Uk Citizens - Non-Resident Or Not?

[Soutpeel]

I think in general terms Non - resident means you no longer have a UK address and have stayed more than 6 months continuously outside the UK.

That's completely incorrect. If you are in the UK over 90 days you will definitely be resident if you are a UK citizen. If you are there less than 90 days you can also still be resident there. Your intention counts a lot. You can't be non-resident if you go away for a few years with the intention of returning at a later date. The rules can get very complex. HMRC has won cases where people have been in the UK for less than 90 days each year and have claimed non-resident status. While they lived abroad they still at a home in the UK, so were still resident here. You can in fact be resident for tax purposes in more than one country.

Not quite, the rules say average of 90 days over a 3 year period

That's the general rule, but HMRC has won cases where people were in the UK for under 90 days for a number of years. The reason being that they still had home, family, bank accounts, etc in the UK. The 90-day rule cab therefore be overridden by other considerations.

See my post #24

[w11guy]

Different agencies/organisation have different views as to what constituted residency. I spend 9 months here a year, changed my bank last year and told them all the details of UK address, in THailand 9 months so I needed a card for living expenses and I have a debit card.

I would always try and keep UK residency and most fianaces in the UK, no one knows what the future holds, no point in burning bridges.

If you are here for more than 3 months you can open a local account at a bank and get a Thai credit card if you wish

For travel insurance purposes you are required to be have been a UK resident for the previous 90 days before it commences, dont think because you were born in the UK and have a UK address is sufficient it is not, always exactly what they means by residency, assume nothing it could come back to haunt you.

By becoming non-resident you don't burn any bridges. You can still move back to the UK and become resident again.

[w11guy]

I told HMRC when I was leaving permanently, to live out here, and they send me a letter accepting that I became non-resident on the day-after-departure. It took a few years until they finally agreed that I didn't need to complete annual-returns anymore.

I sold my property & car, moved my banking to an offshore (Jersey) branch of the same bank, and closed my UK-accounts, and invested our joint-savings offshore, so that any income arises offshore of both the UK and Thailand.

I believe that loosing my UK-Domicile may take decades, and HMRC seem reluctant, to tell me just what I must do to actually achieve this, escaping Inheritance-Tax when I die may therefore be problematical. I believe that it helps that I now have a Thai-Will, and wish to be cremated in Thailand, not returned to be buried in the UK.

Become a citizen of another country and getting a passport may help. If you live in Thailand and still travel using a British passport then that suggests that you still see yourself as British, so that would lead HMRC to count you as UK domiciled. I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that, but it's just another thing to suggest that someone sees they real 'home' as the UK.

[Soutpeel]

I told HMRC when I was leaving permanently, to live out here, and they send me a letter accepting that I became non-resident on the day-after-departure. It took a few years until they finally agreed that I didn't need to complete annual-returns anymore.

I sold my property & car, moved my banking to an offshore (Jersey) branch of the same bank, and closed my UK-accounts, and invested our joint-savings offshore, so that any income arises offshore of both the UK and Thailand.

I believe that loosing my UK-Domicile may take decades, and HMRC seem reluctant, to tell me just what I must do to actually achieve this, escaping Inheritance-Tax when I die may therefore be problematical. I believe that it helps that I now have a Thai-Will, and wish to be cremated in Thailand, not returned to be buried in the UK.

Become a citizen of another country and getting a passport may help. If you live in Thailand and still travel using a British passport then that suggests that you still see yourself as British, so that would lead HMRC to count you as UK domiciled. I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that, but it's just another thing to suggest that someone sees they real 'home' as the UK.

Which citizenship would you suggest....getting another citizenship/PP...is not as easy as saying you just want one....holding just a British passport does suggest anything other than a person may not qualify for another citizenship/PP thats all....I am actually a dual national and one of the PP's is British, and the day the British Goverment decide to start chasing me all over the globe looking for money, just because I hold the PP and take nothing else from them or have any ties with the UK is the day I give up the PP

[chiang mai]

"Domicile is not a raincoat that can be put on and taken off at will", Lord Denning, Master of the rolls - always thought that was a great description of the problems will have changing their domicile.

