Senior Pheu Thai MP Advises Thaksin To Forfeit 46 Billion Baht For Amnesty

[MILT]

Great news, one step closer in bringing Thaksin home. So he could be home in time for his birthday and what a party that will be.

A red party in more way than one, methinks.

The proposal mentioned in the OP does kind of sound like the kind of Thai style logic that many people might buy though. Reminds me of people in the early days of Thaksin's power who used to say he's so rich he doesn't need more money so he won't be corrupt!

I am pretty sure I was one of them. Then I watch how he bought his way in. Thailand has never been the same since.

[WAERTH]

Snoh: The senior Pheu Thai MP also said that the resistance from the Opposition's Democrat Party on the bill should be ignored for the sake of reconciliation.

Ahum ..... the whole bill is meant to reconcile the populace. The Democrats represent 35-40% of the populace ....... so he wants to ignore 40% of the populace ...... great way to reconcile.

Now in my opinion reconciliation is a natural process not something you can put into law.

[Jingthing]

Great news, one step closer in bringing Thaksin home. So he could be home in time for his birthday and what a party that will be.

A red party in more way than one, methinks.

The proposal mentioned in the OP does kind of sound like the kind of Thai style logic that many people might buy though. Reminds me of people in the early days of Thaksin's power who used to say he's so rich he doesn't need more money so he won't be corrupt!

I am pretty sure I was one of them. Then I watch how he bought his way in. Thailand has never been the same since.

You were slow then. I remember Thai people telling me that and I tried to explain to them that makes no sense. But I didn't try very hard, as of course they didn't want to hear.

[ianf]

Great news, one step closer in bringing Thaksin home. So he could be home in time for his birthday and what a party that will be.

Its a shame that some people really do not understand, really understand, the issues and the lies and manipulation which are part and parcel of Thaksin's 'leadership'. You don't have to delve into the internet to deeply to learn what this guy was up to. I am not here making a political comment about which party to support. This, for me, has got a lot to do with decency and how we treat each other as human beings. As long as these type of despots rule just for their own personal gain - fiscal as well as to bolster some psychotic need - then the poor and decent folks will continue to suffer. We have seen this in the Philippines with Marcos, China with Mao, Burma with the generals and so on and so on. In the 1970s when I was employed by the IS at Amnesty International, I believed (naively as it happens) that in face of the terrible events with Pinochet in Chile as well as other dictators in Latin America, the dictatorships in the Eastern European countries and so forth that by the new millennium people would have learnt not to let these despots get away with it and so the world would become a better place. Sadly, as I get older, I realise that human rights is not a priority for those people who can seize their countries in the way that history has shown. They are supported by people, who for their own reasons, refuse to see what is really the intent of these 'rulers' and for me Thaksin is no different from theother examples of history. History teaches us so much but there are many who refuse to learn these lessons.

[tukkytuktuk]

Oh, well we must believe you Ian as you worked with a human rights organisation. Human rights violations have been happening in this country for a long time before and after Thaksin was Prime Minister and not everything you read on the web is true you know. In this country the web is censored alot so maybe all the websites with positive statements about Thaksin have been removed.

[khunken]

The other newspaper has a bit more on Snoh's verbal dribblings: “It will remain so as long as we establish an independent organisation to decide a matter by a majority vote. For example, if you can control five people in a nine-man committee, that is a disaster.”

This is a great comment from the person who was able to place two compliant judges, sufficient to get Thaksin off his 'honest mistake' in failing to declare all his assets at the start of his autocracy.

[Payboy]

Ever wonder what was in the 114 suitcases which Thaksin transported to Finland only days before the coup?

Mama noodles tomyum flavor - desert proof packs?

[AleG]

Ah, Snoh... he knows a thing or two about avoiding legal consequences for criminal activities.

[tukkytuktuk]

I know what was in those suit cases the plans for the Finland Plot which was secretly going to take action before the coup saved the day. It says so on the web so it must be true.

