Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[Colabamumbai]

When i read about this I think of what would have happened in Canada, if he didnot comply with a quards request. Here is what I think would have happened especially if he tried to force his way through with the balloons. He would have probably been tasered. Then balloons and him taken to local police station and his wife and child would have had to arrange bail. He would have had to go to court and probably have a criminal record at the end of it all. He and his family should apologize to the quard, the BTS and pay the quard for lost wages , pain and suffering.

A public apology would help alot.

Yes and being a Canadian, I know that if he got up after the taser, they would have shot him in self defense.

[Nisa]

This guy has offered up a half hearted apology. He caused the problem, end of story.

If he has a further complaint about being attacked and beaten twice, fair comment, except....

He caused the problem in the first place. No excuses, it's down to him for non-compliance.

His best bet would have been to actually apologize for his actions and not make flippant comments at how hindsight is blah blah blah. It really came off badly and he seemed to be saying yea, I did wrong but that is not what matters. There is no excusing his behavior and he knows it wouldn't be accepted back home and he would have faced much greater consequences. So, as long as he publicly wants to not fully take responsibility that his actions were not EXTREMELY unacceptable here too, I suspect people will see him as having a superiority complex over Thais, regardless if this is the case or not.

On the other side, if he was assaulted by BTS staff, then he also has the right to pursue those legal actions but if he doesn't want to be viewed in the light he is by many, then he needs to clearly accept responsibilities for his own actions publicly given the video posted on youtube. Accepting your actions, without blaming others for them, goes along way in helping people to understand and accept your mistakes, even when they are as bad as this guys. Again, taking responsibilities for your own actions in now way should excuse or prevent you from taking appropriate steps in going after those who did you wrong.

It is odd too because I get the feeling this guy is probably a good guy who just went a bit nutty. He even has made clear he didn't want charges against the guard or the guard being fired. The problem is, unless it is selective editing by news reporters, he isn't coming off as the least bit sorry for his actions we see on the tape ... just very bad PR for himself.

I also agree that he should continue to push for the release of all the videos but that is up to the police now since it is an investigation and not the BTS. So, asking the BTS to so seems he either doesn't understand this or is playing a game.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Nisa

[p_brownstone]

From the comments by the Security Guard - referred to in this Video - he believed the man had been drinking before the incident.

He also says :

1) He, the Security Guard - talked to the father first and then asked the daughter (who apparently speaks better Thai than her father) to explain to her father that he could not take the balloons onto the Skytrain, she did that but then told the Guard that her father "would not listen" - which in this context I take to mean "refused to comply".

2) Behan was also swearing at the Guards "like a teenager" which I again take to mean "in an immature fashion" - shouting "F you!" several times - in front of his own 7 year old daughter don't forget, very good parenting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXKHhqoYbWQ

Patrick

[Briggsy]

BTS security guards do appear to take their job very seriously.

I recall being sternly warned when a guard spotted I was holding a recently-purchased sandwich in a sealed clear plastic box. First of all, he wouldn't let me pass and then relented providing I didn't open it on the train.

There is indeed a no food or drink rule.

[chrisinth]

It is not the publics right to have access to the CCTV; this is between the Irish passenger and BTS.

It's been made public by one video I'm afraid, so it should all be made public. BTS refusing to release the CCTV footage makes this whole thing smell quite badly.

I agree that it would be nice to see, but the released video was uploaded to U-Tube by an individual, the CCTV footage is BTS owned and that is the difference.

[rfukata]

Once again,

Here is the danger of losing your temper in Thailand.

Now this family is being intimidated. All because this man created a confrontation. It's stupidity on his part. Who, with any knowledge of Thailand, would seriously consider causing a confrontation over a bunch of balloons?

Yes the assault was over the top, but let it be a lesson to everybody.

Don't fight in Thailand, don't be aggressive in Thailand, don't look for confrontation.

You will pay a price like you cannot believe, just as this guy has done.

I can agree with you on your take but it's always not the foreigners fault, it can go both ways.

[Nisa]

It is not the publics right to have access to the CCTV; this is between the Irish passenger and BTS.

It's been made public by one video I'm afraid, so it should all be made public. BTS refusing to release the CCTV footage makes this whole thing smell quite badly.

