Racism Against Farangs

[kerryk]

I had an unsettling experience today. The Mia and I live in a Thai style condo in BKK, I am the only farrang in the building and I havent seen any in or around the area we live. As we left the building and entered the soi I noticed a guy staring at me intently, I nodded at him and he screamed at me. I have limited Thai so I asked the mia what he said? She replied that she didnt understand him but not to worry because he was just a stupid rude man, which means she didnt want to translate it for me.. I have been abused before but usually its followed by laughter or its whispered which dilute the threat. But as I said I dont know what he said but the manner he spoke upset me, he screamed at me with such venom and hatred that the incident haunted me all day.

I realised then that we interact with Thai thousands of time without incident or malice but it only takes one bad incident to ruin your day and has the potential to spiral into violence that could ruin your life.

I don't know if it will help but referring to your wife as mia is low so or bar girl talk. Try "pal e a." It is the polite way to say wife.

[Disinto]

Not trying to hijack this thread but I have a different view here.

I've been in Thailand for a year and half, which not exactly a very long duration by the standards on this forum, but sufficient to have an early feedback compared to my experience living in other Asian countries (Singapore, Malaysia).

As much as I love Thailand, Bangkok, its food, the people's smile and other perks that make my expat life such a joy, I must admit that there's one fringe of the population I started to dislike: the so-called Thai-Chinese hi-sos. I truly despise their behaviour. They often ignore farangs (and other people?), are so persuaded to rule the city with their money and think farangs are all the same. I mentioned this point to other expats and most noticed that too. So why are they acting like that?

Mind you, I still have excellent contact with most of the Thais and I truly love mingling, chit chatting despite my limited Thai skills, soaking into typical districts with my camera and taking beautiful shots. I also love my Thai colleagues and we have the best laughs ever. My life is much better here compared to Malaysia. There's just this hiatus that prevents me to fully enjoy my situation here. Farangs in Malaysia and Singapore are treated differently. Remnants of the colonization maybe? Note that I don't endorse double standards.

I got to Thailand in 1968. If you were me you would know how silly that sounds. But it would make a good racist party game. Pick out the Thai Chinese. Bet it would sell in Bangkok.

Then I guess I should abide by your absolute superiority - you've been there for SO long.

There's no racism involved. It's a mere observation. I've been quite involved in ethnic and anthropological studies to just be picking out racism. That's ridiculous.

I'll bet you are a big hit in Africa picking out what percent of white Africans have in them. Tell us what anthropological studies identify the percent of Chinese in a Thai person and how you can spot them. The last studies I remember that taught people how to identify people by racial appearance were conducted in Germany in the late 1940's. I assume you are referring to those.

I'll forgive your lack of education on this topic given that you visibly don't know what anthropological studies actually are and that you only see racism. Crawl any serious university library (not in Thailand, mind you) to find interesting literature.

[waza]

I call her Mia because she wants me too and she is university educated and professionally employed as an executive for an international company based in Hong Kong but oversees their operations in mainland China and Bangaladesh.

[brit1984]

Moral of the story, racists are all over the place, some people are just downright stupid. Keyword is "some". So it's not as bad as it seems, you can choose your friends and dismiss your enemies. You don't need to be friends with everybody, as well as not everybody has to friends with you. So get over it and move on, but make sure you still treat people the same way you want them to treat you.

I think the OP agrees with you, that racists are everywhere, in every country, every community, large and small. That being the case, why are we even discussing this topic? It's like asking why the Thais get up every morning to go take a leak. If everyone everywhere is racist...oh nevermind.

read the subject "HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT?"

thought it was pretty clear, ...

but so far most people are questionning the fact that there is - or not - racism here

I have not read everything but so far all I have as "how to deal with it " is

-"To be thick skinned " or "Water off duck's back" ; which I think already am anyway

- pour your shopping over a till assistant's head, which sounds a tad much

Many posters have attempted throughout this thread to explain to you that the "racism" you describe is borne out of your own paranoia and that being less paranoid is "how to deal with it".

[kerryk]

I call her Mia because she wants me too and she is university educated and professionally employed as an executive for an international company based in Hong Kong but oversees their operations in mainland China and Bangaladesh.

Then ask her. Pal e a. She will appreciate it.

[aneliane]

Moral of the story, racists are all over the place, some people are just downright stupid. Keyword is "some". So it's not as bad as it seems, you can choose your friends and dismiss your enemies. You don't need to be friends with everybody, as well as not everybody has to friends with you. So get over it and move on, but make sure you still treat people the same way you want them to treat you.