[OzMick]

Oh, well we must believe you Ian as you worked with a human rights organisation. Human rights violations have been happening in this country for a long time before and after Thaksin was Prime Minister and not everything you read on the web is true you know. In this country the web is censored alot so maybe all the websites with positive statements about Thaksin have been removed.

There are plenty of websites saying positive things about Thaksin. It's just that their hit rate is infinitesimal, like the IQ of those who create the infinitesimally small hit rates. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it swallow <deleted>.

[tukkytuktuk]

Again all you can resort to is quick retorts and bad language all the makings of a highly educated human being who has not been violated in any way.

[BigSkip]

Amazing............

[CHANGOVER]

Yes never use that disgusting Thaksin word! Wash your mouth out!

[jerrysteve]

Forfeiting 46 million in baht is a fair exchange along with 20 years in the Grey Bar Hotel doing "Hard-Time" cleaning toilets might just be a spiritual awakening.

[MikeOboe57]

Again all you can resort to is quick retorts and bad language all the makings of a highly educated human being who has not been violated in any way.

Cheer up, my dear. You have a crush for criminals and other despicable characters, but there is no need to be ashamed of that. Movie makers all over the world have cashed in on that sentiment by creating the "noble outlaw" loosely based on historic figures from Jesse James to the Highwayman and the German "Schinderhannes" Hans Bueckler. While they would steal from the rich - stealing from the poor would not have made any sense - they would usually pay for food and shelter. This created the legend that they "gave to the poor", when they were actually blowing most of the plunder.

Thaksin's main achievement was to create the impression that he cared for the poor while in reality he wouldn't give a flying fxrt. And it's people like you who allow him to get away with that lie.

Permitting Thaksin to come back to Thailand "in style" is like inviting white ants into your house - a desaster.

[ramrod711]

be aware that reconciliation and amnesty are not the same thing. amnesty is given by the Monarch at his discretion, not by a bunch of Thaksins buddies. reconciliation involves the Thai people, again not just Thaksins buddies in parliament. when the reconciliation bill is passed and supported by a referendum, I will cease opposition to his return. I won't like it, but I will accept it.

unless you are thai national i can not see your support or opposition having any weight what so ever

you are, of course, correct. the same could be said of any post on here. Very few Thai people have ever asked me for my opinion on anything

[siampolee]

BANGKOK: -- Pheu Thai Party List MP Sanoh Thienthong advises former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to forfeit his claim on the 46 billion baht seized from him in order to receive amnesty.

This must surely rank as the highest ever overt kickback in Thai political history

Another new record set is the fact that it is also the biggest kick in the teeth that the Thai people have ever received

The whole issue has been proposed by a , 'party list M.P.''

Sanoh is an M.P who did not have to stand for election to gain his seat in Parliament..

Plainly a member of this party.

P.T. riding roughshod over the people. How, wonderfully democratic.,

Edited April 17, 2012 by siampolee

[ianf]

Oh, well we must believe you Ian as you worked with a human rights organisation. Human rights violations have been happening in this country for a long time before and after Thaksin was Prime Minister and not everything you read on the web is true you know. In this country the web is censored alot so maybe all the websites with positive statements about Thaksin have been removed.

I was telling you about what I feel. I do not have a monopoly on truth as some posters seem to have on this board.

[geriatrickid]

In respect to th actual issue, the suggestion of;

1, No longer contesting the monetary penalty and ,

2. PTP proposing the amnesty

give insight into the current strategy. I think it is a viable way forward. In Thailand, money is very important and such a loss would act to satisfy many people in the anti Thaksin camp. It would also play to the "I love Thailand and will sacrifice for the nation strategy".

I think it is wise that the government not propose the amnesty and instead allow a private member's Bill to be considered. A brilliant political move as a member is allowed to bring forth legislation and members can then decide. Unsavoury or difficult political issues have sometimes been resolved in this manner as it keeps the government unattached to a contestable Bill. One sees this with hot button issues such as the Death Penalty, Abortion or Gun related issues in other parliaments.

Nothing precludes a member of the House for introducing a Bill. That is what the House is for: The consideration and discussion of parliamentary acts.

