Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[luckyluke]

higher skill than a BTS security guard.

Which come again to the same question, after more than 800 posts, what should the security have done? knowing what he did was wrong, even if the action(s) of the passenger were excessive.

Edited April 14, 2012 by luckyluke

[Curt1591]

What should have been done?

The offender should have been shown the regulation. If shown the regulation, it is highly doubtful anyone would have had to have gone ninja.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, he should have listened to the guard and gotten rid of the balloons or taken a taxi.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

OK...so after 33+ pages of posts, I'm assuming that there's ABSOLUTELY nothing new or newsworthy occurring in this thread...

Haven't heard peepers from the Thai police and probably won't...in either direction. Guessing that both the teacher and BTS would like the whole thing to go away....and they're not doing anything to prolong it...

So what's there more to talk about here... Everyone's had their say...again and again and again.

[Curt1591]

higher skill than a BTS security guard.

Which come again to the same question, after more than 800 posts, what should the security have done? knowing what he did was wrong, even if the action(s) of the passenger were excessive.

Actually, he should have listened to the guard and gotten rid of the balloons or taken a taxi.

The question was concerning the guard.

I believe we all all in agreement that no one handled this well. Unless, of course, one's answer is blind capitulation to authority.

[Curt1591]

You betcha! However in that sort of situation how does one deflate a kids balloon....with a cigarette end....oh whoops. I can't do it. My kids balloons die a normal death, either popped with something, or grow saggy and expire, like we all will. Trying to untie a knot is a skilled art, higher skill than a BTS security guard.

The time used to figure out how to untie the knot could be used as a "cool down" period!

[luckyluke]

I doesn't seem that we will ever know, exactly, what have happened that day, we only know that there was a stupid reaction on a stupid action, the rest is guessing and extrapolation.

What should be interesting to know is if the BTS management changed anything, since then, to their travelling and security rules, or do they just consider this as "much ado about nothing".

This is maybe stuff for an investigation and article from reporter journalist Andrew Drummond.

Edited April 15, 2012 by luckyluke

[whybother]

What the BTS needs to do is put up a sign near the entrance with all the things that people are not allowed to take onto the trains. And it needs to be put up in multiple languages.

Hopefully, there will still be a little bit of room to get tickets and get through the turnstyles.

Or, maybe, they just need a single sign in English: "Please obey the security guards".

[Neurath]

What the BTS needs to do is put up a sign near the entrance with all the things that people are not allowed to take onto the trains. And it needs to be put up in multiple languages.

Hopefully, there will still be a little bit of room to get tickets and get through the turnstyles.

Or, maybe, they just need a single sign in English: "Please obey the security guards".

There are signs doing just that - it shows six or eight items/classes of items. The signs are near the ticket machines. No mention of balloons though. One sign/picture shows and says "no flammable materials".

The issue is properly framed as one about the legitimate/illegitimate use of levels of violence.

Anyone using the argument "he broke the rules, so got what he deserved" would, I assume, have to say precisely the same thing about those shot in the 'exclusion zone" during May 2010. Well, I supposed they'd not "have" to, they could just drift obliviously into hypocrisy.

[Curt1591]

What the BTS needs to do is put up a sign near the entrance with all the things that people are not allowed to take onto the trains. And it needs to be put up in multiple languages.

Hopefully, there will still be a little bit of room to get tickets and get through the turnstyles.

Or, maybe, they just need a single sign in English: "Please obey the security guards".

I counted no less than 9 universal, "not allowed" signs at the Nana BTS station, 6 in one location, 3 in another. The 3 in the different location were the same as 3 of the other 6. The 6 were posted at a couple of locations at the station. None mentioned balloons.

I also took the time to read the printed regulations posted, ... no mention.

Maybe, if there was a sign that stated "Obey the Guards", one might conclude that this was a regulation. It would, at least, make the BTS' position clear.

After all, as someone pointed out, in Thailand, many have the perception that they are "greeters, parking [assistants], door openers and bag carriers."

[whybother]

What the BTS needs to do is put up a sign near the entrance with all the things that people are not allowed to take onto the trains. And it needs to be put up in multiple languages.

Hopefully, there will still be a little bit of room to get tickets and get through the turnstyles.

Or, maybe, they just need a single sign in English: "Please obey the security guards".

There are signs doing just that - it shows six or eight items/classes of items. The signs are near the ticket machines. No mention of balloons though. One sign/picture shows and says "no flammable materials".

The issue is properly framed as one about the legitimate/illegitimate use of levels of violence.

Anyone using the argument "he broke the rules, so got what he deserved" would, I assume, have to say precisely the same thing about those shot in the 'exclusion zone" during May 2010. Well, I supposed they'd not "have" to, they could just drift obliviously into hypocrisy.

