Where For Easy Citizenship And Land Ownership

[samran]

I don't think there's any Asian country were it's "easy" try the Dominican Republic if your just looking for a passport, quick but expensive.

Well you need to "think" about having a look at Malaysia.

By the sounds of it, you too need to 'think' about looking at the Malaysian regs before you advise others....

It is true there is a retirement scheme which is generous in terms of benefits, however the qualifications would leave the average Thai based sexpat howling with fury and displeasure iif Thailand ever decided to implement similar rules as many would simply not qualify.

And if you wanted to naturalise, well, Malaysia doesn't even recognise the concept of dual nationality, let alone allow it (unlike Thailand which has no issue with it) so you'd be stuck with a passport in a country where legally sanctioned discrimination based on race is part and parcel of the national settlement.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Malaysia is a country where racism is written into its Constitution. It always makes me chuckle when disgruntled Thailand expats attempt to sing its praises. They won't even let Israelis set foot upon their soil!

[bangkokburning]

>sigh<

[NewlyMintedThai]

And when you do find Gringo Paradise, don't forget to send us a postcard to let us know if the grass over there really is an eye-blinding shade of emerald green. OK, pendejo?

[lovetotravel]

If you are looking for a place that will 'accept' you -in the developing world- I think Latin America it is.

You will have to marry though and citizenship follows in 3 years or so.

Then you can do anything you want.

Don't waste your time anywhere in Asia unless you are there for the experience(short term) or an older retiree.

If you are looking for a place to start a new life, forget Asia.They don't need us here and the visa regulations reflect that.

Don't forget that our 'tribe' has stayed behind after the end of colonization in LatAm and has mixed fairly well with the population.

So we are not oddities there as we are in Asia.

Obviously regulations differ slightly between differnt countries in LatAm but we are generally welcomed there....find the one that suits you better.

..and 'pack tonight'.

Ridiculous. I've spent a lot of time in CA and SA. We are more welcomed here than there. Crime is lower, food is better and the women look great even after turning 30. Asia is growing faster, job opportunities are better, cost of living is cheaper, etc.

Costa Rica is over run with gringos. As are most CA countries. Nicaragua? Forget it. Horrible place. No city like Bangkok anywhere in CA. SA? Well, BA is pretty darn near. Visa? Very difficult. I could go on, but won't.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Duplicitous locals? What about duplicitous expats?

[ozzydom]

Australia.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Australia.

I think the OP is probably looking for an alternative to the West, not a sideways move.

[crille30]

I been looking a lot on Dominican republic ,its not bad, for permanent residency.I have all information from one of the better lawyer there .It will cost you around 4-5000us,sure you can find cheaper.different steps you have to do.Not need to sing any national song or speak the langues,Take all about 4-5years.But of course you stay during this time,so not bad.Then you get a passport and can do all but not be the president.Any one want info send me Pm.Pretty easy paper work.

Edited April 24, 2012 by crille30

[lovetotravel]

I seen some pics of their beaches. Incredibly beautiful!!

[crille30]

Yes it looks nice. It’s one of my backup places if here getting to many problems in politics here, and if it will affect the expacts to much negativ.But Thailand is hard to beat, great food, good infrastucture,electric works, internet its good, hospital etc.Thailand have it all. They only thing is that you never can relax when it comes to the visa. You can be married and 3kids and lived here 20years they still don’t give a shit and you can never really call it home. Still go to immigration and bend over and hope you get all the papers in order and that they didn’t change this time. But don’t get me wrong, love Thailand but shit I’m getting old and don’t want to have to leave but I don’t want to keep worry about my visa until I die. But its take or leave it.At the moment I take it.Have still some more Vaseline .

[craigt3365]

Yes it looks nice. It’s one of my backup places if here getting to many problems in politics here, and if it will affect the expacts to much negativ.But Thailand is hard to beat, great food, good infrastucture,electric works, internet its good, hospital etc.Thailand have it all. They only thing is that you never can relax when it comes to the visa. You can be married and 3kids and lived here 20years they still don’t give a shit and you can never really call it home. Still go to immigration and bend over and hope you get all the papers in order and that they didn’t change this time. But don’t get me wrong, love Thailand but shit I’m getting old and don’t want to have to leave but I don’t want to keep worry about my visa until I die. But its take or leave it.At the moment I take it.Have still some more Vaseline .

I've not had a problem with immigration yet. Bring the proper paperwork and it's a breeze. 90 day report? Doesn't bother me at all. Literally takes 5 minutes. Once a year renewal takes a few hours. Easy.

