O-A Visa Application – Seeking Verbiage Clarity

[LuckyG]

I am a 50 yr old US Citizen, in Virginia, preparing my application to send to the Thai Embassy in DC for non-immagrant O-A Retirement Visa. I realize that I can obtain a similar visa (O-Visa w/ 1 yr extension) in Thailand and bypass Criminal records check, Medical etc, but it would best suit my needs and circumstances to obtain multi-entry O-A Visa while in the US. I am seeking clarity and advice, so my application does not get hung up, flagged or rejected.

The application request a "Letter of Gaurantee" from my bank to verify funds. Wells Fargo does not provide "letters of gaurantee" for bank accounts, but they were willing to provide me Notarized letter in leu of a "Letter of Gaurantee.

1) Will the Thai Embassy accept a Notarized letter in leu of a " Letter of guarantee"? FYI, switching banks is not a solution I am interested in pursuing.

The application request a "Notarized Letter of Verification" from your Country stating no Criminal record.

2) Have any forum members from the USA ever obtained a Notarized letter from a Police Department? How? Please share how you crossed this hurdle.

FYI, I called my local Police Station who informed that I need to order a Criminal Record Check from the State Police which I have done, but the report will not include a "Notarized Letter".

My Greatest Concern: Am I a Criminal?

31 yrs ago, I was arrested for Selling Marijuana. I was charged with a Felony, but convicted of a Misdemeanor. This information was stated in a last seen Criminal Record Report (1995) - Charged with Felony, Convicted

Misdemeanor. I have had no other offenses.

3-A) If I send the Thai Embassy an updated Criminal Record Report, and or, a Notarized Letter revealing a Misdemeanor that occurred 31 yrs ago, Could this prevent me from obtaining an O-A Visa?

3- Could sending this info blacklist or scar my record and, worst case, possibly prevent me from ever returning to Thailand?

3-C) Does a Misdemeanor conviction that occurred 31 yrs ago constitute a Criminal record?

4) Can the answer to "Date of Arrival in Thailand" on the application be approximate? FYI-I have yet to book my flight because various circumstances and the outcome of this Visa application.).

Thanks for reading and I appreciate your input.

[wayned]

1. The notarized letter from the bank should be okay.

2. You can get an FBI criminal Background check for $18. However, if your record comes back with a criminal conviction you might have a problem.

I would pursue doing the O visa/1 year extension to avoid any problems., However, the 800000 baht must be in a Thai bank in your name only and must be seasoned for 2 months before you apply for the extension

[Jingthing]

If I was in your situation, I would NOT apply for an O-A visa and go the other route instead. Selling marijuana is a serious crime in Thailand. I don't know how the embassy would view that, but I wouldn't want to find out either. Do you seriously think anyone here can authoritatively tell you how the Thai embassy in D.C. is going to react to a criminal record? Because you have one. Why look for trouble? Yes its only a misdemeanor conviction but its not jaywalking, it is selling illegal drugs.

More specifically.

3-A. Sure it MIGHT prevent you from getting an O-A visa. They don't publish guidelines about their internal decision making process.

3-B. Blacklist? I very seriously doubt it. However if you insist on applying for an O-A you might want to pursue more opinions. Its just I've never heard of anyone being blacklisted for making a rejected visa application. People get blacklisted for doing crimes in Thailand and probably being discovered to be fugitives, which you're not. More likely outcome is a possible visa rejection.

3-C. Come on now. You know you have a criminal record. The question is whether the staff there will consider it serious enough and recent enough (very not recent) to cause a rejection of your application.

BTW, best wishes to you in whatever visa tactic your decide to pursue.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I like Wayne's #2 suggestion, pursue the FBI Criminal Records Check, if it come back TO YOU, note, with the 31 year old conviction, then don't apply for the O-A visa. If it comes back clean, go ahead with it.

