I've been denied entry to Thailand - Now What ! ?

[NaMah]

I was trying to setup my banking and decided to open a HSBC US account and then open an account at a Thai bank. I plan to transfer funds into the Thai bank account as needed but keep my main balance in a US bank.

So I opened an HSBC US bank account. But it hasn't been a pleasant experience. There are very high fees for everything and they have a peculiar way of making me feel like a criminal whenever I make a transaction. I've concluded that it just isn't the right bank for me.

Can anyone recommend a US or International bank that I could use as my main account?

I'm looking to be able to easily transfer funds to a Thai bank account regularly and also like to use internet banking to pay bills in the US. A bank that has a few branches in Los Angeles is a huge plus.

Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

Na Mah

[flying]

Many seem to use Capital One On-line Banking & Bank Of America On-line Banking

I have used Cap1 & just set up BOA

Cap1 is fine only complaint being it takes 3 days to transfer out & about the same coming in.

I guess they want at least some time with your $$

I then transfer thru Bankok Bank NY to transfer to BKB Thailand

so it is seen as a domestic transfer & free of charge.

That means free to send from Cap1 or BOA ....From there it does incur a fee at BKB NY ranges from free to $20 USD & once it arrives in Thailand a fee anywhere from 200-500 THB.........Reasonable I think

If you dont already know about BKB NY fee's you may find them here

http://www.bangkokba...0USA%20Fee.aspx

Edited April 7, 2012 by flying

[patekatek]

I use Wells Fargo as my prime U.S. bank. If you can qualify for their PMA account ($25,000 in any combination of investments, checking, savings, etc.) you will not be charged for wire transfers to Thailand. If you don't have this type of account, the price is $40 for an international wire transfer. I have done hundreds of wires over the last several years and have not had a single bad experience. The money is usually available in Thailand in about 12 to 24 hours. I use Bangkok bank and I believe it charges a flat 200 baht fee on this end.

[CharlieH]

Bangkok Bank - has New York branch, online banking etc. good network of branches throughout Thailand.

Fee's are dependent on amount but max is set to 500 baht.

Edited April 8, 2012 by CharlieH

[meand]

Glad to see somebody had a good experience with Wells. That bank absolutely disgusted me, I would never even set foot in one of their parking lots again.

It may not be what you are looking for due to a lack of actual bank branches, but chales schwab high investor yield checking is the best account i have ever had. Reimberse atm fees anywhere in the world. You could use schwab to transfer to bangkok bank as people have noted.

[Javabear]

I've been using BoA with BKK Bank for years with no issues. I do an ACH transfer from BoA to BKK Bank NY, next business day is no charge. I haven't seen any fees on the BKK Bank side.

[Gary A]

I use Citibank in the US and Siam Commercial Bank here. I must say that I'm NOT a Citibank fan and I have been trying to find a new bank for several years. I have found that my main requirement is efficient and fast online money transfers. Citibank has that. I have found that other US banks are as bad or worse than Citibank. I have no desire to jump out of the skillet and into the fire.

SCM has been quite good for me. I think that the Thai bank services depend very much on the branch that you use.

[lopburi3]

There are several issues here:

1. Bangkok Bank in Thailand allows ACH transfer from any US bank at domestic rate (most are free) so only cost is the normal immediate (Bangkok Bank NY fee removed from transferred amount) and the exchange free to Baht at 1/4% in range 200-500 baht at Thai end (removed from baht total). Using this method is only about one day longer than much more costly SWIFT wire transfers. If you do not plan to use Bangkok Bank SWIFT fees will be much more important.

2. If wanting to do above look for a no fee ACH transfer ability from US bank and online ability to do

3. Reimbursement of fees may be a consideration for travelers but for those living in Thailand is a non issue for most as we have local account for ATM access to funds transferred in larger amounts by SWIFT or ACH.

4. So I would look for US bank with least fees and ability to do what you need (pay the bills, transfer funds, and if you expect to receive checks on-line clearing might be good if not at added cost (as you will likely not use that often)). I use mail for the few checks I have to deposit.

[Pib]

I've been using BoA with BKK Bank for years with no issues. I do an ACH transfer from BoA to BKK Bank NY, next business day is no charge. I haven't seen any fees on the BKK Bank side.

