I Want To Move To Chiang Mai

[Beetlejuice]

Bettlejuice.. I have to stick up for Chiang Mai as someone who has been there for many months of a few years... it's full of excitment for any age I would say. The older crowd is much more friendly and happy then the older crowd where I live, they huddle in their little houses with their woodstoves have the year... I would say there is many fun places in Canada, Montreal, Nelson BC..

I don't find Chiang Mai quiet by any means ! Its noisy and busy, not to mention getting out of town, there is music everywhere...

But I see what your saying, it can wear off ? Its can become routine ?

The most boring parts of my life was when I tried to move to New York and found out that you need way more money then I could ever make just to go out fora few drinks once a week..

From my research, if you have an online biz, and you are working with customers out of country and just carrying on you do not need to have a work permit, at all as you aren't working with a Thai company or anything like that.

But I might be wrong, thus why I am asking.. but boring to me is say Vancouver where there is nothing to do in the whole city most of the time it feels like and nobody ever smiles to a stranger on the street.. they just banned bongos in the city of vancouver for christ sake !

A little while ago, farangs of no wealth that hoped to live in Thailand for the long term would seek some sorts of teaching jobs in order to financially sustain their cost of living in Thailand. Now it appears that the new trend is working online and many believe that they have found a loophole within the laws of Thailand to get around paying taxes or having to endure going via the Thai employment and running a business acts for foreigners working here, maybe because they could not qualify for the terms and conditions imposed by Thai Immigration.

If you become resident in Thailand and your business is based abroad but the income from that said business is being brought over to Thailand as your earnings or income and this is being conducted from within Thailand, than technically you are working in Thailand and are therefore legally obliged to register the fact with the authorities.

As for living in Chiang Mai or any other part of Thailand on a more permanent basis, than you must decide this at your own discretion, keeping in mind that in Thailand, if you fall into the deep do dars, no one is going to pull you out. So my advice is, to ensure that you plan well and fully understand what you are undertaking.

As you have already said, you have visited Chiang Mai several times in the past and if you believe the grass is greener in Thailand than in Canada and you can hack it here, than I wish you all success with your venture and although what I say may appear to be a bit harsh, even if you were one of my close family or friends, I would still say the same. So this is nothing personal but only common sense.

[driedmango]

Thanks beetlejiuce, I wasn't trying to sound snarky, the grass is very green where I live, its a rainforest after all... its pretty easy to make money and live a comforatable life, but it is cold and wet most of the year with no sunsunshine and just eating out after dark can be depressing, at least where I live.. I am also considering Montreal vs Chiang Mai... as someone said I will most likely not be settling down forever, but who knows.

I have to admit though, Chiang Mai seems like heaven to many people, A hotel room for instance in Vancouver is always over $100, a good meal $30 min... Beers are now getting in the $7.50 range some places... many unemployed people, junkies everywhere, HIV, panhandlers.. different set of problems in Vancouver, did I mention Vancouver city council just banned bagpipes and bongos in public ?

As far as having an online retail shop, where you don't ship anything from Thailand, don't sell to Thailand, don't make anything in Thailand, don't hire a Thai to work on it, basicly selling in your country to your home country, as far as I could find out it's 100% legit, imagine if they told buisness people of the world they couldn't check their email while in Thailand and write their customers back ?

But I understand the whipping local stuff on ebay thing is illegal, I am not talk about that.

Thanks very much for your input, I don't like rose colored glasses either, tell it as you feel.

[jamesbrock]

If you are a young guy and think Canada’s boring, just wait until you’ve had a taste of Chiang Mai, then you’re know what the word boring really means.

Chiang Mai is all right, there is a lot to be said for it, but it seems to be prefered by the elderly, who prefer quite and isolation. It is full of grumpy old farangs that may give you an acknowledging grunt if passing in the street and as for the social scene, well, the less said about that the better. There are a few young dudes here, but most of them are working and don`t socialise much or pre-occupied with themselves.

For someone of your age who has no family or close friends already here, I don’t recommend Chiang Mai as the place to take your hat off and settle down, otherwise you could find yourself alone and friendless because many of the ex-pats here are knocking on in years, not very socialable and prefer to stay in their own little clique.

Wow, that's some scornful cynicism right there. I wonder if that's the result of experiencing the pitfalls above, or the over way around?

Please don`t take my word for it, I suggest that you do some online research on the Chiang Mai scene and then decide for yourself. But I seriously advise that you think carefully before making the big move here. Being on holiday is one thing, but actually living here is another matter.

Isn't this online research? Where better to research moving to a place than in a forum occupied by people already living in said place? Some static website with one person's views? God forbid, he may end up on a site written by a jaded expat who hates the place!

At least I agree with your last sentence (although not the sentiment): actually living here is another matter - it's MUCH better than being on holiday!