The police have the video and it is a criminal investigation that is on going. It would be highly inappropriate for BTS to release the videos publicly and interfere with a police investigation. I look forward to (hopefully) seeing the videos but there are numerous reasons (all appropriate) why "BTS" should not release the videos without a court order and that currently it is up the police to decide if they should be released . Generally speaking you don't release video like this until (at minimum) you have gotten ALL witness accounts otherwise seeing the video can slant witness testimony.

[Reasonableman]

No taking food or drink onto the train, or no consumption of food and drink on the train? No balloons means no balloons, inflated, deflated or otherwise, does it not? No food means no food, and yet you were allowed to take it on board. BTW, how would one go about enforcing that rule? Even airlines let you take food on board.

BTS security guards do appear to take their job very seriously.

I recall being sternly warned when a guard spotted I was holding a recently-purchased sandwich in a sealed clear plastic box. First of all, he wouldn't let me pass and then relented providing I didn't open it on the train.

There is indeed a no food or drink rule.

[chrisinth]

BTS have never (in the articles I have read anyway) admitted blame for what happened. They have however apologised to the passenger

The BTS have not apologised to the Irishman - this is confirmed by his wife when she went to report the alleged telephone threat to the police. A BTS Representative did send flowers to the family but this was only in recognition of the distress the incident caused to the family - they did not admit or accept responsibility in any way.

Patrick

I think as long as the flowers weren't mistaken for a wreath, then that to me would appear as a form of apology.

And you are correct (in the articles I have read anyway) that they have not admitted or accepted responsibility, which is why I said earlier they may be taking it a step further and withholding the CCTV footage for court.

[Suradit69]

... just plain foolish in a country where 'face' is so important..

Interesting how issues of saving "face" in Thailand are often commented on while at the same time so many ballistic farang comments on ThaiVisa are the result of farang upset that not everyone loves them or that they were not treated fairly or someone caused them embarrassment.

Saving face is important everywhere. "Going postal" in the US or school shootings or the frequent youth or football riots/rampages in the UK are usually inspired by a sense of being marginalized or having one's self-esteemed trampled upon, i.e. an attempt to redress a loss of face.

[longstebe]

Not sure what a tazer incident in Canada has to do with an altercation on a skytrain station in Thailand.

Please tell me you are not suggesting that tazers should be issued to security guards here.

BTW, I didn't see any balloons visible in that clip, which is probably a good thing otherwise it may have got ugly!

It was a merely a reply to another poster. I'm not suggesting anything like you mention.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[Jaivin2011]

I am a foreigner but not a farang......but whenever I am bored, I ove to go to thaivisa and see farangs bash their own fellow farangs! There seem to be no solidarity among them. Even if you are in the various clubs,chambers of commerce etc....they always have this attitude that they are better than the next guy(fellow farng) and worst if they are married to a thai or have been in thailand for long....they feel like they own the place and all their otehr country man do not know things better than them......simply hilarious.

Give the irsih guy a break dudes...whether he was in the right or wrong....no security guard has the right to club the guy on the head....maybe its ok from where you come from to be tasered or put on the floor or whatever....its a reflection of the society from where you hail from.

[chrisinth]

Not sure what a tazer incident in Canada has to do with an altercation on a skytrain station in Thailand.

Please tell me you are not suggesting that tazers should be issued to security guards here.

BTW, I didn't see any balloons visible in that clip, which is probably a good thing otherwise it may have got ugly!

It was a merely a reply to another poster. I'm not suggesting anything like you mention.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Cheers Didn't really think you were.

[BWPattaya]

I read this, and the earier thread, and think about all the times I have been on the skytrain. I think about all of the people I know who have been on it as well. None of us has ever had a problem with a guard, none of us has ever heard about a problem with a guard.

But, that doesn't make news does it?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I am a foreigner but not a farang......but whenever I am bored, I ove to go to thaivisa and see farangs bash their own fellow farangs! There seem to be no solidarity among them.

As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with whether the teacher was a farang or not, or if it had been a Thai.

Whether the teacher involved was a farang or a Thai, many of us saw the same out-of-control, aggressive, maniac behavior on the video. And I believe many of us would have the same opinion of it no matter who was the person involved.

It's the behavior and conduct that's the issue, not whether the teacher and guard were Thai, farang, or anything else.