[chiang mai]

The HMRC discussion paper on residency can be found here: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/consult_condoc_statutory_residence.pdf

[soundman]

This is more a tax and money issue topic.

Nothing to do with getting a Visa to Thailand.

Moved to the Money and business section.

[OJAS]

UK residency status and the continuing use of UK credit cards are 2 quite separate issues IMHO.

On the residency front, my understanding of HMRC advice has always been that all income derived in the UK (pensions, property rent, etc) is liable to UK tax regardless of the location (and even nationality) of the taxpayer.

It is also worth bearing in mind that those of us who have relocated from Blighty to LOS following retirement are classed as non-immigrants rather than residents in the eyes of Thai officialdom. And to obtain permanent residency status here is, I understand, virtually impossible for non-immigrant retirees who do not have any history of paying direct taxes in Thailand.

I therefore see little point in us British non-immigrant retirees striving to obtain UK non-resident status since this would surely then leave us stateless for residency purposes. And, were this the effect of the HMRC proposed changes to which several respondents have referred, if implemented, then I think that all us British non-immigrant retirees would have good reason to be mighty concerned.

In any event, even if UK non-resident status were achieved and resulted in exemption from UK direct taxation, then the Thai equivalent of HMRC would surely demand payment of Thai direct taxes on pension, etc income instead. This would, of course, be tantamount to jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

[Orac]

UK residency status and the continuing use of UK credit cards are 2 quite separate issues IMHO.

On the residency front, my understanding of HMRC advice has always been that all income derived in the UK (pensions, property rent, etc) is liable to UK tax regardless of the location (and even nationality) of the taxpayer.

It is also worth bearing in mind that those of us who have relocated from Blighty to LOS following retirement are classed as non-immigrants rather than residents in the eyes of Thai officialdom. And to obtain permanent residency status here is, I understand, virtually impossible for non-immigrant retirees who do not have any history of paying direct taxes in Thailand.

I therefore see little point in us British non-immigrant retirees striving to obtain UK non-resident status since this would surely then leave us stateless for residency purposes. And, were this the effect of the HMRC proposed changes to which several respondents have referred, if implemented, then I think that all us British non-immigrant retirees would have good reason to be mighty concerned.

In any event, even if UK non-resident status were achieved and resulted in exemption from UK direct taxation, then the Thai equivalent of HMRC would surely demand payment of Thai direct taxes on pension, etc income instead. This would, of course, be tantamount to jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

I am not sure your worries about ending up stateless are valid since the residence ruling is really just a tax thing - there is no plan that I am aware of to remove peoples ability to regaing UK residence status by simply returning to the UK. To stop people from doing that would be unlikely as it would prevent people from paying more tax. You also need to remember that a lot of the people this is used by are very rich and carry a lot of influence, often with significant business interests in the UK which, although they might not pay income tax on, are sometimes subject to corporation tax and can employ a lot of people.

As for the issue of paying tax in Thailand if you don't pay it in the UK on income and pensions, there is a loophole here whereby tax is only payable in Thailand if it is brought into the country in the year that it is earned so if money is held in an account outside of Thailand for a year it is not taxable. I am sure a creative tax accountant would be able to exploit the differences between the two tax systems to avoid most taxes payable.

[PattayaParent]

That's not the document I'm refering to although it does look as though some of the questions in it mirror parts of the document I read. I thought I had a copy but it seems I don't, I'll dig around and try to find it. In essence the document I read talks of having to meet two out four or three out of four conditions in order to become non-resident, it's no longer a straight forward matter of 90 days averaged over four years.

What you saw is a consultancy document for discussion of implementation of possible changes, it is not yet law and the current law still prevails.

[PattayaParent]

"Domicile is not a raincoat that can be put on and taken off at will", Lord Denning, Master of the rolls - always thought that was a great description of the problems will have changing their domicile.

