School Scrambling Due To 10,000 Baht Subsidy

[LecheHombre]

OK, I'm not a big follower of the news so I missed hearing about the *unapproved link edited out* . Until yesterday, when my Thai boss called me up and asked me to come in to the school and fill in some paperwork. He mentioned that it was about some new program from some agency (NOT the TCT apparently?) that would provide an incentive bonus to schools that hire teachers from England, USA, or Australia.

I hadn't heard anything about it, so I went in to pick up the paperwork. I didn't have my passport on me, so I had to take the form back home with me to get some of the necessary info. While I was away, I did some google research and found that link above, plus some posts on other forums (and one semi-related post here with no responses). I called a friend and he said that he had called the agency in question and they said that at least some of the funds are "supposed" to be distributed to the teachers themselves, not just going to the school (read: the director buying a new Mercedes).

When I phoned my boss and asked (roundabout) questions about whether or not this would alter my salary, I was of course told no. However, he also said that the paperwork forms need to be filed by the 27th of April.

My school currently wants to employ 5 foreign teachers (same as last year), with only 2 currently having signed contracts -- me and one other guy. I'm American, but the other guy is from another country that apparently doesn't qualify as "native" English-speaking although his English is perfectly suitable for teaching, just a slight accent.

Anyway, the school is scrambling pretty heavily (what else is new?) to try to get my paperwork in so they will at least get one application of the subsidy. There is no way in hell that they can find and hire 1, let alone 3 foreigners from England/US/AUS within the next couple of days. Perhaps the school is now kicking themselves over firing the 2 Brits we had last year, plus another American who left Thailand (of his own accord).

My first reaction to this situation I've found myself in was to "play hardball". The school wants that 10,000 baht per month, and I'm holding the cards for once. I was thinking that I should say "sure, I'll fill in and return the form -- IF my salary goes up by 5,000 baht per month". If they say no, my dog eats my homework, and nobody gets 5,000 or 10,000 baht extra; but I'm still under contract for my usual salary, same as the other guy that isn't from one of the qualifying countries.

I've now basically realized that is the American me talking, and no good can come of actually doing that here. Although my school claims that they are very pleased with my teaching, the reality is that I'm a faceless farang/whitey cog in the machine that is relatively easily replacable by some other cog. So, there is basically no way I'll see an extra dime from this "incentive" subsidy, and if I raise even the slightest stink about it I'll be kicked to the curb at the end of my contract (if not before) and replaced by someone who doesn't ask questions.

In light of that, I'm pretty much just thinking that I need to sign and return the form and say not another dam_n word about it.

I guess I'm posting this here to see if others have come to the same conclusion, and just to vent. Also curious about whether or not the school is even required to have us fill in these forms ourselves -- my Thai-derr sense tells me they should go for confrontation-avoidance mode, fill in the info themselves, and send the forms in without even saying a word to us.

Funny how this "incentive" program seems to have had pretty much the exact opposite effect on me...

Edited April 25, 2012 by Scott
link edited out

[Scott]

I have edited the OP. Please be aware of this rule:

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them. ....

[LecheHombre]

Whoops, sorry about the link.

I hope it is OK if I suggest that anyone interested that hasn't heard about this (like me until a couple days ago) try a google search for something like "thai teacher subsidy", and perhaps they can find more information.

(After re-reading the rules I believe I'm in the clear with the above -- if not this post/thread can be deleted at your discretion and I'll shut up)

[Scott]

A google search is fine.

We have a teacher leaving our school and was offered a job in a village--he wants to be near his family. I am guessing their sudden interest has something to do with the 10,000 baht subsidy.

By the way they are only offering him 10,000 baht.

[chonabot]

Same as here - Vice -Head came to my house 2 days ago at 730am

Didn't mention the 10k subsidy but I rasied the issue and she replied that this was the reason.

My (Thai) wife was all smiles later in the day and wondered why I wasn't happy with the 10k raise.

I just laughed and reminded her ( like she does me , often -" we are in Thailand babe ... there is no raise "

[LecheHombre]

You caught on quicker than I did -- I had sorta the opposite process. While I was still holding on to the paperwork I got a followup call from the school and managed to stall for time for another day (I was out of town). My Thai wife was with me when I got the call and could tell I was ...vexed... and she gave me the evil eye (you know that look of disapproval you get any time you feel like challenging the system in any way? -- that's the one) when I told her I was thinking about just holding on to the form unless they played ball and cut me in. After letting me cool down she managed to help me come to the conclusion that that wasn't going to fly.