[geriatrickid]

Ever wonder what was in the 114 suitcases which Thaksin transported to Finland only days before the coup?

Mama noodles tomyum flavor - desert proof packs?

The precedent was set when Mr. and Mrs. Howle set out on a 3 hour tour and had a similar baggage allotment.

[nong38]

Sounds a bit like a thai version of a bribe with someone else's money, curiouser and curiouser!

[connda]

So make it fair and allow every person who has been convicted of a crime the ability to buy their way out of jail using a sliding scale based on net worth. And I guess that every one who has a negative net worth gets out for free.

What makes a billionaire criminal different than a poor criminal. Ooohhhh. Silly me -- money and power.

An unfair judicial system? Well than it's unfair for everybody. Come back and do you're two years like a man. The population will rally around you once you're out! What are you thinking? It would be over and done with by now.

[OzMick]

be aware that reconciliation and amnesty are not the same thing. amnesty is given by the Monarch at his discretion, not by a bunch of Thaksins buddies. reconciliation involves the Thai people, again not just Thaksins buddies in parliament. when the reconciliation bill is passed and supported by a referendum, I will cease opposition to his return. I won't like it, but I will accept it.

unless you are thai national i can not see your support or opposition having any weight what so ever

you are, of course, correct. the same could be said of any post on here. Very few Thai people have ever asked me for my opinion on anything

respect has to be earned.

[OzMick]

So make it fair and allow every person who has been convicted of a crime the ability to buy their way out of jail using a sliding scale based on net worth. And I guess that every one who has a negative net worth gets out for free.

What makes a billionaire criminal different than a poor criminal. Ooohhhh. Silly me -- money and power.

An unfair judicial system? Well than it's unfair for everybody. Come back and do you're two years like a man. The population will rally around you once you're out! What are you thinking? It would be over and done with by now.

While I fully agree with your sliding scale sentiment, but wondering the price of 93 lives, please remember that the fugitive faces several other charges which may or may not be able to be shunted to a dead-end track and thus avoid judgement. BY the time some of those are served, a lot of Thais might not even remember his name.

[siampolee]

One is led to wonder whether Sanoh may be influenced by the matters mentioned below in the price of a return ticket.

BANGKOK:-- The Land Department director-general who had suggested that the Interior Ministry revoke the unlawfully-earned land deeds for the Alpine golf course and housing estate in Pathum Thani has been moved to an inactive position.

The Saga of Alpine Golf and Sports Club

Now that this morning we know of the Supreme Court’s decision to accept the case filed by National Counter Corruption Commission against Sanoh Tienthong, the ex-interior minister and now the leader of Pracharaj Party, for abusing of authority while in office in connection with a piece of land owned by a Buddhist temple in Prachuabkirikhant Province, some 280 km to the south from Bangkok.

The land was developed into a golf course and a housing estate in Prathumthani to the north of Bangkok boundary.

The case is known widely as Alpine Golf land deal. The golf course is now owned by Thaksin Shinawatra’s children. No doubt about who is the de facto owner.

The controversial case of Alpine Golf and Sports Club has been dragging on for more than 20 years.

It’s a classic example of political power abusing and tricky scheme by a politician who used his authority to circumvent legal obstructions plus conspiracy of some slavish bureaucrats and a well-known Buddhist foundation. It is the biggest case of land cheating that involved a Buddhist temple Thailand has ever experienced. The National Counter Corruption Commission in 2009 finally picked up the case for investigation and found substantial ground to build s strong case against Snoh Tienthong who used his authority as minister of interior to issued orders to the effect that the land was illegally transferred to two companies set up by his wife.

NCCC decided to forward the case to Attorney-General Office in early August this year for further action. But the A-G Office dropped a bombshell by boldly declared that the case has already passed the 20-year statute of limitation and that the case as built by NCCC is technically incomplete. So, the A-G Office decided not to lend its helping hand to the NCCC by refusing to work the case for court proceeding.

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com

Edited April 17, 2012 by siampolee

[bigbamboo]

One is led to wonder whether Sanoh may be influenced by the matters mentioned below in the price of a return ticket.

