Trayvon Martin Shooter Released On $150,000 Bond

[tlansford]

About the nauseating and transparent right wing sympathy for Zimmerman because of the GUN RIGHTS connection:

Personally I think it is more of a racial issue.

Having been involved in Gun Rights for many years ( from a sporting/competitive standpoint )

I have always found the NRA etc. has always wanted tougher laws for crimes committed with a firearm.

Note the difference being not infringe on rights to own but stricter on crimes committed with a firearm.

Freedoms & responsibility go hand in hand....as they should

They have long been strong in their opinion of throw away the key when one has committed a crime with a firearm.

Yes it is obvious there are strong opinions in this case. Whether they be right/left wing propelled or racial I do not know.

Personally I do agree it was handled wrong from the start & all the back pedaling in the world will not fix it now.

The police botched it initially & a fair investigation of the crime scene IMHO cannot be carried out now.

This will not end well I think but again I tend to see it as racially motivated both in event & aftermath.

It will be interesting to watch & I am grateful that at least an attempt to ascertain guilt is now being made.

But again it is after the fact & sadly will never be as complete.

Many things in this story do not add up. It will be a tough one for judge & jury to suss out.

gun rights for sport / competition makes a lot of sense. And people involved in those activities probably do not have a problem with stronger gun-control measures like waiting periods, background checks, and restrictions on carrying concealed weapons.

[GiHadOrange]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

Does that mean Zimmerman suffers from a mental disease too and needs rather medical help and care given by sensible people then being called a killer and racist and be prosecuted?

[Jingthing]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

Does that mean Zimmerman suffers from a mental disease too and needs rather medical help and care given by sensible people then being called a killer and racist and be prosecuted?

He is not being tried for racism. He is being tried for second degree murder. He has the option of using the insanity defense. Nice try.

[GiHadOrange]

He will not do that. Insane people seldom admit that they are insane.

And it was a defense argument you suggested.

And how you would treat and cure all the other people with that mental disease?

[Jingthing]

He will not do that. Insane people seldom admit that they are insane.

And it was a defense argument you suggested.

And how you would treat and cure all the other people with that mental disease?

Your post is bizarre and unworthy of a response. Please don't bother addressing your absurd questions directly at me. Cheers. Edited May 16, 2012 by Jingthing

[GiHadOrange]

Bizarre (or at least not so sensible) is:

to describe the right that civilians be able to legally carry guns as a mental disease.

[chuckd]

He is not being tried for racism. He is being tried for second degree murder. He has the option of using the insanity defense. Nice try.

As long as Obama controls Erik Holder and the Justice Department there is always the possibility of charges based on racism.

_____________________________________________________

Updated: 6:31 p.m. Monday, May 14, 2012 | Posted: 4:47 p.m. Monday, May 14, 2012

FBI may charge George Zimmerman with hate crime

SANFORD, Fla.

WFTV has learned charges against George Zimmerman could be getting more serious.

State prosecutors said Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, profiled and stalked 17-year-old Trayvon Martin before killing him, so the FBI is now looking into charging him with a hate crime.

http://www.wftv.com/...te-crime/nN5pR/

[Jingthing]

Well, if they think they have a case.

I still wouldn't be surprised if this overcharging is just a ploy to get a plea bargain.

[koheesti]

Well, if they think they have a case.

I still wouldn't be surprised if this overcharging is just a ploy to get a plea bargain.

Why would the prosecutor need a ploy for a plea bargain - unless they think they have a weak case.

[Jingthing]

Well, if they think they have a case.

I still wouldn't be surprised if this overcharging is just a ploy to get a plea bargain.

Why would the prosecutor need a ploy for a plea bargain - unless they think they have a weak case.

I don't know. I'm sure there are many reasons that different cases go to plea bargain. I'm not saying this one will but it would be an elegant enough resolution.

Also my understanding from reading about this case is that a possible (probable?) scenario is that it does go to trial and they don't convict on 2nd degree murder but do convict on manslaughter.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Jingthing

[Scott]

We do have posters with some legal expertise, but I don't know if there are any following this thread.

Sometimes a more serious charge will be more difficult to prove. A lesser charge may be easier to prove. Zimmerman, and probably his lawyer, know the extent of his culpability in the situation. If Zimmerman wants to fight for a full acquittal, he will not plea bargain. The state will have to decide what charge is the most likely to stick and get a guilty verdict.

It's a reasonably high profile case, so a lot of interest. Careers will be made and lost. Books will be written and maybe a made for TV movie. Somewhere behind this there are real people who will continue to feel the pain and suffering this has caused, both for Trayvon and Zimmerman's families.