I am happy at my school and generally think that they treat us (foreign teachers) better than most places, including the last place I worked here. So I guess I can just let it go.

However, the more I think about it the weirder it seems that we are involved in the application process at all. The form didn't ask for any information that the school didn't already have about me, and I'm sure that this will cause some confrontations between school and foreigners. In confrontation-averse Thailand, again I'd just assume that they would want to keep us out of the loop on this one.

[TongueThaied]

The subsidy for non-English speakers is 5,000 baht. You should play hardball or you'll get nothing. That's business, and it is no different here than anywhere else. I'll tell you, the Fillipino teachers in my area have been playing schools off against each other and getting raises. If you don't you'll never see a one baht increase.

Here's the thing about Thai culture. Villagers are easy going and are the mai bpen rai crowd you always hear about. But if you think the family business cartels in Bangkok -- the ones that run the country and fix all the prices -- don't play hardball in their business dealings, then you are missing something. Now, that said, attitude is different here. You don't raise you voice and scream or make threats, but negotiating for a raise is perfectly acceptable and if they want you to fill out paperwork so they can get money for YOUR work, why on earth would you think it is unreasonable to get part of it? If they don't renew you contract, so what? English teaching jobs are a dime a dozen, and there will be even more now, which should drive up wages. Don't be a sap.

[LecheHombre]

I see your point, but I'm married and living in a town not a whole lot larger than a "village", and not looking to move. It only takes burning your bridges at one or two schools in the area to be SOL in terms of local employment, so at least locally the jobs aren't a "dime a dozen".

I think (hope) that the Thai staff in the English Department at my school would go to bat for me; I think that they realize that I'm a better quality option than some fresh-off-the-plane converted tourist with no teaching experience and quite probably no degree. However, the Chinese/Thai family cartels are the ones that are the school directors out here, and teaching quality isn't a primary concern for them. They need white/handsome/young faces (probably in that order of importance) to sell to local parents, many of whom rarely see a farang and have probably never tried to talk to one. With that kind of "audience", I think if someone rocks the boat here they will be replaced with someone who would tow the line, even if the replacement is a much lower quality teacher.

I'd bet that your take on things would be good advice in Bangkok or somewhere with a large population and more schools. Macro vs. micro economics. And maybe I've got the wrong read and I should go for it even in my local situation here, but I personally think that it wouldn't end well here. I wouldn't be happy in a much larger town than where I'm at now, let alone the zoo that is Bangkok, so I'm willing to make some concessions.

However, since I do think that I'm appreciated by my Thai boss / head of English Dept., you may have convinced me that I should talk to him privately and explain why this whole incentive thing could have some repercussions with hiring/retaining foreign staff.

[chonabot]

Good luck and let us now how it goes - I may grow a pair and try the same

[Loaded]

I was told that the government is only offering this subsidy until September. IE putting your eggs in this basket may be a short-lived experience.

[culicine]

I was told that the government is only offering this subsidy until September. IE putting your eggs in this basket may be a short-lived experience.

And it's a subsidy for the employment of teachers, so that does not necessarily mean the teacher will get any of that money, unless the school has specifically said otherwise. Assuming someone doesn't pocket the money, it might be spent on other resources such as books, airconditioners, upkeep of teacher accomodation, etc. Mind you, I've been here long enough to realise that's and benefit to the teacher or the students is just hopeful thinking:)

[IssanDM]

My boss has been getting calls from schools all over Issan asking if "his" foreign teachers are available? Just today he said he my farm us out on the weekends to these schools if the teachers get a large cut of the pie. I may be busy for a couple of months as long as the cash flows, but goodbye weekends and hello to 50+ kids in hot sweaty Issan classrooms .

[culicine]

My boss has been getting calls from schools all over Issan asking if "his" foreign teachers are available? Just today he said he my farm us out on the weekends to these schools if the teachers get a large cut of the pie. I may be busy for a couple of months as long as the cash flows, but goodbye weekends and hello to 50+ kids in hot sweaty Issan classrooms .

Will you have a say in it? Just check the hourly rate....Makes me glad I'm a maths teacher:)

[thequietman]

My boss has been getting calls from schools all over Issan asking if "his" foreign teachers are available? Just today he said he my farm us out on the weekends to these schools if the teachers get a large cut of the pie. I may be busy for a couple of months as long as the cash flows, but goodbye weekends and hello to 50+ kids in hot sweaty Issan classrooms .

sorry not possible. one teacher, one school. you cant be loaned out. wife checked already. there goes your cash cow.