PS Your attitude has a lot to do with it. Be polite, dress polite and they'll treat you with respect. I'm not saying you don't....just saying I've seen some real nasty looking characters there...beer in hand at 8am.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Yes it looks nice. It’s one of my backup places if here getting to many problems in politics here, and if it will affect the expacts to much negativ.But Thailand is hard to beat, great food, good infrastucture,electric works, internet its good, hospital etc.Thailand have it all. They only thing is that you never can relax when it comes to the visa. You can be married and 3kids and lived here 20years they still don’t give a shit and you can never really call it home. Still go to immigration and bend over and hope you get all the papers in order and that they didn’t change this time. But don’t get me wrong, love Thailand but shit I’m getting old and don’t want to have to leave but I don’t want to keep worry about my visa until I die. But its take or leave it.At the moment I take it.Have still some more Vaseline .

There is also an established track to PR and citizenship, which you can complete in 10-12 years if you start planning for it from the beginning. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. I'm one who has done it.

[Sateev]

I've not had a problem with immigration yet. Bring the proper paperwork and it's a breeze. 90 day report? Doesn't bother me at all. Literally takes 5 minutes. Once a year renewal takes a few hours. Easy.

PS Your attitude has a lot to do with it. Be polite, dress polite and they'll treat you with respect. I'm not saying you don't....just saying I've seen some real nasty looking characters there...beer in hand at 8am.

Sorry, but this is an old, tired refrain.

If you fit into the Thai cookie-cutter, and have it made-in-the-shade, more power to you. But the sickeningly tired old mantra that if you "smile and dress nice, all will be peachy", doesn't apply to everyone, including many who have just as much right to be here as you seem to think you do.

Thai laws are written to be ambiguous, and to allow randomness in their application. Examples include the immigration officer who doesn't like Asian, but non-Thai, wives of Western expats, territorial pissing matches between the MFA, who are responsible for visas, and the Royal Thai Immigration Police, who get to decide whether or not you (or your wife) get an extension., and regulation enforcement that changes without notice.

It's all fine to say, "Well, I have my 800K in a Thai bank account, and a list of documents that I prepare every year, and I never have any problem, blah, blah, blah...", but there are many whose circumstances vary, for whom it is not so simple. Don't deny their plight. Except for luck, you are no more deserving of an extension, or of a lack of harassment, than they are.

Cavalier is NOT becoming.

[lovetotravel]

I've not had a problem with immigration yet. Bring the proper paperwork and it's a breeze. 90 day report? Doesn't bother me at all. Literally takes 5 minutes. Once a year renewal takes a few hours. Easy.

PS Your attitude has a lot to do with it. Be polite, dress polite and they'll treat you with respect. I'm not saying you don't....just saying I've seen some real nasty looking characters there...beer in hand at 8am.

Sorry, but this is an old, tired refrain.

If you fit into the Thai cookie-cutter, and have it made-in-the-shade, more power to you. But the sickeningly tired old mantra that if you "smile and dress nice, all will be peachy", doesn't apply to everyone, including many who have just as much right to be here as you seem to think you do.

Thai laws are written to be ambiguous, and to allow randomness in their application. Examples include the immigration officer who doesn't like Asian, but non-Thai, wives of Western expats, territorial pissing matches between the MFA, who are responsible for visas, and the Royal Thai Immigration Police, who get to decide whether or not you (or your wife) get an extension., and regulation enforcement that changes without notice.

It's all fine to say, "Well, I have my 800K in a Thai bank account, and a list of documents that I prepare every year, and I never have any problem, blah, blah, blah...", but there are many whose circumstances vary, for whom it is not so simple. Don't deny their plight. Except for luck, you are no more deserving of an extension, or of a lack of harassment, than they are.

Cavalier is NOT becoming.

I think you'll find the silent majority don't have problems with immigration. It's the vocal minority who do. But it is a government organization. And no matter what country, they can be a challenge to deal with.

Your post is a bit harsh.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I've not had a problem with immigration yet. Bring the proper paperwork and it's a breeze. 90 day report? Doesn't bother me at all. Literally takes 5 minutes. Once a year renewal takes a few hours. Easy.

PS Your attitude has a lot to do with it. Be polite, dress polite and they'll treat you with respect. I'm not saying you don't....just saying I've seen some real nasty looking characters there...beer in hand at 8am.

Sorry, but this is an old, tired refrain.

If you fit into the Thai cookie-cutter, and have it made-in-the-shade, more power to you. But the sickeningly tired old mantra that if you "smile and dress nice, all will be peachy", doesn't apply to everyone, including many who have just as much right to be here as you seem to think you do.

Thai laws are written to be ambiguous, and to allow randomness in their application. Examples include the immigration officer who doesn't like Asian, but non-Thai, wives of Western expats, territorial pissing matches between the MFA, who are responsible for visas, and the Royal Thai Immigration Police, who get to decide whether or not you (or your wife) get an extension., and regulation enforcement that changes without notice.