BANGKOK:-- The Land Department director-general who had suggested that the Interior Ministry revoke the unlawfully-earned land deeds for the Alpine golf course and housing estate in Pathum Thani has been moved to an inactive position.

The Saga of Alpine Golf and Sports Club

Now that this morning we know of the Supreme Court’s decision to accept the case filed by National Counter Corruption Commission against Sanoh Tienthong, the ex-interior minister and now the leader of Pracharaj Party, for abusing of authority while in office in connection with a piece of land owned by a Buddhist temple in Prachuabkirikhant Province, some 280 km to the south from Bangkok.

The land was developed into a golf course and a housing estate in Prathumthani to the north of Bangkok boundary.

The case is known widely as Alpine Golf land deal. The golf course is now owned by Thaksin Shinawatra’s children. No doubt about who is the de facto owner.

The controversial case of Alpine Golf and Sports Club has been dragging on for more than 20 years.

It’s a classic example of political power abusing and tricky scheme by a politician who used his authority to circumvent legal obstructions plus conspiracy of some slavish bureaucrats and a well-known Buddhist foundation. It is the biggest case of land cheating that involved a Buddhist temple Thailand has ever experienced. The National Counter Corruption Commission in 2009 finally picked up the case for investigation and found substantial ground to build s strong case against Snoh Tienthong who used his authority as minister of interior to issued orders to the effect that the land was illegally transferred to two companies set up by his wife.

NCCC decided to forward the case to Attorney-General Office in early August this year for further action. But the A-G Office dropped a bombshell by boldly declared that the case has already passed the 20-year statute of limitation and that the case as built by NCCC is technically incomplete. So, the A-G Office decided not to lend its helping hand to the NCCC by refusing to work the case for court proceeding.

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com

I thought you were supposed to give to the monks, not take from them?

[RogueExpat]

I thought you were supposed to give to the monks, not take from them?

They (temples/monks) have to have permission from the interior minister to control over 50 Rai of land.

More from the land saga.

It started when Grandma Nuem Chumnanchartsakda, a lay sponsor of the abbot of Wat Thammikaramvaraviharn in Prachuabkirikhan Province, where Hua Hin, the most famous resort town is located, had donated a large pieces of land measuring about 732 rais (293 acres) and registered on a title deed No. 20 located at Klong Soi No.5, Klong Luang District, Patumthani Province. This place is generally known as Rangsit about 25 Km up north on Paholyothin Highway from Don Mueang Airport in Bangkok. The donation was written down on Grandma Nuem’s will on Nov. 20, 1969 at Dusit District in Bangkok. Two years later on May 22, 1971, Grandma Nuem passed away. So, it was known then that the land was donated under the will of Grandma Nuem to a Buddhist temple known as Wat Thammikaramvaraviharn.

According to media reports, the 3 court-appointed inheritance custodians had tried in vain to transfer ownership of the land to the temple. But the temple abbot did not cooperate and insisted that it’s better for the temple if the land be sold out for cash, citing that the temple already had a nearby land of about 50 rais, which was enough for the temple to make use of it. Besides, the donated land was in Patumthani, a place so far away from the temple. Nothing was done about the land until 1990, during which the abbot pressured the 3 custodians of the inheritance to the point that they all had to resign as the inheritance custodian. Shortly afterwards, Mahamongkut Foundation was appointed as the new inheritance custodian under the order of the Interior Minister, who happened to be Mr. Snoh Tienthong, who has been known as Chao Poh Wang Nam Yen of Sra Keo Province (bordering Cambodia in the East). Chao Poh means big boss or godfather in the mobster context.

Snoh Tienthong served as interior minister in the government with Gen. Chatichai Choonhavan as PM and Leader of Chart Thai Party (disbanded by Constitution Court’s ruling on Dec 2, 2008 for election fraud) from 1988 to 1991. Snoh later joined New Aspiration Party with Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyuth as leader and himself as secretary-general. He again served as Interior minister when Gen. Chavalit had the mandate to form the government in Nov. 1996. Snoh served as minister of interior for the second time until Nov. 8, 1997 when Gen. Chavalit resigned as prime minister as a result of the financial meltdown crisis in Asia, during which the value of Thai Baht hit the Bht50 per US dollar in its free fall in the exchange market.