A little while ago, farangs of no wealth that hoped to live in Thailand for the long term would seek some sorts of teaching jobs in order to financially sustain their cost of living in Thailand. Now it appears that the new trend is working online and many believe that they have found a loophole within the laws of Thailand to get around paying taxes or having to endure going via the Thai employment and running a business acts for foreigners working here, maybe because they could not qualify for the terms and conditions imposed by Thai Immigration.

All of whom are positively contributing to Thailand's economy. Or does that not matter, because they may be somehow bending the rules in a country where corruption by, and briery of public officials has become the accepted norm? It's ok to pay tea money to a police officer to avoid a harsher penalty for an offence, but it's not ok to use a loophole to live comfortably in Thailand?

As for living in Chiang Mai or any other part of Thailand on a more permanent basis, than you must decide this at your own discretion, keeping in mind that in Thailand, if you fall into the deep do dars, no one is going to pull you out. So my advice is, to ensure that you plan well and fully understand what you are undertaking.

That may be your experience, but most likely not because people don't care about others...

I have been in Thailand seven months; nearly three weeks ago I had an horrific motorcycle accident, and have been confined to a wheelchair since. The outpouring of support that I have received, on the day of the accident, and every day since, has been amazing. And this is from both farangs and Thais. People that I thought were mere acquaintances have repeatedly gone out of their way to offer any type of support or assistance I may need, and I've needed a lot! Sure, I have suffered the usual criminal incompetence of the public hospital, the expected extortion during the 'assisted negotiation' at the police station, and the indifference of a few taxi drivers, but on the whole, it has been a real eye opening, and deeply humbling experience.

Instead of blaming the expats in Chiang Mai for not accepting you or engaging with you, and blaming everyone for their neglect and indifference when you are in "the deep do dars", you should probably take a look at yourself. I know I wouldn't want to hang out with you.

So, driedmango, you've had the full spectrum of advice here. Again, I say come, come now. Like many others, I wish I'd come a decade earlier (I'm 41), so come, travel around and check out the country, stay until you no longer enjoy it, then move on. There are some other recent threads in the CM forum about people moving to CM, and a few of them have spoken about catching up for a beer or such; check them out, it would be good.

Edited April 13, 2012 by jamesbrock

[hellodolly]

Great post. Jamesbrock

Yes if you find yourself incapacitated people here are far more helpful. For the life of me I can not figure out why Beetlejuice with his attitude stays here. I am 70 years old and if I felt that way I would be out of here like a shot.

The one word of caution I would give you is you might find yourself short of money as has been mentioned and explained here before. But as elektrified said it might be just a stepping stone. But as you know from previous experience it can be a very enjoyable one. You don't have to stay here until it looks like Beetlejuice see's it.

Nelson and Kaslo are both very beautiful city's but they defiantly do not get enough sun for my liking and the rain is not as mild as we get it here.

[Gladiator]

Bettlejuice.. I have to stick up for Chiang Mai as someone who has been there for many months of a few years... it's full of excitment for any age I would say. The older crowd is much more friendly and happy then the older crowd where I live, they huddle in their little houses with their woodstoves have the year... I would say there is many fun places in Canada, Montreal, Nelson BC..

I don't find Chiang Mai quiet by any means ! Its noisy and busy, not to mention getting out of town, there is music everywhere...

But I see what your saying, it can wear off ? Its can become routine ?

The most boring parts of my life was when I tried to move to New York and found out that you need way more money then I could ever make just to go out fora few drinks once a week..

From my research, if you have an online biz, and you are working with customers out of country and just carrying on you do not need to have a work permit, at all as you aren't working with a Thai company or anything like that.

But I might be wrong, thus why I am asking.. but boring to me is say Vancouver where there is nothing to do in the whole city most of the time it feels like and nobody ever smiles to a stranger on the street.. they just banned bongos in the city of vancouver for christ sake !

Regarding working an on-line business with a Non-Thai Client base - here is another slant on it:

I was at the meeting and admittedly the rationale came from an officer of the Labour Department and many folk came away still thinking that it was a grey area. However I have seen another topic on TV (sorry I have searched high and low and cannot not find it) regarding doing legal work on line for a non-Thai client base and that seemed to support the case made by the Labour Department.

[jamesbrock]

Great post. Jamesbrock

Yes if you find yourself incapacitated people here are far more helpful. For the life of me I can not figure out why Beetlejuice with his attitude stays here. I am 70 years old and if I felt that way I would be out of here like a shot.

The one word of caution I would give you is you might find yourself short of money as has been mentioned and explained here before. But as elektrified said it might be just a stepping stone. But as you know from previous experience it can be a very enjoyable one. You don't have to stay here until it looks like Beetlejuice see's it.

Nelson and Kaslo are both very beautiful city's but they defiantly do not get enough sun for my liking and the rain is not as mild as we get it here.

Thanks hellodolly; yes, it does sort of fit my theory: stay somewhere until you no longer like it, and then find somewhere else...