[Kitbaikitmah]

IMHO...this will end up like the other scam.

The Gorv sponsored Eng Camps. Schools are paid an amount per number of NETs per day. A few teachers are sent to teach on different days...but the school inists the teachers sign for everyday ie 4 teachers per day over 2 days becomes 8 teachers for 2 days.

IMHO....you will not see an extra B. No NET could be employed for 10k even part-time. NETs will be signed up (you...like your contract, visa..ok...sign..here...now), monies paid (to the school), stastics made (by MoE...NET in many many school like other ASEAN country)......everybody happy.

Next year there will be a same same but different technique with a different MoE.

You my friend will still be grinding away without a single crumb falling into your lap.

[chowny77]

Legally IssamDM wife is correct about one teacher one school, however............this is the land of T.I.T. and bendy rules. Only last year a friend of mine and his colleagues were "pimped" out to work once a week in some smaller schools in the surrounding area. This was all set-up by the uncorruptable director of his school and will most likely be carrying on during this upcoming new academic year.

[engrin]

following this thread to keep track of the percentage of teachers get raises... 0 so far

[chowny77]

My school has been informed that they are entitled to recieve the 10,000 baht for a native speaker. they have told me I will get it, now just waiting to see the money!!!

[chowny77]

Well at has been about a month since schools started and the money has not arrived yet to my school from the education office. I am sure if they were asked they would say that they had not recieved it from the MOE..............so much for incentive.............I will keep people informed if my hands are crossed with silver!

[luciferbkk]

Looks like nobody really knows what's going on. We also rushed to get all the paperwork done two days before the deadline because the school was't informed earlier than that. Admin at my school couldn't fill in the forms and needed our help although they had or should have had all the required information. At first, admin at school said we can get the subsidy for four teachers for twelve months ( two of them non-native), then it was reduced to two teachers. I was told that the school could get only subsidies for two teachers because the school didn't perform well in the last evaluation. Two weeks later, it was subsidies for four teachers again but only for six months as the budget of the MoE or local department was limited. Performance in the last evaluation wasn't an issue anymore but we are still waiting for the money. I am not sure how much money we will actually get and in which or whose coffers it will go once we get it.

IMO, the program's goal was never to pay a higher salary to farang teachers but help schools to pay the higher salaries (compared to Thai teachers) for them, thus enabling schools to hire a farang teacher or more farang teachers.

I'd be very grateful if anyone could provide accurate information about this program.

Edited June 14, 2012 by luciferbkk

[exfarmer]

Hi

I am wondering if this Forum topic can shed any light on a resent experence i have had with a large village primary school.

I was asked two weeks ago to teach English with a payment of 500 Baht per hour up from 200 per hour last year.

Thinking that the increase was reasonable i said ok.

After attending two 3 hour periods last week i hear that the hourly payment is back now to 200 Baht per hour because the Childrens Tablet programme has had payment over runs. Any extra info will help thanks in advance.

[chowny77]

The new incentive scheme was flawed from the start. It asked schools to find native speakers to teach and the school would recieve 10k per month. After the assiagned date for the paper work to be processed, there was a meeting in all local education departments. A native speaker must complete 50 hours of teaching/per month to qualifiy for the 10k. The scheme is only budgeted til Sep, but all schools who have a native speaker will be checked. If the school passes and all the information sent back to BKK looks good, maybe they will continue with this incentive scheme. If not......................

[Trembly]

The 10000 incentive scheme is shining paradigm of what a cluster-<deleted> should be.

To the OP I suggest that you quietly and ever so nicely speak to the Director or Deputy Director about a 5000 Baht raise.

[scooterboy]

The scheme is only budgeted til Sep, but all schools who have a native speaker will be checked. If the school passes and all the information sent back to BKK looks good, maybe they will continue with this incentive scheme. If not......................

Sounds interesting, the scheme possibly being continued... Is that just general hearsay, I wonder, or is there any link or reference to anything or anybody that supports this?

I ask, because nobody here - and nobody I know of elsewhere - has any idea at all at the moment as to whether the scheme will (ever) continue after September.

Thanks for any info...

[chowny77]

The scheme is only budgeted til Sep, but all schools who have a native speaker will be checked. If the school passes and all the information sent back to BKK looks good, maybe they will continue with this incentive scheme. If not......................

Sounds interesting, the scheme possibly being continued... Is that just general hearsay, I wonder, or is there any link or reference to anything or anybody that supports this?