Mac

[LuckyG]

Thanks for the advice! Today I sent the notarized form to VA State Police Dept to obtain my "Criminal Record", if I have one......Hoping 31 yrs could have caused it to disappear, but after reading JingThings kind words, the reality appears to be that "once you have a record, you always have a record". So, unless it comes back clean, I will pursue the O- Visa/1 yr ext when i get to Thailand.

But while the topic is fresh, in case I do pursue O-A now, Can anyone provide knowledge regarding my question #4--Does arrival date have to be exact? Thanks again!

[Jingthing]

Yes I agree if the record comes back clean, you're cool, but it probably won't.

I wouldn't stress the exact travel date UNLESS they require to see an air ticket/proof of itinerary.

In that case, of course, it needs to match.

Another radical idea. If the record comes back with the bad thing, what would you have to lose by contacting the embassy and JUST ASKING them if that item will cause a rejection?

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I'd think the FBI check would (perhaps "might" might be a better choice of words here) be less likely to have a record of a State level misdemeanor. But, fine, go with the Virginia check first to see what haps. If not so good, and if you still want to pursue the O-A route, do the FBI check, altho it takes a bit longer.

Mac

[LuckyG]

Mac, Great, timely tip about the FBI route! Fortunately Mr. Mailman did not pick up the State Police Report letter so I will pursue an FBI report first;

Jingthing, I have called the embassy and spoken to Two people who were very unfriendly, cold and unhelpful. Their only advice was "go to Police Station" and go to their website. They both sounded bothered, impatient and very rushed to get off the phone. Hence, I don't have a lot of confidence in discussing the matter with the Embassy on the phone. Ultimately I may as a last resort but not yet.

Date of Arrival--- The application ask : Date of arrival in Thailand:................Length of stay.................etc but, does not ask for ticket info, so I guess approximate date can work.

Thanks Guys!

[wayned]

You can do the FBI check, but don't get your hopes up. I was teaching a few years ago and was told that I would need it to renew my visa the next year so I got the fingerprints and sent it in. It came back with a misdemeanor conviction that I got while I was in college in 1963 for using false ID to buy booze. I had forgotten all about it but it was there. Never did have to use it as the requirement disappeared.

[Langsuan Man]

Geez why make trouble for yourself

Go to your local Sheriffs Department, tell them you need a LOCAL criminal records check and the clerk will go back to her file and find nothing and most likely give you a letter stating NO RECORD ON FILE

I have applied to the Embassy in DC, twice for an O-A Visa (Multiple Entry) and they have never required any documents to be notarized, in my research the only places that enforce this notarized requirements are the Consulates in Los Angeles and Chicago ( I now apply every two years to the Consulate in New York)

All I do is submit a copy of my retirement earnings statement

I would suggest you read the requirements from the DC Embassy and save yourself from extra work (BTW, the only thing that they are sticky about is the number of copies required and use their forms)

Required Documents:- (Required 3 sets: 1 original and 2 copies)

- Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must not expire within 6 months and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).

- Visa application form completely filled out (download)

- Addition Application form (download)

- A medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (download)

- Three passport-size photographs (2"x2") (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.

- A copy of bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht

- In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required

- A letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification shall be valid for not more than three months)

- In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the Category ‘O-A’ (Long Stay) visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category ‘O’ visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence

Source: http://www.thaiembdc...on-Imglong.aspx

Edit: Just noticed that (download) above will take you directly to their forms

[Sateev]

DO NOT use the FBI for your criminal background check. Go to the local police in your area and ask for a notarized Letter of Good Conduct or equivalent, which will have, I believe, a history of five years. Tell them it's for the purpose of obtaining a visa, and they will provide you with the correct letter. The cost for mine at the local Sheriff's Office was about $10 PLUS $40 for the notarization.

The bank letter is very misleading, since NO bank will issue you a guarantee. All you really need is a letter from the bank stating that you hold an account and that the balance is greater than the equivalent of THB 800,000. Have it notarized as to your identity. Download and print a statement showing the balance near the time you submit and include it.

