Dating Muslima

[StreetCowboy]

I'm from the UK,

At the risk of starting a fight, the Dark Ages are recognized as such as the as the education and enlightenment brought by the Romans dissipated after they left the Island during the fall of the Roman Empire. Prior to the Dark Ages the native aristocracy where being taught and trained by the Romans, after they left the Church effectively became the only source of learning and the Church kept the power of learning to themselves as a way of controlling the population.

There was no better way to terrify someone than to tell them they would be excommunicated and spend eternity in hell huh?.......you would get them dancing to your tune then.

So it is recognized that the Dark Ages for many reasons were a low point in the rights of the British populace.

Now at the risk of being cheeky, I can easily go into a 500,000 word thesis on the history of the UK and the European nations, in fact to hell with it, the world, but it's TV we are on, we need to trim the answers. I get into enough trouble as it is.

I did not realize the dark ages were exclusive to the UK.

Most other countries have moved on...

To be fair to the Blether, his exact words were "the history of the UK and the European nations" and he only refers to our own history by way of example and parochial focus. Luckily now, our expats are bringing to the world the dark ages that were left at home when our brightest lights illuminated the world of Empire.

SC

[sausageandmash]

Just think of all the lovely things you have to look forward to:

1) Being part of the most repressive religion there has every been.

2) No more pork chops.

3) Having to celebrate Ramadam-a-ding-dong.

4) If she thinks you have been cheating on her, it's off with your head, Ken Bigley-style.

Nah, just kidding. Best of luck to both of you.

[007]

Just think of all the lovely things you have to look forward to:

1) Being part of the most repressive religion there has every been.

2) No more pork chops.

3) Having to celebrate Ramadam-a-ding-dong.

4) If she thinks you have been cheating on her, it's off with your head, Ken Bigley-style.

Nah, just kidding. Best of luck to both of you.

Cheers, sausageandmash (first I wanted to write S&M, but thought better of it ) for the good wishes. I'm giving #2 a try (fridge still full with pork products), while trying to avoid #4..

Numbers 1 and 3 are not on the agenda yet, cause way to early.

Edited April 1, 2012 by 007

[Sing_Sling]

I am referring to what you have written and how you have written it.

No, I am intrigued. Which posts exactly do I display traits of being a bigot. You say you have read them, come on then, which ones. Who/what exactly am I displaying a bigoted trait towards.

How utterly disingenuous of you to now try to take the moral highroad . . . Instead of my quoting you constantly why don't you just read your posts prior to this one and take a step back . . . read carefully . . . and you can then answer my questions if you will, though they are clearly uncomfortable to you

Ah: Try Italian, Greek, Spanish etc... fathers who would rip off your testicles if they found you schtupping their daughters - what has that got to do with religion, or in your raison d'etre; Islam specifically?

[Sing_Sling]

Just think of all the lovely things you have to look forward to:

1) Being part of the most repressive religion there has every been.

2) No more pork chops.

3) Having to celebrate Ramadam-a-ding-dong.

4) If she thinks you have been cheating on her, it's off with your head, Ken Bigley-style.

Nah, just kidding. Best of luck to both of you.

Just think of all the lovely things you have to look forward to:

1) Being part of the most repressive religion there has every been.

2) No more pork chops.

3) Having to celebrate Ramadam-a-ding-dong.

4) If she thinks you have been cheating on her, it's off with your head, Ken Bigley-style.

Nah, just kidding. Best of luck to both of you.

I know quite a few mixed marriages here and in Singapore . . . only one of the guys actually follows the dietary rules re. pork, alcohol, haram etc...

We've been on a long-week-end get-away on a lovely island about three hours from here . . . Malay couples drinking wine for dinner, mixed couples having beers by the pool . . .

. . . and a clearly christian woman reading the bible at breakfast . . . no-one cared . . . but I bet if it would have been a Muslim reading the Qu'ran there would have been raised eyebrows and comments . . . imagine some people from here would have seen that.

[Screws]

Don't.......Seriously!