HMRC should read this then because they think that they can take away your non-domiciled status once it has been established.

[PattayaParent]

I told HMRC when I was leaving permanently, to live out here, and they send me a letter accepting that I became non-resident on the day-after-departure. It took a few years until they finally agreed that I didn't need to complete annual-returns anymore.

I sold my property & car, moved my banking to an offshore (Jersey) branch of the same bank, and closed my UK-accounts, and invested our joint-savings offshore, so that any income arises offshore of both the UK and Thailand.

I believe that loosing my UK-Domicile may take decades, and HMRC seem reluctant, to tell me just what I must do to actually achieve this, escaping Inheritance-Tax when I die may therefore be problematical. I believe that it helps that I now have a Thai-Will, and wish to be cremated in Thailand, not returned to be buried in the UK.

Only 3 years actually.

There is a current discussion paper looking at providing full nil-rate-band relief to non UK national spouses so instead of the current 55,000 Quid allowance your wife will get the full 325,000 Quid allowance which will reduce your IHT bill a little It's not law yet though, they are just looking at thinking about considering it.

A Thai will cannot dispose of your UK assets.

[Ricardo]

I told HMRC when I was leaving permanently, to live out here, and they send me a letter accepting that I became non-resident on the day-after-departure. It took a few years until they finally agreed that I didn't need to complete annual-returns anymore.

I sold my property & car, moved my banking to an offshore (Jersey) branch of the same bank, and closed my UK-accounts, and invested our joint-savings offshore, so that any income arises offshore of both the UK and Thailand.

I believe that loosing my UK-Domicile may take decades, and HMRC seem reluctant, to tell me just what I must do to actually achieve this, escaping Inheritance-Tax when I die may therefore be problematical. I believe that it helps that I now have a Thai-Will, and wish to be cremated in Thailand, not returned to be buried in the UK.

Only 3 years actually.

There is a current discussion paper looking at providing full nil-rate-band relief to non UK national spouses so instead of the current 55,000 Quid allowance your wife will get the full 325,000 Quid allowance which will reduce your IHT bill a little It's not law yet though, they are just looking at thinking about considering it.

A Thai will cannot dispose of your UK assets.

Thanks for that snippet of news, the IHT-change would be useful, when it happens, so would the Cons' pre-election promise to raise the nil-rate-band to a million quid !

My only remaining UK assets are a suitcase of old clothes, stored at my sister's house, to keep me warm when I pop back for a visit !

Edited April 19, 2012 by Ricardo

[exeter]

A constantly changing picture then that needs to be looked at carefully especially for arrears where things can be interpreted in different ways and as is usual with govts they will always decide the rules of the day and what can overirde what if needs be.

Take each govt agency seperately, they all have different positions, and ask for clarification of your point it neccessary, I would personally take the same approach to outside agencies as well. What applies today may change tomorrow or the day after.

Any paper, book etc is probably out of date at the point of publication oweing to "new information coming to light."

Yes its a mine field, take the name, not the time and the date of anyone giving you information to support your case ( althought we usually foget to!).

[PattayaParent]

I told HMRC when I was leaving permanently, to live out here, and they send me a letter accepting that I became non-resident on the day-after-departure. It took a few years until they finally agreed that I didn't need to complete annual-returns anymore.

I sold my property & car, moved my banking to an offshore (Jersey) branch of the same bank, and closed my UK-accounts, and invested our joint-savings offshore, so that any income arises offshore of both the UK and Thailand.

I believe that loosing my UK-Domicile may take decades, and HMRC seem reluctant, to tell me just what I must do to actually achieve this, escaping Inheritance-Tax when I die may therefore be problematical. I believe that it helps that I now have a Thai-Will, and wish to be cremated in Thailand, not returned to be buried in the UK.

Only 3 years actually.

There is a current discussion paper looking at providing full nil-rate-band relief to non UK national spouses so instead of the current 55,000 Quid allowance your wife will get the full 325,000 Quid allowance which will reduce your IHT bill a little It's not law yet though, they are just looking at thinking about considering it.