I think the OP agrees with you, that racists are everywhere, in every country, every community, large and small. That being the case, why are we even discussing this topic? It's like asking why the Thais get up every morning to go take a leak. If everyone everywhere is racist...oh nevermind.

read the subject "HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT?"

thought it was pretty clear, ...

but so far most people are questionning the fact that there is - or not - racism here

I have not read everything but so far all I have as "how to deal with it " is

-"To be thick skinned " or "Water off duck's back" ; which I think already am anyway

- pour your shopping over a till assistant's head, which sounds a tad much

Many posters have attempted throughout this thread to explain to you that the "racism" you describe is borne out of your own paranoia and that being less paranoid is "how to deal with it".

Yeah and many posters have attested that they experienced it too, so please get over it: your paradise is not perfect.

Let us discuss our issue in peace, and drop the personal attacks. It's just not funny anymore

Edited April 12, 2012 by aneliane

[waza]

I call her Mia because she wants me too and she is university educated and professionally employed as an executive for an international company based in Hong Kong but oversees their operations in mainland China and Bangaladesh.

Then ask her. Pal e a. She will appreciate it.

I discussed it with her and she says mia is more normal, casual and better between friends and lovers while "pan rah ya" is more formal and polite. Actually I call her honey or tee rak, I just call her mia on internet forums and in bars lol.

[HeavyDrinker]

Waza, you come across prats like that the World over pal.

I wouldn't really take to heart what some drunken low lifer thinks of you...

[Kananga]

The silly people who have issues with comfortably and confidently referring to their wife as mia usually have something to hide.

[aneliane]

Once I was on a bus stuck in traffic on the express way and bored, I decided to utilize my time doing my nails and got my nail varnish out.

It was an aircon bus so I thought it could not be that much of a bother smell-wise, especially that we were surrounded by traffic smoke anyhow.

I had not done one hand than a guy looking angry, came to me that he smelt (pêêt), in great length.

I did not get everything obviously, but sensed a lot of hostility for an act which for me seemed quite banal.

Anyway I had promptly stop, put my varnish away, and waited for the end of the lecture politely.

End of the story ?

Nooooo

what I did was apparently VERY VERY reprehensible.

So bad that he went to tell the ticket assistant guy, who came and lectured me about the really horrible nasty nature of my action in a vehement and loud manner so the all bus could hear.

After that I put my Ipod on, and try to forget the all drama.

Apparently someone still had not forgotten about it, because when I look over my shoulder, the guy who told me off the first time (and who was seating much further back from) had come to my row and was sneaking on me to find out if I was still doing it (doing my nails)

I met his gaze and there it was again a THIRD litany about how bad I was to dare to apply my nail varnish on a public bus, which I was not doing anymore anyway but still he found it appropriate to sermon me it about it.

He came a few times to check on me if as if I would have the idea to start my nail routine again.

I think he was just hoping that I would do it again so he could shout at me some more, but I did not give him that satisfaction.

Great ! I thought : We were on the express way, so no one could get off, and I had a hater on my back

He carried on 3 or 4 times like this : snooping on me to check what I was doing, passing me and glancing angrily at me.

I had enough, got up and told him to leave me alone.

I wanted to complain for moral harassment to the ticket guy too, but obviously could not because I was already the " nail varnish bad farang girl", and my thai being minimal, I sensed it would have lead to more aggravation.

So I got yet another loud and angry lecture in front of the all bus. It was the 5th time and I starting to feel humiliated, so I answered him. In English, I did not care if he did not understood me, it did not seem to bother him that I did not get half of his litanies, but may be some people in the bus would understand me and I wanted them to hear a bit of my say.

I told him that I had stopped it ages ago and that he should leave me alone now. He did not obviously, it made things worse, as I knew it would, but I fell better now that I finally said something too.

The all thing was just getting absurd.

I could see how angry he was and that it had not much to do with nail varnish, it was just for him an opportunity to shout his anger and frustration at foreigners. I waited patiently a fifth time that he finished vomiting his hatred and prayed to arrive in town soon.

No one in the bus, said anything, and I was really relieved when we finally arrived at destination and I could get out of his horror of a huis clos

Edited April 12, 2012 by aneliane

[necronx99]

Once I was on a bus stuck in traffic on the express way and bored, I decided to utilize my time doing my nails and got my nail varnish out.

It was an aircon bus so I thought it could not be that much of a bother smell-wise, especially that we were surrounded by traffic smoke anyhow.