There are so many guys near where I live that continue to fall in to this trap. They all end up separated and/or divorced. The reasons are simple. If your relationship gets that serious you want to marry then you will have to/pretend convert to Islam. Once you have children the problems will start. About the age of two or three the wife's parents will insist on a strong muslim upbringing for their Grandchild. You may be living away from the Grandparents home area, but your wife WILL up and leave with your child, back to her parental home. There are many broken hearted men I know and when I hear another is about to embark on the same course of action I just say why? I have not known a relationship in Thailand between a muslim girl/non muslim man end any differently. If you have a baby girl she will be a valuable 'asset' to the family, new blood, whitish skin, worthy of a good dowry. I am not being racist or bigoted, these are just the facts from many many thai men I know that fell in love with a muslim woman. All will be great and well until you have children and they reach toddler age. Your wife may even love you very much but when her parents say 'come home and bring the child', thats it, and you will get NO visiting rights.

By the way, don't be fooled by the no sex before marriage thing. Young Muslim women are just as curious about sex as any other young woman, but don't get caught, her brothers will have your gonads.

So...you have been warned. Good luck.

That is a well thought out warning, Take heed all ye horny males. I remember dating a Doukhobor girl back in my late teens. Her brothers pretty much sorted me out about having any future with their sister. It's pretty much the same thing with young muslim women and their families.

Thats so sad isnt it, religion humph!!

"I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

"Well ... are you religious or atheist?"

"Religious."

"Me too! Are you Christian or Jewish?"

"Christian."

"Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

"Protestant."

"Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

"Baptist."

"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

"Baptist Church of God."

"Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"

"Reformed Baptist Church of God."

"Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"

"Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"

To which I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.'

Edited April 1, 2012 by Screws

[vincentc]

Don't.

Unless there are no chances that this is ever going to get serious.

If you are not a muslim, do not marry muslims. Faith and family come first, you rank somewhere number 5 or lower down. Don't fool yourself. And no, yours in not different and your family in law is definitely not. There is very little tolerance in intra-religious relationships, in islam in particular.

If you are religious, marry inside your religion.

If you're a non believer, only marry those that don't take their religion too serious.

A long term relationship is difficult enough. You are not only gonna ruin your and perhaps partly your life, but the one of kids as well.

Not that you will listen to this advice (till you experience it, as myself), but at least you've been warned.

Good luck!

[notmyself]

Don't.

Unless there are no chances that this is ever going to get serious.

If you are not a muslim, do not marry muslims. Faith and family come first, you rank somewhere number 5 or lower down. Don't fool yourself. And no, yours in not different and your family in law is definitely not. There is very little tolerance in intra-religious relationships, in islam in particular.

If you are religious, marry inside your religion.

If you're a non believer, only marry those that don't take their religion too serious.

A long term relationship is difficult enough. You are not only gonna ruin your and perhaps partly your life, but the one of kids as well.

Not that you will listen to this advice (till you experience it, as myself), but at least you've been warned.

Good luck!

For myself.... "only marry those that don't take their religion too serious" would not be enough. It is servile to accept being a slave. Why would I want to spend my life with someone who accepts being a slave for no reason? It's quite simple really, I don't want to be owned and I don't recognize anyones right to own me. All religions do this but Islam is by far the worst because it also allows ownership of a human by another human. Women in Islam are owned by their father from birth before being owned by their husband. The only thing I can think of that is more disgusting than that is the willingness to accept it.

[StreetCowboy]

I'm releived that there are so many experts on this thread. I was confused by the appearance and personality of my colleagues; luckily I am in a fairly low-risk group, being already married, but I fear for my expatriate colleagues, especially those married to Muslims. I can only imagine the hell that they are going through, since there are no outward signs to indicate any suffering. I'll need to ask them about it, next time we are down the pub.

I imagine my colleague who has just started dating a Chinese girl has not really thought about the One-Child policy that some Chinese countries practiced, either...

SC

[Markaew]

Don't.......Seriously!

...

So...you have been warned. Good luck.

Great advice, Jim. Still, it's right at the beginning. So, I guess I will just date her a few times and see how it turns out. Can always do the 'runner'; no harm for the girl, as no hanky-panky, right?

You are getting good advice here and you have a fair amount of posts so you aren't a newbie. What is screaming at me now is you are just naive.