The medical (download the form) only requires that your doctor sign it. It doesn't require any printed lab tests. Any personal physician who has taken care of you routinely will sign off on it.

Pay no attention to the ***** who advise against the O-A in favor of an extension. We (at least you and I) know that the benefit of being able to stay almost two years without having to put $30K+ in a Thai bank account is worth the small (actual) hassle of the few extra pieces of paper. You can use money in a retirement account, without having to withdraw it and incur tax (and in your case, a 10% penalty). You have a lot to figure out in those 23 or so months, especially now that Thailand is relatively unstable (compare to even five years ago), so keep your money where it is arguably safe and liquid.

Lastly, if any doubt exists, contact the Thai Embassy where you will be applying. They are more than willing to help you sort it out, and in my case (LA Consulate), I was able to get them to verify the 'bank guarantee' format in advance.

Go for it. Good luck.

[Sateev]

LOL.

[Sateev]

- In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the Category ‘O-A’ (Long Stay) visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category ‘O’ visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence

Be careful on this. Apparently, since the Embassies and Consulates report to the MFA and NOT to Immigration, that provision is NOT enforceable when you try to extend you spouse's visa at Immigration in Thailand, at least in Bangkok. It appears that there is a pissing contest going on between the Royal Thai Immigration Police and the MFA, because four months ago I was told flat-out: "We do not support what the MFA puts on their websites. No non-immigrant O extension for spouses holding O-A visas is permitted by Immigration". Had a distinct note of jealousy/contention/spite in the officer's voice, too. Typical childish Thai bureaucrat games.

Just so you know.

[Jingthing]

To be clear, I don't think anyone here has suggested an O-A visa is not a good way to go in general. We were talking about the issues with this individual's situation. In general, there are advantages and disadvantages of using the O-A or not using it which have been detailed as nauseum over the years on this forum. I consider it a personal choice based on people's specific situation. For example someone qualifying on income wouldn't really care about the lack of need to show banked money in Thailand right away with the O-A.

Good suggestions here about tactics to get a police report that "works" for you. Again, good luck.

[LuckyG]

Lansuaan and Sateev, Great input, but you make the Criminal check hurdle sound so easy. The reality is that, in this situation, it is not so clear and simple. In this electronic age, I cannot imagine a Sherrif Dept actually physically "pulling a file". If they don't tell me that i need to order a criminal check through State Police, like they did on the phone, I expect they will go to a computer and plug in my SS # or run a fingerprint check- both of which will probably link me to the 31 yr old misdemeanor charge in the city which I reside. Also, FYI- I have decided not to pursue the FBI check as stated before--takes too long to process and i am convinced it will electronically find my violation. Also, in case you are not aware, my 31-yr old violation occurred in this City.

Sateev, Did your Notarized Letter of good conduct specifically state you "have no criminal record" ? The Visa application ask for "verification of no criminal record." Do you also have a violation that dates back farther than 5 yrs? Sounds like you got lucky with a "no record on File" statement from a local sherrifs offce. There is a difference in terminology and "no record on file" does not mean "no criminal record".

Also, I have contacted the DC embassy who were very cold and unhelpful. Regardless, I am convinced that Whatever someone tells me on the phone has little bearing on what the person processing my application will do, Which gets back to JingThings relevant question: "Do you really think, anyone on this forum, can predict how an embassy official will react to a criminal record?" Answer: No, but the forum opinions, experiences and input do help.

The million dollar question is: Will a 31 yr old misdemeanor violation for selling MJ hang me on the O-A application? JingThing is right- I have a record. My Dad was right 31 yrs ago when he said, "This could haunt you forever".

Thanks again All !!!!.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, but the good news about this is that you can STILL retire in Thailand, O-A visa or not.

[Maestro]

...