I had not done one hand than a guy looking angry, came to me that he smelt (pêêt), in great length.

I did not get everything obviously, but sensed a lot of hostility for an act which for me seemed quite banal.

Anyway I had promptly stop, put my varnish away, and waited for the end of the lecture politely.

End of the story ?

Nooooo

what I did was apparently VERY VERY reprehensible.

So bad that he went to tell the ticket assistant guy, who came and lectured me about the really horrible nasty nature of my action in a vehement and loud manner so the all bus could hear.

After that I put my Ipod on, and try to forget the all drama.

Apparently someone still had not forgotten about it, because when I look over my shoulder, the guy who told me off the first time (and who was seating much further back from) had come to my row and was sneaking on me to find out if I was still doing it (doing my nails)

I met his gaze and there it was again a THIRD litany about how bad I was to dare to apply my nail varnish on a public bus, which I was not doing anymore anyway but still he found it appropriate to sermon me it about it.

He came a few times to check on me if as if I would have the idea to start my nail routine again.

I think he was just hoping that I would do it again so he could shout at me some more, but I did not give him that satisfaction.

Great ! I thought : We were on the express way, so no one could get off, and I had a hater on my back

He carried on 3 or 4 times like this : snooping on me to check what I was doing, passing me and glancing angrily at me.

I had enough, got up and told him to leave me alone.

I wanted to complain for moral harassment to the ticket guy too, but obviously could not because I was already the " nail varnish bad farang girl", and my thai being minimal, I sensed it would have lead to more aggravation.

So I got yet another loud and angry lecture in front of the all bus. It was the 5th time and I starting to feel humiliated, so I answered him. In English, I did not care if he did not understood me, it did not seem to bother him that I did not get half of his litanies, but may be some people in the bus would understand me and I wanted them to hear a bit of my say.

I told him that I had stopped it ages ago and that he should leave me alone now. He did not obviously, it made things worse, as I knew it would, but I fell better now that I finally said something too.

The all thing was just getting absurd.

I could see how angry he was and that it had not much to do with nail varnish, it was just for him an opportunity to shout his anger and frustration at foreigners. I waited patiently a fifth time that he finished vomiting his hatred and prayed to arrive in town soon.

No one in the bus, said anything, and I was really relieved when we finally arrived at destination and I could get out of his horror of a huis clos

I get the feeling that you get treated like this everywhere. Even in your own country.

[aneliane]

Once I was on a bus stuck in traffic on the express way and bored, I decided to utilize my time doing my nails and got my nail varnish out.

It was an aircon bus so I thought it could not be that much of a bother smell-wise, especially that we were surrounded by traffic smoke anyhow.

I had not done one hand than a guy looking angry, came to me that he smelt (pêêt), in great length.

I did not get everything obviously, but sensed a lot of hostility for an act which for me seemed quite banal.

Anyway I had promptly stop, put my varnish away, and waited for the end of the lecture politely.

End of the story ?

Nooooo

what I did was apparently VERY VERY reprehensible.

So bad that he went to tell the ticket assistant guy, who came and lectured me about the really horrible nasty nature of my action in a vehement and loud manner so the all bus could hear.

After that I put my Ipod on, and try to forget the all drama.

Apparently someone still had not forgotten about it, because when I look over my shoulder, the guy who told me off the first time (and who was seating much further back from) had come to my row and was sneaking on me to find out if I was still doing it (doing my nails)

I met his gaze and there it was again a THIRD litany about how bad I was to dare to apply my nail varnish on a public bus, which I was not doing anymore anyway but still he found it appropriate to sermon me it about it.

He came a few times to check on me if as if I would have the idea to start my nail routine again.

I think he was just hoping that I would do it again so he could shout at me some more, but I did not give him that satisfaction.

Great ! I thought : We were on the express way, so no one could get off, and I had a hater on my back

He carried on 3 or 4 times like this : snooping on me to check what I was doing, passing me and glancing angrily at me.

I had enough, got up and told him to leave me alone.

I wanted to complain for moral harassment to the ticket guy too, but obviously could not because I was already the " nail varnish bad farang girl", and my thai being minimal, I sensed it would have lead to more aggravation.

So I got yet another loud and angry lecture in front of the all bus. It was the 5th time and I starting to feel humiliated, so I answered him. In English, I did not care if he did not understood me, it did not seem to bother him that I did not get half of his litanies, but may be some people in the bus would understand me and I wanted them to hear a bit of my say.