A Thai will cannot dispose of your UK assets.

Thanks for that snippet of news, the IHT-change would be useful, when it happens, so would the Cons' pre-election promise to raise the nil-rate-band to a million quid !

My only remaining UK assets are a suitcase of old clothes, stored at my sister's house, to keep me warm when I pop back for a visit !

I'd thought it was £500,000 but the Libs vetoed it.

Do you stay at your sisters house? They could consider that as having a place permanently available for your use and therefore you're not a non-dom.

[TommoPhysicist]

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

Are you sure you mean Thai Credit Card? (Very hard to get without a work permit)

What is wrong with the normal Thai ATM (VISA) cards, I can assure you there is no annual fee for such a card.

[chiang mai]

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

Are you sure you mean Thai Credit Card? (Very hard to get without a work permit)

What is wrong with the normal Thai ATM (VISA) cards, I can assure you there is no annual fee for such a card.

There is a one time fee for Thai debit cards of between 200 and 400 baht, I have heard that some banks are now charging an annual fee also although I'm not aware of which ones.

[tomallison]

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

Are you sure you mean Thai Credit Card? (Very hard to get without a work permit)

What is wrong with the normal Thai ATM (VISA) cards, I can assure you there is no annual fee for such a card.

There is a one time fee for Thai debit cards of between 200 and 400 baht, I have heard that some banks are now charging an annual fee also although I'm not aware of which ones.

I pay an annual fee for these cards with SCB and Bangkok Bank. I am sure that this is the norm.

[alfieconn]

This HMRC leaflet explains the various terms regarding residence, and also how it affects your tax:-

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf

As regards a credit card application, I guess if it's an entirely new application you may well be stuffed. Before I left I told my cc providers I was going to be abroad for an extended period. One of them was a bit sniffy and said the abroad notification would last three months - the account still works after 2.1/2 years. The other, HSBC Visa, were totally obliging and I use their card virtually every month for something or other. Both have my address here, although the easiest thing is to do everything online. The HSBC card was renewed last year with no problem. Everybody, HMRC, DSS, pension providers, UK bank etc, all know I'm here, and that works for me.

Having said that, I'm not 'Non-resident' for tax purposes, because it seems that most UK-derived pensions are subject to UK tax, so I can't see any advantage. The leaflet says that 'Most UK pensions' are subject to tax, but I couldn't see anything which clarifies which pensions are not.

As a general point anyone who just gets on a plane and leaves without thinking through everything to do with your bank account, income sources, tax, credit cards etc and making suitable arrangements is likely to run into trouble after a while.

Edit:- I see that whilst I was stumbling through my post others have posted appropriate links

I've had the same experience with my credit cards. I told them I will be here for a few years and they were fine. But the odd thing is that one of the companies that is fine with me using my card and living here won't let me apply for a different card. But I think in general that they want to keep you as a customer if you spend money and pay on time. They are making a profit from you, so they have no reason to stop you using your card.

There are some major advantages to being non-resident. You are not liable to CGT and not liable to tax on many types of earnings. I have money from affiliate marketing being paid to my UK bank account. That is not subject to tax because I'm non-resident. And when I sell my assets there won't be any tax to pay. It all depends on your individual circumstances though. If I go back to UK on holiday and get ill and need to see a doctor, then I will have to pay, as you can't get NHS treatment for free if you're non-resident. Although I can't see how they would possibly know this. I can't really imagine HMRC passing the info to the NHS and it actually getting onto a system that every doctor and hospital has access to.

As at the last budget, assets such as properties are now liable to CGT for non-residents when sold.

