Viktor Bout Sentenced To 25 Years

[personchester]

You sure about those terms? Extraction exchange?? I couldn't find it in a google search, but I could find 'prisoner exchange', and 'extradition'. As for 'extraction', isn't that what's done to teeth??

Yes, the word "extraction" means of course pulling out something, dental or otherwise, unfortunately in this case the printing of this word was a typographical error that I overlooked.

However, in my opening sentence I printed, and additionally made reference to the appropriate word "extradition" which is correctly applicable here, thus the word "extraction" should have been seen as a printing error.

Nevertheless, should Russia be able to get "Bout" out of the US without an "extradition" exchange then this could be referred to as an "extraction"

Notwithstanding the above, I apologise for any confusion that this may have caused.

[chuckd]

France would be speaking German, Great Britain would be a colony of Germany, and Australia, New Zealand and India would be colonies of Japan.

And that would be a bad thing? (well, aside from it being the usual nonsensical hyperbole)

Call it 'nonsensical hyperbole' if you wish, but Australia would be a colony of Japan if Japan hadn't made the mistake of attacking the fleet at Pearl Harbour and bringing the US into the war. That would be along with most South East Asian countries and India.

I've worked for the Japanese, in Japan, and I wouldn't enjoy having them as my masters in my own country.......which would be their country if history hadn't played out as it did.

You are leaving out so many variables and that makes it a tired American WWII slogan.

Australia can be successfully invaded by Singapore . . . conquering and holding the place is a completely different thing all-together.

India has a billion people, add Pakistan and Bangla Desh and you have close to two billion . . . no way in the modern world could anyone rule that as a colony.

New Zealand? Sure, go ahead, though my wife would have chucked them out herself

France speaking German - as a second language it already did. GB a colony? Hardly.

You completely negate the reason why Japan attacked the US . . .

You completely negate the problems J and G were having with their supply line

You completely negate social development in the Germany and Japan

You completely negate the population of G and J and the absolute inability to hold such vast territories and populations

(And don't make the mistake of comparing the 19th century and earlier to the 20th and 21st as that would be even less credible)

Really, this thinking belongs in John Wayne movies

I've worked for Japanese as their Sales VP International out of Singapore and they were the best people I have ever worked with/for. Simply fantastic. Perhaps it is the attitude one brings to the table

And you seem to be negating the fact none of these countries you mentioned with their millions of people had a viable fighting force in the 1930's, as did the Japanese.

Look what the Japanese did in China, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and most of the vast Pacific Ocean region. They owned it and were planning on keeping it until the island hopping campaign by the US Marines, ably assisted by the Aussies, started taking the territory back.

Why do you think the Americans were in Guadalcanal so early in the war? It wasn't because of the tropical climate. It was because there was real concern the Japanese had established military bases on the island and they were in easy flying range to bomb Australia. Australia would have fallen, the major cities would have been taken and the Japanese could have cared less what happened in the vast outback. I doubt seriously your wife could have "chucked them out" of New Zealand had they desired to go there as well.

The Japanese military was a formidable force in 1941. You must remember they had been at war for 7-8 years, were battle hardened and the Bushida code ruled them. Anything for the Emperor.

If you enjoyed working for them during your career, I wonder how you would have enjoyed working for them as an Australian or Kiwi during the 1940's..

Quite a few of your countrymen did work for them then. I believe it was in Kanchanaburi and their work site was known as the "Death Railway".

[Sing_Sling]

Way too much hyperbole . . . 'battle-hardened' . . . how about battle-weary.

Way too much John Wayne and no comments on the points I raised, making this a silly discussion.

Yes, Europe would be speaking German and Asia would be Japanese owner-occupied.

Aussies would be saying Konichiwa and Kiwis would be breeding dolphins for export to Japan, India (including Pakistan and B-D) would be part of the Sumo-wrestling world and the UK would be where all the Europeans with bad teeth would be sent.

Oh, hang on . . . Russia . . . nah, that would be too logical to bring into this discussion - as would the fact that US actions vis-a-vis raw material availability to the Japanese pretty much forced their hands.