I told him that I had stopped it ages ago and that he should leave me alone now. He did not obviously, it made things worse, as I knew it would, but I fell better now that I finally said something too.

The all thing was just getting absurd.

I could see how angry he was and that it had not much to do with nail varnish, it was just for him an opportunity to shout his anger and frustration at foreigners. I waited patiently a fifth time that he finished vomiting his hatred and prayed to arrive in town soon.

No one in the bus, said anything, and I was really relieved when we finally arrived at destination and I could get out of his horror of a huis clos

I get the feeling that you get treated like this everywhere. Even in your own country.

No never in a million years, French people are more or less in awe of nail varnish

Edited April 12, 2012 by aneliane

[HeavyDrinker]

I think I'd have something to say about you doing your nails in an enclosed space...

Oh dear Aneliane, you really are making things tough for yourself...

[waza]

Once I was on a bus stuck in traffic on the express way and bored, I decided to utilize my time doing my nails and got my nail varnish out.

It was an aircon bus so I thought it could not be that much of a bother smell-wise, especially that we were surrounded by traffic smoke anyhow.

I had not done one hand than a guy looking angry, came to me that he smelt (pêêt), in great length.

I did not get everything obviously, but sensed a lot of hostility for an act which for me seemed quite banal.

Anyway I had promptly stop, put my varnish away, and waited for the end of the lecture politely.

End of the story ?

Nooooo

what I did was apparently VERY VERY reprehensible.

So bad that he went to tell the ticket assistant guy, who came and lectured me about the really horrible nasty nature of my action in a vehement and loud manner so the all bus could hear.

After that I put my Ipod on, and try to forget the all drama.

Apparently someone still had not forgotten about it, because when I look over my shoulder, the guy who told me off the first time (and who was seating much further back from) had come to my row and was sneaking on me to find out if I was still doing it (doing my nails)

I met his gaze and there it was again a THIRD litany about how bad I was to dare to apply my nail varnish on a public bus, which I was not doing anymore anyway but still he found it appropriate to sermon me it about it.

He came a few times to check on me if as if I would have the idea to start my nail routine again.

I think he was just hoping that I would do it again so he could shout at me some more, but I did not give him that satisfaction.

Great ! I thought : We were on the express way, so no one could get off, and I had a hater on my back

He carried on 3 or 4 times like this : snooping on me to check what I was doing, passing me and glancing angrily at me.

I had enough, got up and told him to leave me alone.

I wanted to complain for moral harassment to the ticket guy too, but obviously could not because I was already the " nail varnish bad farang girl", and my thai being minimal, I sensed it would have lead to more aggravation.

So I got yet another loud and angry lecture in front of the all bus. It was the 5th time and I starting to feel humiliated, so I answered him. In English, I did not care if he did not understood me, it did not seem to bother him that I did not get half of his litanies, but may be some people in the bus would understand me and I wanted them to hear a bit of my say.

I told him that I had stopped it ages ago and that he should leave me alone now. He did not obviously, it made things worse, as I knew it would, but I fell better now that I finally said something too.

The all thing was just getting absurd.

I could see how angry he was and that it had not much to do with nail varnish, it was just for him an opportunity to shout his anger and frustration at foreigners. I waited patiently a fifth time that he finished vomiting his hatred and prayed to arrive in town soon.

No one in the bus, said anything, and I was really relieved when we finally arrived at destination and I could get out of his horror of a huis clos

I get the feeling that you get treated like this everywhere. Even in your own country.

No never in a million years, French people are more or less in awe of nail varnish

What a horrible situation to be trapped in, I empathsize with you.

[waza]

The silly people who have issues with comfortably and confidently referring to their wife as mia usually have something to hide.

OMB how silly are you, of course I am trying to hide something, its her identity. I agree heavydrinker I should ignore these low life <deleted>.

Edited April 12, 2012 by waza

[necronx99]

Once I was on a bus stuck in traffic on the express way and bored, I decided to utilize my time doing my nails and got my nail varnish out.

It was an aircon bus so I thought it could not be that much of a bother smell-wise, especially that we were surrounded by traffic smoke anyhow.

I had not done one hand than a guy looking angry, came to me that he smelt (pêêt), in great length.

I did not get everything obviously, but sensed a lot of hostility for an act which for me seemed quite banal.

Anyway I had promptly stop, put my varnish away, and waited for the end of the lecture politely.

End of the story ?

Nooooo

what I did was apparently VERY VERY reprehensible.

So bad that he went to tell the ticket assistant guy, who came and lectured me about the really horrible nasty nature of my action in a vehement and loud manner so the all bus could hear.