Oh there are BOA and BKK Bank fees.

Below is a cut and paste I just did of the BoA fees which show when I access my BoA account. $3 is the minimum fee for a 3 day transfer; $25 for a next business day transfer. I used to use BoA a lot before, still have an account (but really need to close it), but have since switched to other U.S. banks like Schwab and State Farm for the great majority of my bank funds due to low fees (like no ACH fees) and better products/service....like no foreign transaction fee debit cards which also reimburse ATM fees if required.

Then as the funds flow through the BKK Bank New York branch on there way to your in-Thailand branch they slice off a fee usually in the $5 to $10 range. See this Link for specifics.

And then when the funds arrive your in-Thailand BKK Bank branch their is currency receipt/conversion fee of 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) fee. That info is also shown in above link along at other places on the Bangkok Bank web page.

Now with above being said, it's still a significantly cheaper way to do a transfer compared to a SWIFT/wire transfer because SWIFT fees can be pricey...in the $20 to $60 range...usually around $40 average...and then you still get hit with the currency receipt/conversion fee at the in-Thailand BKK Bank branch (but all Thai banks charge this recept/conversion fee even if the funds arrive in baht). Now if you allowed BoA to convert to baht before sending then maybe they don't charge a sending fee but unfortunately they hit you with an approx 4% lower exchange rate. Then again, maybe you have a special/high dollar BoA account I'm not aware of where they have a different fee structure.

To the OP: probably the three major banking irritants expats experienced when moving to Thailand is one day they figure out: (1) the home country Sending back transfer fees add can up to to real money...like maybe several percent per transfer...money that should stay in your pocket versus going to home country bank profits; (2) the debit/ATM card issued by your home country bank applies a foreign transaction fee of several percent and don't reimburse ATM fees...once again less money in your pocket and more profits for your home country bank; and (3) it very, very hard to get a Thai credit card unless you have a Work Permit, Thai credit cards offer little to no consumer protection, and you find out your home country bank credit card charges a foreign transaction fee of several percent...once agian money going to the wrong pocket. With this being said, there are U.S. banks that do not charge funds transfer fees for normal transfers (i.e., you can wait 2 to 3 days for the money to arrive versus doing a next business day transfer) such as Schwab, Cap One, State Farm, USAA...many of them, banks that provide no foreign transaction fee debit/ATM cards (Schwab, State Farm, Cap One, etc), and banks that provide no foriegn transaction fee credit cards (like Cap One, PenFed, etc). And it's much, much easier to open a new bank or credit card account while you still have a residence in the U.S....so open a "more better" bank/credit card account before you make the move to Thailand. From a fee perspective HSBC definitely don't fall into the low fee category of banks. Cheers.

[Ernest63]

Bangkok Bank - has New York branch, online banking etc

Edited April 8, 2012 by Ernest63

[lopburi3]

AFAIK Bangkok Bank New York has no opening of personal accounts there. It is used for direct transfer to account numbers in Thailand using the US ACH transfer system but other than that is of no use for US personal accounts.

[Pib]

AFAIK Bangkok Bank New York has no opening of personal accounts there. It is used for direct transfer to account numbers in Thailand using the US ACH transfer system but other than that is of no use for US personal accounts.

Yeap, that's my understanding; it's more of a commerical banking setup vs retail banking....goes for business from big businesses versus joe off the street business. As most folks know who have Bangkok Bank accounts that NY branch provides that all important ABA routing number which permits free/cheap ACH transfers.

[CaptHaddock]

USAA Federal Savings Bank provides free ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank, which does make a charge to receive them. The resulting cost are about as low as you can get them. USAA provides excellent service, such as its bill pay service. Since their customer base is military, they don't blanche at US expats.

[NaMah]

All of the responses are appreciated. I considered them all and also a couple of PMs I received.

I'm closing my HSBC US account and opening a Schwab checking and brokerage account and a Bangkok Bank personal checking account. I'll be parking some money in the BKK account for a few months before I move to the LOS to satisfy the retirement visa financial requirement instead of validating my monthly pension income.

Thanks again for all of the help. I'm really feeling good about establishing a low fee setup that I can live with for the long term.