Regarding working an on-line business with a Non-Thai Client base - here is another slant on it:

http://www.thaivisa....line%20business

I was at the meeting and admittedly the rationale came from an officer of the Labour Department and many folk came away still thinking that it was a grey area. However I have seen another topic on TV (sorry I have searched high and low and cannot not find it) regarding doing legal work on line for a non-Thai client base and that seemed to support the case made by the Labour Department.

Very interesting link. Like almost any law, rule, or regulation in Thailand - it is such a grey area, and the answer to your particular situation depends entirely on who you speak to, their particular level of intelligence, training and job satisfaction, and their particular mood on the particular day you speak to them. As such, if I were operating an online business of any type, I would use the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. (Don't mistake my opinion with a recommendation, as I would never recommend anyone break a law.)

[NancyL]

I was at the meeting referenced in the previous couple postings and since then the official from the labor dept has "walked back" his statement that it's OK to work on-line for foreign clients from your Thai residence without a work permit.

Realistically, there a just a couple ways you'd get in trouble doing this. One is if you are marketing Thai-sourced products on-line or otherwise talking on-line about how you operate your business out of Thailand. The second way is if someone complains. The police have to investigate every complaint and a well-connected jealous ex-girlfriend, fired maid, neighbor, business associate, competitor, could cause them to actually look into your case seriously. Could result in fines, confiscation of your computer & files, even deportation. At a minimum, it would create a hassle

Edited April 13, 2012 by NancyL

[udonguy]

Been here over 20 years. Life's great especially the quality of life. I would advise not to sit around though. Do something ANYTHING that makes you happy and keeps you busy and off the streets out of the bars. It's a sliding slope if you have nothing to do. Think of a small kind of business that you could do with friends back in Canada or whatever. It's not so much the money but a reason to get up in the morning and have something to work on. Then there's all sorts of other projects from HIV to orphans and poor hill tribes. Make your life worthwhile and add something to the community. As in every country in the world there are nice people and back stabbers. If you buy property or invest get proper legal advice. There are many more ways to do it than to put everything in a GF/BF s name. The much asked question in this matter is: "But don't you trust me?". Turn it around and say "But don't you trust ME"?

be careful of the visa regs as I think it's generally accepted that ANY work, online or not, you need a work permit (but are unlikely to get caught).

Edited April 15, 2012 by udonguy

[udonguy]

I was at the meeting referenced in the previous couple postings and since then the official from the labor dept has "walked back" his statement that it's OK to work on-line for foreign clients from your Thai residence without a work permit.

Realistically, there a just a couple ways you'd get in trouble doing this. One is if you are marketing Thai-sourced products on-line or otherwise talking on-line about how you operate your business out of Thailand. The second way is if someone complains. The police have to investigate every complaint and a well-connected jealous ex-girlfriend, fired maid, neighbor, business associate, competitor, could cause them to actually look into your case seriously. Could result in fines, confiscation of your computer & files, even deportation. At a minimum, it would create a hassle

exactly - not worth it - but 1000s of farang do take the risk 'hoping' they don't get caught through one of the people Nancy describes

[driedmango]

well, if I find out that its not ok to do my web buisness I would not do it in thialand and instead try to get a teaching job with visa. Thanks

[udonguy]

well, if I find out that its not ok to do my web buisness I would not do it in thialand and instead try to get a teaching job with visa. Thanks

its not ok for sure - sorry - its working and its strictly not allowed on a tourist visa (or O visa etc.) - good luck anyway

[Boifromoz]

Expats seem to be a bit weird the longer they have been in Thailand, I recomend hanging around tourists for a bit of fun and energy, although you are right they will leave.. dont cut off ur life in canada cause u could find u wanna go back sooner rather than later!

[udonguy]

I do know of some farang who live on 15,000 a month but the average seems to be 30,000/40,000

50,000 means living very comfortably - teachers get about 25,000/30,000 (with degree/TEFL and working permit) sometimes more if you are lucky

[PlanetX]

I do know of some farang who live on 15,000 a month but the average seems to be 30,000/40,000

50,000 means living very comfortably - teachers get about 25,000/30,000 (with degree/TEFL and working permit) sometimes more if you are lucky

Lucky or qualified

[WinnieTheKhwai]

50,000 means living very comfortably

As long as you don't have kids.

And don't mind scooting about on a Honda Click.

And preferably only do disposable pay-as-you-go relationships.

And don't fly home every year.

[Ok you could probably address one of those above on 50K, but not all of them.]

Edited April 26, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[jamesbrock]

50,000 per month can be very comfortable.

If you don't want kids.

And you prefer the convenience and low running costs of a scooter.

And you have a long-term relationship with a self-sufficient woman.

And don't feel the need to visit your home-country every year.

Easy.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Hey, there's an echo..

[udonguy]

50,000 means living very comfortably

As long as you don't have kids.

And don't mind scooting about on a Honda Click.

And preferably only do disposable pay-as-you-go relationships.

And don't fly home every year.

[Ok you could probably address one of those above on 50K, but not all of them.]

well I was basing it on the OP situation - yes no kids, don't go home yearly but not sure about the Click