After that I put my Ipod on, and try to forget the all drama.

Apparently someone still had not forgotten about it, because when I look over my shoulder, the guy who told me off the first time (and who was seating much further back from) had come to my row and was sneaking on me to find out if I was still doing it (doing my nails)

I met his gaze and there it was again a THIRD litany about how bad I was to dare to apply my nail varnish on a public bus, which I was not doing anymore anyway but still he found it appropriate to sermon me it about it.

He came a few times to check on me if as if I would have the idea to start my nail routine again.

I think he was just hoping that I would do it again so he could shout at me some more, but I did not give him that satisfaction.

Great ! I thought : We were on the express way, so no one could get off, and I had a hater on my back

He carried on 3 or 4 times like this : snooping on me to check what I was doing, passing me and glancing angrily at me.

I had enough, got up and told him to leave me alone.

I wanted to complain for moral harassment to the ticket guy too, but obviously could not because I was already the " nail varnish bad farang girl", and my thai being minimal, I sensed it would have lead to more aggravation.

So I got yet another loud and angry lecture in front of the all bus. It was the 5th time and I starting to feel humiliated, so I answered him. In English, I did not care if he did not understood me, it did not seem to bother him that I did not get half of his litanies, but may be some people in the bus would understand me and I wanted them to hear a bit of my say.

I told him that I had stopped it ages ago and that he should leave me alone now. He did not obviously, it made things worse, as I knew it would, but I fell better now that I finally said something too.

The all thing was just getting absurd.

I could see how angry he was and that it had not much to do with nail varnish, it was just for him an opportunity to shout his anger and frustration at foreigners. I waited patiently a fifth time that he finished vomiting his hatred and prayed to arrive in town soon.

No one in the bus, said anything, and I was really relieved when we finally arrived at destination and I could get out of his horror of a huis clos

I get the feeling that you get treated like this everywhere. Even in your own country.

No never in a million years, French people are more or less in awe of nail varnish

They are many things, being French doesn't give you a mandate to be in inconsiderate SOB

Nail polish is likely the most toxic cosmetic there is. Polish includes poisonous substances such as formaldehyde, phthalates, acetone, toluene, and benzophenones. Phthalates, solvents for colors, are toxic to the nervous system; acetone and toluene, which keep the color in liquid form, evaporate quickly and fill the air with noxious fumes, putting your respiratory system at risk. The other substance we fingered, benzophenones, may cause cancer.

.

[aneliane]

Once I was on a bus stuck in traffic on the express way and bored, I decided to utilize my time doing my nails and got my nail varnish out.

It was an aircon bus so I thought it could not be that much of a bother smell-wise, especially that we were surrounded by traffic smoke anyhow.

I had not done one hand than a guy looking angry, came to me that he smelt (pêêt), in great length.

I did not get everything obviously, but sensed a lot of hostility for an act which for me seemed quite banal.

Anyway I had promptly stop, put my varnish away, and waited for the end of the lecture politely.

End of the story ?

Nooooo

what I did was apparently VERY VERY reprehensible.

So bad that he went to tell the ticket assistant guy, who came and lectured me about the really horrible nasty nature of my action in a vehement and loud manner so the all bus could hear.

After that I put my Ipod on, and try to forget the all drama.

Apparently someone still had not forgotten about it, because when I look over my shoulder, the guy who told me off the first time (and who was seating much further back from) had come to my row and was sneaking on me to find out if I was still doing it (doing my nails)

I met his gaze and there it was again a THIRD litany about how bad I was to dare to apply my nail varnish on a public bus, which I was not doing anymore anyway but still he found it appropriate to sermon me it about it.

He came a few times to check on me if as if I would have the idea to start my nail routine again.

I think he was just hoping that I would do it again so he could shout at me some more, but I did not give him that satisfaction.

Great ! I thought : We were on the express way, so no one could get off, and I had a hater on my back

He carried on 3 or 4 times like this : snooping on me to check what I was doing, passing me and glancing angrily at me.

I had enough, got up and told him to leave me alone.

I wanted to complain for moral harassment to the ticket guy too, but obviously could not because I was already the " nail varnish bad farang girl", and my thai being minimal, I sensed it would have lead to more aggravation.

So I got yet another loud and angry lecture in front of the all bus. It was the 5th time and I starting to feel humiliated, so I answered him. In English, I did not care if he did not understood me, it did not seem to bother him that I did not get half of his litanies, but may be some people in the bus would understand me and I wanted them to hear a bit of my say.