Edited April 9, 2012 by NaMah

[djvolak]

I've been using BoA with BKK Bank for years with no issues. I do an ACH transfer from BoA to BKK Bank NY, next business day is no charge. I haven't seen any fees on the BKK Bank side.

Oh there are BOA and BKK Bank fees.

Below is a cut and paste I just did of the BoA fees which show when I access my BoA account. $3 is the minimum fee for a 3 day transfer; $25 for a next business day transfer. I used to use BoA a lot before, still have an account (but really need to close it), but have since switched to other U.S. banks like Schwab and State Farm for the great majority of my bank funds due to low fees (like no ACH fees) and better products/service....like no foreign transaction fee debit cards which also reimburse ATM fees if required.

Then as the funds flow through the BKK Bank New York branch on there way to your in-Thailand branch they slice off a fee usually in the $5 to $10 range. See this Link for specifics.

And then when the funds arrive your in-Thailand BKK Bank branch their is currency receipt/conversion fee of 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) fee. That info is also shown in above link along at other places on the Bangkok Bank web page.

Now with above being said, it's still a significantly cheaper way to do a transfer compared to a SWIFT/wire transfer because SWIFT fees can be pricey...in the $20 to $60 range...usually around $40 average...and then you still get hit with the currency receipt/conversion fee at the in-Thailand BKK Bank branch (but all Thai banks charge this recept/conversion fee even if the funds arrive in baht). Now if you allowed BoA to convert to baht before sending then maybe they don't charge a sending fee but unfortunately they hit you with an approx 4% lower exchange rate. Then again, maybe you have a special/high dollar BoA account I'm not aware of where they have a different fee structure.

To the OP: probably the three major banking irritants expats experienced when moving to Thailand is one day they figure out: (1) the home country Sending back transfer fees add can up to to real money...like maybe several percent per transfer...money that should stay in your pocket versus going to home country bank profits; (2) the debit/ATM card issued by your home country bank applies a foreign transaction fee of several percent and don't reimburse ATM fees...once again less money in your pocket and more profits for your home country bank; and (3) it very, very hard to get a Thai credit card unless you have a Work Permit, Thai credit cards offer little to no consumer protection, and you find out your home country bank credit card charges a foreign transaction fee of several percent...once agian money going to the wrong pocket. With this being said, there are U.S. banks that do not charge funds transfer fees for normal transfers (i.e., you can wait 2 to 3 days for the money to arrive versus doing a next business day transfer) such as Schwab, Cap One, State Farm, USAA...many of them, banks that provide no foreign transaction fee debit/ATM cards (Schwab, State Farm, Cap One, etc), and banks that provide no foriegn transaction fee credit cards (like Cap One, PenFed, etc). And it's much, much easier to open a new bank or credit card account while you still have a residence in the U.S....so open a "more better" bank/credit card account before you make the move to Thailand. From a fee perspective HSBC definitely don't fall into the low fee category of banks. Cheers.

Thanks for the post. I am with USAA now but you have given me the back up plans there in your post. Much appreciated.

[Pib]

I'm with USAA also...I use them as one of my core accounts and all my BillPay, but I don't use their debit or credit cards since they charge a foreign transaction fee; use other banks for the debit and credit cards....cards which do not provide any foreign transaction fee and reimburse ATM fees if required. Many times a person needs to have several bank accounts to get the best "overall" deal and "cover all the bases"...and then you may want to open few additional accounts as backup, like for backup no foreign transaction fee debit/credit cards, to have a backup if your primary bank(s) change policies. But one thing for sure, I no longer get "fee-frustration" when transferring money or using my debit or credit cards....plus I'm covered under U.S. Consumer Protection Laws vs the little to non-existent Thai Consumer Protection Laws...I think the financial protection laws Thailand has were really written to protect the banks and not the customer. Cheers.

[Pib]

All of the responses are appreciated. I considered them all and also a couple of PMs I received.

I'm closing my HSBC US account and opening a Schwab checking and brokerage account and a Bangkok Bank personal checking account. I'll be parking some money in the BKK account for a few months before I move to the LOS to satisfy the retirement visa financial requirement instead of validating my monthly pension income.

Thanks again for all of the help. I'm really feeling good about establishing a low fee setup that I can live with for the long term.