Date of Arrival--- The application ask : Date of arrival in Thailand:................Length of stay.................etc but, does not ask for ticket info, so I guess approximate date can work...

Yes, this information can be approximate. For length of stay, write "1 year" if you apply for the O/A, "90 days" if you apply for a single-entry non-O, ie the period of stay that you will get on arrival with the visa. The fact that you will apply for and receive extensions of stay is a matter that does not have to be shown on the visa application form.

[Langsuan Man]

Lansuaan and Sateev, Great input, but you make the Criminal check hurdle sound so easy. The reality is that, in this situation, it is not so clear and simple. In this electronic age, I cannot imagine a Sherrif Dept actually physically "pulling a file". If they don't tell me that i need to order a criminal check through State Police, like they did on the phone, I expect they will go to a computer and plug in my SS # or run a fingerprint check- both of which will probably link me to the 31 yr old misdemeanor charge in the city which I reside. Also, FYI- I have decided not to pursue the FBI check as stated before--takes too long to process and i am convinced it will electronically find my violation. Also, in case you are not aware, my 31-yr old violation occurred in this City.

Sateev, Did your Notarized Letter of good conduct specifically state you "have no criminal record" ? The Visa application ask for "verification of no criminal record." Do you also have a violation that dates back farther than 5 yrs? Sounds like you got lucky with a "no record on File" statement from a local sherrifs offce. There is a difference in terminology and "no record on file" does not mean "no criminal record".

Also, I have contacted the DC embassy who were very cold and unhelpful. Regardless, I am convinced that Whatever someone tells me on the phone has little bearing on what the person processing my application will do, Which gets back to JingThings relevant question: "Do you really think, anyone on this forum, can predict how an embassy official will react to a criminal record?" Answer: No, but the forum opinions, experiences and input do help.

The million dollar question is: Will a 31 yr old misdemeanor violation for selling MJ hang me on the O-A application? JingThing is right- I have a record. My Dad was right 31 yrs ago when he said, "This could haunt you forever".

Thanks again All !!!!.

Try it first please. Yes, if you live in Arlington or Fairfax County, the records MAY BE computerized but in my county (at the time) Grayson, the procedure was exactly as described. I don't understand where you get this fixation that it must be a complete FBI / State Police Criminal records check. It is just like the medical form, it doesn't require any exhaustive test, just a signature. The person at the Embassy in DC who handles your application just wants to see something official looking that says you don't have a criminal record, don't make it more than what it is. They are paper pushers, just give them the minimum paper to push

Read the instructions and don't make a mountain out of a mole hill

A letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification shall be valid for not more than three months)

[NancyL]

Lucky G, you'll be the one gathering up all the documents to submit to the Thai embassy/consulate in one envelop. So, you'll know what the police report says. If it's bad, just come here with an O visa or even on 30-day visa exempt status and convert it to a "retirement visa" once here.

It seems that different localities have different procedures for securing a "criminal check" or "police report". We were told to start with our local police dept. They checked their records and then fingerprinted us and sent off a request to the state. In a few weeks, they called us to pick up the state report at their office.

The medical form was not a simple matter of our doctors telling themselves they knew us and then signing off. They didn't KNOW if we had TB or syphillis because they'd never had any reason to test for them. So they did. (Cha-ching!) Not a big hurdle, but not a walk in the park, either.

To me, it's really a question of how you want to manage your money and savings.

If you have monthly income of at least 65,000 baht and it's fairly easy to obtain a letter from your Embassy/Consulate, then an O visa obtained in Thailand is the way to go.

If you have 800,000 baht that you can afford to tie-up in a Thai bank account for at least three months annually, then an O visa, with 12-month retirement extensions is the way to go.

Otherwise, an O-A visa, obtained in outside Thailand makes the most sense.