[metisdead]

A previously deleted post which was an off topic slam on Islam has been removed. Do not use this topic as an invitation to slam a religion:

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[StreetCowboy]

I'm releived that there are so many experts on this thread

A number of posts have shown quite astute knowledge. I am a consultant for 3 charities which deal with the fallout from religious belief which allows me not to have to get up and go to work in the morning. I also do counseling for a couple of southern US charities which I do every day when I don't go out (I go out maybe twice a month). I'm due to give a speech at a UU church in TX Sept or Oct this year and it's all paid for. I will accept for the first time because it is a church which is paying for it. 30 years under my belt, you?

I imagine my colleague who has just started dating a Chinese girl has not really thought about the One-Child policy that some Chinese countries practiced, either...

SC

Chinese countries?

Specifically, the People's Republic.

I am not an expert, which is why I try to avoid criticising other people's religions, nor generalising based on hyperbole and sensationalist reporting.I've lived a few years in Muslim countries - specifically UAE and Malaysia, and never experienced any problems of a religious nature, except in one case when a big night out had to be transformed from a pub crawl to a house party due to a religious holiday, and the consequent closure of pubs. But that is something that we are all used to, in Thailand.

I attended meetings in Church in both UAE and Malaysia.

SC

Edit: I did not expect the Spanish Inquisition...

Edited April 2, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[metisdead]

The topic is about dating muslima, posts that have veered way off this into making derogatory generalizations/bashing Islam have been removed. Comments on moderation have been removed as per forum rule.

Once again, read this forum rule:

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Sing_Sling]

Whew, I'm glad we got past Islam-bashing and are now onto the specifics of grammar and social specialistaion, mixed in with geo-political and -social expertise. Thank you, notmyself

To echo SD's train of thought - same here. Close to four years in this majority Muslim country and not one single worry re. religion or the repression thereof . . . but then I do have to bow to those with superior armchair knowledge whose knowledge about Islam is based on The Sun factoids about Saudi Arabia a la GentlemanJim

[metisdead]

A profanity post has been removed.

[notmyself]

Could all work out well for the OP but the reason for the thread is that he knows there 'could' be more than just a one on one relationship. I (and others) have tried to point out pitfalls which may or may not happen and given reasons why. Knowledge is power.

[mozzermarr]

I'm not being stupid, or trying to stir the pot in any way, but why would you ever consider trying to have a serious relationship with a muslim? It's all going to end badly, one way or another.

I wish you luck though in forging a go.

g.

[notmyself]

I'm not being stupid, or trying to stir the pot in any way, but why would you ever consider trying to have a serious relationship with a muslim? It's all going to end badly, one way or another.

I wish you luck though in forging a go.

g.

You cannot tar all Muslims with the same brush. I know couples who have been together for a considerable time and it has worked out well thus far. Is it easy...... No. Can it be done........ Yes.

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm not being stupid, or trying to stir the pot in any way, but why would you ever consider trying to have a serious relationship with a muslim? It's all going to end badly, one way or another.

I wish you luck though in forging a go.

g.

You cannot tar all Muslims with the same brush. I know couples who have been together for a considerable time and it has worked out well thus far. Is it easy...... No. Can it be done........ Yes.

IMO a moderate Muslim ( with an approving family ) and a non Muslim would have as much chance of a successful relationship as anyone else. The problem would arise if they had children, and were both intent on raising the child in their own religion.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Another plagiarism by the Abrahamic religions. Comes from the Analects of Confucius.

Plagiarism? You are joking, aren't you?

SC

Yes, each religion has to make up its own "truth" from scratch, that's really going to improve the odds of any one getting it right, eh?

People don't realize that every religion has truth at its core, and to that extent they are all the same. It's just the worldly aspects - cultural specificity, money and power, organizational politics, propoganda for control of the masses - that intrude and screw things up in interpretation.

[travelmann]

Another plagiarism by the Abrahamic religions. Comes from the Analects of Confucius.

Plagiarism? You are joking, aren't you?

SC

Yes, each religion has to make up its own "truth" from scratch, that's really going to improve the odds of any one getting it right, eh?