I ask, because nobody here - and nobody I know of elsewhere - has any idea at all at the moment as to whether the scheme will (ever) continue after September.

Thanks for any info...

Basically, I had a member of the Education office where I live come to my house asking for my help to give some English classes at there office. As we chatted he was the one who told me that there will people, himself included going around the schools to do these checks. He seemed quite sure that there would be a chance that this scheme will continue on after September but then again Bangkok MOE are the ones holding all the cards.

[scooterboy]

Yes - and unfortunately (maybe), it's as you say - Bangkok could have the final say in the matter.

It would be very nice indeed, if there was a hint one way or the other about the coming school term(s) - and an indication of what the position will be for the NES guys now currently working.

Too, I know of several schools that didn't get a NES guy the last time around, mostly due to massive misinformation - and that would jump at the chance of perhaps having a NES guy next term. The problem is, that the current NES guys here are looking for other work or other schools, as their existing schools aren't able to offer them any future contract.

It would be a great pity if they secure a contract elsewhere - only for the current scheme to "suddenly" continue.

I know a couple of guys that have achieved amazing results in the short time that the scheme has been errr...functioning?....and they love to teach their kids, just as the kids love being taught by them. It would be a great shame if these schools end up losing their NES guys, just because the government bodies (yet again!) are far too slow to react and to come with a decision.

Naturally, the NES guys would prefer to continue teaching their kids, but they feel they're more obliged to try and help out where they can - and try and find other work now, rather than to wait and see if the governmental offices ever manage to get their finger out before the next school term has finished.

I rather think I'd do the same - if I was offered a contract at another school, then I think I'd accept it - and not have to speculate whether the government will do this or do that - or even when they might eventually get around to doing it.

Anyway, thanks for the info - I'll pass it along.....

[Issangeorge]

The original scheme was going to pay Native English Teachers 10,000 baht a month for 6 hours a week or 400 baht an hour. I felt this was a fair wage and signed up. They then said that we had to work 12 hours a week and get paid only 200 baht an hour. To me this was a slave wage and I said I wouldn't do it. At the same time they did this they raised the salary of all Thai Teachers with a BA to 15,000 baht an hour. Considering that most Thai teachers teach less than 15 hours a week (and many 12) this means that they are all making 230 baht an hour or more than the Native English Teacher. Think about it guys and gals if you are teaching 12 hours a week you are being used. I would rather teach 6 hours a week for free than 12 hours a week for 10,000 baht. And since I have not been paid for last month it seems that I am.

[scooterboy]

Not yet been paid for last month? Yes, it appears to be quite a "normal" thing to have to wait ages for your salary. They're not singling you out, I think - we've been told many times that the government offices (here, the Area Education Centre) are unbelievably slow when acting as admin for their government schools.

You'll quite possibly have to wait until the end of the current month (or even later) to get the salary for the previous month - i.e. salary for July will be paid out at the end of August (or even in September). As we've been informed, "it's the way the government works, but you will get your money".

As for the raise to a minimum of 15,000 baht for teachers with a BA - we don't know of any teachers in government schools that are now being paid the much publicised 15K - though I don't doubt that there are some.

[talk2sam]

You caught on quicker than I did -- I had sorta the opposite process. While I was still holding on to the paperwork I got a followup call from the school and managed to stall for time for another day (I was out of town). My Thai wife was with me when I got the call and could tell I was ...vexed... and she gave me the evil eye (you know that look of disapproval you get any time you feel like challenging the system in any way? -- that's the one) when I told her I was thinking about just holding on to the form unless they played ball and cut me in. After letting me cool down she managed to help me come to the conclusion that that wasn't going to fly.

I am happy at my school and generally think that they treat us (foreign teachers) better than most places, including the last place I worked here. So I guess I can just let it go.

However, the more I think about it the weirder it seems that we are involved in the application process at all. The form didn't ask for any information that the school didn't already have about me, and I'm sure that this will cause some confrontations between school and foreigners. In confrontation-averse Thailand, again I'd just assume that they would want to keep us out of the loop on this one.

Why wasting their time...fill out the form and return to the principal...you know how it works here..you dont have to burden us with reading about your colleague...

[Issangeorge]

The school just brought me the paperwork to get paid for last month. I had to sign a the normal papers and then fill out and sign and initial three time sheets. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday 07:30 to 16:30, of course I only worked 2 hours each day, but I guess that's how they get the 12 hours each week in. Still not paid, but it at least looks like I will be.