I told him that I had stopped it ages ago and that he should leave me alone now. He did not obviously, it made things worse, as I knew it would, but I fell better now that I finally said something too.

The all thing was just getting absurd.

I could see how angry he was and that it had not much to do with nail varnish, it was just for him an opportunity to shout his anger and frustration at foreigners. I waited patiently a fifth time that he finished vomiting his hatred and prayed to arrive in town soon.

No one in the bus, said anything, and I was really relieved when we finally arrived at destination and I could get out of his horror of a huis clos

I get the feeling that you get treated like this everywhere. Even in your own country.

No never in a million years, French people are more or less in awe of nail varnish

They are many things, being French doesn't give you a mandate to be in inconsiderate SOB

Nail polish is likely the most toxic cosmetic there is. Polish includes poisonous substances such as formaldehyde, phthalates, acetone, toluene, and benzophenones. Phthalates, solvents for colors, are toxic to the nervous system; acetone and toluene, which keep the color in liquid form, evaporate quickly and fill the air with noxious fumes, putting your respiratory system at risk. The other substance we fingered, benzophenones, may cause cancer.

10 cl of nail varnish are a drop in the ocean of hundreds of cars fumigating around us

.

[HeavyDrinker]

OMB how silly are you, of course I am trying to hide something, its her identity. I agree heavydrinker I should ignore these low life <deleted>.

Waza, I actually think Kananga was supporting you and ridiculing those who had a pop at you for referring to your wife as "mia".

Most wives (of ANY class) often refer to their husbands as "Man (trans. "it")" (or worse) when they're rattling along with the girls about how you left your socks out or left skidders in the bog etc.

While "Mia" may not be acceptable in a formal situation such as introducing her to strangers or dealing with officials, in day to day life it is perfectly fine.

[waza]

My apologies Kananga, I miss read your post. PS: The missus says I am samee

Edited April 12, 2012 by waza

[HeavyDrinker]

PS: The missus says I am samee

Only to your face...or she wants something...

[HidyHo]

I wish the forum moderators punish posters for "quoting huge chunks of message unnecessarily" which, in some other forums, are considered posting etiquette infraction.

[aneliane]

I wish the forum moderators punish posters for "quoting huge chunks of message unnecessarily" which, in some other forums, are considered posting etiquette infraction.

Sorry I don't come here too much so I don't know all the rules

[kerryk]

When a woman calls me Tee luck I get up and run the other way. Old country song, "Please don't call me darling, darlin." I would imagine some wives call their husband Pu ah. Samee is polite. If a woman called me Pu ah I would run also. Now one clarification, I may be a low life and sometimes I really like being a low life but I am not a drunken low life. I haven't had a drink in years. Nor do I do my nails on the bus, so there! I mean, really, even us low lives have some standards.

Edited April 12, 2012 by kerryk

[StreetCowboy]

When a woman calls me Tee luck I get up and run the other way. Old country song, "Please don't call me darling, darlin." I would imagine some wives call their husband Pu ah. Samee is polite. If a woman called me Pu ah I would run also. Now one clarification, I may be a low life and sometimes I really like being a low life but I am not a drunken low life. I haven't had a drink in years. Nor do I do my nails on the bus, so there! I mean, really, even us low lives have some standards.

Do you not sniff acetone on the bus? You must be posh...

Solvent abuse is for skinflints.

SC

[kerryk]

When a woman calls me Tee luck I get up and run the other way. Old country song, "Please don't call me darling, darlin." I would imagine some wives call their husband Pu ah. Samee is polite. If a woman called me Pu ah I would run also. Now one clarification, I may be a low life and sometimes I really like being a low life but I am not a drunken low life. I haven't had a drink in years. Nor do I do my nails on the bus, so there! I mean, really, even us low lives have some standards.

Do you not sniff acetone on the bus? You must be posh...

Solvent abuse is for skinflints.

SC

Don't they call in huffing? But you are right, I am posh. And I never go to the toilet with only one lady boy!

Edited April 12, 2012 by kerryk

[Berkshire]

As much as I love Thailand, Bangkok, its food, the people's smile and other perks that make my expat life such a joy, I must admit that there's one fringe of the population I started to dislike: the so-called Thai-Chinese hi-sos. I truly despise their behaviour. They often ignore farangs (and other people?), are so persuaded to rule the city with their money and think farangs are all the same. I mentioned this point to other expats and most noticed that too. So why are they acting like that?