[chuckd]

Here's the latest from Trayvon's autopsy report. I haven't seen much circumstantial evidence to support the prosecutions case so far.

____________________________________________________

Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles

SANFORD, Fla. — WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

http://www.wftv.com/...juries-h/nN6gs/

[Jingthing]

Not really. You're not considering there is likely strong evidence that Martin was PROVOKED.

A man walking around his neighborhood carrying a lethal weapon (against the rules of his role), acting the vigilante, can hardly be characterized as an innocent in this matter.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

Not really. You're not considering there is likely strong evidence that Martin was PROVOKED.

A man walking around his neighborhood carrying a lethal weapon (against the rules of his role), acting the vigilante, can hardly be characterized as an innocent in this matter.

Zimmerman was where he was supposed to be. Trayvon was the one who was out of place, in the mind of the authorized neighborhood watch commander Zimmerman. The weapon was not authorized according to the rules of the neighborhood, but Zimmerman was authorized to carry it legally.

I doubt seriously if Trayvon knew Zimmerman had a weapon or he might not have been as aggressive as it seems he might have been. Even somebody with a seven inch height advantage should be a little circumspect at times.

I have seen nothing to indicate Zimmerman was acting like a vigilante or that he provoked Trayvon. Where did I miss that?

[Jingthing]

Martin had no history of violence. Zimmerman did. Nobody seriously believes Martin was out that night with the intention of attacking a man. It is OBVIOUS Martin was provoked.

[chuckd]

Martin had no history of violence. Zimmerman did. Nobody seriously believes Martin was out that night with the intention of attacking a man. It is OBVIOUS Martin was provoked.

To some, perhaps. To others, perhaps not.

[tlansford]

Martin had no history of violence. Zimmerman did. Nobody seriously believes Martin was out that night with the intention of attacking a man. It is OBVIOUS Martin was provoked.

To some, perhaps. To others, perhaps not.

And to others it seems obvious that Martin attacked Zimmerman...

But we are all blind from our own certainty, aren't we?

Look, we all know that Zimmerman shot Martin. We know that he followed him when he was told not to by the police. We know he will go to trial and there is a good chance that he'll be convicted.

But why not just wait for the verdict?

[koheesti]

Martin had no history of violence. Zimmerman did. Nobody seriously believes Martin was out that night with the intention of attacking a man. It is OBVIOUS Martin was provoked.

To some, perhaps. To others, perhaps not.

That "history of violence" routine is a joke. If I can remember back 2-3 pages of this thread, once he shoved an undercover officer trying to arrest a friend under 21 for drinking alcohol and the other time was his girlfriend files a domestic abuse against him, then he turned around and filed one against her and the judge accepted both. HARDLY a sign that he is just waiting to shoot some poor innocent boy just because he's carrying Skittles and Nestea. Geez.

[koheesti]

Martin had no history of violence. Zimmerman did. Nobody seriously believes Martin was out that night with the intention of attacking a man. It is OBVIOUS Martin was provoked.

To some, perhaps. To others, perhaps not.

And to others it seems obvious that Martin attacked Zimmerman...

But we are all blind from our own certainty, aren't we?

Look, we all know that Zimmerman shot Martin. We know that he followed him when he was told not to by the police. We know he will go to trial and there is a good chance that he'll be convicted.

But why not just wait for the verdict?

Because half of us will have died of old age by the time this case makes it through the US Court system.

And, a helluva lot happened between the part where Zimmerman was told not to follow him anymore and the part where Martin got shot.

[Jingthing]

Never said he was out to shoot a boy. Don't put words in people's mouths. But it's clear he followed him and its clear what the end result was. One wonders if he would have been as provocative if he hadn't been packing. If he gets off the charges, do you reckon any neighborhood group will want his services again?

[koheesti]

Never said he was out to shoot a boy. Don't put words in people's mouths. But it's clear he followed him and its clear what the end result was. One wonders if he would have been as provocative if he hadn't been packing. If he gets off the charges, do you reckon any neighborhood group will want his services again?

Maybe a NW program would want his services. Thieves would certainly think twice about messing with his neighborhood. "Hey, they got that white-hispanic guy who shoots people and doesn't even get arrested! Let's go rob another neighborhood!"

Edited May 16, 2012 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

It's clear (and sickening really) that Zimmerman has become kind of a folk hero to a certain element. It's no wonder this case remains newsworthy.

Anyway, the question of who was the aggressor will be vital in determining the outcome of the case. To be clear, I am totally OK if Mr. Z is acquitted if the evidence points in the direction.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/reports-on-trayvon-martin-and-george-zimmerman-dont-answer-one-key-question/2012/05/16/gIQAoLf2TU_blog.html

And to those who would leap on the Zimmerman medical report to exonerate him, keep in mind that the prosecutor had this information and still charged the killer with second-degree murder.