According to a regulation, any donation of land to a temple if exceeds 50 rais in area, the temple must seek permission from the minister of interior to make the donation effective and traditionally permission was granted without any problem. But Snoh Tienthong made it a historic in the annals of land donation in which a religious entity was involved, by refusing to grant permission for Wat Thammikayaramvaraviharn to take the land donation. Instead, he issued a letter on Feb. 12, 1990 in his capacity as interior minister ordering the temple to transfer the right on the land to Mahamongkut Foundation.

There was no reports in the media about the transfer of rights over the donated land from the temple to the foundation but 6 months after Snoh issued his latter to the temple, the ownership of the land was passed over from the temple to Mahamongkut Foundation and the Foundation passed the ownership of the land to Alpine Real Estate Co., Ltd. and Alpine Golf and Sports Club Co., Ltd. on Aug 21, 1990. According to Matichon newspaper, the two companies paid about Bht 142 million (other sources reported the cost at Bht 130 million) to Mahamongkut Foundation. The two companies at the same time arranged with a commercial bank to pledge the land for a loan of Bht220 million. This financing arrangement resulted in an instant income of Bht 78million in the two companies’ accounts. It’s a smart financial juggling but who were behind such win-win arrangement?

I didn’t surprise at all when I found out that the shareholders of the two companies were Mrs. Uraiwan Tienthong, wife of Snoh Tienthong (holding 300,000 shares at a par value of Bht 100/share totaling Bht 30 million), Mr. Vithya Tienthong, younger brother of Snoh (holding 150,000 shares at Bht 15 million in value) and Mr. Choocheep Harnsawas (an MP from Patumthani in TRT party who has been close to Snoh) holding 150,000 shares at Bht 15 million in value).

It should be noted that the two companies were set up in late January 1990, about three weeks before Snoh issued the letter to the temple as mentioned above. Is it a conspiracy by Snoh and his wife to get the land via legal circumvention? To many people, it looks very obvious.

Time passed and the land became a premier 18-hole championship golf course and a high-end housing estate, not too far from Bangkok, Snoh’s wife, Mrs. Uraiwan, sold the golf course and the housing estate to Thaksin Shinawatra in 1998 at a price of Bht 500 million. It was said that Thaksin made an offer to buy and Snoh and his wife decided to comply with the offer as a political good win gesture. Mrs. Uraiwan later was appointed Minister at the Ministry of Culture for two times and another time as Minister of Labour in the Thaksin government before the Sept 19, 2006 military coup. She also served as Minister of Labour in Samak Suntharavej and Somchai Wongsawat governments between Feb. 6, 2008-Dec. 2, 2008). So, this is why the Alpine Golf land deal was an untouchable issue until the NCCC decided to pick it up for investigation in 2009 and finally found it substantial enough for the Supreme Court trial.

http://blog.nationmu...0/09/16/entry-1

Edited April 17, 2012 by RogueExpat

[TPI]

be aware that reconciliation and amnesty are not the same thing. amnesty is given by the Monarch at his discretion, not by a bunch of Thaksins buddies. reconciliation involves the Thai people, again not just Thaksins buddies in parliament. when the reconciliation bill is passed and supported by a referendum, I will cease opposition to his return. I won't like it, but I will accept it.

Hear, hear!

[whybother]

I thought you were supposed to give to the monks, not take from them?

They (temples/monks) have to have permission from the interior minister to control over 50 Rai of land.

More from the land saga.

<snip>

http://blog.nationmu...0/09/16/entry-1

And some new stuff from the land saga:

The Land Department director-general who had suggested that the Interior Ministry revoke the unlawfully-earned land deeds for the Alpine golf course and housing estate in Pathum Thani has been moved to an inactive position.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.