I'm sorry, but tired old cliches add nothing to a discussion and it is garbage like this which makes you and your argumentation look laughable:

If you enjoyed working for them during your career, I wonder how you would have enjoyed working for them as an Australian or Kiwi during the 1940's..

Quite a few of your countrymen did work for them then. I believe it was in Kanchanaburi and their work site was known as the "Death Railway".

You see, you constantly move the goalposts and, again, use tired old cliches and hillbilly-logic to try to make your 'points'.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Sing_Sling

[Tonawatchee]

Summing it up then, can I presume that Viktor looses Bout?

[chuckd]

Way too much hyperbole . . . 'battle-hardened' . . . how about battle-weary.

Way too much John Wayne and no comments on the points I raised, making this a silly discussion.

Yes, Europe would be speaking German and Asia would be Japanese owner-occupied.

Aussies would be saying Konichiwa and Kiwis would be breeding dolphins for export to Japan, India (including Pakistan and B-D) would be part of the Sumo-wrestling world and the UK would be where all the Europeans with bad teeth would be sent.

Oh, hang on . . . Russia . . . nah, that would be too logical to bring into this discussion - as would the fact that US actions vis-a-vis raw material availability to the Japanese pretty much forced their hands.

I'm sorry, but tired old cliches add nothing to a discussion and it is garbage like this which makes you and your argumentation look laughable:

If you enjoyed working for them during your career, I wonder how you would have enjoyed working for them as an Australian or Kiwi during the 1940's..

Quite a few of your countrymen did work for them then. I believe it was in Kanchanaburi and their work site was known as the "Death Railway".

You see, you constantly move the goalposts and, again, use tired old cliches and hillbilly-logic to try to make your 'points'.

Now you have thrown Russia into the mix? When did the Japanese invade Russia? I thought it was Germany that gave Russia all they could handle. But then, I suppose the Japanese had a secret plan to move their armies through China and invade Russia from the south? Is that the reason for the railway? So they could move their armies in preparation for an invasion of Russia. My hillbilly logic might be off but it is much more realism based than your rewriting of history.

Of course it was the blockade of raw products that drove the Japanese to their insanity of Pearl Harbor. Did I ever claim differently?

You just raised this discussion to a new level of silliness with your Russian comment.

[Sing_Sling]

Now you have thrown Russia into the mix?

Umm, yes . . .

You just raised this discussion to a new level of silliness with your Russian comment.

Because of your ridiculous statement that. . .

, people in France would be speaking German, Great Britain would be a colony of Germany,

So, now your points are based on the non-existence of Russia as well . . .

Do you see now why your arguments don't hold water? Any of them? Why they are just throw-away lines from an old McCarthy-ist or WWII Star-Spangled Banner chest-thumping exercise?

Edited April 7, 2012 by Sing_Sling

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It can never be illegal to do an act that others are allowed to do - it is a parody of a justice system.

What planet has a consistent and effective system of international justice? Not this one. Governments can act with impunity proportional to their real power against that of any opposition.

The realpolitik level of power exercised by agencies responsible for "international law" is that of a BTS security guard against a well-trained infantry battallion.

Individuals and even corporations operating on their own may also get away with different things in different jurisdictions. Superpowers can get a way with a lot more. Welcome to the real world, and good luck bashing your head against that particular wall. . .

Only 25 years after all the people who have been murdered with illegal weapons that he sold?

Worth noting is that the judge gave him the absolute minimum in terms of jail time - indicating that the judge agreed that there was concerns with the prosecutions allegations.

Quite possible he was able to use a lot of dirty laundry as bargaining chips to receive such a lenient sentence. Maybe he'd taken proper precautions to ensure the publication of those secrets in the event of his untimely death by "accident". Now that I think about it, that also explains why he wasn't just quietly disposed of, best compromise for all concerned.

[lovetotravel]

One thing I can guarantee, none of us know all the details of this case, Viktor's business dealing, etc. I'm sure there's much more to this than meets the eye. And if he does get sent to Russia, it's to help keep the secrets he knows secret. I'm sure many in the upper levels of the Russian government were involved in his business dealing. Making millions of dollars also.

Net: was he responsible for shipping weapons to various countries? Were those weapons used to kill innocent people? If the answer is yes, he's guilty and a bad man. Congrats to any country who took him out of business.