Good deal...and you'll improve your quality of life/probably live longer because you'll will have a lot less banking headaches and fee-frustration...plus keeping more of your money in your pocket versus giving it to the bank is always a good thing IMHO.

[TongueThaied]

Use Charles Schwab and you'll never look back. It is one of the very few companies that I will recommend. You will not regret it. Ask anyone on here about CS. It is one company I have never heard anything about except kudos.

[flying]

Do you folks with Charles Schwab use their global site or US site?

Looking at their US site I see to open a savings/ATM account you need a U.S. permanent resident address

Is just a mailing address sufficient for those living in Thailand or do you need to do as they suggest...

If you are not a U.S. resident, visit our Global site

Thanks

Edited April 10, 2012 by flying

[lovetotravel]

Use Charles Schwab and you'll never look back. It is one of the very few companies that I will recommend. You will not regret it. Ask anyone on here about CS. It is one company I have never heard anything about except kudos.

What about fees? Are there any monthly fees for having a checking/brokerage account? I use to have a Schwab account, but went with USAA as there are no fees for checking/savings/etc. I don't do much with stocks, so that part doesn't really interest me.

I appreciate your comments on this.

[lopburi3]

I'm with USAA also...I use them as one of my core accounts and all my BillPay, but I don't use their debit or credit cards since they charge a foreign transaction fee;

True but it is really one of the lower fee banks at only 1% (which until this year had a .5% refund) so debit card can be used in emergency without too much loss (as even ACH transfers encounter some fees so loss will be less than 1%).

[meand]

Do you folks with Charles Schwab use their global site or US site?

Looking at their US site I see to open a savings/ATM account you need a U.S. permanent resident address

Is just a mailing address sufficient for those living in Thailand or do you need to do as they suggest...

If you are not a U.S. resident, visit our Global site

Thanks

I use the US based site. If I had to guess, the global site is for investors only, I think you need to be a US resident with an address to get the "good" checking account (I use my mothers address, as I live in Thailand).Since most of the bank interactions are done through the mail initially, you will need to have access to the mail from the address you use somehow.

There are NO fees on these investor checking accounts, and they don't pressure you to invest in the slightest and there is no need to invest. If it all sounds too good to be true, that is because it is. The way I figure it they can get away with using many of these perks to attract customers because they make a lot of money off of people investing (maybe like getting free drinks in Las Vegas) and they have no actual bank branches (cut down on costs this way), everything is done via mail/calling/online.

Edited April 10, 2012 by meand

[flying]

I use the US based site. If I had to guess, the global site is for investors only, I think you need to be a US resident with an address to get the "good" checking account (I use my mothers address, as I live in Thailand).Since most of the bank interactions are done through the mail initially, you will need to have access to the mail from the address you use somehow.

There are NO fees on these investor checking accounts, and they don't pressure you to invest in the slightest and there is no need to invest. If it all sounds too good to be true, that is because it is. The way I figure it they can get away with using many of these perks to attract customers because they make a lot of money off of people investing (maybe like getting free drinks in Las Vegas) and they have no actual bank branches (cut down on costs this way), everything is done via mail/calling/online.

Thanks good to know

I am here in the US till the end of next month so I might set it up just in case.

Also I will maintain an address here for my other charge cards etc so should not be a problem

So when you say no fee's...I have read they have no ATM fees & I believe no monthly fees.

But do they also not charge for domestic ACH transfers such as Bangkok Bank NY?

Thanks

[Pib]

Use Charles Schwab and you'll never look back. It is one of the very few companies that I will recommend. You will not regret it. Ask anyone on here about CS. It is one company I have never heard anything about except kudos.

What about fees? Are there any monthly fees for having a checking/brokerage account? I use to have a Schwab account, but went with USAA as there are no fees for checking/savings/etc. I don't do much with stocks, so that part doesn't really interest me.

I appreciate your comments on this.