So if I'm carrying something that isn't specifically on the signs, I have a right to abuse security personnel and push may through, even after I have been told that what I'm carrying isn't allowed on the train?

[Neurath]

What the BTS needs to do is put up a sign near the entrance with all the things that people are not allowed to take onto the trains. And it needs to be put up in multiple languages.

Hopefully, there will still be a little bit of room to get tickets and get through the turnstyles.

Or, maybe, they just need a single sign in English: "Please obey the security guards".

There are signs doing just that - it shows six or eight items/classes of items. The signs are near the ticket machines. No mention of balloons though. One sign/picture shows and says "no flammable materials".

The issue is properly framed as one about the legitimate/illegitimate use of levels of violence.

Anyone using the argument "he broke the rules, so got what he deserved" would, I assume, have to say precisely the same thing about those shot in the 'exclusion zone" during May 2010. Well, I supposed they'd not "have" to, they could just drift obliviously into hypocrisy.

So if I'm carrying something that isn't specifically on the signs, I have a right to abuse security personnel and push may through, even after I have been told that what I'm carrying isn't allowed on the train?

No idea why you would draw that conclusion. Mind you, were I told that I wasn't allowed to wear my trousers I might get somewhat upset. But only because the sight of my naked hairy legs might scare the passengers, they'd panic, and there you go, a disaster. Might have to pop the guard for trying to take them - safety issue you understand.

[Curt1591]

So if I'm carrying something that isn't specifically on the signs, I have a right to abuse security personnel and push may through, even after I have been told that what I'm carrying isn't allowed on the train?

If absolutely nothing else, I think most are in agreement that it was not handled well by either side.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I believe we all all in agreement that no one handled this well. Unless, of course, one's answer is blind capitulation to authority.

I agree with both, the latter only as a matter of practicality over principle, after all TiT.

Or, maybe, they just need a single sign in English: "Please obey the security guards".

Maybe, if there was a sign that stated "Obey the Guards", one might conclude that this was a regulation. It would, at least, make the BTS' position clear.

After all, as someone pointed out, in Thailand, many have the perception that they are "greeters, parking [assistants], door openers and bag carriers."

Yes, perhaps they don't realize that this is necessary for some* to explicitly be told.

Anyone using the argument "he broke the rules, so got what he deserved" would, I assume, have to say precisely the same thing about those shot in the 'exclusion zone" during May 2010.

I don't think anyone says he deserved what he got, but simply that the guard's overreaction would have been prevented by calm common sense on his part. Neither are excused for their part, but note that letting him barge his way in was never option once he'd been told he couldn't enter with the balloons. Walking away was always an option for him.

Isn't it time this thread be closed?

[Nisa]

Maybe, if there was a sign that stated "Obey the Guards", one might conclude that this was a regulation. It would, at least, make the BTS' position clear.

I get your point but as you read what you wrote, do you see how illogical this positioning is becoming? I mean do you need a separate sign to explain that says signs should be obeyed too or are we treading on what is common sense and knowledge yet?

Edited April 15, 2012 by Nisa

[Curt1591]

Maybe, if there was a sign that stated "Obey the Guards", one might conclude that this was a regulation. It would, at least, make the BTS' position clear.

I get your point but as you read what you wrote, do you see how illogical this positioning is becoming? I mean do you need a separate sign to explain that says signs should be obeyed too or are we treading on what is common sense and knowledge yet?

Didn't you maintain that the presence of a "No Balloon" sign is irrelevant?

For me, and many others, not allowing balloons is neither common sense or common knowledge.

Besides greeting, parking assistance, and other cordial tasks, Thai guards are, indeed, there to enforce regulations. But, they are not there to dictate what some may perceive as common sense.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe, if there was a sign that stated "Obey the Guards", one might conclude that this was a regulation.

Most people can figure that out on their own.

[Curt1591]

Maybe, if there was a sign that stated "Obey the Guards", one might conclude that this was a regulation.

Most people can figure that out on their own.

Besides greeting, parking assistance, and other cordial tasks, Thai guards are, indeed, there to enforce regulations. But, they are not there to dictate what some may perceive as common sense.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Curt1591

[animatic]

What ever happened to the TOPIC:

Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

Isn't it a miles and miles over the top, no matter what he did, for anyone to be threatening the family???

You all have completely lost the plot of this thread.

[whybother]

What ever happened to the TOPIC:

Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

Isn't it a miles and miles over the top, no matter what he did, for anyone to be threatening the family???

You all have completely lost the plot of this thread.

Everyone agreed that it was a low act. It didn't need any more discussion.

[flyingsporran]

What the BTS needs to do is put up a sign near the entrance with all the things that people are not allowed to take onto the trains. And it needs to be put up in multiple languages.