I don't criticize Thais or farangs because of who they are. I criticize people who do stupid, anti-social things, regardless of who they are.

Edited March 25, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[kjun12]

7 He and his family should apologize to the quard, the BTS and pay the quard for lost wages , pain and suffering.

A public apology would help alot.

I agree with you about what would have happened in Canada and think the same would happen in the US. But don't wait for an apology from this ass or his family. He was a jerk then and I'll bet he is one now and in the future. Jerks like this just keep on kicking.

[FarangTalk]

I am a foreigner but not a farang......but whenever I am bored, I ove to go to thaivisa and see farangs bash their own fellow farangs! There seem to be no solidarity among them. Even if you are in the various clubs,chambers of commerce etc....they always have this attitude that they are better than the next guy(fellow farng) and worst if they are married to a thai or have been in thailand for long....they feel like they own the place and all their otehr country man do not know things better than them......simply hilarious.

Give the irsih guy a break dudes...whether he was in the right or wrong....no security guard has the right to club the guy on the head....maybe its ok from where you come from to be tasered or put on the floor or whatever....its a reflection of the society from where you hail from.

I agree, Thailand tends to attract a lot of self-loathing people that never made it back home.

The irony of course they will never be accepted by the Thais, and this leads to a resounding bitterness aimed at their fellow expatriates in desperation to gain an acceptance they will never receive from their hosts.

[NickMorley]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

[Nisa]

Given there is only a personal Youtube video in the public eyes, I can only wonder what would be the reaction to this case if this guy released a statement along these lines ...

After seeing the video posted on YouTube, I am shocked at my behavior and cannot believe I am looking at myself. I sincerely apologize to the station manger and staff and to anyone else my highly inappropriate behavior may have affected.

I am very saddened this incident and my actions have caused some to in anyway make this a race issue when this is not the case at all. I choose to live and work and in this beautiful country and love my Thai wife and daughter very much and am extremely saddened that anyone has taken this incident and tried to make it about either Thai or Foreigner racism. I strongly encourage the full release of the BTS Security tapes so that people can see this is not the case and although nothing can excuse my behavior, I'm sure the release of the video will show there were grave mistakes made on both sides of this incident and that neither myself, security, our families should be the target of anyone's hatred. Now that emotions have settled on both sides and calmer heads can prevail, this is an issue we are currently working to resolve through proper channels and between the parties involved.

While I understand the public's fascination with this very public incident given the sensational coverage it has been given, I ask the public to reserve final judgement until all the evidence is presented and to not allow their emotions to cause them to act in regrettable ways as they will find in the end that this is the exact reason that this regrettable incident at the BTS occurred.

[FarangTalk]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

If the Thais deserve better, why do they themselves treat people from less socially advantaged positions so badly?

He was acting just like a middle class Thai would have in the same situation.

However, if he were Thai and from a higher social strata, it would be unlikely he would have been assaulted as the penalties for doing so would be so severe for the guards. Likely it would be their families threatened instead.

Edited March 25, 2012 by FarangTalk

[chrisinth]

From the comments by the Security Guard - referred to in this Video - he believed the man had been drinking before the incident.

He also says :

1) He, the Security Guard - talked to the father first and then asked the daughter (who apparently speaks better Thai than her father) to explain to her father that he could not take the balloons onto the Skytrain, she did that but then told the Guard that her father "would not listen" - which in this context I take to mean "refused to comply".

2) Behan was also swearing at the Guards "like a teenager" which I again take to mean "in an immature fashion" - shouting "F you!" several times - in front of his own 7 year old daughter don't forget, very good parenting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXKHhqoYbWQ

Patrick

Thanks for the link Patrick, first time I have seen this one. Another point to this clip is the fact that he admits that he was wrong in what he did (in hindsight), but appears adament that the CCTV footage tells another story.

Personally, I still think that he is way out of order (in what was is in the U-Tube video), but it may not all be his fault, and until everyone sees the CCTV footage, then this still remains open.

That said, it was explained to him by the security staff, translated by his daughter so there would be no mistake in the message, and still he made the decission to barge his way through.

BTW, he lays a lot of the blame on the forums for coming to the speculative conclusions that they have.