Isn't this kinda like a drug dealer? A previous poster said he never killed anybody. A drug dealer never killed a person either, it's the drugs he sold that did this. Right??

I'm amazed you guys get all worked up about a pretty bad individual. Do some research on him, please. He got what he deserved.

[chuckd]

Now you have thrown Russia into the mix?

Umm, yes . . .

You just raised this discussion to a new level of silliness with your Russian comment.

Because of your ridiculous statement that. . .

, people in France would be speaking German, Great Britain would be a colony of Germany,

So, now your points are based on the non-existence of Russia as well . . .

Do you see now why your arguments don't hold water? Any of them? Why they are just throw-away lines from an old McCarthy-ist or WWII Star-Spangled Banner chest-thumping exercise?

I never made the statement about "the French speaking German". Check out post #55 made by "edko".

An apology from you is in order.

Your search for the truth needs some help.

Edit in: The comment is in one of my posts because I quoted your post in which you quoted edko. Does that help ease your pain a little?

Edited April 7, 2012 by chuckd

[Scott]

The discussion of World War II and speculation on would have happened is off-topic.

Please stay on topic or your posts will be deleted and warnings issued.

[Sing_Sling]

I never made the statement about "the French speaking German". Check out post #55 made by "edko".

An apology from you is in order.

Your search for the truth needs some help.

Edit in: The comment is in one of my posts because I quoted your post in which you quoted edko. Does that help ease your pain a little?

My apologies . . . and there is no pain involved in apologising when having made a mistake. My point is valid but addressed to the wrong person, sorry.

[OzMick]

"Bout’s lawyer Albert Y. Dayan ........added that the issue of Bout’s extradition to Russia is also a possibility."

He also faces charges in Russia?

Russia considers Bout as innocent, if (as stated by Bout's lawyer) the US might consider his eventual extradition to Russia, then it would no doubt be based on an extradition exchange, that is to say the US wants the return of an american victim imprisoned in Russia.

That event would be a similar to the past extradition exchanges between the two countries in order to liberate their convicted spies. Bout is no doubt hoping for this, because in Russia he would be a free man again, and so would be the american chap in the exchange return to the US.

The act you describe would more accurately be called a prisoner exchange. Quite likely you are correct, and just a case of another American perverting the English language.

The term "prisoner exchange" as you pointed out in your reply for the eventual happening in this case, is the expression of working class people.

The term "extradition" is the official & formal wording to extradite an alleged criminal from one country to another, the term "extraction exchange" refers to the interchange of victims, that is to say mutual liberation of victims back to their home country, in this case ... US & Russia.

Hmmm.......every definition I have read of "extradition" refers to transfer of an alleged criminal to face charges. Bout is not an "alleged" criminal, he has been tried, convicted and sentenced to imprisonment.

Perhaps I'm using a "working class" dictionary.

[OZEMADE]

He sold the weapons. He didn't kill the people personally.

He was indirectly responsible for the deaths of untold hundreds or more deaths.

[flying]

He was indirectly responsible for the deaths of untold hundreds or more deaths.

Should all responsible for indirect death be held accountable in your estimation?

[lovetotravel]

It would s

He was indirectly responsible for the deaths of untold hundreds or more deaths.

Should all responsible for indirect death be held accountable in your estimation?

It would prevent untold thousands of deaths every year if this was the case. Better than the situation we have now, right?

[Steely Dan]

He was indirectly responsible for the deaths of untold hundreds or more deaths.

Should all responsible for indirect death be held accountable in your estimation?

You either abdicate making any moral distinction and hold all arms dealers culpable or you apply some criteria such as sales to governments who deliberately target civilians or supply terrorist proxies who do likewise. If you take the latter approach the lack of paperwork will never be to the taste of some.

[flying]

It would s

He was indirectly responsible for the deaths of untold hundreds or more deaths.

Should all responsible for indirect death be held accountable in your estimation?

It would prevent untold thousands of deaths every year if this was the case. Better than the situation we have now, right?

I would think just about anything would be better than the system we have now.

Sadly this is not the reality....Instead a flag like Bout is waved as if a difference is being made.