Hopefully, there will still be a little bit of room to get tickets and get through the turnstyles.

Or, maybe, they just need a single sign in English: "Please obey the security guards".

There are signs doing just that - it shows six or eight items/classes of items. The signs are near the ticket machines. No mention of balloons though. One sign/picture shows and says "no flammable materials".

The issue is properly framed as one about the legitimate/illegitimate use of levels of violence.

Anyone using the argument "he broke the rules, so got what he deserved" would, I assume, have to say precisely the same thing about those shot in the 'exclusion zone" during May 2010. Well, I supposed they'd not "have" to, they could just drift obliviously into hypocrisy.

So if I'm carrying something that isn't specifically on the signs, I have a right to abuse security personnel and push may through, even after I have been told that what I'm carrying isn't allowed on the train?

Thats a new one - where is it said he abused the guards?

[meand]

Hypothetical situation: let's just suppose (bear with my hackneyed example) there is some info about a city-wide threat of some kind. A call goes out to all the BTS guards saying they are not to permit X on the BTS. Maybe the X is packages over a certain size, whatever. The point is, it doesn't matter. You have no right to question it, your choices are to either not use the BTS, or trash X (if that is even an option). This one example, along with a thousand others like it, proves that it is so obviously pointless to talk about posted signs, or lack thereof. All that matters is the guard said no. The other point here is people need to respect that authority, because if they don't, it can put everybody at risk.

Edited April 16, 2012 by meand

[animatic]

Hypothetical situation: let's just suppose (bear with my hackneyed example) there is some info about a city-wide threat of some kind. A call goes out to all the BTS guards saying they are not to permit X on the BTS. Maybe the X is packages over a certain size, whatever. The point is, it doesn't matter. You have no right to question it, your choices are to either not use the BTS, or trash X (if that is even an option). This one example, along with a thousand others like it, proves that it is so obviously pointless to talk about posted signs, or lack thereof. All that matters is the guard said no. The other point here is people need to respect that authority, because if they don't, it can put everybody at risk.

But disrespecting a security guard is not valid reason to be given a group beating by several of them.

Nor have your family and job threatened, and be warned to leave the country or else.

His indiscretion was bad, but the security companies multiple indiscretions are way,

way out of the proper proportion, or range of control needed to end the problem.

Nothing close to parity or a reasonable response to his disruption or actions.

More like a Songchaow or Tuk Tuk driver gang giving a disgruntled passenger a beating,

because he dared to stand up to one of them and they lost face, so swung on him,

knowing back up would soon join them.

Edited April 16, 2012 by animatic

[whybother]

Thats a new one - where is it said he abused the guards?

He didn't yell at them? He didn't kick one of them? Maybe I watched a different video.

[Curt1591]

If there was an specific new threat, than the guards would, most likely, state so. This wasn't the case in this incident.

[Curt1591]

BTW,...

I found an elusive "No Balloon" sign. I contacted the person who's image I posted and he told me it was taken at "SIAM". Went down there, and low and behold, there is a sign, taped to the inside of the cashier's kiosk! One would think that they could tape them at the other stations too.

The MRT seems to have a better act, although I'm not quite sure what the bottom left icon prohibits: http://bquot.com/btl

[p_brownstone]

BTW,...

I found an elusive "No Balloon" sign. I contacted the person who's image I posted and he told me it was taken at "SIAM". Went down there, and low and behold, there is a sign, taped to the inside of the cashier's kiosk! One would think that they could tape them at the other stations too.

The MRT seems to have a better act, although I'm not quite sure what the bottom left icon prohibits: http://bquot.com/btl

You clearly have a fixation about the "No Balloons" sign - as (I think) Nisa said - get over it!

There is a sign "No Animals" with a rather generic image of a dog - there is no sign specifying, for example, no Alligators (or, since this is Thailand "No Elephants") but you apparently expect one?

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

What ever happened to the TOPIC:

Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

Isn't it a miles and miles over the top, no matter what he did, for anyone to be threatening the family???

You all have completely lost the plot of this thread.

There was another Thread about the incident in general but it was closed by the Mods and subsequently disappeared - hence this is the only Forum available to discuss the out of control TEFLER.

Patrick

[longtom]

Guys, really,

[p_brownstone]

This is maybe stuff for an investigation and article from reporter journalist Andrew Drummond.

No chance of that - Drummond has already firmly nailed his colours to Behan's mast.

Invited, by me, to find and interview the Farang friend of Behan clearly seen on the Video desperately trying to restrain him (Behan), the one person who was obviously there throughout this incident from start to finish, Drummond responded to the effect that he would not even consider doing so to avoid additional trauma to the persons involved.

Probably the first instance worldwide of a "Reporter" having the slightest consideration for the feelings and sensitivities of a potential Interviewee!

Patrick