[LuckyG]

Thanks again Langsuan! My mind had foolishy concluded that the Letter of verification of no criminal record had to be Notarized which it does not. So sorry to all in the Forum for stating incorrectly. I am not fixated on a FBI check, it just came up in this forum dialogue. My local police told me that i had to pursue a Criminal Records check via State Police so that is how that came up. My concern is a 31 yr old violation and I almost certian it is on a computer database. The City where the violation occurred, and where I reside, is much larger than Grayson county and more metropollitand. The records are computerized. This matter is more of a mountain than a mole-hill to me because of my circumstance. Regardless, thanks for the input. I will talk to the Local Police station again and see what happens. Will keep the forum posted on my progress.

[Mario2008]

If you fear the police check, you can just get a non-O visa. It will only give you 3 months before you need to have the money seasond to get yearly extensions of stay, but doesn't require a police or medical check.

[Jingthing]

The D.C. embassy is unlikely to grant a single entry O visa for the reason of retirement. Instead they will likely suggest an O-A application instead. O visas are are available in Thailand as part of the "two step process" for those qualified for retirement extensions (second step). Not all Thai immigration offices offer that service though. To start this, a tourist visa from D.C. would be a good idea, especially if going to Thailand on a one way ticket. Another option to get a single entry O at the Thai embassy in Laos or Malaysia (also Penang consulate). The O.P. could also try to contact a "friendly" consulate in the U.S. and ask about getting a single entry O for retirement reasons.

[Mario2008]

Some embassies and general consulates insists on issueing a O-A when applying for reason of retirement. But Honorary consulates can only issue a non-O and generally do so without a problem.

[Jingthing]

Some embassies and general consulates insists on issueing a O-A when applying for reason of retirement. But Honorary consulates can only issue a non-O and generally do so without a problem.

Well yes, but there have been reports over the years that not all consulates in the U.S. will accept "retirement" as a reason for issuing a single O visa. Also some may see the address of the O.P. and suggest he use the embassy as he is in Virginia, bordering D.C. So that is why I suggest he contact consulates first and make sure it's worth the bother to apply there for a single entry O for his reason.

[wayned]

The honorary Consulate in Portland has issued Non-O visas for retirement planning purposes in the past, Houston will referer the individual to D.C. Here's the info on portland, everything can be done by courier service.

Visa application porcedures, Portland Oregon.doc

[WaywardWind]

One additional bit of information if you decide to forego applying in the US, and apply for the extension after arrival.

The financial requirement of 800,000 THB ($26,000+/-) can be satisfied by that amount in a Thai Bank, that amount in regular income, or a combination of the two which totals 800K THB or more. If you do have any regular income payments less than 800K THB per year, and obtain the notarized income affidavit from the US Consulate in Bangkok (the consulate will not ask for proof, but you might want to have it in case the Immigration folks here do ask when you apply - they did not ask me for any proof), the two month seeding requirement does not apply.

I just went through the process here at the Jomtien office, and it could not have been more straightforward. Came in on a tourist visa in mid-December, complete the income affidavit and had it notarized at the Consulate, opened a Bangkok Bank account in early January, applied the following week, and had my one year extension by mid-January. They add the one year on top of the 90 days, so my extension is valid through April 2013.

[cannonball]

The honorary Consulate in Portland has issued Non-O visas for retirement planning purposes in the past, Houston will referer the individual to D.C. Here's the info on portland, everything can be done by courier service.

Visa application porcedures, Portland Oregon.doc

Thanks for this information, it will be quite helpful when I apply for my Non-O Visa.

CB

[paulswebb]

In my case immigration did not ask about criminal record, but were keen on everything else, especially a letter from the bank confirming what my statement said.

[anteric]

(pension)i have no criminel record paper and no 800000THB on the bank an i get my 1 year stay with no problem

[Jingthing]

For applications for retirement extensions in Thailand at Thai immigration offices, there is NO requirement for a police report or health form. For applications for O-A visas from home countries, both ARE required. This is why the advice here has been the OP should not apply for an O-A.