I have a Scbwab brokerage, savings and checking account. No minumum balances required; no monthly fees. If you open an account I recommend you open all three which makes money movement front/to/around the accounts a little easier due to the way some of their ACH external bank transfers links must "initially" be setup/used. In fact, I think the brokerage and checking account opening is done on the same form/a combo form and the savings account can be opened using a second form. The checking account gets you the no foreign transaction fee Visa debt card and the saving account gets you a higher interest rate. Sign-up for the account(s) will be a little different depending on whether you can walk into a Schwab office or do it online....also whether you are opening an individual or joint account. In my case when opening the joint account from Thailand using my U.S. residence I had to mail in the account application form. Now if I had been opening a "individual" account I think I could have done it all online.

Would also recommend you check out State Farm Bank (I know you may think insurance but they do a lot of things) as they provide a no foreign transaction fee Visa debit card ($1K per day withdrawal limit just like he Schwab Visa debit card) and pay higher interest on their accounts than Schwab (or at least they did the last time I checked by accounts for the interest rates being paid). Since State Farm pays higher interest, provides a no foreign transaction fee Visa debit card, and ACH transfer link setup can all be done online (with Schwab some of that initially has to be done with mailed paperwork like on the Savings account if I remember right), State Farm is 1 of 2 banks that I call my core banks since the great, great majority of my banking activity occurs through them. You can also scan and cash a check online with State Farm which is immediately posted to your account...you can do this with USAA also...this capability comes in real handy when you get those occasional checks like medical reimbursement checks, rebate checks, or whatever kind of checks....yeap, comes in real handy.

In closing, getting a bank account that provides a no foriegn fee debit card can also turn you days of using ACH/SWIFT transfers to your Thai bank account along with the assoicated fees and 1 to X business days wait time a thing of the past, except maybe for those occassionals where you need to transfer some BIG money within a day or two. For me, I walk up to a AEON ATM in my nearby Lotus Mall, withdraw say 30,000 baht which is approx $1,000 which is my debit card limit per day (no AEON ATM fee...but even it did charge a feeSchwab/State Farm will reimburse that fee), take about 30 steps with that handful of cash around the corner in the mall to the Bangkok Bank outlet, and deposit the money into my Bangkok Bank account using the Cash Deposit Machine....then I have just recharged my Bangkok Bank account to use my Bangkok Bank internet banking and Be1st debit card. It's not uncommon for me to get this all done within five minutes. And sometimes I use both my Schwab and State Farm cards to pull 60,000 baht from that AEON ATM and then deposit in the Bangkok Bank Cash Deposit Machine. And heck, if I brought along my Bangkok Bank passbook I can then move over the passbook update machine, slide my passbook in, and it updates the passbook to show the deposit I just made. And if I have the time and see a very pretty Bangkok Bank clerk, then I just may want to not use the cash deposit machine and instead do a manual deposit with the clerk. Yeap, using a no foreign transaction fee debit card can really make ACH/SWIFT money transfer a thing of the past for your day-to-day living expenses in Thailand.

[Pib]

But do they also not charge for domestic ACH transfers such as Bangkok Bank NY?

Thanks

There are no Sending bank (i.e., Schwab) ACH transfer fees; however, even when your sending bank has no ACH sending fee (regardless of the bank...Schwab, CapOne, USAA, State Farm, whatever bank) you are still charged a small fee "by Bangkok Bank New York" if routing the money through the NY branch using their ABA routing number. Based on the amounts most people probably transfer that going to be either $5 (up to $2K) or $10 (over $2K). Below image shows the various possible fees depending on the amount sent.

[flying]

But do they also not charge for domestic ACH transfers such as Bangkok Bank NY?

Thanks

There are no Sending bank (i.e., Schwab) ACH transfer fees; however, even when your sending bank has no ACH sending fee (regardless of the bank...Schwab, CapOne, USAA, State Farm, whatever bank) you are still charged a small fee "by Bangkok Bank New York" if routing the money through the NY branch using their ABA routing number. Based on the amounts most people probably transfer that going to be either $5 (up to $2K) or $10 (over $2K). Below image shows the various possible fees depending on the amount sent.