[cardholder]

This HMRC leaflet explains the various terms regarding residence, and also how it affects your tax:-

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf

As regards a credit card application, I guess if it's an entirely new application you may well be stuffed. Before I left I told my cc providers I was going to be abroad for an extended period. One of them was a bit sniffy and said the abroad notification would last three months - the account still works after 2.1/2 years. The other, HSBC Visa, were totally obliging and I use their card virtually every month for something or other. Both have my address here, although the easiest thing is to do everything online. The HSBC card was renewed last year with no problem. Everybody, HMRC, DSS, pension providers, UK bank etc, all know I'm here, and that works for me.

Having said that, I'm not 'Non-resident' for tax purposes, because it seems that most UK-derived pensions are subject to UK tax, so I can't see any advantage. The leaflet says that 'Most UK pensions' are subject to tax, but I couldn't see anything which clarifies which pensions are not.

As a general point anyone who just gets on a plane and leaves without thinking through everything to do with your bank account, income sources, tax, credit cards etc and making suitable arrangements is likely to run into trouble after a while.

Edit:- I see that whilst I was stumbling through my post others have posted appropriate links

I've had the same experience with my credit cards. I told them I will be here for a few years and they were fine. But the odd thing is that one of the companies that is fine with me using my card and living here won't let me apply for a different card. But I think in general that they want to keep you as a customer if you spend money and pay on time. They are making a profit from you, so they have no reason to stop you using your card.

There are some major advantages to being non-resident. You are not liable to CGT and not liable to tax on many types of earnings. I have money from affiliate marketing being paid to my UK bank account. That is not subject to tax because I'm non-resident. And when I sell my assets there won't be any tax to pay. It all depends on your individual circumstances though. If I go back to UK on holiday and get ill and need to see a doctor, then I will have to pay, as you can't get NHS treatment for free if you're non-resident. Although I can't see how they would possibly know this. I can't really imagine HMRC passing the info to the NHS and it actually getting onto a system that every doctor and hospital has access to.

As at the last budget, assets such as properties are now liable to CGT for non-residents when sold.

Not your main residence, I understand.

[nong38]

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

Are you sure you mean Thai Credit Card? (Very hard to get without a work permit)

What is wrong with the normal Thai ATM (VISA) cards, I can assure you there is no annual fee for such a card.

There usually is a fee with the thai ATM card, the ones I have seen anyway.

[letitbe]

I told HMRC when I was leaving permanently, to live out here, and they send me a letter accepting that I became non-resident on the day-after-departure. It took a few years until they finally agreed that I didn't need to complete annual-returns anymore.

I sold my property & car, moved my banking to an offshore (Jersey) branch of the same bank, and closed my UK-accounts, and invested our joint-savings offshore, so that any income arises offshore of both the UK and Thailand.

I believe that loosing my UK-Domicile may take decades, and HMRC seem reluctant, to tell me just what I must do to actually achieve this, escaping Inheritance-Tax when I die may therefore be problematical. I believe that it helps that I now have a Thai-Will, and wish to be cremated in Thailand, not returned to be buried in the UK.

I told HMRC when I was leaving permanently, to live out here, and they send me a letter accepting that I became non-resident on the day-after-departure. It took a few years until they finally agreed that I didn't need to complete annual-returns anymore.

I sold my property & car, moved my banking to an offshore (Jersey) branch of the same bank, and closed my UK-accounts, and invested our joint-savings offshore, so that any income arises offshore of both the UK and Thailand.

I believe that loosing my UK-Domicile may take decades, and HMRC seem reluctant, to tell me just what I must do to actually achieve this, escaping Inheritance-Tax when I die may therefore be problematical. I believe that it helps that I now have a Thai-Will, and wish to be cremated in Thailand, not returned to be buried in the UK.

quite correct but in reality the UK tax people cant do much if youve taken most of your assets out and given them to your Thai wife and our children as I have. One advantage of being non res is no capital gains tax which I wish id done many years ago since it would have saved me around 250k gbp

[brit1984]

If I inform HMRC tomorrow that I left UK permanently (actually I haven't been there since February) which tax year can I stop paying tax on my UK sourced income (dividends from business in London)?... I do not own any property in UK (I was renting a flat in London for which the contract will expire before the end of this year) and I don't mind limiting my visits to less than 90 days per year (and when I am there I will not be conducting any business)... do I have to wait 3 years for the tax saving?