Edited March 25, 2012 by chrisinth

[chrisinth]

I read this, and the earier thread, and think about all the times I have been on the skytrain. I think about all of the people I know who have been on it as well. None of us has ever had a problem with a guard, none of us has ever heard about a problem with a guard.

But, that doesn't make news does it?

apparently, as long as your sandwiches aren't wrapped in balloons, you should be OK and treated as a normal passenger

[noitom]

The equivalent of Scotland Yard or the FBI should immediately track the incoming phone number originating that threat call and make a charge and arrest. The big question is why they didn't do that immediately?

[mauGR1]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

I agree, good post.

Also the foreigners here earn about 10 times what a normal Thai earns for a month..I would expect them to be a bit more considerate than a country Thai guy who's scraping for a living in the big city.

[GentlemanJim]

Whoever made the call obviously knew where he taught. Maybe one of the parents of his students?

I for one have no idea why this guy is allowed to continue teaching after he clearly showed a disregard for Thai law. He should be fired end of story. I would not want my son or daughter being taught by a hot headed guy with no respect for law.

Maybe that's why he received the threats.

Well you appear to be as hot headed as you think he is.

The teacher involved has now joined a club of people with a very valuable higher form of education, my self included. He now possesses a PhD in Hindsight. This valuable training now tells him that perhaps he ought to have thought about his little girls desire to keep the balloons and gone back down the stairs and jumped in to a cab. Or if indeed you are going to try and get on the BTS with balloons or food or any other contraband, it is easily achieved by putting said items in a carrier bag (it helps save such things as happened to me, having to yam down a 1 liter ice cold milk shake while the guard watches because you can't take it on the train and you can't bear losing 59 baht).

This is all part of life's rich and varied tapestry. I doubt the security man is out of a job, he is now likely opening doors in MBK or Paragon. The teacher got a smack on the head, and if he were to avoid any confrontation it should be the forthcoming legal one. Drop it pick the scabs of your head and go back to how things were the day before the event.

I think there is only one apology due and that is to the little girl. Daddy should say sorry and let her know it wont happen again and perhaps the BTS should say sorry to her for hitting her Daddy on the head. Move on, there are people dying in the South and Politicians raping the country, preparing for a revolution.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The most telling part in the video is at about 5:30 in where the guy himself is talking in English, and basically saying he's not perfect and in hindsight he shouldn't have done what he did. But he's maintaining he didn't deserve what he got.

The guy on the video being interviewed comes off a fair bit more calm and composed, of course, than the maniac at the BTS station the day all this occurred.

[Nisa]

Once again,

Here is the danger of losing your temper in Thailand.

Now this family is being intimidated. All because this man created a confrontation. It's stupidity on his part. Who, with any knowledge of Thailand, would seriously consider causing a confrontation over a bunch of balloons?

Yes the assault was over the top, but let it be a lesson to everybody.

Don't fight in Thailand, don't be aggressive in Thailand, don't look for confrontation.

You will pay a price like you cannot believe, just as this guy has done.

AGREED !

Agree too with the exception I would replace the word "Thailand" with the words "any foreign country" or better yet with the word "anywhere"

Edited March 25, 2012 by Nisa

[FarangTalk]

Move on, there are people dying in the South and Politicians raping the country, preparing for a revolution.

Ain't that the truth.

[thaicbr]

I have to ask do they actually have signs up saying 'no balloons allowed '

knowing how some police and security guards react here I can fully understand how this could have started (they can be very obnoxious and loud) . especially as he said they had been on the skytrain already with the balloons (which were a gift for his daughter)

yes. he should have controlled his temper but would you if you had just been bashed around the head hard enough to draw blood.

I'm pretty sure I would be as angry as him.

[monty1412]

Once again,

Here is the danger of losing your temper in Thailand.

Now this family is being intimidated. All because this man created a confrontation. It's stupidity on his part. Who, with any knowledge of Thailand, would seriously consider causing a confrontation over a bunch of balloons?

Yes the assault was over the top, but let it be a lesson to everybody.

Don't fight in Thailand, don't be aggressive in Thailand, don't look for confrontation.

You will pay a price like you cannot believe, just as this guy has done.

And this should be carved in stone and handed out to every expat who decides to settle here in Thailand... sage advice and spot on... LIKE IT LIKE IT LIKE IT LIKE IT ( like it button only allows one hit)