Yes thanks Pib I know about the BKB fees but for now my Credit Union still charges me another $25 to send to BKB

I do like that Capital One does not but they take a total of 6 days to transfer....3 in from my credit union & 3 out to BKB NY

Schwab sounds better

[Pib]

Yeap, some banks/credit unions/financial companies still charge a Sending fee (transmit your money through the internet pipe) even if they are using the ACH system to transmit the money. I use to be with a credit union that did the same thing...but they charged $40 fee...and they used the ACH system...a SWIFT transfer was even more. What a cash cow transfer of money is to banks/credit unions....I prefer banks/credit unions that don't use me like a fee cash cow....but there a still plenty of cash cows walking around and banks/credit unions know this, lure them into their barn, and milk...and remilk those cows. Preaching to the choir I know.

Cheers,

Pib

(Ex Fee Cash Cow for Banks)

Edited April 10, 2012 by Pib

[JimGant]

Doing the math on all of this can be an eye opener.

First off, the MasterCard/Cirrus network has a less favorable FX rate than Visa/PLUS, at least for the US dollar/baht pairing. I ran the numbers over two months last summer, and, on average, Visa was 8 satang better than the buying TT rate (I used BOT), and MC was 9 satang worse! A 17 satang spread (again, on average).

The two sites for finding these daily rates are:

https://www.masterca...sion/index.html

http://usa.visa.com/...ex_rates_us.jsp

Now, MC doesn't decide its daily rate until 12-13 hours after Visa (Visa's changeover is around noon Thai time). So, if the dollar is appreciating against the baht, MC's rate will catch more of this appreciation in a same-day comparison (or vice versa). Check-out April 4th for both sites -- only a 2 satang spread (but with MC still worse), as the dollar headed north (you need to do the reciprocal for the Visa site number). Now, look at April 10th, with the dollar now heading south. A 20 satang spread between Visa and MC. And, Bangkok Banks's buying TT rate for April 10th is 30.82 -- 8 baht off Visa's rate, reflecting (coincidentally) the two month average that showed Visa consistently ahead of the TT (and MC) rate(s).

And the sites mentioned above are right-on their published numbers -- to the second decimal place (at least when I took several samples). I did most of my shopping and ATM draws around 1:00 PM, by which time Visa had posted its number for that day. And since ATM pulls are near real time, a 5 April ATM pull with my Visa Debit/ATM card was reflected in their 5 April website posting. But for MC, a 1:00 PM pull on 5 April would be reflected in their 4 April posting. (This gets pushed-out for POS signature transactions, where the posting is usually a day later -- thus a 5 April shopping number would not normally be reflected until Visa's 6 April posting.)

Another crunch of numbers, using 31 baht to the dollar as the Bangkok Bank buying TT number, shows how a no-fee Visa Debit/ATM card (or PLUS ATM card) can't be beat -- as long as you escape the 150 baht ATM fee.

Say you send via ACH, thru BB NY, to your BB account in Thailand, $20,000 (not a problem -- at least from my USAA account, as they upped my daily ceiling -- and no ACH fees). After $10 BB NY front fee, 500 baht back fee, you end up with 619,190 baht. Now if I used my Schwab Visa Debit/ATM card, I could get 621,600 baht with my $20,000, if I get 31.08 baht per dollar (assuming the 8 satang Visa advantage). A $78 savings per $20k -- or $156 per year, assuming I send two 20k chunks annually (this moves to $282 if you ACH 8 chunks of $5k each).

But, the moving FX rate can -- and does -- turn all of this on its head. Plus, if Schwab ever ditched their 150 baht refund, or passed-on the Visa network 1% fee, ACH would be a no-brainer (and Aeon is not a player, since I only stick my plastic in my local bank, in case of mechanical errors). However, I did get a Schwab card last year, first plastic I've gotten in years. The numbers spoke......

.....just as they do about MasterCard. Even with ATM reimbursement, and no fees -- you'd be better off ACHing $10k chunks, rather than using MC in the ATM machine, with its 9 satang penalty.

[Pib]

And a very nice intanglible benefit of using a no foreign transaction fee debit card to get money is you have your money a few seconds after you slide your card into the ATM; that sure beats the time spent initiating the transfer via internet/phone/fax and then waiting 1 to X days for the money to arrive/post to your account.

[lopburi3]

Suspect that is of little benefit to most of us who use local accounts for local expense as we keep such accounts high enough to more than cover the time period for transfers. Depending on an ATM to make contact was not a pleasant experience in my memory - would much rather have it locally available with multi options to obtain.