Neither Zimmerman’s medical report nor Trayvon’s autopsy gets us any closer to resolution of the one question that matters. As ABC News legal analyst Dan Abrams put it last night, “Who was the aggressor?” Finding Zimmerman guilty (or not) of the murder charge rests on a jury answering this vital question.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Anyway, the question of who was the aggressor will be vital in determining the outcome of the case. To be clear, I am totally OK if Mr. Z is acquitted if the evidence points in the direction.

http://www.washingto...Lf2TU_blog.html

And to those who would leap on the Zimmerman medical report to exonerate him, keep in mind that the prosecutor had this information and still charged the killer with second-degree murder.

They kind of leave out the part where Zimmerman's claims of self defense were considered credible enough to release him with no charges until the whole thing got so political.

[koheesti]

It's clear (and sickening really) that Zimmerman has become kind of a folk hero to a certain element. It's no wonder this case remains newsworthy.

If true blame the media and the usual race-baiting suspects. I doubt Zimmerman has any supporters for shooting someone and not getting investigated over it immediately. I'd call it common sense that there should have been an investigation whenever anyone is shot and killed.

His support comes from the over-the-top, race-baiting crap the likes of Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and at least one notable poster here have been extremely guilty of on an almost daily basis. It's bullshit and people should be called on it. They think that if they shout crazy things, make it a "white vs black" issue, make it a "ex-con thug vs sweet 14-yr old boy with Skittles" issue then JUSTICE!! will be served. These baiters are ignorant and the result of their BS outrage is that racial violence is spiking across the country, one racist group is allowed to put out a bounty on a citizen, another racist group arms themselves to the teeth and moves in to "protect their own". Where's it going to end?

After the trial we can guess what will happen if Zimmerman isn't sent to prison. Being found guilty with probation won't cut it after all the "outrage" that has been cultivated. We could go through something similar as to what happened after the Rodney King Police trial. People will get hurt, some will die, property will certainly be destroyed and the blame will lay squarely on the race baiters.

Edited May 17, 2012 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

No, it is crystal clear that Zimmerman has MAN Y supporters! Please don't be disingenuous. He opens a website and the money flows in. Please deal in FACTS here, OK?

[Jingthing]

Anyway, the question of who was the aggressor will be vital in determining the outcome of the case. To be clear, I am totally OK if Mr. Z is acquitted if the evidence points in the direction.

http://www.washingto...Lf2TU_blog.html

And to those who would leap on the Zimmerman medical report to exonerate him, keep in mind that the prosecutor had this information and still charged the killer with second-degree murder.

They kind of leave out the part where Zimmerman's claims of self defense were considered credible enough to release him with no charges until the whole thing got so political.

They don't leave it out. That is implied and well known already. Now that we do know what we DON'T know, the police work on the night of the crime seems even more suspect. This case needed to go further. It did. That is good. The result is unknown.

[Ulysses G.]

You mean that Zimmerman had the hell beaten out of him? That makes it look more like the police on the scene might have had it right in the first place. It is looking a lot more possible that Zimmerman killed Trayvon in self-defence.

[Jingthing]

You mean that Zimmerman had the hell beaten out of him? That makes it look more like the police on the scene might have had it right in the first place. It is looking a lot more possible that Zimmerman killed Trayvon in self-defence.

We'll see at trial.

This is going in circles:

And to those who would leap on the Zimmerman medical report to exonerate him, keep in mind that the prosecutor had this information and still charged the killer with second-degree murder.

Also, let's put this silly assertion that Zimmerman doesn't have lots of overt supporters to bed once and for all, OK?

http://www.huffingto..._n_1406071.html

George Zimmerman, the Florida man who told police he shot and killed unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in self-defense, has become a flashpoint figure for those calling for Zimmerman's arrest. But he’s also rallied a legion of supporters of his own.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I do not recall anyone saying that he does not have supporters. Only you have mentioned this red herring.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[koheesti]

No, it is crystal clear that Zimmerman has MAN Y supporters! Please don't be disingenuous. He opens a website and the money flows in. Please deal in FACTS here, OK?

You are the one being disingenuous. I even made the original sentence about supporters in bold red text and you still left out the important part.

I doubt Zimmerman has any supporters for shooting someone and not getting investigated over it immediately.

People support him today not because he shot and killed someone and got away with it. They support him because he himself is a victim of a race-baiting witch hunt by the usual suspects and their useful idiots.

Edited May 17, 2012 by koheesti