[chiang mai]

If I inform HMRC tomorrow that I left UK permanently (actually I haven't been there since February) which tax year can I stop paying tax on my UK sourced income (dividends from business in London)?... I do not own any property in UK (I was renting a flat in London for which the contract will expire before the end of this year) and I don't mind limiting my visits to less than 90 days per year (and when I am there I will not be conducting any business)... do I have to wait 3 years for the tax saving?

The only savings is that your income that arises in the UK may be paid to you free of tax, up to your annual personal exemption limit, anything over that and you will still be taxed, either by deduction at source or via the annual return., in many respects that's not really a savings as such since it nets out to the same ammount both ways..Your real savings are is you can move the investment outside of the UK, in that event it becomes free of all UK tax.

As for the timeframe, difficult to tell what HMRC might say, they may give you non-residency this year or they may make you wait, they are pretty much a law unto themselves, my guess is that they will make you wait.

Edited April 19, 2012 by chiang mai

[alfieconn]

This HMRC leaflet explains the various terms regarding residence, and also how it affects your tax:-

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf

As regards a credit card application, I guess if it's an entirely new application you may well be stuffed. Before I left I told my cc providers I was going to be abroad for an extended period. One of them was a bit sniffy and said the abroad notification would last three months - the account still works after 2.1/2 years. The other, HSBC Visa, were totally obliging and I use their card virtually every month for something or other. Both have my address here, although the easiest thing is to do everything online. The HSBC card was renewed last year with no problem. Everybody, HMRC, DSS, pension providers, UK bank etc, all know I'm here, and that works for me.

Having said that, I'm not 'Non-resident' for tax purposes, because it seems that most UK-derived pensions are subject to UK tax, so I can't see any advantage. The leaflet says that 'Most UK pensions' are subject to tax, but I couldn't see anything which clarifies which pensions are not.

As a general point anyone who just gets on a plane and leaves without thinking through everything to do with your bank account, income sources, tax, credit cards etc and making suitable arrangements is likely to run into trouble after a while.

Edit:- I see that whilst I was stumbling through my post others have posted appropriate links

I've had the same experience with my credit cards. I told them I will be here for a few years and they were fine. But the odd thing is that one of the companies that is fine with me using my card and living here won't let me apply for a different card. But I think in general that they want to keep you as a customer if you spend money and pay on time. They are making a profit from you, so they have no reason to stop you using your card.

There are some major advantages to being non-resident. You are not liable to CGT and not liable to tax on many types of earnings. I have money from affiliate marketing being paid to my UK bank account. That is not subject to tax because I'm non-resident. And when I sell my assets there won't be any tax to pay. It all depends on your individual circumstances though. If I go back to UK on holiday and get ill and need to see a doctor, then I will have to pay, as you can't get NHS treatment for free if you're non-resident. Although I can't see how they would possibly know this. I can't really imagine HMRC passing the info to the NHS and it actually getting onto a system that every doctor and hospital has access to.

As at the last budget, assets such as properties are now liable to CGT for non-residents when sold.

Not your main residence, I understand.

Do you know what is classified as your main residence if you no longer live in blighty ? perhaps your last permament address ?

[chiang mai]

There's a rather dated but still mostly accurate article here that discusses domicile and how it can be changed:

http://www.telegraph...ou-qualify.html

And whilst posting that here's the HMRC page on residency:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/

Edited April 20, 2012 by chiang mai

[w11guy]

If I inform HMRC tomorrow that I left UK permanently (actually I haven't been there since February) which tax year can I stop paying tax on my UK sourced income (dividends from business in London)?... I do not own any property in UK (I was renting a flat in London for which the contract will expire before the end of this year) and I don't mind limiting my visits to less than 90 days per year (and when I am there I will not be conducting any business)... do I have to wait 3 years for the tax saving?

