one of witness' statement it was a guards bracelet that caused the initial wound above the eye but the guard shouldn't have been punching him in the face. This almost surely either shows a lack of training or restraint. The guard should have been armed and trained with non-lethal weapons to make sure it wasn't a fair fight and security had a significant advantage. But I also believe an actual armed law enforcement officer should be at every station to supervise guards and security.

Again, not sure of expectations in Thailand when it comes to the use of force (and that is all that really matters) but I believe it is much more strict. In fact, I believe a relative (BKK Cop) told me once that the general rule for them to even shoot their weapon is they must be shot at first. Yet, very few are allowed to carry tasers and they can only be used in extreme situations such as the other days hostage situation and not to get somebody to comply to order as it is where I am from.

Bottom line is this is Thailand and whatever the standards are for force here is all that matters ... regardless if we agree or not.

[Ulysses G.]

Are you suggesting that discrimination against balloon users is as abhorrent as racial bigotry?

[EyesWideOpen]

Sign or no sign, when a person in charge says no, please show a little respect by following the rules especially if you are in a foreign country.

For example, there is no sign indicating no spitting. Does it mean I can spit all over the station. And when the station guard tells me to stop...do I just ignore and expect no retaliation.

A little mutual respect goes a long way!

Hmmm gaining respect by adhering to the rules of the country..... Like the rule / law that prostitution is illegal. I can see that everyone follows that law closely. :-) This case is a simple problem of excessive violence on the part of the guards. Any long term expat who has been around will at some point experience this. I was sitting on some steps in front of a hotel. The guard came rushing out and demanded I move. I was in the middle of an important phone call and ignored him. Next thing I know he is coming at me with a night stick. So a quick review here:

Crime >> Sitting on the steps

Response >> Attacked by a guard with a night stick

I think he expected me to run away like a scare rabbit. Instead I slowly walked towards him, and commented in Thai to him about his future life expectancy. At that exact moment a policeman came by and defused the situation, and apologized to me about hot tempered Thais.

So yeah, I pretty much believe that excessive force was used upon Behan by poorly trained moronic wanna be policemen who are in fact lowly guards......

[Curt1591]

Are you suggesting that discrimination against balloon users is as abhorrent as racial bigotry?

I am suggesting that rules, and signs, come and go. What "was" may not be applicable today.

Some are insisting that there is a "rule", a "sign", that exists today. Yet, no one can point out where this can be seen, today.

As I pointed out, during graduation ceremonies, public transit is thick with balloons. Maybe some big face's kid was confronted with the "No Balloon" sign and daddy had them removed.

Some are insisting that "Rules is Rules" and they must be followed. This is Thailand for Christ-sakes! The law says one must stop for red lights and stop signs. We must yield to oncoming traffic, keep within speed limits. Prostitution is illegal.

What? Don't drive; don't fool around? Do you ever buy anything off a street vendor? Well, you are promoting illegal activities. Street vending is illegal in Bangkok. I can point you to signs that state this.

But, no one seems to be able to point out the location of "No Balloon" signs.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Curt1591

[Ulysses G.]

The guard warned him of the rule. The sign is not really the point.

[sparebox2]

The guard warned him of the rule. The sign is not really the point.

The warning comes before or after the smack on the farang head?

I think the Thai guard is not smart enough to know the difference of the sequential actions.

[Curt1591]

The guard warned him of the rule. The sign is not really the point.

For people who deal with, and have dealt with, discrimination, the sign is the point. Besides the elusive CCTV footage, it is possibly the most important point. Had there been a sign for the guard to point to, this thread would not exist.

After the "Whites Only" signs came down, many business owners would make other "rules". They would say that "jackets are required", "slacks are required" or single out whatever other item the "offending" person might be lacking. That's when it became A LAW that any such requirements be posted, in plain sight.

Now, Thailand may not have such a law; but, the posting of so many other rules and regulations at BTS stations might make one think that such an important regulation should have mention somewhere.

Otherwise, in the eyes of many, a guard simply stating a "rule", without any substantiation, is simple discrimination. This conclusion could also be bolstered by the fact that, previously, they was allowed on the train, without question.

[robblok]

Sign or no sign, when a person in charge says no, please show a little respect by following the rules especially if you are in a foreign country.

For example, there is no sign indicating no spitting. Does it mean I can spit all over the station. And when the station guard tells me to stop...do I just ignore and expect no retaliation.

A little mutual respect goes a long way!