It's all fine to say, "Well, I have my 800K in a Thai bank account, and a list of documents that I prepare every year, and I never have any problem, blah, blah, blah...", but there are many whose circumstances vary, for whom it is not so simple. Don't deny their plight. Except for luck, you are no more deserving of an extension, or of a lack of harassment, than they are.

Cavalier is NOT becoming.

Your first mistake is invoking "rights".

No one has a "right" to stay in any country that is not his own. You have the PRIVILEGE, but only if you meet requirements set by that government.

This is the correct attitude with which to view things.

[Sateev]

I've not had a problem with immigration yet. Bring the proper paperwork and it's a breeze. 90 day report? Doesn't bother me at all. Literally takes 5 minutes. Once a year renewal takes a few hours. Easy.

PS Your attitude has a lot to do with it. Be polite, dress polite and they'll treat you with respect. I'm not saying you don't....just saying I've seen some real nasty looking characters there...beer in hand at 8am.

Sorry, but this is an old, tired refrain.

If you fit into the Thai cookie-cutter, and have it made-in-the-shade, more power to you. But the sickeningly tired old mantra that if you "smile and dress nice, all will be peachy", doesn't apply to everyone, including many who have just as much right to be here as you seem to think you do.

Thai laws are written to be ambiguous, and to allow randomness in their application. Examples include the immigration officer who doesn't like Asian, but non-Thai, wives of Western expats, territorial pissing matches between the MFA, who are responsible for visas, and the Royal Thai Immigration Police, who get to decide whether or not you (or your wife) get an extension., and regulation enforcement that changes without notice.

It's all fine to say, "Well, I have my 800K in a Thai bank account, and a list of documents that I prepare every year, and I never have any problem, blah, blah, blah...", but there are many whose circumstances vary, for whom it is not so simple. Don't deny their plight. Except for luck, you are no more deserving of an extension, or of a lack of harassment, than they are.

Cavalier is NOT becoming.

Your first mistake is invoking "rights".

No one has a "right" to stay in any country that is not his own. You have the PRIVILEGE, but only if you meet requirements set by that government.

This is the correct attitude with which to view things.

Reading is fundamental.

I said, ", as much right... as you seem to think you do." It doesn't imply that I think any foreigner has a right, per se, to be here, although, some might argue that laws confer rights, and the law DOES allow us to be here.

My real objection is a mere variation on what gets posted here daily: the "Let them eat cake" attitude of those who think that their grooming and polite banter with Immigration officers is the entire reason for their success in getting serial extensions. Denying others', unfortunately negative, experiences with Immigration is rude, and dismissive, and the implication is that they must be doing something wrong to cause their own misfortune. This is utter nonsense, insulting, and speaks to the narcissistic attitudes of those who constantly regurgitate the argument.

As for it being a vocal minority who have problems - that is a bit hard to prove, unless you consider unfounded, personally self-serving hunches proof.

Judging by the number of people who are fed up (the existence of this thread being an indicator), I'd say it might be moving the other direction.

'nuff said.

[NewlyMintedThai]

My point is that no foreigner has any right at all.

[lovetotravel]

My point is that no foreigner has any right at all.

As a foreigner in any country. If you can't fit into their square holes, you'll have a problem. Like me trying to get a long term visa to Europe. Very difficult. I'm a round peg trying to fit into a square hole. Same as many here. No different.

Sateev: we're just having discussions here. No reason to bash fellow members.

[oldsailor35]

I have never looked into it, but have a mate living in Malaysia and he tells me that they are very helpful and in fact encourage you to live there. We all know that this is the opposite to the way the Thai's behave.

Don't claim to speak for "all" of us. Many of us feel that the Thai could hardly be more welcoming of the foreigners in their midst -- many of whom, let's face it, are somewhat less than salubrious.

I don't have to speak for all of you. Even 'blind freddie' can see what Thailand thinks of its foreigners.

" Take all you can get and give them nothing" all Thai governments are the same.

[samran]

I have never looked into it, but have a mate living in Malaysia and he tells me that they are very helpful and in fact encourage you to live there. We all know that this is the opposite to the way the Thai's behave.

Don't claim to speak for "all" of us. Many of us feel that the Thai could hardly be more welcoming of the foreigners in their midst -- many of whom, let's face it, are somewhat less than salubrious.

I don't have to speak for all of you. Even 'blind freddie' can see what Thailand thinks of its foreigners.

" Take all you can get and give them nothing" all Thai governments are the same.

fascinated at what you think you have taken from you, and what you expect in return?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Some people don't seem to appreciate how good they've got it.

[crille30]

Yes it looks nice. It’s one of my backup places if here getting to many problems in politics here, and if it will affect the expacts to much negativ.But Thailand is hard to beat, great food, good infrastucture,electric works, internet its good, hospital etc.Thailand have it all. They only thing is that you never can relax when it comes to the visa. You can be married and 3kids and lived here 20years they still don’t give a shit and you can never really call it home. Still go to immigration and bend over and hope you get all the papers in order and that they didn’t change this time. But don’t get me wrong, love Thailand but shit I’m getting old and don’t want to have to leave but I don’t want to keep worry about my visa until I die. But its take or leave it.At the moment I take it.Have still some more Vaseline .