I want to make sure I am right in case I ever meet one. How do you tell they are Thai-Chinese? Do you have a trick question or something?

I'll pass on the unwanted sarcasm. There are obvious cues - facial features, skin complexion, hair type, etc. Mostly the same physical criteria used in Malaysia to distinguish Malays from Malaysian Chinese or Malaysian Indians for example.

I'm sorry Disinto, but Kerry's right. There is no way you can distinguish whether a Thai person is in fact Thai-Chinese. And if you're going strictly by skin complexion, then you are being a bit racist. As if to say all dark skin Thais are authentic Thais and light skin Thais are not.

This whole "Thai Chinese" business seems to be a weird farang creation. A Thai person would NEVER refer to themselves as Thai Chinese. They are Thai, period. If you were to ask Thaksin or Yingluck what nationality they are, they will say they are Thai. We have tons of light skin Thais in northern Thailand and I guarantee you that if you were to ask them what nationality they are, they will all say they are Thai. Unless they are in fact Thai Chinese, i.e., an actual Chinese parent. Now if you were to press them about their family tree, some may have some Chinese in their blood. But it matters not, they are Thai. So to single out certain Thais for contempt just because they ignore you...that's silly. Most people ignore strangers, don't they? It seems you expect to be treated special just because you are a farang. You should get over it.

[theblether]

I think a lot of farangs think they are doing Thailand a favour by being here, and they think the red carpet should come out for them everywhere they go.

I think too many farangs are conceited, or as we say in Scotland " They have a healthy conceit of themselves ", equally there are a fair few Thais who have a " Healthy conceit of themselves " too.......so we end up with a Thai v Farang festival of conceitedness.

Too much like hard work for me, I'm content being an amiable idiot and I'll not worry too much about such things.

[Kananga]

As much as I love Thailand, Bangkok, its food, the people's smile and other perks that make my expat life such a joy, I must admit that there's one fringe of the population I started to dislike: the so-called Thai-Chinese hi-sos. I truly despise their behaviour. They often ignore farangs (and other people?), are so persuaded to rule the city with their money and think farangs are all the same. I mentioned this point to other expats and most noticed that too. So why are they acting like that?

I want to make sure I am right in case I ever meet one. How do you tell they are Thai-Chinese? Do you have a trick question or something?

I'll pass on the unwanted sarcasm. There are obvious cues - facial features, skin complexion, hair type, etc. Mostly the same physical criteria used in Malaysia to distinguish Malays from Malaysian Chinese or Malaysian Indians for example.

I'm sorry Disinto, but Kerry's right. There is no way you can distinguish whether a Thai person is in fact Thai-Chinese. And if you're going strictly by skin complexion, then you are being a bit racist. As if to say all dark skin Thais are authentic Thais and light skin Thais are not.

This whole "Thai Chinese" business seems to be a weird farang creation. A Thai person would NEVER refer to themselves as Thai Chinese. They are Thai, period. If you were to ask Thaksin or Yingluck what nationality they are, they will say they are Thai. We have tons of light skin Thais in northern Thailand and I guarantee you that if you were to ask them what nationality they are, they will all say they are Thai. Unless they are in fact Thai Chinese, i.e., an actual Chinese parent. Now if you were to press them about their family tree, some may have some Chinese in their blood. But it matters not, they are Thai. So to single out certain Thais for contempt just because they ignore you...that's silly. Most people ignore strangers, don't they? It seems you expect to be treated special just because you are a farang. You should get over it.

You're ridiculous. Of course you can tell an ethnic Chinese person, they're the ones who look chinese! Light skin, eyes with strong epicanthical folds etc. When I first visited Thailand I didnt notice the difference, it was only after spending a decade in the region, mostly in Singapore and Malaysia which also have large ethnic Chinese populations that I could soon see the difference. So I began thinking to myself, jeez a lot of these Thais dont half look Chinese. So I did some research and this is what I found out...

Slightly more than half of the ethnic Chinese population in Thailand trace their ancestry to the Chaozhou prefecture in eastern Guangdong. This is evidenced by the prevalence of the Minnan Chaozhou dialect among the Chinese in Thailand. A minority trace their ancestry to Hakka and Hainanese immigrants. Sounds pretty 'chinesey' to me.