Hmmm gaining respect by adhering to the rules of the country..... Like the rule / law that prostitution is illegal. I can see that everyone follows that law closely. :-) This case is a simple problem of excessive violence on the part of the guards. Any long term expat who has been around will at some point experience this. I was sitting on some steps in front of a hotel. The guard came rushing out and demanded I move. I was in the middle of an important phone call and ignored him. Next thing I know he is coming at me with a night stick. So a quick review here:

Crime >> Sitting on the steps

Response >> Attacked by a guard with a night stick

I think he expected me to run away like a scare rabbit. Instead I slowly walked towards him, and commented in Thai to him about his future life expectancy. At that exact moment a policeman came by and defused the situation, and apologized to me about hot tempered Thais.

So yeah, I pretty much believe that excessive force was used upon Behan by poorly trained moronic wanna be policemen who are in fact lowly guards......

Must be something in my upbringing but i generally listen and obey the rules. I would in no way attack a guard because he told me to move from the hotel steps. Ignoring someone is just plain bad manners i can understand him getting angry with you. Just because you are physically able to best someone does not mean you can ignore him. Think the Irish guy had the same state of mind as you.

[meand]

Sign or no sign, when a person in charge says no, please show a little respect by following the rules especially if you are in a foreign country.

For example, there is no sign indicating no spitting. Does it mean I can spit all over the station. And when the station guard tells me to stop...do I just ignore and expect no retaliation.

A little mutual respect goes a long way!

Hmmm gaining respect by adhering to the rules of the country..... Like the rule / law that prostitution is illegal. I can see that everyone follows that law closely. :-) This case is a simple problem of excessive violence on the part of the guards. Any long term expat who has been around will at some point experience this. I was sitting on some steps in front of a hotel. The guard came rushing out and demanded I move. I was in the middle of an important phone call and ignored him. Next thing I know he is coming at me with a night stick. So a quick review here:

Crime >> Sitting on the steps

Response >> Attacked by a guard with a night stick

I think he expected me to run away like a scare rabbit. Instead I slowly walked towards him, and commented in Thai to him about his future life expectancy. At that exact moment a policeman came by and defused the situation, and apologized to me about hot tempered Thais.

So yeah, I pretty much believe that excessive force was used upon Behan by poorly trained moronic wanna be policemen who are in fact lowly guards......

Or..

Quick review:

"crime" = sitting on private property that the guard may have been scolded many times and even threatened to lose his job if he doesn't keep them clear. Or perhaps he was directly told to clear you by his boss.

Response = "ignore" the guard's request, and make a threat about guard's life expectancy

Expectation = the guard to leave me alone so I can make my "important phone call" (much more important than anything the guard has to do of course). Oh, and never mind the fact that I verbally threatened him.

Determination: I am right and these idiotic Thai guards are all wrong.

Who are you people? Seriously? Please go away, and not from Thailand or from some steps, but just from life in general.

The point you have succeeded in proving here: it was just too much of an inconvenience for important me to simply get off those steps. Getting off the steps would have just been too easy for a guy like you, no? I'm sure you will prove many of my points about farang pretentiousness, tempers, arrogance and problem causing penchant with your ensuing posts. The more people like you that come out of the woodwork to support Behan, the more he looks like he is in the wrong. Do the poor guy a favor and just keep your "Thai's are moronic" experiences to yourself.

Edited April 10, 2012 by meand

[Nisa]

The guard warned him of the rule. The sign is not really the point.

for people who deal with, and have dealt with, discrimination, the sign is the point. Besides the elusive CCTV footage, it is possibly the most important point. Had there been a sign for the guard to point to, this thread would not exist.

After the "Whites Only" signs came down, many business owners would make other "rules". They would say that "jackets are required", "slacks are required" or single out whatever other item the "offending" person might be lacking. That's when it became A LAW that any such requirements be posted, in plain sight.

Now, Thailand may not have such a law; but, the posting of so many other rules and regulations at BTS stations might make one think that such an important regulation should have mention somewhere.

Otherwise, in the eyes of many, a guard simply stating a "rule", without any substantiation, is simple discrimination. This conclusion could also be bolstered by the fact that, previously, they was allowed on the train, without question.

Assuming you are talking about the US ... Not that any of this is relevant but you are wrong about the sign law. Anyone has the right to refuse to serve anyone or bar anyone from entering their property as long as they are not doing it for reasons such as race, color, religion, or national origin... Absolutely no sign is needed nor does there need to be a sign to be posted. People are asked to leave business' all day long for reasons that are not posted and the vast overwhelming majority of business' have no rule signs posted for the public.

And you pointing to s sign makes absolutely no sense in a place the size of a BTS station when clearly this guy was not about to listen or follow any security guard anywhere to go look at signs.

And once again, I will remind you that balloons are not allowed on airplanes (regardless of your national origin) but you will not find this sign anywhere in US airports.

[Nisa]

The guard warned him of the rule. The sign is not really the point.

The warning comes before or after the smack on the farang head?

I think the Thai guard is not smart enough to know the difference of the sequential actions.

Another example of a superior attitude that leads some farangs into a rude awakening.