I've not had a problem with immigration yet. Bring the proper paperwork and it's a breeze. 90 day report? Doesn't bother me at all. Literally takes 5 minutes. Once a year renewal takes a few hours. Easy.

PS Your attitude has a lot to do with it. Be polite, dress polite and they'll treat you with respect. I'm not saying you don't....just saying I've seen some real nasty looking characters there...beer in hand at 8am.

I totaly agree its about attitude in many cases.I some times wonder why some people are so angry?Did the ex wife take the car and the house?why this anger from some people?I would reaely leave if I hate this so much?My point is only that exempel after 20years I still have to go to the immigration and hoping that the rules didnt change to much,for exempale that you need 3milion in bank to get your retirement visa.But hey, this is the way it is and I love this place.Nothing is perfect but this is as close I found.Love it.thats why Iam here,why else would i stay??

Edited April 29, 2012 by crille30

[NewlyMintedThai]

Good question! But if you ask it of others they tend to go all postal on you.

[Arkady]

In Hong kong and Singapore you can buy property quite freely, although there are certain restrictions on landed property in Singapore. It is also fairly easy to become a permanent resident in HK after 7 years and in Singapore, although the latter is more subjective. Malaysia has it retirement scheme which gives you 10 year renewable visas and the right to own residential land and import a car and household effects duty free. Vietnam and Cambodia allow long leases on land (50-70 years) but not ownership to foreigners. Vietnam doesn't allow freehold ownership for Vietnamese either. in the Philippines you can fairly easily get a long term retirement visa but cannot own land. I was told a few years ago that Cambodian citizenship could be obtained through paying a bribe of US$30,000. I don't know the situation today but I imagine the price will have gone up. In Thailand you can easily get a one year renewable retirement visa, subject to changeable conditions and can rent land for 30 years with somewhat limited rights since landlord and tenant law is not developed in Thailand and remains biased in favour of the landlord. Options to renew beyond 30 years sold by wide boy realtors have no legal basis and are unenforceable.

Panama, Belize, Nicaragua, St Kitts & Nevis, Montenegro and the Bahamas seem to be countries that sell citizenship for a fixed fee to virtually all comers. Some Central American countries, including Nicaragua, sell diplomatic passports and even roving ambassadorships on a sliding price scale, although these diplomatic passports are not accepted by developed countries which generally only stamp in diplomats accredited to their country on diplomatic passports. No doubt there are others that sell citizenship but not in Asia as far as I know with the exception of unofficial sales of Cambodian citizenship mentioned above.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Arkady

[TommoPhysicist]

Some people don't seem to appreciate how good they've got it.

I sort of agree with you

[TommoPhysicist]

Some people don't seem to appreciate how good they've got it.

fascinated at what you think you have taken from you, and what you expect in return?

I sort of agree with you both.

I look at it this way, Thailand owes me nothing, and in return I owe Thailand nothing, I accept I am only a temporary visitor here.

As a guest I have no rights in Thailand and so I must also accept no obligations and may leave the country at any time and not look back.

I owe my Thai wife no loyalty and my Thai children no responsibility, everything I do here is temporary.

I think that's fair, and feel more foreigners in Thailand should accept things like they are.

Edited May 9, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[brit1984]

Some people don't seem to appreciate how good they've got it.

fascinated at what you think you have taken from you, and what you expect in return?

I sort of agree with you both.

I look at it this way, Thailand owes me nothing, and in return I owe Thailand nothing, I accept I am only a temporary visitor here.

As a guest I have no rights in Thailand and so I must also accept no obligations and may leave the country at any time and not look back.

I owe my Thai wife no loyalty and my Thai children no responsibility, everything I do here is temporary.

I think that's fair, and feel more foreigners in Thailand should accept things like they are.

Actually you owe your wife 100% loyalty by the definition of marriage

Leaving that technical point aside, I really hope you are joking

I find it hard to believe that any man could show such total disregard for their kid's mother

[Penefattore]

Some people don't seem to appreciate how good they've got it.

fascinated at what you think you have taken from you, and what you expect in return?

I sort of agree with you both.

I look at it this way, Thailand owes me nothing, and in return I owe Thailand nothing, I accept I am only a temporary visitor here.

As a guest I have no rights in Thailand and so I must also accept no obligations and may leave the country at any time and not look back.

I owe my Thai wife no loyalty and my Thai children no responsibility, everything I do here is temporary.

I think that's fair, and feel more foreigners in Thailand should accept things like they are.

That's speaking my friend.

Let's give the monkeys a taste of their own medicine.