The only savings is that your income that arises in the UK may be paid to you free of tax, up to your annual personal exemption limit, anything over that and you will still be taxed, either by deduction at source or via the annual return., in many respects that's not really a savings as such since it nets out to the same ammount both ways..Your real savings are is you can move the investment outside of the UK, in that event it becomes free of all UK tax.

As for the timeframe, difficult to tell what HMRC might say, they may give you non-residency this year or they may make you wait, they are pretty much a law unto themselves, my guess is that they will make you wait.

What you say is wrong. Income that arises in the UK is not taxed, unless it's from an asset such as property. If you are non-resident you don't get an annual allowance, so you are wrong about that as well. None of the pay I receive in the UK is taxable.

I left the UK in May and HMRC agreed that I was non-resident for the next tax year. I think they grant it for the first full year that you're not there, but I'm sure this can vary based on circumstances. You don't have to wait for 3 years.

[w11guy]

If I inform HMRC tomorrow that I left UK permanently (actually I haven't been there since February) which tax year can I stop paying tax on my UK sourced income (dividends from business in London)?... I do not own any property in UK (I was renting a flat in London for which the contract will expire before the end of this year) and I don't mind limiting my visits to less than 90 days per year (and when I am there I will not be conducting any business)... do I have to wait 3 years for the tax saving?

The only savings is that your income that arises in the UK may be paid to you free of tax, up to your annual personal exemption limit, anything over that and you will still be taxed, either by deduction at source or via the annual return., in many respects that's not really a savings as such since it nets out to the same ammount both ways..Your real savings are is you can move the investment outside of the UK, in that event it becomes free of all UK tax.

As for the timeframe, difficult to tell what HMRC might say, they may give you non-residency this year or they may make you wait, they are pretty much a law unto themselves, my guess is that they will make you wait.

They can't make you wait and can't be a law unto themselves. If you should have non-resident status and you don't get it then you can challenge them through the courts. I think hey are very fair if you have genuinely left. They didn't ask me any questions at all. They just accepted that i had left.

[w11guy]

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

Are you sure you mean Thai Credit Card? (Very hard to get without a work permit)

What is wrong with the normal Thai ATM (VISA) cards, I can assure you there is no annual fee for such a card.

There usually is a fee with the thai ATM card, the ones I have seen anyway.

There in no fee at all on my Thai ATM card. If you are charged a fee I suggest you change banks, as you are likely in a very small minority of people that pay a fee.

[w11guy]

UK residency status and the continuing use of UK credit cards are 2 quite separate issues IMHO.

On the residency front, my understanding of HMRC advice has always been that all income derived in the UK (pensions, property rent, etc) is liable to UK tax regardless of the location (and even nationality) of the taxpayer.

It is also worth bearing in mind that those of us who have relocated from Blighty to LOS following retirement are classed as non-immigrants rather than residents in the eyes of Thai officialdom. And to obtain permanent residency status here is, I understand, virtually impossible for non-immigrant retirees who do not have any history of paying direct taxes in Thailand.

I therefore see little point in us British non-immigrant retirees striving to obtain UK non-resident status since this would surely then leave us stateless for residency purposes. And, were this the effect of the HMRC proposed changes to which several respondents have referred, if implemented, then I think that all us British non-immigrant retirees would have good reason to be mighty concerned.

In any event, even if UK non-resident status were achieved and resulted in exemption from UK direct taxation, then the Thai equivalent of HMRC would surely demand payment of Thai direct taxes on pension, etc income instead. This would, of course, be tantamount to jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

On the credit card front, I have not experienced any difficulties in continuing to use my UK card following my move to Thailand - or even to have it replaced following its fraudulent use here. Sure the exchange rate may not be favourable as 1 or 2 respondents have pointed out, but this needs to be weighed against an annual fee of at least 300 THB for a Thai credit card (my UK card has no such fee).

Being non-resident does not mean you are stateless. I'm a UK citizen that is resident in Thailand. It's as simple as that. Being non-resident or not is a tax issue, not a citizenship issue.