People don't realize that every religion has truth at its core, and to that extent they are all the same. It's just the worldly aspects - cultural specificity, money and power, organizational politics, propoganda for control of the masses - that intrude and screw things up in interpretation.

Whats a "truth" in religion??? OK show me the evidence? Ok so there is none right?

[buddy]

Another plagiarism by the Abrahamic religions. Comes from the Analects of Confucius.

Plagiarism? You are joking, aren't you?

SC

Yes, each religion has to make up its own "truth" from scratch, that's really going to improve the odds of any one getting it right, eh?

People don't realize that every religion has truth at its core, and to that extent they are all the same. It's just the worldly aspects - cultural specificity, money and power, organizational politics, propoganda for control of the masses - that intrude and screw things up in interpretation.

Truth...which truth are you talking about?

For the Bible ask one of the 40 authors, yes you did read right, 40 authors of the Bible which is the truth?

For the Quran ask one of the nine authors, yes you did read right, 9 authors which is the truth?

Oh an the Bible has more "truth" in it than the Quran if you are a Christian and vice versa if your a Muslim.

They are all deluded and Religions Modus operandi is to catch you when you are young.

Bit harder to indoctrinate a 30 year old.

[bina]

IMO a moderate Muslim ( with an approving family ) and a non Muslim would have as much chance of a successful relationship as anyone else. The problem would arise if they had children, and were both intent on raising the child in their own religion.

probably the only comment on this thread that hits the truth...

the muslem guys i know here definately want muslem only husbands for their sisters; many non muslem women marry muslem males but muslem women married to outsiders is quite rare here, and usually doesnt end up very well, possibly due to the addtional political strain and suroundings here. however, like many interracial/religious marriages, things go ok until kids come along and then all the past history /family expectations hit at once. if the family hasnt made a concious decision to raise the kids in a particular way, the push and tug game starts, with , especially in muslem families, interferance and pressure by grandparents, (grandfathers and uncles usually).

[notmyself]

IMO a moderate Muslim ( with an approving family ) and a non Muslim would have as much chance of a successful relationship as anyone else. The problem would arise if they had children, and were both intent on raising the child in their own religion.

probably the only comment on this thread that hits the truth...

the muslem guys i know here definately want muslem only husbands for their sisters; many non muslem women marry muslem males but muslem women married to outsiders is quite rare here, and usually doesnt end up very well, possibly due to the addtional political strain and suroundings here. however, like many interracial/religious marriages, things go ok until kids come along and then all the past history /family expectations hit at once. if the family hasnt made a concious decision to raise the kids in a particular way, the push and tug game starts, with , especially in muslem families, interferance and pressure by grandparents, (grandfathers and uncles usually).

A good extension to the argument.

I would hope that the odds are that it wouldn't even reach the point where something like this kind hits the surface. Given the misogynistic nature of Islam, any agreement between the OP and his partner is going to be worthless if the males relatives get involved. It's not even only if the tug of war was between two religions, it could well be between religion and non religion. Would I allow my children to be taught pseudoscience? No way. One has to remember that Muslims are Islamic Creationists so children are going to be exposed to that kind of lack of reason from birth. Kids are most likely going to be the straw which broke the camels back but surely anyone who accepts the fact of evolution is not going to get involved with someone who doesn't. I should also add that evolution is a fact, the mechanism behind it (natural selection) is a theory.

[Sing_Sling]

One has to remember that Muslims are Islamic Creationists

And another gross generalisation to add to the multitude . . .

I guess all Jews run around wearing the yarmulke, eating motze balls and wear black robes while all Christians have a cross necklace, kiss Pope Benedict's photo in the mornings and practise sex only for procreation.

I think the problem with this discussion is that we are all presuming that the Muslims we are referencing seem to be traditional, which is as much the case as it is for Jews and Christians and Hindus etc....

Fact is that they're not. As I mentioned previously, I know quite a few mixed marriages here in Malaysia and Singapore . . . no problems, none with brothers, parents, grandparents etc . . . the religion of the child is secondary and it is not as though you are a branded for life.

Hi Bina, long time no hear!