King Taksin of Thonburi dynastry, was the son of Chinese immigrant from Guangdong Province and was born with a Chinese name. You're comment about Thaksin and etc identifying themselves as Thai is correct. Nearly all of Thai Chinese identify themselves as being Thai due to the highly successful integration of Chinese communities into Thai society. This is in contrast to Singapore and Malaysia where the ethnic Chinese population refer to themselves as CHine Malaysians or Chinese Singaporeans. In addition, over half of ethnic Thais (the rest are southern Thai who are mostly of Malay descent) are descendants of people who migrated from southern China approximately 1,000 years ago and are directly associated, racially, culturally, and linguistically, with China's modern day ethnic minority group, the Dai people. It is estimated that up to 40% of the population have some chinese heritage, however it is clear that this is not the group that Disinto is referring to. Now, some patterns begin to appear when you look closely. While up to 40 percent of the population has some Chinese ancestry, it is believed that over 80% of the Thai economy is owned by ethnic Thai Chinese.

According to a Financial Statistics of the 500 Largest Public Companies in Asia Controlled by Overseas Chinese in 1994 chart released by Sociologist Dr. Henry Yeung of the National University of Singapore, 39 companies were concentrated in Thailand with a market capitalization of 35 billion and total assets of 94 billion US. In Thailand, ethnic Chinese control the four largest private banks.

Saha-Union, Thailand's leading industrial group, have so far invested over USD 1.5 billion in China, and operating over 11 power plants in three of China's provinces. With over other 30 businesses in China, the company employs approximately 7,000 Chinese workers. Central Group, Thailand's largest operator of shopping centers (and owner of Italy's leading department store, La Rinascente) with US$3.5 billion in annual sales founded by a Thai-Chinese Chirathivat family, have recently opened three new large scale department stores in China.

So in summary while it is difficult to distinguish many Thais with chinese ancestry due to a strong level of integration and Thai nationalization it is very clear that there is still an ethnic Chinese Thai elite who control most of the commerce in Thailand and although distinguish themselves as Thai have strong connections to China and the cultural identity that makes ethinic Chinese such ruthless and successful businessmen.

It is these light skinned Chinese looking Thai Chinese, or Sino Thais that hold positons of power and wealth that Disinto is referring to. Ever seen a 'hi so' girl with dark skin? As with people the world over that hold positions of power and wealth you can be sure that arrogance and vulgarity are sure to follow.

I could go on throwing more facts at you and studies on the subject from leading scholars, however I somehow get the impression you are just gong to try and contradict it with a feet stomping 'I'm right and you're wrong' display with no factual basis to back it up so I'll just sit back and let you get on with it.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Kananga

[HeavyDrinker]

Well we're descending into the Historian/Sociologist/Anthropologist's favourite area of "What is Thailand?" here.

I think the common myth with Thai -Chinese - which is also a mistake being made here - is that they are all in the elite.

They are not, which is why I do have to chuckle so when I read some of the fools on this forum bleating on about their "Sino-Thai" (their posh word for them) wives.

Edited April 12, 2012 by HeavyDrinker

[arthurwait]

As much as I love Thailand, Bangkok, its food, the people's smile and other perks that make my expat life such a joy, I must admit that there's one fringe of the population I started to dislike: the so-called Thai-Chinese hi-sos. I truly despise their behaviour. They often ignore farangs (and other people?), are so persuaded to rule the city with their money and think farangs are all the same. I mentioned this point to other expats and most noticed that too. So why are they acting like that?

I want to make sure I am right in case I ever meet one. How do you tell they are Thai-Chinese? Do you have a trick question or something?

I'll pass on the unwanted sarcasm. There are obvious cues - facial features, skin complexion, hair type, etc. Mostly the same physical criteria used in Malaysia to distinguish Malays from Malaysian Chinese or Malaysian Indians for example.

I'm sorry Disinto, but Kerry's right. There is no way you can distinguish whether a Thai person is in fact Thai-Chinese. And if you're going strictly by skin complexion, then you are being a bit racist. As if to say all dark skin Thais are authentic Thais and light skin Thais are not.

This whole "Thai Chinese" business seems to be a weird farang creation. A Thai person would NEVER refer to themselves as Thai Chinese. They are Thai, period. If you were to ask Thaksin or Yingluck what nationality they are, they will say they are Thai. We have tons of light skin Thais in northern Thailand and I guarantee you that if you were to ask them what nationality they are, they will all say they are Thai. Unless they are in fact Thai Chinese, i.e., an actual Chinese parent. Now if you were to press them about their family tree, some may have some Chinese in their blood. But it matters not, they are Thai. So to single out certain Thais for contempt just because they ignore you...that's silly. Most people ignore strangers, don't they? It seems you expect to be treated special just because you are a farang. You should get over it.

As no one would vote for them if they didn't.