[Somtamnication]

So, the overwhelming consensus is that it is safe to get involved with a muslima, but the family, ie the brothers and uncles et al, are always the problem.

I see no difference then, between marrying a muslima and a bhuddist female. It is a cultural first, then a religious landmine, either way you go.

[notmyself]

One has to remember that Muslims are Islamic Creationists

And another gross generalisation to add to the multitude . . .

I guess all Jews run around wearing the yarmulke, eating motze balls and wear black robes while all Christians have a cross necklace, kiss Pope Benedict's photo in the mornings and practise sex only for procreation.

I think the problem with this discussion is that we are all presuming that the Muslims we are referencing seem to be traditional, which is as much the case as it is for Jews and Christians and Hindus etc....

Fact is that they're not. As I mentioned previously, I know quite a few mixed marriages here in Malaysia and Singapore . . . no problems, none with brothers, parents, grandparents etc . . . the religion of the child is secondary and it is not as though you are a branded for life.

Hi Bina, long time no hear!

Maybe you are right. I'll go check if any Islamic sect has accepted evolution in the last 12 months or so. As I said avove, I also know mised relationships which have worked and they are both very happy. The point to the OP is that a serious amount of investigation is needed.

[notmyself]

So, the overwhelming consensus is that it is safe to get involved with a muslima, but the family, ie the brothers and uncles et al, are always the problem.

.

Not always.

[Sing_Sling]

One has to remember that Muslims are Islamic Creationists

And another gross generalisation to add to the multitude . . .

I guess all Jews run around wearing the yarmulke, eating motze balls and wear black robes while all Christians have a cross necklace, kiss Pope Benedict's photo in the mornings and practise sex only for procreation.

I think the problem with this discussion is that we are all presuming that the Muslims we are referencing seem to be traditional, which is as much the case as it is for Jews and Christians and Hindus etc....

Fact is that they're not. As I mentioned previously, I know quite a few mixed marriages here in Malaysia and Singapore . . . no problems, none with brothers, parents, grandparents etc . . . the religion of the child is secondary and it is not as though you are a branded for life.

Hi Bina, long time no hear!

Maybe you are right. I'll go check if any Islamic sect has accepted evolution in the last 12 months or so. As I said avove, I also know mised relationships which have worked and they are both very happy. The point to the OP is that a serious amount of investigation is needed.

And yet again the sound of reason/normality flying right over your head makes an eerie sound of . . .

But, by all means go forth and find those Islamic sects . . . as ALL Muslims belong to one or another and are quite fervent about it.

What was that sound again?

Ah yes . . .

Edited April 4, 2012 by Sing_Sling

[notmyself]

One has to remember that Muslims are Islamic Creationists

And another gross generalisation to add to the multitude . . .

I guess all Jews run around wearing the yarmulke, eating motze balls and wear black robes while all Christians have a cross necklace, kiss Pope Benedict's photo in the mornings and practise sex only for procreation.

I think the problem with this discussion is that we are all presuming that the Muslims we are referencing seem to be traditional, which is as much the case as it is for Jews and Christians and Hindus etc....

Fact is that they're not. As I mentioned previously, I know quite a few mixed marriages here in Malaysia and Singapore . . . no problems, none with brothers, parents, grandparents etc . . . the religion of the child is secondary and it is not as though you are a branded for life.

Hi Bina, long time no hear!

Maybe you are right. I'll go check if any Islamic sect has accepted evolution in the last 12 months or so. As I said avove, I also know mised relationships which have worked and they are both very happy. The point to the OP is that a serious amount of investigation is needed.

And yet again the sound of reason/normality flying right over your head makes an eerie sound of . . .

But, by all means go forth and find those Islamic sects . . . as ALL Muslims belong to one or another and are quite fervent about it.

What was that sound again?

Ah yes . . .

I've checked and none has.

Interesting to note that while I try and give the OP some things to chew on which he may or may not spit out, you seem to be offering advice and or opinion by attacking other members. The whoosh sound is indeed the sound of arguments going over my head.... After I have ducked out of the way of an onslaught of logical fallacies, false dichotomies, no true Scotsman arguments and straw-men.